Building my 3D Rig...

CJE · Apr 2010

Hey guys,

So I'm finally in a good enough financially that I can afford to put together a true Rig for modeling, and I'd like to get some input on what to put in this thing.

I'm going to be building it myself, and I'll just be building the tower (don't need a Monitor,etc...)

I'm looking to stay under $1500 for total cost.

So here's what I'm thinking so far based on some basic research.

CPU
Intel Core i7-930

Motherboard

EVGA E758-A1 3-Way SLI

Video Card

E-VGA GeForce GTX 275

Memory

CORSAIR DOMINATOR 12GB

Power Supply

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro RSA00-AMBAJ3

Case

COOLER MASTER Storm Sniper SGC-6000

Hard Drive

Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS 2TB

Now with this list I'm about $500 over budget, so I'd like to find some areas I can cut down the price or salvage from my current PC.

My Current PC has some decent parts like a E-VGA 8800 GT 512mb Video Card. I'm not sure how much a better video card would affect 3D Modeling performance in Max and Zbrush.

If I kept this same card, I could cut out almost $400 bucks from the total cost.

Xoliul · Apr 2010

You don't need s1366, an i7 860 on s1156 is fine too.
You don't need 12gb memory, 6 or 8 will do just fine.
You don't need 1000w PSU, 600 will be more than adequate.
If you wanna save, get a GTX260 instead or even keep your 8800. It's still a good card if you just do 3D modeling with it.
Might be safer to go for two or more seperate physical hard drives, if that 2Tb thing ever breaks, everything on it is gone. I'm always wary to put all my stuff on a single physical HD...

oh and I'm a big advocate of this, but try and get an Intel X25 80GB SSD as bootdisk. It'll make more difference in day to day use than buying 1000$ worth of premium parts.

Mark Dygert · Apr 2010

Personally I would file that rig under "my dick isn't big enough, classic over powered, gamer bragging rights, look at my pretty case lights, rig."

6 gigs of ram to start, you can probably get more later at cheaper prices.

Hopefully you're not buying the Mo-Bo for the 3way SLI, if you are its a total waste, buy a cheaper board and stick with a single card.

Probably drop the 2TB hd and go with a smaller cheaper SSD and then buy more storage later when you need it. Probably not a good idea to put all your data in one basket either.

Swap out the case for something cheaper but just as good, maybe this?
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137

Probably drop the video card down a peg get great performance without getting dicked, maybe this?
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130514

Artifice · Apr 2010

What they said. That CPU is too new to get a decent bang for your buck ratio, stay away from SLI, split up your HDs to SSD boot and storage. That Coolermaster case that Vig linked is great, I've built several systems with them and had zero problems.

Also: this (shame on you, Vig! I was waiting for it..

)

Mark Dygert · Apr 2010

Hahaha I almost did but I figured ya know... the kids today with their crazy hair and strange language...

CJE · Apr 2010

Thanks for the suggestions guys, here is an updated setup with some of your suggestions...

CJE · Apr 2010

OOps the mobo should actually be this one ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188049

Artifice · Apr 2010

Much more sensible setup. Were it me, I'd drop the CPU down a step or two, get a cheaper mobo to match and drop more money into RAM. The benefits of going from 6 to 9-12gb verses .25Ghz doesn't really make sense to me. The LGA1366 CPUs are still new enough to command a crazy price point. In 6 months they'll be ~$150 cheaper, and in a year or two when you're ready to upgrade, they'll be pennies on the dollar (meaning you can pick up what is a $6-700 dollar CPU right now for ~$150). I'd actually get a mid LGA1156 setup and pick up the top of the line CPU for the socket when it gets cheap. I'm guessing you wouldn't notice the difference in day to day use. That's just me though. You hit your budget and you've got a great setup listed.

This actually brings up an interesting philosophy regarding upgrading. You either spend more up front and get the top of the line system, but have to wait longer to upgrade again because of the boutique price. It's harder to go from the sweet system to a mid line system because you're basically paying regular price for a mediocre upgrade, locking you into the high end upgrade path. The other end is you get into the mentality of having a budget system, always paying less, piecemealing together parts more often, but always being in the middle of the tech curve. I'm firmly in camp 2, but it seems to be a pretty even split amongst people around here.

Lamont · Apr 2010

I'd get at least two 1TB drives and a swappable drive bay for one. Unless you're doing huge single frame renders with tons of geometry, 6GB of ram is enough for most applications, ZB stops at 4GB I think.

A note for the small SSD OS drive:

You can remap your profile to another drive, it's best that you do that. Makes backing up cake, and 80 gigs is small. I have almost 40 gigs in application installs/OS and my profile is 39 gigs.

CJE · Apr 2010

Lamont wrote: »

A note for the small SSD OS drive:

You can remap your profile to another drive, it's best that you do that. Makes backing up cake, and 80 gigs is small. I have almost 40 gigs in application installs/OS and my profile is 39 gigs.

What do you mean remap the profile? I've never used a SSD Drive for the OS before....

Isn't it just a seperate drive soley for the OS?

PolyHertz · Apr 2010

Replace that 5400rpm hdd for this 7200rpm one thats the same price/size/manufacturer:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136534

Thunder · Apr 2010

i'm building a similar rig myself. One thing i did to make sure it functions more efficiently is to have 3 HDDs. 2 500g raided for stability. Anything 1tb or over can have write errors. They say they have fixed them but Ive had bad experiences there. If youre sticking to 2tb then raid 2 1tbs.

The main thing I did was buy a 64gb SSD just for my OS. It seem(or be) be an unnecessary addition but it ensures that windows itself will never lag. Combine it with your i7 and the 6-12gigs of ram and you shouldn't be hungering for more power for a good while.

Lamont · Apr 2010

CJE wrote: »

What do you mean remap the profile? I've never used a SSD Drive for the OS before....

Isn't it just a seperate drive soley for the OS?

I was thinking the reason for the SSD is OS/Apps only. So a part of your OS install is all users information (My Desktop, My Documents, My Music, My Porn/Videos, application settings etc.). You can tell windows to put that on another drive, saving you space.

CJE · Apr 2010

My Current system has a Q6600 Intel Quad Core, how much performance increase would there be going from that to a i5 or i7?

I'm wondering if it's more sensible to upgrade rather than build a totally new system

I currently have

Lamont · Apr 2010

That's still a good system... if you feel like breathing in life, upgrade the HDD, videocard and ram.

Artifice · Apr 2010

CJE wrote: »

My Current system has a Q6600 Intel Quad Core, how much performance increase would there be going from that to a i5 or i7?

I'm wondering if it's more sensible to upgrade rather than build a totally new system

Your setup isn't a bad one, especially compared to some people on here looking at new machines. You could breathe a bit of life and zippyness into it with 4gigs of ram, a newer gfx card and the SSD/SATA drives, for a fraction of the cost. All of that but the ram would carry over into a new build when you decided to do it. It's really a question of whether you want to spend the money and how much performance you really need. I'm guessing the processor alone wouldn't make that big a difference in day to day tasks, especially compared to the speed you'd get out of the other stuff.

I'd just upgrade, wait until your CPU/mobo are really outdated and replace that and the ram. Get the case now or later. If you've got ~5-600W PSU you're probably good, otherwise throw that in now.

EDIT: Lamont ftw. Damn these slow fingers...

PolyHertz · Apr 2010

That's actually a nice system, little better then mine even. If you feel restricted by it just upgrade the gpu and maybe ram. At least wait till the 6 core cpus are available in non-extreme editions sense an i7 quad is not going to be a signifacant leap over your current quad.

CJE · Apr 2010

So I'm thinking I may just upgrade then with a SSD Hardrive, a 1TB Internal Hard Drive, and Maybe go to 6 GB of Ram.

My Mobo only supports DDR2 ram, and I'd have to replace it all to go to 6GB, since I'm using all 4 slots right now.

Is it worth getting a new mobo with DDR3 Support (which is cheaper than DDR2).

Also, I'm pretty sure my memory should be running faster than 399mhz, anyone know why that might be?

The Main reason I wanna upgrade, is that I find Max and Zbrush run pretty slow sometimes (especially Max 2010!) , and it makes my workflow really annoying sometimes.

PolyHertz · Apr 2010

For zbrush you can increase performance dramatically by doing any of these 4 things: Up the memory in preferences to 4096, turn off shadows in render menu, turn off double sided faces, and use the a smaller canvas size.

Lamont · Apr 2010

CJE wrote: »

So I'm thinking I may just upgrade then with a SSD Hardrive, a 1TB Internal Hard Drive, and Maybe go to 6 GB of Ram.

Get 4 sticks of 2GB. As I am sure it's dual channel mobo.

Artifice · Apr 2010

CJE wrote: »

So I'm thinking I may just upgrade then with a SSD Hardrive, a 1TB Internal Hard Drive, and Maybe go to 6 GB of Ram.

My Mobo only supports DDR2 ram, and I'd have to replace it all to go to 6GB, since I'm using all 4 slots right now.

That sounds sensible, though I'd go with 8gigs for the dual channel support.

Is it worth getting a new mobo with DDR3 Support (which is cheaper than DDR2).

I'd say no, unless you go with a new CPU as well, which puts you back in the new system category vs upgrade. Usually people will get the best CPU/mobo/ram they can and reuse the rest. You're looking at doing the opposite.

Also, I'm pretty sure my memory should be running faster than 399mhz, anyone know why that might be?

The slowest ram for the DDR2 standard is 400mHz, which is what yours is running at. Depending on the age of your computer, it may be that the ram is actually supposed to be running at that speed, or it could be that something is set wrong in the bios. RAM speed is dictated by the front side bus, so you might just need to up it. It'd be worth poking around in there to see, and opening your case and checking the sticks. There should be something printed on them that tells what they're rated at. Also, check the specs for the mobo and see what the highest rated ram it will take is.

If the ram is 400 and the mobo will take faster, just buy the fastest it can handle. If the mobo only takes up to 400, I'd just bite the bullet and go for the whole shebang...new everything. Or, you could pick up a new 775 mobo like this one for about $50. At that point, the only thing you're saving is the CPU, but it'd be cheaper than an upper tier CPU/mobo/RAM setup. Your call on that one.

The Main reason I wanna upgrade, is that I find Max and Zbrush run pretty slow sometimes (especially Max 2010!) , and it makes my workflow really annoying sometimes.

I'd guess your slow ram plays a part in this, as well as sluggish drives and the gfx card. I'm currently using a Q6600 with 8gigs of ram (1066mHz) and an SSD and a newer ATI card, and I don't have much in the way of slowdowns. I don't think it's your processor. More likely a combination of the other stuff. It's hard to tell without knowing about the mobo.

CJE · Apr 2010

So I'm going to buy 2 sets of http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212

to go to 8 GB DDR2800MHz Ram.

I'm curious about the SSD tho.

I currently have a pretty slow internal hDD and a 750GB External fro backing up.

I'd defenitly like to get a new internal drive with more space, something like a 1TB, but you guys are saying SSD's in addition is worth it?

So the intel X25 SSD 80GB is what xoiulul recommended, and that retails for $300 bucks.

Is the performance increase worth that much money for only 80gb of space? Or should I just save the money and get a bigger 7200RPM SATA HDD?

CJE · Apr 2010

Artifice wrote: »

That sounds sensible, though I'd go with 8gigs for the dual channel support.

I'd say no, unless you go with a new CPU as well, which puts you back in the new system category vs upgrade. Usually people will get the best CPU/mobo/ram they can and reuse the rest. You're looking at doing the opposite.

The slowest ram for the DDR2 standard is 400mHz, which is what yours is running at. Depending on the age of your computer, it may be that the ram is actually supposed to be running at that speed, or it could be that something is set wrong in the bios. RAM speed is dictated by the front side bus, so you might just need to up it. It'd be worth poking around in there to see, and opening your case and checking the sticks. There should be something printed on them that tells what they're rated at. Also, check the specs for the mobo and see what the highest rated ram it will take is.

If the ram is 400 and the mobo will take faster, just buy the fastest it can handle. If the mobo only takes up to 400, I'd just bite the bullet and go for the whole shebang...new everything. Or, you could pick up a new 775 mobo like this one for about $50. At that point, the only thing you're saving is the CPU, but it'd be cheaper than an upper tier CPU/mobo/RAM setup. Your call on that one.

I'd guess your slow ram plays a part in this, as well as sluggish drives and the gfx card. I'm currently using a Q6600 with 8gigs of ram (1066mHz) and an SSD and a newer ATI card, and I don't have much in the way of slowdowns. I don't think it's your processor. More likely a combination of the other stuff. It's hard to tell without knowing about the mobo.

I have a EVGA nForce 650i ULTRA

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/motherboard/evgai650/

Artifice · Apr 2010

The SSD difference is night and day. You'll slap yourself for not doing it sooner. As for sizes and costs, it depends on what you plan on loading on it. Mine is 30gig, but I keep it really light, with only the core programs I use on it (max/zbrush/photoshop/udk). Everything else goes on the 7200 SATA drive, including games and misc programs. You can get a 30g for around $100 or so. It really depends on how much you see yourself putting on it. I'd love to have 80gigs to play with, but I can't justify the cost.

EDIT: Sounds like you're good with the RAM. You should be set.

CJE · Apr 2010

Artifice wrote: »

The SSD difference is night and day. You'll slap yourself for not doing it sooner. As for sizes and costs, it depends on what you plan on loading on it. Mine is 30gig, but I keep it really light, with only the core programs I use on it (max/zbrush/photoshop/udk). Everything else goes on the 7200 SATA drive, including games and misc programs. You can get a 30g for around $100 or so. It really depends on how much you see yourself putting on it. I'd love to have 80gigs to play with, but I can't justify the cost.

EDIT: Sounds like you're good with the RAM. You should be set.

So basically this allows your core programs to stay fast and windows to run smoothly?

Artifice · Apr 2010

Yep, that's it. It removes the speed bottleneck in the storage dept. Give how fast current CPUs and RAM are, everything gets slow when the program has to access a drive. The SSD brings drive speed more inline with memory speed, so there's no bottleneck. Everything starts up faster and runs smoother...no more HDD chugging while you stare at the screen.

CJE · Apr 2010

Artifice wrote: »

Yep, that's it. It removes the speed bottleneck in the storage dept. Give how fast current CPUs and RAM are, everything gets slow when the program has to access a drive. The SSD brings drive speed more inline with memory speed, so there's no bottleneck. Everything starts up faster and runs smoother...no more HDD chugging while you stare at the screen.

So how much space would I need in a SSD for Windows 7 64, and the core programs like Max/Zbrush/Photoshop, etc...

30gb doesn't seem like much

ED

Artifice · Apr 2010

Again, it really depends on what you want to put on there. 6-7 gigs for W7, couple more for Max, maybe a gig for ZBrush and Photoshop, couple gigs for swap file. If you were really tight, you could probably get everything you needed in about 15gigs. The trick is what Lamont said: install all the extras on another disk, stuff like Max help files, and delete all the extra crap you don't need. Putting all the 'My Docs' type stuff elsewhere definitely saves you room. If you want all your extra programs plus some games or whatever, you'd need to go bigger.

Honestly, with the budget you quoted and the money you're going to save, go with a 60 or 80gig drive. It assures you won't run out of room, you don't have to watch things that closely, and there's room to grow. You'd be looking at around $2-300 for that size, and it'll be good for a long while.

00Zero · Apr 2010

i would go for 60 or 80 as well. i just got an 80 and only installed windows 7, drivers, browsers, but no other heavy programs and its like 1/3 full.

Xoliul · Apr 2010

Go 80, man. I put all my apps on it and it's 60Gb full already. That's a few Max versions, Photoshop, Premiere, UT3, UDK. 40-30gb will become too small very fast. Those are only good for netbooks or something.

Also: only get Intel. When i got mine, the rest was barely catching up or plain shit compared to Intel. The price premium is worth it: Photoshop, for example, went to a 2-second startup. Full system reboot is about 20 seconds.

CJE · Apr 2010

So I'm thinking about getting the SSD and 8 GB of DDR2 800 (from 4gb DDR2 400)

How much performance increase do you think I would see for my work flow? Meaning using Max, Zbrush, Photoshop, App launching, windows booting, loading files etc...

I would have my OS and main apps on the SSD and everything else on my existing 280gb 7200 RPM Raptor Drive.

this would run me just shy of $400 CDN. Worthwhile upgrade for the money? Or would the difference be minimal?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139133

VPrime · Apr 2010

I have pretty much your exact computer right now. I have had the computer for about 3 years and it is almost time to be replaced (going by my usual track record).
But really, I feel that it still holds up fine. It can play most current games on high (or at least medium) and does fine with modelling (not that I really push that aspect very far

)
What I plan on doing to keep it up to date a bit is just overclock the cpu to around 3ghz (the q6600 is pretty decent for Overclocking). Also plan to bump the ram up to 8gb or so.

Xoliul · Apr 2010

CJE wrote: »

So I'm thinking about getting the SSD and 8 GB of DDR2 800 (from 4gb DDR2 400)

How much performance increase do you think I would see for my work flow? Meaning using Max, Zbrush, Photoshop, App launching, windows booting, loading files etc...

I would have my OS and main apps on the SSD and everything else on my existing 280gb 7200 RPM Raptor Drive.

this would run me just shy of $400 CDN. Worthwhile upgrade for the money? Or would the difference be minimal?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139133

If you couple that upgrade with a full windows reinstall (i advise to get Windows 7 64bit, it has support for TRIM, which basically will grant you better long term performance with your SSD), it should definitely be worth that money.

Mark Dygert · Apr 2010

CJE wrote: »

So I'm thinking about getting the SSD and 8 GB of DDR2 800 (from 4gb DDR2 400)

How much performance increase do you think I would see for my work flow? Meaning using Max, Zbrush, Photoshop, App launching, windows booting, loading files etc...

I would have my OS and main apps on the SSD and everything else on my existing 280gb 7200 RPM Raptor Drive.

this would run me just shy of $400 CDN. Worthwhile upgrade for the money? Or would the difference be minimal?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139133

Yep, thats a smart upgrade.

CJE · Apr 2010

Xoliul wrote: »

If you couple that upgrade with a full windows reinstall (i advise to get Windows 7 64bit, it has support for TRIM, which basically will grant you better long term performance with your SSD), it should definitely be worth that money.

Yah im using W7 64, and I would do a fresh install of it.

arrangemonk · Apr 2010

does noone of you have issues with nvidia cards and 3d on win7x64?
i recomend an ati 5xxx (cheaper and more power)
and they work well with amd processors which are also cheaper and have about the same power like intel

CJE · Apr 2010

So I'm split here. I've decided to just do an upgrade, and I have set aside $400 for upgrades.

I'm already going to buy 8GB of Crucial Ballisitix Ram PC26400 800Mhz, an upgrade from 4GB of OCZ 400mhz DDR2.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212

Now I'm split to whether I should spend the rest on a upgraded video card, or a SSD Harddrive.

Which would gain me the most performance using zbrush and max?

System:
Intel Q6600
XFX 8800 GT Ultra 512 MB
8GB DDR26400 800mhz
eVGA 650i Ultra Motherboard
Windows 7 64bit on a 7200 RPM Seagate 240GB Hard Drive.

oXYnary · Apr 2010

Good choice on the memory. It has a low CAs latency. I assume your buying two sets to get the 8 gigs?

fwiw: The issue with SSD is you still if you want the most life out of the SSD want things that are written to often to be on another HD. So turn off windows swapping. Put PS swapping on another drive.

Save all documents to another drive.

Per tzbrush or Max. A newer card would help with Max with showing newer shaders. If you have a more recent Max. Thats about it. Wont really benefit with Zbrush. Other than startup, both wouldnt really benefit from the SSD.

Suggestion instead? Max the CPU out as much as you can. Get the highest grade CPU available. Or one that can overclock the highest and a heatsink that will allow.

CJE · Apr 2010

oXYnary wrote: »

Good choice on the memory. It has a low CAs latency. I assume your buying two sets to get the 8 gigs?

fwiw: The issue with SSD is you still if you want the most life out of the SSD want things that are written to often to be on another HD. So turn off windows swapping. Put PS swapping on another drive.

Save all documents to another drive.

Per tzbrush or Max. A newer card would help with Max with showing newer shaders. If you have a more recent Max. Thats about it. Wont really benefit with Zbrush. Other than startup, both wouldnt really benefit from the SSD.

Suggestion instead? Max the CPU out as much as you can. Get the highest grade CPU available. Or one that can overclock the highest and a heatsink that will allow.

Yah I can't really afford a new CPU atm, I'd rather wait for the Six Core's to come out or the i7's to drop in price.

So I have $200 to spend on a worthwile upgrade still.

vik · Apr 2010

Give it to charity or mail it to me in pennies. Alternatively get a 40Gb Intel SSD. Put your 3d/2d apps and windows on it and your working files as well (large PS files for example), all the rest can go on the hdd. In other words use the hdd as an archive disk and only put the programs/files you use most often on the ssd.

CJE · Apr 2010

vik wrote: »

Give it to charity or mail it to me in pennies. Alternatively get a 40Gb Intel SSD. Put your 3d/2d apps and windows on it and your working files as well (large PS files for example), all the rest can go on the hdd. In other words use the hdd as an archive disk and only put the programs/files you use most often on the ssd.

Will the SSD be a better buy than a upgrade to the 8800GT specfically as it relates to workflow?

Artifice · Apr 2010

The SSD is only going to help in matters relating to accessing the HD. Things like opening programs, saving, opening large files, and any time things get swapped from RAM to the HD. It's nice and a time saver, but it's not going to speed up your workflow all that much. On the other hand a new gfx card might get you slightly more responsive viewports in max during high poly action, and almost no advantage in ZBrush as far as I know (Mudbox is a different story). Neither is going to move you into *omfgblazingfast* land. The RAM is going to make a sizable difference however.

It's a bit of a damned if you do situation. SSDs probably aren't going to get any better in the next year or so, but they'll get larger and/or cheaper. So you could get the gfx card and hold out for more storage or a better dollar/storage situation. On the other hand, DX11 cards are hot off the press with a crazy price point, so it might be worth waiting awhile to pick one up when the prices drop and get an SSD now.

CJE · Apr 2010

I ended up getting the SSD and the Ram. If anything it will be nice to have quicker app launches and opening/saving of files.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139132

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212

Artifice · Apr 2010

Solid upgrade says I.

Let us know how it works out.

oXYnary · Apr 2010

Saving large files would be a benefit. so still would help with Zbrush. Even if saved on another drive, that drive wouldnt be having the OS as well, so it would still be faster even in that respect. Plus whom here has had to restart a program that goes funky? Instead of waiting that 30 seconds for it to start again, your in almost immediately.

Go for the SSD. Wait on the GC.

CJE · May 2010

So I got the SSD and the 8GB mem installed and all I can say is... it was worth every penny.

I almost never get slow downs anymore, app launches are super fast.

Max 2011 launches in about 10 seconds flat, compared to about 2 full minutes on my old PC.

Everything works a lot better, less hang up in Max, overall a lot easier to work with.

Max still has an issue working with high poly objs over 400,000k or so, it's very slow in the viewport with navigating, but that may be unavoiable.

Building my 3D Rig...

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