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"The Only Thing I Know..." Let's talk about being a gamer, life balance, and the biz.

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  • System
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    System admin
    Wait, what?

    @SupRore
    "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am not an avid gamer. But I enjoy watching others play games, and spend a healthy amount of time thumbing through gaming publications and browsing websites. It's good to keep an eye on what the competition is doing on a purely surface level. A more intimate knowledge of these projects' inner workings and/or first-hand gaming experience can only improve on-the-job competency, as well as strengthen bonds between coworkers."

    I think that enjoying games is a fairly essential part to working in the biz... Sure, you may not play them but I think that you should at least like them and not be ignorant to them - If i was in a position of power and had to choose between someone whos better technically than someone who was good and was passionate about games, id choose the latter.
    [/FONT]
  • Mark Dygert
    http://kotaku.com/5473771/pandaren-monk-generates-11-million-worth-of-wishes
    Yea what a waste. Just imagine what people could do if they weren't buying stupid virtual pets they could be out helping sick kids get better, or something way more worth while...

    Video games never did nothing for nobody.
  • FAT_CAP
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    FAT_CAP polycounter lvl 18
    Nothing pertinent to add to the thread which hasn't already been said but it was a nice surprise to see a quote from the Beast on Polycount @Kevin Johnstone :)
    I thought the video was a load of bollocks in all honesty.

    'Do what thout wilt shall be the whole of the law, love is the law , love under will' - Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law.

    ...especially since I have literally just moved to the town where he was born...spooky!
  • Firecracker197
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    Firecracker197 polycounter lvl 11
    Yes all good things are in moderation, but unfortunately moderation does not make game developers lots and lots of money. If more people made games that had an ending, and didn't take advantage of the human social weakness that some people have that allows them to become addicted to video games then I feel we wouldn't have as much of a problem. But you hear more and more developers focusing on ways to keep you playing their game longer and longer, whether its expansion packs, new maps, or just an infinitely long story, they want you to be hooked.

    You can try as hard as you can to limit your gaming and some people have the will to do that, but some people don't, and it doesn't help that on the flip side there are companies out there looking to take advantage of that.

    There are certain things that companies do to keep you from being reminded how much money your paying for an MMO, they want you to set it up to auto deduct, they never send you a bill and you never have to think about that money thats just disappearing every month from your bank account. Not to mention that missions and quests are set up to need several hours to complete. When you play online, theres no pause button, your stuck there for hours or risk upsetting the people you NEED in order to play the game.

    Games are wonderful, I love games, and everyone deserves a way to entertain themselves, but if we as developers are afraid of whats happening to this generation because of games, I think we have some responsibility over that, and we have the power to change it. I wish that would matter more to people more than the dollars a game brings in, but unfortunately thats not the way it is. Thats not the way it is with a lot of things. Often times you see companies just as consumed with greed as you do players addicted to games. Thats the unfortunate part.
  • Ferg
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    Ferg polycounter lvl 17
    Point being that there is no normal or right life.

    while this is true to an extent, I think it can generally be said that the life path that usually ends in regrets and doesn't foster personal growth is the less preferable one. I spent most of my early 20's playing video games and I wish I hadn't. I know many other people who have similar stories. I had great times playing those games, but I guarantee you my friends who spent those years sailing around south america or backpacking through india regret those years a lot less and grew a hell of a lot more than I did.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    Jackwhat wrote: »
    Sure, you may not play them but I think that you should at least like them and not be ignorant to them

    Well, i agree, obviously. Knowledge about the industry you work in is vital. But saying anyone who doesnt play a lot of games cant be a good game artist is silly, is all.
  • ironbearxl
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    ironbearxl polycounter lvl 18
    JordanW wrote: »
    Disagree, you don't need to be hardcore about games but it doesn't hurt to know what other people are doing and there's more to see than what people post on message boards.

    I like to watch game reviews of newer games and laugh along to some bombcast while I work, but I don't have the energy/patience to play them in my spare time.

    It's different when visiting family/friends though, i'll play some wii/ps3 etc with them and it's a good time.

    I bought some games during the steam holiday sale, but after awhile I found I was forcing myself to play them.
  • die_Kröte
    I stopped about 2 minutes in. The bottom line for me, is that anyone who gets into video games (or D&D or Sports or anything else) that much has priority and emotional issues. They're substituting what they aren't getting in real life with fantasy because the fantasy seems like a better option. You name it, their parents argued too much, didn't pay enough attention to them... or something more complicated. They simply could have an addictive personality and don't know how to control and manage it. Dr. Drew, if you've heard of him, says there is actually a gene that makes you have a propensity for addiction and if you have it, you can easily get hooked to anything.
  • System
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    System admin
    True dat, SupRore <3 - I guess each side has its benefit (no gaming gameartists and vice versa)
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    ironbearxl wrote: »
    I like to watch game reviews of newer games and laugh along to some bombcast while I work, but I don't have the energy/patience to play them in my spare time.

    It's different when visiting family/friends though, i'll play some wii/ps3 etc with them and it's a good time.

    I bought some games during the steam holiday sale, but after awhile I found I was forcing myself to play them.


    you got to go back way further man, get dosbox installed :)

    An artist can equally so still be a video game artist without ever laying the pen unto a paper, but he could still benefit from it.

    While I've worked with a ton of artists who barely ever touched games of any kind, it would've still helped a bit when you can easily reference to a specific technique or visual thing in some kind of game.

    art helps you with artistry, games help you with game development.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    As a friend of mine once said , 'if I need fresh air I will open a window'
    This was after I had asked him if it was healthy to stay in every night smoking weed and watching tv.
  • ironbearxl
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    ironbearxl polycounter lvl 18
    eld wrote: »
    you got to go back way further man, get dosbox installed :)

    An artist can equally so still be a video game artist without ever laying the pen unto a paper, but he could still benefit from it.

    While I've worked with a ton of artists who barely ever touched games of any kind, it would've still helped a bit when you can easily reference to a specific technique or visual thing in some kind of game.

    art helps you with artistry, games help you with game development.

    Don't get me wrong, I've grown up on videogames since getting a Nes for Xmas in '86, i'm 30 now, and I've played a million games from nes, genesis, tg16, neogeo, snes, n64, ps1 and 2, dreamcast and pc games etc. and witnessed the unfortunate decline of the US arcade scene. :(

    I think there is quite a difference between the art of gameplay vs artwork for a game. You don't need to know how to play "Gin Rummy" in order to design the card deck.
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Ferg wrote: »
    I guarantee you my friends who spent those years sailing around south america or backpacking through india regret those years a lot less and grew a hell of a lot more than I did.

    But again, it's what works for you. I don't personally have any desire to sail around the world or backpack through some foreign lands. Although I'd like to see other countries in my life, I don't and would not regret having never seen them at all before I pass.

    Personalities, tastes, wishes and dreams all vary per person. Just because someone chooses to spend most of their time playing games instead of base jumping off angel falls doesn't mean they're enjoying their life any less.
  • moof
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    moof polycounter lvl 7
    Some of our most famous artists were/are drug addicts, and crazy people who do crazy things.

    The culture at large tends to frown upon drugs and weird lifestyles, but consume those sort of lifestyles in mass from afar.

    These pillars where we stand and point at other life styles are say they're all wrong and wasting their time... that's pointless.

    If you're happy you're happy, if you're not, you're not. Personal responsibility is to listen to your inner self and change your life where you feel it needs changes.

    This guy just hit the point in his life where he realized he needed change, but instead of looking at himself in the mirror, he blames the things he used to love that now he sees as the culprit.

    No one but yourself makes who you are. Other things can influence, but what you let into yourself, and how you act on that is what you are.
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    Ironbearxl, you have all the right reasons, your very own, and its working, and I'm pretty sure you'll do the research whenever it is needed for your role.

    It also shows you know games, even though you choose not to play them, valuable knowledge from your early days that you probably wouldn't wish away even if you want to spend your time in the way you choose.

    Other people do depress me in the way they go "I wish I could've spent that time in some better way" What if they did?, maybe life would've ended up quite differently.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    he should have sold his level 80 characters on ebay
  • Ferg
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    Ferg polycounter lvl 17
    Vassago wrote: »
    But again, it's what works for you. I don't personally have any desire to sail around the world or backpack through some foreign lands. Although I'd like to see other countries in my life, I don't and would not regret having never seen them at all before I pass.

    Personalities, tastes, wishes and dreams all vary per person. Just because someone chooses to spend most of their time playing games instead of base jumping off angel falls doesn't mean they're enjoying their life any less.

    bookmark this thread so you can revisit it during your midlife crisis heh
  • Microneezia
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    Microneezia polycounter lvl 10
    Lots to read, im interested in this subject because I think I have all the answers.

    Person A drives from LA to NYC 3 times and all the other great stuff he missed out on.

    Person B plays WoW.

    both are dead. Who is better off? neither, they are both dead. If you want to leave a legacy or improve mankind ect ect that is just ego, reality is, they are both dead.

    So, all you can do is enjoy right now, right today - because whether you climb that mountain and collect all that shit or reach enlightenment or become an amazing artist or not - you will very very soon be fucking dust. So what you achieve is kind of useless bullshit. The only goal is to be happy now*. So Just make sure you are doing what makes you happy right now. And if people want to inhibit that they are wrong, so you should divorce them or whatever.

    *the only one rule is that your happiness does not and cannot inhibit someone elses happiness or mess with their individual right for happiness.

    In terms of the video - I think if he enjoyed himself while playing games, and didnt beat his wife or something because of it (ie the rule above)... hes moving backwards now even though he thinks hes going forward. Brooding about being divorced means more failure than the divorce itself - being alone doesnt mean failure - not driving to LA does not mean failure - being unhappy is. So find what makes you happy now, whatever it is all. Wishing and regreting past isnt headed in that direction so he was more correct before with his games, than now.

    damn i wanted this to be shorter.
  • achmedthesnake
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    achmedthesnake polycounter lvl 17
    seeming this video has attracted so much polycount community attention, i thought i might contribute a tiny bit...

    first things first (unrelated to the gaming aspects) - i'm no dr.phil, but as far as relationships go, i would deduce that when he met his wife/partner, dated, lived together and got MARRIED - he was still obsessivley playing wow/mmo's? I hate to be a bastard but how did that happen? What female member of the species let's it get that far in a relationship without seeing the signs (maybe they married prematurely without really getting to know eachother?).

    meh maybe he had a big...joystick
  • Canadian Ink
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    Canadian Ink polycounter lvl 12
    Playing games and making games are absolutely connected for me. I get alot of inspiration and enjoyment from games and if i wasn't a gamer I would have just stayed in the design industry and kept applying my 3D skills towards those ends. I dont play mmos any more so its a lot easier for me to find a nice balance of get home from work....play games for a couple hours then spend a couple of hours with my wife. Its not always easy, but I have never had to consider cutting out gaming completely and i think if I was forced to I might have to revaluate if I was really using my art skills where I was happiest.
  • glynnsmith
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    glynnsmith polycounter lvl 17
    If his wife left him, he should have a hell of a lot of spare time for sitting around in his underpants, talking to elves and goblins in his favourite videogame, amirite?

    I love how he's blaming games for wasting a part of his life - I resent the video (and the guy in it) because of this - All he needed was to take stock of himself, work up a little bit of willpower and stop subscribing to WoW. He didn't need to blow it up out of all proportion to cover up the fact he's kind of lame, upload a shocktastic video to the internet (wtf was with that background music? :\) and whine a bunch.

    If videogames take over your life, put down the joypad and do something else.
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 12
    I thought the video was a load of bollocks in all honesty.

    I think the guy that made it has more problems ahead of him frankly because he's blaming something external for his internal issues and this is a delaying tactic( or spiritual and philosophical thumb sucking) in the progress we ought to make toward realizing what our true identity and will is.

    'Do what thout wilt shall be the whole of the law, love is the law , love under will' - Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law.

    Point being that there is no normal or right life. Theres what works for you and theres what doesn't and the hell with anyone that wants to make a judgement on the validity of what your decide becuase their judgements will only shake you ought of the 'happy place' because once you get around to questioning and wondering what everyone else thinks of you, well you are lost!

    This is especially true for artists.

    Once you 'get' that you are free to do as you wish ( as long as you are not stamping on others wishes while doing it ) and that this is right and proper and the real point of life, you can cut yourself off from all that societal noise that is only there to distract and fleece you!

    Here here to that brother!!! Amen!!
  • rasmus
    What a total idiot. Suddenly the last 5 minutes of my life feels very wasted.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    **Salute KevinJohnstone**

    There's obviously a lot to be said about what games have done for the maturation and artistic development for many of us.

    I'd been told most of my life that I was poisoning my brain with how many games I played. A couple of my non-gamer friends were truly concerned with how much I played Street Fighter, Diablo 2, and Starcraft.

    Truth is I absolutely I loved games so much, I decided to make a living out of it.


    10 years later I am posting on a message board to a thousands of dedicated gamers who have found a way to make a living out of doing what they love.


    To me that's not a waste of time. That's actually pretty damn cool. Doing something you love is not a waste of time, neither are any of the steps that got you there (for myself and countless others, it WAS playing all those games).


    My take on the emo dude who made that video was, he's not someone who was ever going to accomplish anything of significance anyways. Now that he's had a mid-life epiphany, he's decided to make a slanderous video about how he can't moderate his life.


    I bet he slaved over the making of that video non-stop 12 hours a day after he got home from work. Relentlessly slaving away tireless nights and weekends on it, just to get it done, forgoing sleep, and approaching it with the same amount of time and effort he put into his video games.


    From a broader perspective, video games likely did improve his life. It helped him channel his obsessive compulsiveness into something creative.
  • xvampire
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    xvampire polycounter lvl 14
    i addicted to internet chat, gossip, facebook and forum
    much more than game ....

    this is the proof : 1.29 am
    havent sleep yet


    about the topic :

    hardcore gamer =/= great artist
    uu
    i think both can be positive, or bad when you overly obsessed ...
  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    Jonas Ronnegard polycount sponsor
    Kinda came to the same conclusion around the time wow came out, and once i didn't find a reason or meaning to increase my highscore in games anymore, I kinda stopped playing, and haven't really been playing since then. I need friends and beer to enjoy a game now days :P Doesn't stop me from loving making art though and my life is all better ;).

    But truely, enjoyed time isn't wasted time, but once you don't see a meaning playing games anymore, It's very easy to blame games for lost time, I'ts easy to be aftersmart.
  • Tumerboy
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    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 16
    So, I feel like I'm definitely one of the people who used to be on here constantly, post a ton, but only stops by occassionally anymore. I don't attribute that to video games, work, or any of that. But rather that the boards have gotten so fucking popular, that if I'm not checking up hourly, by time I get back here, there are 40,000 new posts, and probably only a couple I'm truly interested in, so I don't bother trying to wade through it all. A good for instance is this thread, which was only started yesterday, and is already 4 pages long. I read the OP and a few choice posts, but I'm not going to bother reading the rest.

    As for the games themselves, it's all in moderation. There are definitely people (I know many) who get so utterly consumed by something like WoW or EQ that I don't see them for a long time. The part I like about games these days are the social aspects. Playing Left 4 Dead with a group of friends once a night is very entertaining, and gives me some social interaction where I might not have it otherwise. As long as you're not losing sleep or prioritizing your raid over real life activities, I don't see the problem.
  • Mark Dygert
    Yea Nick I think you just summed up the entire thread nicely without reading any of it, heh.
  • Disco Stu
    Increase your game! Id know things id rather do then wank while watching them.
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 17
    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I gained weight and lost my wife because I obsessed about a fantasy world.


    You know who else cries like this? People who have a drug problem and lose weight and there homes and crap due to it.


    Like any junkie' when you abuse something it ruins you. And blaming games is no different then blaming crack or alcohol. Stop putting a excuse to why you ruined yourself.


    In the end you spent all your "real world time" and your "real world dollars" for "fantasy world time and fantasy world dollars". Trying to justify it gets my blood boiling in all the wrong ways.
    No one put a gun to this idiots head and FORCED him to play world of warcraft (which im assuming is what he was bitching about) or any another fantasy game to the point of ruining your life.

    Way to go dummy. Go drink a slim fast and look for a new lady.
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
  • Disco Stu
  • dejawolf
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    dejawolf polycounter lvl 18
    600626555_s.jpg

    WoW? seriously? that game sucked mangy horseballs on a stick. i was on lvl 50, and was so bored out of my mind i'd rather watch paint dry. so i quit and played some mount and blade instead, and had tons of fun.

    but a friend of mine kept saying, "noo, you gotta keep playing it, it gets awesome when you play to max level, thats when the game really starts. so i do. up to level 64, when i'm finally so insanely bored, and people are such huge assholes, i leave it, and never play it again.

    saying that you won't learn anything from WoW is a lie though. i learned that mixing copper and tin makes bronze. thats not half bad.

    i'd rather play games where i can learn something about the real world. like simulators, or the total war series. mount and blade got me interested in vikings, and the history of my country.
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