Am i too old?
polygon
Hey polycountonians, I have a question for anyone who has an opinion or some intimate knowledge.
I am an old man (31) and have been playing around with 3d for about two years now. i have been really enjoying learning something new and exploring the different directions one could go in this realm. i have and always will be an avid fan of video games and working in the industry would be a dream come true. recently however, i have been confronted with the reality that i may be too old to be considered for this line of work at an "entry level position" (internship, what have you). i was told this indirectly by an art director and was kinda thrown off as i had never even considered it.
a little background about me, i worked in an entirely different sector since the age of 14 and have no intention of going back to it. i am divorced and have one son who i see on holidays and summer break. i have lots of family in the area where i live "san diego" and some friends/family who are currently working in the dev biz.
iv owned a couple businesses and i know what its like to work all day and night and let other things take a back seat to my job obligations.
i dont have the funding to go thru art school and the part time job i am working will probably be ending very soon here.
im not expecting anyone to have the answer for me really but id love to hear if anyone has been thru this or has any words of wisdom for me. also, i plan to continue with 3d either way simply because i enjoy it. i know this is a crap time for game dev, well for anything. rockstar i guess just fired like 40 people and i hear little about anyone getting hired. idk, any thoughts would be appreciated. - chris
I am an old man (31) and have been playing around with 3d for about two years now. i have been really enjoying learning something new and exploring the different directions one could go in this realm. i have and always will be an avid fan of video games and working in the industry would be a dream come true. recently however, i have been confronted with the reality that i may be too old to be considered for this line of work at an "entry level position" (internship, what have you). i was told this indirectly by an art director and was kinda thrown off as i had never even considered it.
a little background about me, i worked in an entirely different sector since the age of 14 and have no intention of going back to it. i am divorced and have one son who i see on holidays and summer break. i have lots of family in the area where i live "san diego" and some friends/family who are currently working in the dev biz.
iv owned a couple businesses and i know what its like to work all day and night and let other things take a back seat to my job obligations.
i dont have the funding to go thru art school and the part time job i am working will probably be ending very soon here.
im not expecting anyone to have the answer for me really but id love to hear if anyone has been thru this or has any words of wisdom for me. also, i plan to continue with 3d either way simply because i enjoy it. i know this is a crap time for game dev, well for anything. rockstar i guess just fired like 40 people and i hear little about anyone getting hired. idk, any thoughts would be appreciated. - chris
Replies
J/K, No way are you too old! Yeah, its always better to start as young as possible, but I got into 3d art when I was 24 or 25 and that's on the older side I would say. Simply put, if you have talent, age doesn't mean anything. It's litterally just a number, and I believe if you are indeed very talented as an artist, being older will only help you.
IMO the game industry has been slowly recovering from the economic down fall, and I think that things have been getting better actually. It could just be my own personal experiences, but that's how I feel anyways.
Do you have a portoflio or work you can show? That would be a good start.
Legally speaking, employers can't ask your age in relation to the interview process. But, most young people tend to have more energy and enthusiasm during the interview process which can put them over. Though, most us older guys are bitter jaded vets, so on your first interview you could be giddy as a school girl, who knows.
I'm 33 and got in as an artist at 29. For 4 years before that I was working tech support and learning 3D. Before that I made wake and snowboards. There are a lot of 30+ people in the industry and I really don't see too much of an ageist slant put on hiring, but maybe that's just where I'm at?
It is a crappy time to be looking for work in the industry but its starting to bounce back.
I don't think you need any formal schooling to do most of the jobs in this industry but it can be a good way to learn if you have trouble learning on your own.
Personally I would hire someone that was self taught and had a great attitude and portfolio over someone who crapped out a few rigid school assignments and followed someones close instructions, to the letter.
The only thing I see as being a factor with age, is how jaded the person is. With the industry being as rough as it is on people its easy for years worked to = damaged goods. So I would make sure the skills and attitude shine through and I bet you'll land something.
It can also become an issue because age can = higher expected wages, but it doesn't sound like that will be an issue, you seem to be living pretty light.
Im 31, spent more than 10 years working in the photography/retouching industry where my last full-time position was as the art director for a big photo company.
I refuse to believe that I'm too old to break in. If you've got the skills they need and the determination to work hard and succeed it shouldnt matter how old you are. (Nevermind the fact that discriminating against you for your age is illegal). If you're the right guy for the job, that is all that should matter.
Yes, this industry often finds itself with a lot of layoffs after the end of a big project, especially lately in this economy. Every game published is a bit of a risk and most studios dont have the cash to weather big flops while still maintaining a large staff. You need to be prepared for a bit of instability, but if its what you want, I say go for it. Live beneath your means once employed, stay ahead of the curve in terms of skills and production techniques and I'd say you should be ok.
Really, it's not about age. Even though he was older and never even finished highschool, he persevered, kept going (unlike many other kids) and wasn't satisfied with anything but the best. I think in his case specifically, it really stood out how he focuses so much on quality and was almost never satisfied quickly with his work.
First to address your main concern, are you too old? No, not if you're competent with computers, able to evolve as an artist and able to get a decent portfolio together, the average age of game developers is up there, it's not like movies and commercials that portray game devs as a bunch of teens.
The way i see it if you were applying for an entry level position, an internship type deal, they would likely give it to a young kid to help them out, but neck and neck against someone with a similar portfolio for a real position they might actually give you the edge since you're a bit more mature and stable, but that's just my take on it. Like Vig said if you're enthused you could be the best of both worlds, stable and energized.
Also of note, be ready to move out of san diego. There are a few companies down here, but generally they don't hire often. Though as we speak High Moon has a couple positions listed on their site. SOE is also a major player down here, lets hope their upcoming titles do well enough that they consider hiring again (they too just recently let go a decent % of their workforce).
Here's a video you should watch involving the game industry that was posted not long ago, helps shed light on what the industry is like for many:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1012343/The-Belly-of-the-Whale
Main point is that the industry isn't always sunshine and rainbows, the idea that the only hurdle is "breaking in" is a common mistake by new artists, but if you're like most around here, the passion for getting into this industry and making games wont be dissuaded by pretty much anything.
Good luck building the folio and on the hunt!
and then a while back gave another bloke who was ... actually i've no idea how old he is, but he was way older than you when he joined ... his first game artist job and he's going great guns. Still alive and everything.
age is meaningless. Get it done.
I don't expect to be confident enough to start applying for gigs until I'm 30 or so. It doesn't put me off, though - the things I've learned in other industries and life situations have served me well, and I'd say they're most definitely an advantage over someone younger.
Vig raises a good point for those of us a little older; I think the passion and enthusiasm really has to be evident in your work and your personality, as does flexibility and a willingness to learn and adapt - one potential negative aspect of being older than some candidates is that it's easier to be (or appear to be) set in our ways.
I say go for it - if you're passionate, determined and resourceful, you'll make it eventually. I think so many people find it intimidating and give up is because they underestimate either the amount of knowledge / skills required to be good, or the amount of time and work involved - the resolve to see something through and not give up will separate you from a lot of wanna-be's and hobbyists.
Search the forums and the wiki, read the stickies, do your research into what aspect of game development you want to be involved in and start posting work here - and don't give up!
Now get your moldy ass in gear and crank out some art!
I'm 25 and feel the same way, and while I'm yet to get my first industry job, I've spent the last year or so developing my skills and still have a fair old way to go. I'm afraid I can't offer you a lot of advice but one thing I have learned the hard way is do not rush any of your work.
Having the 'am I too old, is it too late' mentality in the back of my mind gave me the stupid idea that I needed a portfolio asap, and I just filled it up with a load of half-assed stuff that coulda been 10 times better had I taken some time on it. I'm learning now to take time, and put 100% into every single thing you do, and you'll get so much more out of it.
I gotta say I have a lot of respect for anyone who puts in the time and effort to really develop their skills regardless of what area they work in and it's honestly great to see that you're obviously very keen!
Best of luck with it all!
Age means nothing in the creative industry. If your portfolio is good you'll get work. I dont think age comes into it when you are an artist. I doubt i'll ever retire. I might slow down a bit in old age. But i'll always be creating something. I expect at 65 i'll be freelance and hopefully i'll be well off enough and good enough by then to pick and choose work that comes in....Thats the plan anyway. But who knows what the future might bring.
Some of the more successful students are people who are more mature and serious about this and can focus. I've had more than my fair share of 18 year old students who think this is easy and don't take the industry challenge level seriously. I try to pressure my students to see just how hard the competition is out there, but it isn't about age as much as it is about skill.
you guys are awesome.
Although, it's definitely a 'young man's' game. To find jobs, you'll hop around the country per project. Lots of people find jobs for years and years at a time but many do not and will move to where the job takes them, if you are married or have children, then it will be harder for you to find a job since you will be trying to stay local to where ever you drop roots.
I'm 37 going on 38, still at a junior level (I guess) and can't get a reply back from most studios in the Dallas area. One being not enough high poly stuff in my portfolio and second being I'm tied to only the Dallas are because of family. I'm currently inbetween 2d contracts and have been looking for jobs but many of those veteran 3d modelers out there can go months between contracts and it makes it even rougher.
Yes it can be done, just make sure you know what you want to do and how to get there.
Suffice to say after reading this, I feel incredibly stupid. Thanks PC, again, for showing me the way
I'd say the only reason the company could be concerned about your age is when they expect you to work sick hours. And when you're in your 30s it's kinda hard to take you as a nerd with no life.
Otherwise it's kinda strange. As long as you're good at what you do, your age shouldn't be a problem.
Hoping to see your art around here soon!
Cheers)
In non artist terms, we have people who are MUCH MUCH older than that working here who also have 0 previous experience in video game development, but a lot of cross over skills and experience from other industries that are applicable.
If you really start cracking now, in less than one year you should have a decent portfolio and be able to join a decent studio. It's all about dedication, not age!
good luck!
so tno try bigpoint berlin / radon labs, they just got bought and now are on a new production so it might be good time for an internship, but basicly you should know some maya...
one small problem is that i live in Rhineland-Palatinate and now the ultimative problem;
I can only affort the trial version at the moment X-/.
I tried some month ago to learn 3ds max in the 30 days they give..[result was that i know now how to import cameras lights objects animations and render it..
and modelling some crappy objects in max^^]
of course not!
Also know that Autodesk has student versions available for 6-13 months.
Ahh and thanks for the GDC conference.....
yeah seriously i'm too old for Starcraft 2 or even 1 in multiplayer, my heart just can't handle the pressure :poly122:
Neox? Like this? You aaaaare german after all.
[ame]
Age isn't an issue. But this quote is what I'd be most concerned about in your position. The game industry, and software development in general can be very demanding time-wise. Some companies will institute death marches when in crunch mode. We're talking long hours, weeks on end with no weekends. Not all companies are too bad about this, but some are.
I was 27 when I got a job in 3d, after working in another field. I was married, but had no kids. Occasional long hours were acceptable. Now I'm 37 and have 2 kids and have many more responsibilities outside of work. Death marches are not acceptable. Even the occasional last minute "We need this done tonight" request can be challenging for me now. I work at a good, well-run company (which seems somewhat rare in the games industry), yet this stuff (occasional long hours) still happens.
If you're really interested in 3d, then by all means go for it. But you may want to be warry when picking where to work. I would be sure to ask them in the interview how often and long they go into crunch mode, and what an average day was like. For those of us with a lot of responsibilities outside of work, and average 11 hour day with frequent 16 hour days with no weekend crunches simply isn't acceptable. It wouldn't be fair to you or the company if you took a job where this was the norm.
i started doing graphics with 13, andnow, 10 years later i dont do graphics at work
Game developers are getting younger, not older.
Most game developers have less than six years of experience.
13% of game developers have ten years or more experience.
Before you switch careers, you should consider how much it will cost and if you will ever see a return on investment.
It's because of the burnout rate, 50% of the people who enter the game industry drop out after 5 years. I don't know the stats for time past that but I found it funny how EA treats your 5 year anniversary the same way other industries treat your 20th.
http://journeyguy.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/dilbert2006040261702.jpg
I am 29, and want to make a career change. Game art has always been my burning desire.
So, lets start together, what you say.