i loved the bit in the pitch for kinect about having to remember those tricky remote control buttons.....I was like, yeah Damn play buttons are confusing, what I need is a £200 way to shout at my T.V.
This.
I'll have to wait and actually see this myself, but it just seems like something that would be super buggy, or have difficulty with languages, background noise or even other people talking. But ok, let's say by some amazing technology it works flawlessly, it still takes longer to say "Xbox, Do something!" than press one fucking button. If you're a player who has difficulties remembering these buttons, as they put it, go churn butter or something.
What if identical twins try to log into their accounts by waving, what happens THEN, WELL? TOTAL CHAOS ENSUES!
I can't imagine that entertaining me for more than an hour or so...maybe for 5 year olds, but I wouldn't buy a XBox+Kinect for a 5 year old...if I want to stroke an animal, I have three cats at home...and they even have force feedback...this is more like the creature from Black&White...equally enjoyable with a controller...and I bet at some point we'll get some singing sailors...
I'll have to wait and actually see this myself, but it just seems like something that would be super buggy, or have difficulty with languages, background noise or even other people talking.
If you've ever used microsoft synch those are the biggest problems.
I use it on almost a daily basis when driving, sometimes its flawless, then other times you can get into an argument for about 5 minutes with the dammn thing. Basically you have to talk like a robot for it to understand you.
So something like "shuffle off" has to be pronounced more like "shflllll ufffff"
I thought so too, when I first saw that video. I recreated that exact setup for a project here at work: glasses with IR LEDs, Wiimote on a stand, running the same software. Unfortunately, it doesn't look as cool in real life as it does on the video for some reason.
Interestingly enough, the guy that original put that together, is now working on Kinect, I heard.
There was a video floating around not long about how you can't really invest large ammounts of money for creative capital. You need to pay game developers and other creative types enough money that they're comfortable, but beyond that money does little to motivate them, the only thing that motivates people with the capacity to revolutionize an industry like the game industry is to let them have more control and work on what they want to work on.
Here's the wall Microsoft has run into and to an extent sony (though sony's move i find more legit as a gamer, golf could be AWESOME). This venture is based entirely on expanding into the casual realm and the only way to do so is with groundbreaking creative titles to make money on a scale the likes of which can only be dreamed of. In their minds, the casual market is everyone but gamers, essentially they could take over the world if this thing sold.
So why isn't everything coming together, why isn't the hardware working? Why are all the games so stale and bland despite massive investment? Because everyone working on these titles, though getting paid, could give a sh*t if it sells. There's no creative spark to propel the casual market to great titles outside of typical corporate greed.
I for one am sound as a pound watching sony and microsoft shoot themselves in the foot. Lets see more games on the PC, some new peripherals made by gamers for gamers. Anyone else frustrated that we're still using a keyboard that was designed over a century ago to SLOW people from typing too fast so the mechanics of the machine wouldn't jam? The epitome of modern interfacing with gaming is an intentionally inhibited typing machine. And controllers are a joke, there's a reason why auto aim exists...
Yeah exactly they dont give a damm if the game is great or not because theyre only a very
small wheel in that big company.
Mount and blade for example does everything different, its a very small team and they where
all motivated. In a time of cinematic gameplay leading you trough a game they simply
added no story at all to the singleplayer and let you decide what you want to do.
I loved it and made my own epic story.
I think thats what happens to every large industry. I read about the pharmaceuticals, how at the beginning they were creating tons of new, drugs now its less than a trickle.
Because the big companys got bigger bought up all the little ones that had their moments of creativity. They destry the creativity in the companys they buy, because they dont allow the people any freedom.
You can tell as well, when you see all these new technologys, most of them(the innovative stuff) come from individuals or schools, not the big companys. Then the companys buy them up and drive them into the ground, the cycle goes on.
These companies are like giant leeches, they dont add anything to the world, they suck up things only just sustaining their existence, and making everything arounhd them smell a bit worse.
If Microsoft is targeting the CASUAL gamer with their new technology, then how come they put all their efforts at E3 into showcasing Kinect? Last I checked, the so-called 'casual gamer' probably doesn't even KNOW what E3 is.
This is soo freakin amazing...I hope it doesnt change the entire game development side of things because if it does, than either we'll have to read a menual or be out of jobs..:(
If Microsoft is targeting the CASUAL gamer with their new technology, then how come they put all their efforts at E3 into showcasing Kinect? Last I checked, the so-called 'casual gamer' probably doesn't even KNOW what E3 is.
I think their plan is to alienate all their existing fans as much as possible. It's like the guy who tells his boss to go fuck himself, only to find out that cool new job he was sure he would get "didn't work out"
The roll-out is so dumb it's like an Onion article-- "Forza realistically simulates driving by removing gas and break, forcing you to stand"
Kinect is exciting to me for everything that isn't game related. I'm not playing a game with it. No. Really really stupid. Unless its a boxing game but then I'd probably fuck up my movements and then I'd get pissed and break it....
Oh wait. Anyway, I like it's interface potential. Granted, it's nothing you can't really do on a PC but it's all in what MS bid is: control the living room as a one stop shop of entertainment. Kinect does that by...tada! Turning your Xbox to a PC. I have heard conflicting reports about needing to stand though.
Though if you take ATI Eyefinity, Microsoft Kinect...no wait that's not quite a holodeck. DAMN!!!
If Microsoft is targeting the CASUAL gamer with their new technology, then how come they put all their efforts at E3 into showcasing Kinect? Last I checked, the so-called 'casual gamer' probably doesn't even KNOW what E3 is.
Reporters do, and I see quite alot of the casual evening gossip tabloids reporting on what happesn at e3, usually in a casual friendly way "NEW NINTENDO CONSOLE 3d!" and "A DANCING GAME WHERE YOU DANCE IN REAL LIFE!" etc.
Kinect can be used while sitting down - most games just aren't designed for that use, though. The system itself is capable of that though. So you can imagine it's use in racing games, FPS shooters (anyone who's played ARMA will know) or a plethora of other genres.
Vig - developers don't have the final hardware of the device, which changed a good deal from the dev hardware. Because of that, they didn't want their stage demos to have issues. But the floor demo kiosks were not fake (obviously).
Also, just because a game is not designed around Kinect, doesn't mean it's being "tacked on" as a gimmick feature. Forza 3 was developed with the 360 gamepad first in mind. Does that mean the 360 steering wheel was a tacked on gimmick? No, of course not. It was an entirely new controller and entirely new experience, which was given just as much thought, dev time and tweaking as any other feature of the game.
Vig - developers don't have the final hardware of the device, which changed a good deal from the dev hardware. Because of that, they didn't want their stage demos to have issues. But the floor demo kiosks were not fake (obviously).
I get what you're saying, it just looks really bad when they are caught faking it. It breads distrust and lowers my perception that they will be able to deliver a fun, entertaining, industry changing experience. Getting it to work at E3 should be the test of all tests, if it works there it will work anywhere. If its not ready to show off, don't erode what little support the device has garnered by faking it...
Also, just because a game is not designed around Kinect, doesn't mean it's being "tacked on" as a gimmick feature. Forza 3 was developed with the 360 gamepad first in mind. Does that mean the 360 steering wheel was a tacked on gimmick? No, of course not. It was an entirely new controller and entirely new experience, which was given just as much thought, dev time and tweaking as any other feature of the game.
If it takes as much effort as to get the plug-in-play racing wheel working as it does Kinetix, then awesome, everyone should have no trouble doing it.
But you have to keep in mind that not everyone has easily transferable control schemes like driving games. I have a sinking feeling that reading mo-cap is a lot different than mapping Joystick X axis to Wheel Y axis, especially for FPS. A lot of people throw their controller because they slipped, what are they going to do when it screws up?
How is it going to handle games like Prince of Persia or Mirrors Edge?
Is the collectors edition going to come with a wall I can run on, and a pole I can swing from?
Marching in place isn't the same as walking, which is going to get old pretty quick even if people have no problem doing the super light physical activity.
If I could get a good running start, and depending on my physical ability to jump across a gap it would be rewarding. But it will be stamp my feet and hop, not really the "get in the game" experience they are trying to sell.
Do I need to now learn some complex dance choreography to be able to play the next fighting game?
How is the time it takes to dance out a fighting move faster than button mashing? Won't this slow down the game or be hard to interpret?
Isn't someone going to throw a real upper cut?
How well is it going to handle RTS games or hack and slash like diablo?
How accurately is it going to allow me to select units and move them?
It seems that too much is left up to the devs of their more popular genres?
Delaying the hardware seems like kind of a foot shooting maneuver?
As a dev do you risk making a ground breaking game that changes the way controls are handled and hope everyone buys the hardware to buy your game? Or do you play it safe, and stick with standard controls and cobble on support?
It's risky being the first, mostly because the chances of success are pretty low if you're the first. Instead of dog park jungle edition they should of blazed some trails for the devs and given them some blue prints and frame work to build off of. But instead... its more like "we're going to hype the crap out of this things and leave you guys to figure it out, on and you have 2-3mo. GO!
Again this show me, how little faith they have in the longevity of the device...
So of the two kitten petters that MS currently has that aren't on the pay roll which one is going to buy up all the excess hardware? Or maybe they expect people who are over the Wii-craze to buy a xbox/kinetix combo for $300-450, Plus games?
I have an xbox, a kitten loving wife and a daughter and I can't see getting it. We could easily get 3-4 games for the price it costs and get much more enjoyment out of those...
It's not supposed to handle every kind of game, dude, are you being obstinate on purpose? How does the DDR dance pad handle gears of war, or a racing wheel handle street fighter? It doesn't replace the gamepad, it just lets you do amazing shit like this on some games:
Not really...
If I sell jogging shoes to guys then I launch a new line of purses targeting hello kitty female tweens should I expect the guys who buy jogging shoes to carry the new line? I should probably try to grow some new customers who are interested in my new line. What if I'm copying a fad they have already grown tired of? What if the prices they are used to playing for such things are about half of what I'm asking? What if I demand that they buy some male jogging shoes before they can get their new purse?
What I'm saying is that they've grown a business around a certain type of gamer, playing certain types of games and now they launch something totally not aimed at their target audience.
Who is going to carry this new gadget to success its not their target audience?
What is their plan to capture this new audience they don't have and has grown fatigued with this type of gimmick?
What use is this thing to their target audience if it doesn't play the games they buy?
Vig your so right about this.
Its just the rock bottom of uncreative developers.
Hmmm we cant come up with anything innovative, why dont we let the people
jump around infront of their tv to the same stuff!
Hmm wont they think its lame?
WHAT! Look at that cute kitten! I can pet it all day long!
Bottom line is it's just not going to work as well as advertised. NO hardware that makes big promises comes out and just works. The power glove was shit, the wii-mote was shit, six-axis was shit, that eye card reader peripheral was shit, and this will be shit too.
If it's successful enough we'll see a worthy version in stores in 3 years. MAYBE. In the meantime I'll play with my keyboard, mouse, and pad and wait for the E3 when new tech like this will be used to do a live demo of an actual game and not kiddy shit.
This is a great idea, and such motion tracking will most likely becomes standard equipment in the world along with augmented reality, but as of now it's just a stab in the dark gimmick to make some money. It probably will too.
Replies
This.
I'll have to wait and actually see this myself, but it just seems like something that would be super buggy, or have difficulty with languages, background noise or even other people talking. But ok, let's say by some amazing technology it works flawlessly, it still takes longer to say "Xbox, Do something!" than press one fucking button. If you're a player who has difficulties remembering these buttons, as they put it, go churn butter or something.
What if identical twins try to log into their accounts by waving, what happens THEN, WELL? TOTAL CHAOS ENSUES!
http://www.cracked.com/article_18608_the-day-gaming-industry-died-impressions-from-e3-2010.html
On another note.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18609_more-proof-video-game-industry-out-ideas-e3-2010.html
If you've ever used microsoft synch those are the biggest problems.
I use it on almost a daily basis when driving, sometimes its flawless, then other times you can get into an argument for about 5 minutes with the dammn thing. Basically you have to talk like a robot for it to understand you.
So something like "shuffle off" has to be pronounced more like "shflllll ufffff"
I thought so too, when I first saw that video. I recreated that exact setup for a project here at work: glasses with IR LEDs, Wiimote on a stand, running the same software. Unfortunately, it doesn't look as cool in real life as it does on the video for some reason.
Interestingly enough, the guy that original put that together, is now working on Kinect, I heard.
Disco, fucking eotech's! I blame earthquake's workshop
Here's the wall Microsoft has run into and to an extent sony (though sony's move i find more legit as a gamer, golf could be AWESOME). This venture is based entirely on expanding into the casual realm and the only way to do so is with groundbreaking creative titles to make money on a scale the likes of which can only be dreamed of. In their minds, the casual market is everyone but gamers, essentially they could take over the world if this thing sold.
So why isn't everything coming together, why isn't the hardware working? Why are all the games so stale and bland despite massive investment? Because everyone working on these titles, though getting paid, could give a sh*t if it sells. There's no creative spark to propel the casual market to great titles outside of typical corporate greed.
I for one am sound as a pound watching sony and microsoft shoot themselves in the foot. Lets see more games on the PC, some new peripherals made by gamers for gamers. Anyone else frustrated that we're still using a keyboard that was designed over a century ago to SLOW people from typing too fast so the mechanics of the machine wouldn't jam? The epitome of modern interfacing with gaming is an intentionally inhibited typing machine. And controllers are a joke, there's a reason why auto aim exists...
small wheel in that big company.
Mount and blade for example does everything different, its a very small team and they where
all motivated. In a time of cinematic gameplay leading you trough a game they simply
added no story at all to the singleplayer and let you decide what you want to do.
I loved it and made my own epic story.
Because the big companys got bigger bought up all the little ones that had their moments of creativity. They destry the creativity in the companys they buy, because they dont allow the people any freedom.
You can tell as well, when you see all these new technologys, most of them(the innovative stuff) come from individuals or schools, not the big companys. Then the companys buy them up and drive them into the ground, the cycle goes on.
These companies are like giant leeches, they dont add anything to the world, they suck up things only just sustaining their existence, and making everything arounhd them smell a bit worse.
If Microsoft is targeting the CASUAL gamer with their new technology, then how come they put all their efforts at E3 into showcasing Kinect? Last I checked, the so-called 'casual gamer' probably doesn't even KNOW what E3 is.
I think their plan is to alienate all their existing fans as much as possible. It's like the guy who tells his boss to go fuck himself, only to find out that cool new job he was sure he would get "didn't work out"
The roll-out is so dumb it's like an Onion article-- "Forza realistically simulates driving by removing gas and break, forcing you to stand"
Okay, I give up, I will buy the dance games...
Oh wait. Anyway, I like it's interface potential. Granted, it's nothing you can't really do on a PC but it's all in what MS bid is: control the living room as a one stop shop of entertainment. Kinect does that by...tada! Turning your Xbox to a PC. I have heard conflicting reports about needing to stand though.
Though if you take ATI Eyefinity, Microsoft Kinect...no wait that's not quite a holodeck. DAMN!!!
Reporters do, and I see quite alot of the casual evening gossip tabloids reporting on what happesn at e3, usually in a casual friendly way "NEW NINTENDO CONSOLE 3d!" and "A DANCING GAME WHERE YOU DANCE IN REAL LIFE!" etc.
So it does get casual coverage.
Vig - developers don't have the final hardware of the device, which changed a good deal from the dev hardware. Because of that, they didn't want their stage demos to have issues. But the floor demo kiosks were not fake (obviously).
Also, just because a game is not designed around Kinect, doesn't mean it's being "tacked on" as a gimmick feature. Forza 3 was developed with the 360 gamepad first in mind. Does that mean the 360 steering wheel was a tacked on gimmick? No, of course not. It was an entirely new controller and entirely new experience, which was given just as much thought, dev time and tweaking as any other feature of the game.
oh my. no thanks..
I get what you're saying, it just looks really bad when they are caught faking it. It breads distrust and lowers my perception that they will be able to deliver a fun, entertaining, industry changing experience. Getting it to work at E3 should be the test of all tests, if it works there it will work anywhere. If its not ready to show off, don't erode what little support the device has garnered by faking it...
If it takes as much effort as to get the plug-in-play racing wheel working as it does Kinetix, then awesome, everyone should have no trouble doing it.
But you have to keep in mind that not everyone has easily transferable control schemes like driving games. I have a sinking feeling that reading mo-cap is a lot different than mapping Joystick X axis to Wheel Y axis, especially for FPS. A lot of people throw their controller because they slipped, what are they going to do when it screws up?
How is it going to handle games like Prince of Persia or Mirrors Edge?
Is the collectors edition going to come with a wall I can run on, and a pole I can swing from?
Marching in place isn't the same as walking, which is going to get old pretty quick even if people have no problem doing the super light physical activity.
If I could get a good running start, and depending on my physical ability to jump across a gap it would be rewarding. But it will be stamp my feet and hop, not really the "get in the game" experience they are trying to sell.
Do I need to now learn some complex dance choreography to be able to play the next fighting game?
How is the time it takes to dance out a fighting move faster than button mashing? Won't this slow down the game or be hard to interpret?
Isn't someone going to throw a real upper cut?
How well is it going to handle RTS games or hack and slash like diablo?
How accurately is it going to allow me to select units and move them?
It seems that too much is left up to the devs of their more popular genres?
Delaying the hardware seems like kind of a foot shooting maneuver?
As a dev do you risk making a ground breaking game that changes the way controls are handled and hope everyone buys the hardware to buy your game? Or do you play it safe, and stick with standard controls and cobble on support?
It's risky being the first, mostly because the chances of success are pretty low if you're the first. Instead of dog park jungle edition they should of blazed some trails for the devs and given them some blue prints and frame work to build off of. But instead... its more like "we're going to hype the crap out of this things and leave you guys to figure it out, on and you have 2-3mo. GO!
Again this show me, how little faith they have in the longevity of the device...
So of the two kitten petters that MS currently has that aren't on the pay roll which one is going to buy up all the excess hardware? Or maybe they expect people who are over the Wii-craze to buy a xbox/kinetix combo for $300-450, Plus games?
I have an xbox, a kitten loving wife and a daughter and I can't see getting it. We could easily get 3-4 games for the price it costs and get much more enjoyment out of those...
[ame]
If I sell jogging shoes to guys then I launch a new line of purses targeting hello kitty female tweens should I expect the guys who buy jogging shoes to carry the new line? I should probably try to grow some new customers who are interested in my new line. What if I'm copying a fad they have already grown tired of? What if the prices they are used to playing for such things are about half of what I'm asking? What if I demand that they buy some male jogging shoes before they can get their new purse?
What I'm saying is that they've grown a business around a certain type of gamer, playing certain types of games and now they launch something totally not aimed at their target audience.
Who is going to carry this new gadget to success its not their target audience?
What is their plan to capture this new audience they don't have and has grown fatigued with this type of gimmick?
What use is this thing to their target audience if it doesn't play the games they buy?
Its just the rock bottom of uncreative developers.
Hmmm we cant come up with anything innovative, why dont we let the people
jump around infront of their tv to the same stuff!
Hmm wont they think its lame?
WHAT! Look at that cute kitten! I can pet it all day long!
If it's successful enough we'll see a worthy version in stores in 3 years. MAYBE. In the meantime I'll play with my keyboard, mouse, and pad and wait for the E3 when new tech like this will be used to do a live demo of an actual game and not kiddy shit.
This is a great idea, and such motion tracking will most likely becomes standard equipment in the world along with augmented reality, but as of now it's just a stab in the dark gimmick to make some money. It probably will too.