Polycount Pro/Am
polycounter lvl 14
Hey PC,
So this idea came to me during the Darksiders Contest. Been stewing with it for a bit. Has Polycount ever held, or already talked about holding some kind of Pro/Am collaboration Contest? If anyone is unclear on the concept of a Pro/Am tournament in sport, it's basically when professional athletes get paired with amateurs and play a game, golf,basketball, ext. I thought that this could be an excellent contest idea, obviously more so for amateurs/aspiring artists/students. However it could be an excellent opportunity for some hardcore community building and career relationship kickstarting.
This thread is just to discuss the idea. There are some obvious problems that have already come up for me that would need to be resolved first.
- Picking teams
Always an issue, with anything.. ever. I'm not sure how this should be handled. Be it through individuals picking on their own. People throwing in their names and random draws.(meh) or Pros picking their amateur partner based on the amateurs portfolio? I dunno, that's what the disccusion is for. Obviously no one wants to pair with someone that will hold them back or someone that they might not get along with. A solution with the least amount of butt-hurt for all involved is needed.
- Disciplines
I think this contest could lend itself well to both character artists and environment artists. Character teams could build a duo that fit with each other(Mario and Luigi, Ken and Ryu). Environments would work just like other team environment contests with two people working on a single environment piece.
- Whats Considered Pro?
To me it's anyone who's paid to do stuff that they'd be doing in the contest. I guess this could be up for debate for some people. The point of this contest is for some newbies to learn some things, and for the pros to get a nice piece for their portfolio and get some practice teaching people. Some say teaching somebody a skill is the best way to master that skill.(Others say those who cant "do" teach, but whatever.. f that.)
So yeah, your thoughts, for or against, concerns, questions.
So this idea came to me during the Darksiders Contest. Been stewing with it for a bit. Has Polycount ever held, or already talked about holding some kind of Pro/Am collaboration Contest? If anyone is unclear on the concept of a Pro/Am tournament in sport, it's basically when professional athletes get paired with amateurs and play a game, golf,basketball, ext. I thought that this could be an excellent contest idea, obviously more so for amateurs/aspiring artists/students. However it could be an excellent opportunity for some hardcore community building and career relationship kickstarting.
This thread is just to discuss the idea. There are some obvious problems that have already come up for me that would need to be resolved first.
- Picking teams
Always an issue, with anything.. ever. I'm not sure how this should be handled. Be it through individuals picking on their own. People throwing in their names and random draws.(meh) or Pros picking their amateur partner based on the amateurs portfolio? I dunno, that's what the disccusion is for. Obviously no one wants to pair with someone that will hold them back or someone that they might not get along with. A solution with the least amount of butt-hurt for all involved is needed.
- Disciplines
I think this contest could lend itself well to both character artists and environment artists. Character teams could build a duo that fit with each other(Mario and Luigi, Ken and Ryu). Environments would work just like other team environment contests with two people working on a single environment piece.
- Whats Considered Pro?
To me it's anyone who's paid to do stuff that they'd be doing in the contest. I guess this could be up for debate for some people. The point of this contest is for some newbies to learn some things, and for the pros to get a nice piece for their portfolio and get some practice teaching people. Some say teaching somebody a skill is the best way to master that skill.(Others say those who cant "do" teach, but whatever.. f that.)
So yeah, your thoughts, for or against, concerns, questions.
Replies
hahahahah i laughed loud here xD
Polycount doesn't have a great track record for collaborative style competitions or projects. Anything involving teams where people have to rely on someone else generally fails. It's a shame because with all the talent here polycount could quite easily release a AAA game title (with a bit of code help) if everyone chipped in. As it is though most polycounters are here to work on their own thing and hang out, which is cool. I'm one of those guys.
Only comps that work here are ones in which artists can work alone. Sad but true...imo.
QFT, sadly. and indeed would be a godawesome idea to dev a game made only by polycount peeps.
Were you there in the player SDK skinning glory days?
Getting two people together to work on a project with a specific deadline is much harder than the sdks, which were basically a bunch of individual projects sharing a basemesh that was also developed without a due date at a specific time.
This sort of Pro-Am thing relies on both parties having free time for the duration, the desire and chemistry to work together and provide and act on feedback, ability on both parts to both make art and provide actionable feedback, and continuing motivation.
On another note,i think this game idea of yours is awesome.its a great way to make some new friends and it would be interesting to see the outcome of it all.
In fact have ANY of the civil war threads made it to the end?
and people should be smart enough to honestly say if they are skilled.
I would say,if you can make assets at a quality close to that in say cod:world at war,then i would consider that pro enough.But thats just my opinion d:
Count me in, I'm an amateur and am willing to collaborate with Anyone, Pro or not. Whatever happens, I'm sure it's gonna be interesting!
What I'm wondering is how the collaboration would actually work. I mean on environments there's plenty of work to that can be relatively easily divvied up, but how do you share a character? How do you avoid the more experienced artist dominating? If they're paired with someone with less developed skills, they're naturally going to want to at least touch up everything so it looks suitably pretty beside their own work.
There's a kernel of a really good idea here, I think, but it needs some further development.
Jackablade: Yeah I think environments are easy to understand. What I pitched earlier or character artists would be that each member would work on a single character that would be part of a duo that would go hand in hand with the others, art-style/themes/universe.
The core idea for the contest, for me any ways, would be very much in the same vain as the Polycount College or any type of mentoring program, but on the short term, and with a bit more incentive to get it done. Prizes like Jackablade said would def help for motivation on the pro side. Albeit simple prizes hopefully(don't want to incur the last DW fiascos.)
As far as PC's prior forays into collaboration art, I totally agree, most attempts have not worked out well. I think in most/some of those cases the collaboration were between 3 or more people, which I find quickly falls apart over the intertubes. I think something like this could be a bit more stable because of the strict 2 man teams.
People are bringing up the pro/am definition, as well as team picking, which to me would be the hardest and most sensitive part to figure out. To me a pro would be anyone who has a had a job in the industry at some point. Your an amateur if your a student or someone still working up their portfolio to break in.
As far as picking teams, my idea would be "amateurs" post their name in a list on a thread with a link to their portfolio. Pros can then contact anyone on the list and propose a collaboration. My biggest concern is I don't want wasted opportunities for learning. If a pro commits to doing the contest and helping somebody I would hate for the amateur they were paired with at random to bail out, while somebody who was really willing to put the time in is stuck with a pro who maybe didn't have the time they thought they would. Ultimately we want both parties involved to be committed.
Im glad there's at least some positive feedback.
Also I don't see the point of the PRO/AM distinction either. Unlike sport events, Polycount does not enforce rules regarding who can play with who. I suppose that for newcomers, someone being "PRO" could seem like a big deal, but so far on PC this never actually mattered and I don't think it should.
Just my 2c !
if people are patient AND willing. most importantly...
for example, lets say i wanna work in a scene based off resident evil. i create a topic "[experience program] resident evil scene", where i would explain what the scene i want to make is, and all the these and those, and would leave it there for people who are from the industry to accept it. when im happy, i say "alright, already picked someone, will keep the thread updated with our progress" or something similar.
it would be useful both for a) folio purposes; b) experience working in a team; c) working with someone who's already in the industry; d) networking in a deeper way. whaddya guys say?
I'd imagine an easier setup would be to have people put themselves down on a list of apprentices, giving a link to some of their work. The 'pros', experienced people who would like to guide/mentor/teach, would pick someone from the list and offer to join them as their mentor in the contest.
The apprentice would work on the project and do the majority of the work, while the mentor, who likely has an industry job and limited time most of the day, would give guidance in his or her spare time, helping the apprentice to make a great entry of their own merit.
thats a good idea too! giving the due merit to the mentor obviously... but something along these lines is quite doable i guess
Another thing, how many of you guys have tried the Google Hangouts doing Art? I have seen about 20 of us doing it off and on.