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Suggestions for new computer setup

leleuxart
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leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
I'm in the market for building a new computer. I've been using a laptop(Core 2 Duo 2.6, 5GB RAM, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3670) for 4 years and it's held up pretty well, even in UDK. I've been doing some research and found some threads here and there, but I can't seem to settle on one card or one processor, and so on.

My budget is $1000 to $1500(give or take). I'm looking for something that will be good for working in Maya, Max, ZBrush, UDK, CryEngine, etc(you know, the usual stuff). I don't plan on doing any rendering. My only other concern is having up-to-date parts so it'll last me awhile. This is my first computer I'm building and up until now, I stuck with manufacturer customization options.

Does anyone have any suggestions or a build that I could potentially work off of? Thanks in advance
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  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    My last PC has been a Dell Studio XPS for like $800 (w/o monitor). Held up pretty well. After 2 years I got a new video card. I threw in some SSDs, but they're more for convenience rather than a must to keep it able to work with ZB/UDK/Maya etc. It's still going strong. Will probably last another 2 years.

    That's my 2nd Dell and it's been very stable machine once set up with a clean Windows and some restraint on installing random crapware from the internet. I used to build my own rigs, but the price/convenience/stability of those Dell machines is hard to beat (unless you love hwardware tinkering)
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  • m4dcow
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    m4dcow interpolator
    leleuxart wrote: »
    I'm in the market for building a new computer. I've been using a laptop(Core 2 Duo 2.6, 5GB RAM, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3670) for 4 years and it's held up pretty well, even in UDK. I've been doing some research and found some threads here and there, but I can't seem to settle on one card or one processor, and so on.

    My budget is $1000 to $1500(give or take). I'm looking for something that will be good for working in Maya, Max, ZBrush, UDK, CryEngine, etc(you know, the usual stuff). I don't plan on doing any rendering. My only other concern is having up-to-date parts so it'll last me awhile. This is my first computer I'm building and up until now, I stuck with manufacturer customization options.

    Does anyone have any suggestions or a build that I could potentially work off of? Thanks in advance
    • Buy a bunch of Ram DDR3 is cheap now, so 4*4gb sticks for a total of 16gb can be had for less than $100 at newegg.
    • Get an SSD, Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) some people might say you don't need one this large, but they have come down enough in price where it isn't that much of a hit for a larger one and you won't have to worry about moving files back and forth.
    • Intel Ivy Bridge, 3570-k seems like a sweet spot at $240, the 3770k is $110 more and is upto you if it is worth it. I would get some z77 board to match from your preferred motherboard manufacturer.
    • Videocard-wise I would recommend Nvidia for 3d work, probably a GTX670 but you could save a few bucks with a GTX560 (there is no 6 series equivalent just yet).
    • A decent power supply from a solid manufacturer, I'm partial to corsair. 650+ should be more than enough, buy modular if you are ever going to tinker with the case.
    This should be something to work from, I don't know if you are looking for a monitor in that range too, but there is plenty to trim from this list to make budget.
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    Kwramm wrote: »
    My last PC has been a Dell Studio XPS for like $800 (w/o monitor). Held up pretty well. After 2 years I got a new video card. I threw in some SSDs, but they're more for convenience rather than a must to keep it able to work with ZB/UDK/Maya etc. It's still going strong. Will probably last another 2 years.

    That's my 2nd Dell and it's been very stable machine once set up with a clean Windows and some restraint on installing random crapware from the internet. I used to build my own rigs, but the price/convenience/stability of those Dell machines is hard to beat (unless you love hwardware tinkering)

    Yeah, my laptop is actually a Dell Studio XPS 16 and it's been amazing. I haven't had a single problem and I have used it for 3 years in college, including my rendering classes and whatnot. I just want to get a desktop now so I can work easier with less waiting time :)

    m4dcow wrote: »
    • Buy a bunch of Ram DDR3 is cheap now, so 4*4gb sticks for a total of 16gb can be had for less than $100 at newegg.
    • Get an SSD, Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) some people might say you don't need one this large, but they have come down enough in price where it isn't that much of a hit for a larger one and you won't have to worry about moving files back and forth.
    • Intel Ivy Bridge, 3570-k seems like a sweet spot at $240, the 3770k is $110 more and is upto you if it is worth it. I would get some z77 board to match from your preferred motherboard manufacturer.
    • Videocard-wise I would recommend Nvidia for 3d work, probably a GTX670 but you could save a few bucks with a GTX560 (there is no 6 series equivalent just yet).
    • A decent power supply from a solid manufacturer, I'm partial to corsair. 650+ should be more than enough, buy modular if you are ever going to tinker with the case.
    This should be something to work from, I don't know if you are looking for a monitor in that range too, but there is plenty to trim from this list to make budget.

    Awesome! Thanks for these, I'll take a look and try to set everything up. I really want to buy everything at once, so I'll probably end up making the list and waiting for a bit to save up more. Quick question, why do people recommend just one SSD? Is it for the stability to store your art files, or is it the speed when used as the main drive? I kind of planned on having separate drives, depending on my motherboard and case. At least 2, one for art and one for everything else.
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  • JonathanLambert
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    JonathanLambert polycounter lvl 6
    Put your OS and your production software on the SSD and use seperate cheaper HDDs for mass storage. Also, it's a good idea to add yet another HDD and/or cloud storage for backups.
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  • tristamus
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    tristamus polycounter lvl 9
    All suggestions here seem good.

    Whatever you do, though, get a KEPLER based architecture GPU, and an Ivy Bridge CPU. They are absolutely amazing. They run so quiet and cool, and are so efficient, it's hard to believe. I've them myself.
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  • FractaL
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    FractaL
    You should spend the bulk of your money on some large HDDs so that you can store stuff, maybe a quad core Intel i5 2600k, since IMO AMD gets outdated very fast (Phenom II x4 owner here), and some 600 series nvidia (for physx), or a 7000 series AMD card.
    Consider dropping a lot of money on your gpu, and make sure it has a lot of vram.

    Also you may want to get a 2nd monitor. Ever since I started to do cg, I've used a secondary one to improve my productivity! Make sure to spend lots of the money on ram too, you need at least 8gb.
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    I'm sorry to bring back an old thread. I've been really busy with finals and I'm finally able to take a look at the parts. I suppose this could be useful to anyone else interested in upgrading as well...

    I went with m4dcow's suggestions, mostly. If anyone sees any errors(I'm familiar with hardware, but I've never built my own computer), feel free to point them out. Also, if you know where I can save a large amount of money without sacrificing performance, let me know. Even if it's on another website. I read the reviews on the 560 and 670 and everyone seemed to favor the 670 because of the huge jump in performance.

    Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196 $79.99

    Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116502 $319.99

    Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138351 $109.99

    RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233190 $89.99

    PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020 $89.99

    GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130787 $419.99

    HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148443 $249.99

    Total: $1359.93 - not including the various rebates and shipping.

    I plan on investing in extra drives eventually, but I really want to get things up and running as soon as possible so I can start working again. Thanks for all the help so far!
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  • walreu
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    walreu
    Why you have selected a cheap mobo for top of the line components?
    I would go with something with much better reviews, like:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130643

    Also, if your not doing any rendering, i would consider saving couple of hundred bucks and going with gtx 560 or 570 (i have 570 and it works like a charm on anything)

    Also, i think smaller sdd would suffice. Go for size in the hdd side..
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    walreu wrote: »
    Why you have selected a cheap mobo for top of the line components?
    I would go with something with much better reviews, like:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130643

    Also, if your not doing any rendering, i would consider saving couple of hundred bucks and going with gtx 560 or 570 (i have 570 and it works like a charm on anything)

    Also, i think smaller sdd would suffice. Go for size in the hdd side..

    I don't know, I wasn't keeping an eye on the total cost until around the end, after I picked the RAM, GPU, processor, etc. and then when I was looking for the mobo, I tried to cut down some of the price.

    Alright, maybe I'll go with the 570 then. Would it be good enough for modeling(high and low), in-engine work with UDK(UE4 eventually) and Cry Engine, and sculpting programs? I figured I'd go with something high-end that way I won't be outdated as fast.

    A 128GB SSD was actually my first choice, but I stuck with 256GB. 128GB seems like a better choice though if I'm just installing my OS and programs.

    Anyone else care to share something, especially on the new suggestions?
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  • EarthQuake
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    EarthQuake mod
    No reason to spend extra on a fancy motherboard, you're generally paying for things you do not need, extra ports, excessive OC'ing controls, etc. Virtually any mobo here has lan, audio, sometimes wifi etc that you don't need to buy one with 6 pci ports or whatever, just wasted cash/space on something you don't need.

    If you're spending a lot on a mobo I think its good to have a decent reason why, if a $100 mobo offers all the features you need there is absolutely no reason to buy a $200 one.

    The biggest thing to look out for mobos is just getting something reliable(read reviews etc). With smaller M-ATX boards also make sure that the video card slot isn't blocking the SATA ports - this can be really annoying.
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  • SsSandu_C
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    SsSandu_C polycounter lvl 13
    Be sure to look at an aftermarket cooler. The Ivy bridge processors tend to heat up really fast under heavy load. Walreu showed a nice alternative to what you chose and even not that expensive. It has a nice layout and some really big radiators to help with the cooling. But take some time and look at what other brands have to offer. If you go for an aftermarket cooler then you should look at how things are set up on the motherboard as the new coolers tend to be rather bulky.
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    Okay, thanks guys. I'll go back over my parts. Definitely gonna go with the 128GB SSD now. Still gonna go over the GTX 570 and look into another mobo. With the case I picked, would the cooling system be alright? It has three fans, two of which are 140mm fans, which I think are pretty big? To be honest, I've been out of the computer hardware game for awhile(been on a laptop for a few years), so some of this stuff is almost brand new. :\
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  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    make sure you have enough USB ports on the mobo - attaching many hi speed devices via a USB hub ain't good for performance. Also if you're unlucky they can lag your wacom or mouse.

    if you want lots of speed, buy 2 small SSDs and use them as raid. SSDs benefit much more from a rad configuration than regular HDs. Plus you may get smaller SSDs cheaper.
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  • m4dcow
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    m4dcow interpolator
    leleuxart wrote: »
    Okay, thanks guys. I'll go back over my parts. Definitely gonna go with the 128GB SSD now. Still gonna go over the GTX 570 and look into another mobo. With the case I picked, would the cooling system be alright? It has three fans, two of which are 140mm fans, which I think are pretty big? To be honest, I've been out of the computer hardware game for awhile(been on a laptop for a few years), so some of this stuff is almost brand new. :\

    So I did suggest a 256GB ssd, and the post which said a smaller would suffice in the same breath basically said to waste more cash on a "fancier" motherboard for little reason.

    You could later on get another 128ssd, and put it into raid and have it be faster and get 256gb worth of space, but that might be a hassle for most.

    A 128gb SSD might suffice, but with a 256 you don't have to worry about clearing your OS drive every 5 minutes, and that drive would be suitable as atop component for any system built in the next 3-4 years.
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  • uncle
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    uncle
    I didn't manage to fill my 150GB system partition in 4 years, not even close. 256 seem like overkill to me.
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  • walreu
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    walreu
    What i meant with the mobo was to buy something with good reviews and reliability.
    Alright, maybe I'll go with the 570 then. Would it be good enough for modeling(high and low), in-engine work with UDK(UE4 eventually) and Cry Engine, and sculpting programs? I figured I'd go with something high-end that way I won't be outdated as fast.

    It works fine in all of those on my pc. (..not ue4 of course :D)
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    m4dcow wrote: »
    So I did suggest a 256GB ssd, and the post which said a smaller would suffice in the same breath basically said to waste more cash on a "fancier" motherboard for little reason.

    You could later on get another 128ssd, and put it into raid and have it be faster and get 256gb worth of space, but that might be a hassle for most.

    A 128gb SSD might suffice, but with a 256 you don't have to worry about clearing your OS drive every 5 minutes, and that drive would be suitable as atop component for any system built in the next 3-4 years.

    Ah okay. I'm gonna try to go over everything today and just try to settle on something. When I found out this laptop costs well over my budget I'm setting for my PC, I felt a lot better about the $1.3k. My concern is the future; I'm currently in school and get loans that I can potentially blow away(might as well get some good stuff while I have the money, until I have to pay it back :poly118: ). Once I'm paying back the loans, I probably won't be able to save up as easily, so maybe I should get top of the line parts now so I won't be outdated in a year when I graduate.

    walreu wrote: »
    What i meant with the mobo was to buy something with good reviews and reliability.



    It works fine in all of those on my pc. (..not ue4 of course :D)

    Yeah, I understood what you were saying. With high-end parts, a cheap mobo might not be the best idea. I remember seeing something that said the UE4 demo was done with a single 680, that makes me wonder if the price really is worth it.
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  • EarthQuake
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    EarthQuake mod
    leleuxart wrote: »
    so maybe I should get top of the line parts now so I won't be outdated in a year when I graduate.

    Buy what you want now, within reason(don't buy super high end stuff, the price curve always represents a terrible value). No reason to save $50-150 or so just to skimp on something you really wanted, don't buy into the "upgrade later" mentality, just buy what you want now and forget about it for a few years.

    I've built too many "oh i'll upgrade XXX later and cheap out on it now" systems, what really happens is you simply replace the whole system sooner than you would otherwise. This applies mostly to CPU's but in general I think its reasonable advice.

    256GB SSD isn't so expensive that you should worry about it. 2x 120GB SSD's is also a good idea, but using them in "raid" to be faster is totally ridiculous, SSD's are super fast and thier main drawback is limited space. If you buy two, use one as a scratch disk for photoshop/mudbox etc(even a 60GB SSD would be good here) this can really help performance if you are working with LARGE files.

    At the end of the day you can work with only a 120GB SSD(what I have currently), but you have to be a lot more careful what you put on it, and you'll generally end up storing your large art assets on another drive entirely, which negates a bit of the effectiveness of using an ssd. You can put your "working" files on, them archive them onto a HDD later but its more of a hassle...


    The system you priced out above seems very good, I would say though:
    1. Your GPU is too expensive, buying a slightly lower model can save you a lot of money, in the $200-ish range there is very good value. GPU's are the one thing I would say "upgrade later" as it is the easiest possible upgrade, no need to even reinstall windows(as you would with a SSD upgrade). A rule I try to follow when building systems is your CPU should be the most expensive component, if something else is more expensive, its out of whack.

    A $200 video card paired with that CPU will provide solid performance for a few years easily. A 570 at $250 or a 560 Ti at $200 would be my suggestions.

    2. Buy a decent e-IPS Dell LCD monitor, a $200-350 23-24" model, saving some money from the GPU and investing it into a display with good view angles etc is a really good idea. Unless of course you already have a quality LCD. I would look to spend around $1400-1500 on a computer + quality monitor.
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  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    256GB SSD isn't so expensive that you should worry about it. 2x 120GB SSD's is also a good idea, but using them in "raid" to be faster is totally ridiculous

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-iops,2848.html

    tried it myself with two intel 160gb SSDs. Atto benchmark is pretty much agrees with Tom's on this. It's definitely faster than a single SSD. ...and it's better than throwing away your old SSD because it got too small to buy a new bigger one. Perfect upgrade. Donwside: gotta have a free SATA port.

    I have the OS on there, my 3d apps, scratch space and the files I'm working with and there's still 40gb free. Especially when you do video editing it's fast as heck.

    Sure you can work with 1 SSD, but if you have some money left over, or you already have an SSD and thinking about upgrading...
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  • EarthQuake
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    EarthQuake mod
    Kwramm wrote: »
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-iops,2848.html

    tried it myself with two intel 160gb SSDs. Atto benchmark is pretty much agrees with Tom's on this. It's definitely faster than a single SSD. ...and it's better than throwing away your old SSD because it got too small to buy a new bigger one. Perfect upgrade. Donwside: gotta have a free SATA port.

    Ok, maybe I'm a raid noob then. I thought to double the performance with raid you lost half the space.... Maybe i'm thinking about raid 1 though. I'm not sure why you would "throw away" an ssd in any case... If you have the extra sata port to run two you have... the extra sata port to run 1 + another later...

    My basic point was that SSD's are "fast enough" that I wouldn't really worry about it. You'll notice the difference between your old HDD and a really really fast SSD drive, will you notice the difference between a really really fast SSD and and even faster SSD? Not sure... Benchmarking =! real world use.
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks guys. I'll probably downgrade to a cheaper GPU. I figured with hardware, what you pay is what you get, but I guess that isn't the case. I read that the 670 was supposed to be mid-range price and not $400, that would have been perfect.

    As for the extra SSDs, RAID, and scratch disks, I think I'm gonna hold off for now and stick with the single 128GB SSD. I've worked on fairly large PSDs with minimal problems on my laptop, which doesn't have a SSD. I think I just want to get the essentials now and get the extra parts when I need them. I still have my laptop, various cloud storage, and two external drives. I'd rather only keep my in progress files on my main drive anyway. My music is already stored on an external drive, as well as my movies. The only things on my internal drive is my OS, programs, and the random shit I download that is usually cleaned up after awhile.

    An extra monitor is something else I need. I'm currently using a 17" laptop with a 32" LCD 1080p monitor(with a tv tuner :)). I plan on using the 32" as a main monitor until I get another one and I'm getting my old 22" monitor when I go home again. My ideal setup would be a very nice display for my working monitor(possibly IPS?), with my other two monitors as extras. The 22" monitor is pretty old and isn't the best quality. The 32" monitor probably just needs a better calibration.
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  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    yup, it's not a must. But a nice thing if you need super speed for some reason (video editing?) or you just want more SSD space (in my case), consider a raid. The drives I'm using are fairly old by now (intel 320 series) so picking up a 2nd one wasn't very expensive.

    I'm just happy to get a neat speed increase without paying extra for the latest SSD hardware, when all I wanted was just more space
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    Kwramm wrote: »
    yup, it's not a must. But a nice thing if you need super speed for some reason (video editing?) or you just want more SSD space (in my case), consider a raid. The drives I'm using are fairly old by now (intel 320 series) so picking up a 2nd one wasn't very expensive.

    I'm just happy to get a neat speed increase without paying extra for the latest SSD hardware, when all I wanted was just more space

    Video editing isn't really a concern. As long as I can model, sculpt, and use an engine without any problems, I'm good. For extra storage, I'll probably invest in some more drives as I need them/find deals. I can certainly make it to Black Friday/Christmas.

    For an update on the build, how would this GPU compare? I've read some reviews on other models and this seems to be a good option based on those alone. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130593

    I think I might need to find a bigger case now. The card is said to be fairly big and the reviews on the case are saying it's kind of tight. I'd rather have extra room than not enough. Multiple fans, large space, and a clear cover are preferred, so back to the drawing board with that I suppose.
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  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    SSD is more like a luxury feature anyway. We have an entire studio full with artists and not a single one has a SSD and they all sculpt and model just fine. For HDDs/SSDs make sure you have at least 2 of them, and use 1 for regular backup (e.g. via MS synctoy), so if 1 drive dies due to hardware failure, your stuff is backed up. In any case, go for reliability over speed if you don't have too many dollars to spend.

    or do a mirroring raid, but its less secure - i.e. you delete stuff in the OS, it's deleted right away on the mirrored drive too (doh!)
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  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 12
    Here is a newer build. I want to go ahead and order everything soon. I'm getting really anxious and I'm leaving town for a at least a week, I'd rather be here when my parts come.

    Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146091 $99.99

    Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116502 $319.99

    Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130643 $189.99

    RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233190 $89.99

    PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020 $89.99

    GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130593 $269.99

    HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148442 $124.99

    Total: $1184, without rebates or shipping.

    How does this compare now? I realized I should probably get a wireless card and CD drive too, probably a sound card as well.
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