just chiming in to say your work has improved alot and those two girls are really well done , no exageration on the cloth folds , clean defined facial planes that make them believable , congrats POST MOREEE
Thank you guys. Johnnyraptor, the count is 13K, but the number is a bit misleading. There are a couple places where I have to keep polygons even though they are hidden, since she will have several changes of clothing. Without the stuff you cannot see, it's about 10K. I know that's a ton compared to what many people use.
Another sketch of the guy using the same mesh as the last one.
Just a de-stresser/practice, first personal thing I've done in a while, just needed not to work on someone elses stuff. From a reference photo, but my guess is nobody will be able to tell who it is supposed to be.
Kinda making some changes to this girl. I never got to use her in a project. I'm thinking this will be the main model moving forward for a beta test project for Marmoset2, scifi piece with a focus on materials and the rendering. Excited.
However I'm not sure if it's the best course, as the project might get involved with a possible civil-war type thing moving forward, not sure how those guys/gal would feel about it...
Did this for someone with questions, figured I'd just post it. Most people will know this stuff so maybe not so useful.
It's just one way of doing a really quick cage bake, especially when you're having problems with the automatic cages that maya or 3dsmax or xnormals are autogenerating for you.
I don't know if other people do it this way. I invented this on my own when I was having trouble with xnormal cages. I know more traditional ways of doing it, but this one always seems to be faster, although maybe a bit less accurate - still, never got horrible results going this route.
Thanks for writing out this baking procedure !
I haven't made my own cage before, but this makes it so simple, so I'm gonna do that now Hope you don't mind, but I will pin it on my Pinterest board as How-To for others to see as well.
First personal thing I've done in awhile. Saw some photography portraits on facebook and couldn't help myself. I mixed and matched features, and used photosource for the texture, and blended things a bit by hand. Took about 3-4 hours and I really enjoyed myself.
Worked up an eye, trying to be more accurate about the way it's built.
Here is the diagram I used to get proportions etc. I tried to cross check it, but feel free to let me know if these porportions aren't correct.
Here is where I ended up. Seems like the cornea might be a bit big. Texture isn't too great but wasn't my purpose, I just wanted a realistically proportioned eye to work with.
Here are the eye files if anyone wants them. It's the inner eye, the eye shell, plus the texture (bad), the normals, and the overall color (not necessary).
If anyone knows a better way to contruct the eye, let me know. I considered using opacity to blank out the diffuse in the cornea, and making the iris it's own shape, and then using the back of the shell as the body of the eye, but I'm not sure.
Yeah, usually those eye diagrams tend to exaggerate the scale of things, so the cornea bulge is probably a bit much. It is, however, looking good on the mesh and seems like good practice for making eyes more accurate.
It looks like the cornea/outer eye has the iris texture on it, which wouldn't be correct. Is that a rendering effect or something? I've loaded up your files and cant get it to look nearly as good, what alpha and gloss/spec settings did you use for the outer shell?
Holy crap, haven't checked your thread in a while. That cage construction tutorial is extremely helpful. It seems so obvious now. Am I correct in assuming that this replaces the need for fiddling with the ray distance calculator within xNormal?
That eyeball is really looking solid, as well. I've been reusing the same eye that I made about six months ago, and like you, went for the physically accurate approach. In the reference I used, the cornea did not appear to bulge quite as much as it does in your eye. Even then, it seemed to bulge much more than I was comfortable with, but yours looks fantastic when wrapped under the eyelids.
Are the textures/alphas photo-sourced or hand painted/sculpted?
Thanks for the info, that's why I asked. I will try to find a more accurate diagram. As for the eye, the outer shell has no texture, it's just a shell with refraction. Using a refraction IOR of 1.38 will cause the cornea to pop out like it does, which is why you can see it from the side, which I believe is how it's actually supposed to work.
did you download the example eyes that earthquake (i think?) posted in the marmo 2 thread? they're really interesting to look at if you get a chance, to get an idea of how to do all that stuff in realtime (more or less) using paralax for making the iris look recessed behind the cornea. really cool stuff
Aw shit this is great man. Really appreciate the cage baking tutorial you made. I bet it'll help so much in the future! The yes are looking nice. Definitely going to follow
triangulating by hand is realy ineffective, atleast if you are using max.
max always has your mesh triangulated even if it is displayed as quads, and you can edit the triangulation in this mode with just one click to flip a triangle.
also its nondestructive, so if you were to make adjustments to your mesh, you wouldn´t have to retriangulate by hand.
when you are exporting you just have to activate triangulation or export as triangles and it will use the right triangulation of your mesh.
Thanks Goeddy, yeah in step one I put "triangulated low-poly, to create this mesh use the 'triangulate' function in any 3d app.' I wouldn't suggest anyone triangulating a 10K mesh by hand.
I don't use max, but I do envy that non-destructive feature.
_____________
Found better proportion refs and remade another eye plus did another sculpt. This one has a floating iris, but still the correct cornea with the refraction.
did you download the example eyes that earthquake (i think?) posted in the marmo 2 thread? they're really interesting to look at if you get a chance, to get an idea of how to do all that stuff in realtime (more or less) using paralax for making the iris look recessed behind the cornea. really cool stuff
Hey can you link this or tell us where abouts this is. Can't find it at all, searched through the threads high and low, must have missed it somewhere
If anyone knows a better way to contruct the eye, let me know. I considered using opacity to blank out the diffuse in the cornea, and making the iris it's own shape, and then using the back of the shell as the body of the eye, but I'm not sure.
Thats how i do it. Gives the eye a more lively feel.
I guess you rendered this in marmoset?
Would be interesting to see the material properties.
This is in Vray, haven't gotten too into Marmoset2 yet, but looking forward to it.
Okay I finished a new one, should be pretty accurate to correct proportions and how a real eye works. The shader is much easier to control, and I think it gives a more accurate result.
Here is the explanation of how I set it up, plus the download link. I used vray, but you should be able to transfer the maps to whatever program/renderer you want.
Final for this render, although I am going to revist the anatomy portion, I have some areas to focus on: lower jaw, lips, forehead, hairline, ears, eyefold.
Ged - this is vray. I think Marmoset would definitely match it, given that you can bring some pretty massive files into Marmoset.
Itismario - My workflow for small fibers has changed recently. I used to use fibermesh, then export as curves into maya, then use maya hair system to make the hairs. But for shorter fibers I have started turning them into geo in zbrush, then using the inflate tool to give them some randomness in the thickness, and then exporting them as geometry into maya. Still using the VrayHairMtl shader however.
My warmup sketch from this morning was revisiting my wifes portrait from a long while back. Everything is very different, didn't keep anything except the bad mesh.
Ged - this is vray. I think Marmoset would definitely match it, given that you can bring some pretty massive files into Marmoset.
Itismario - My workflow for small fibers has changed recently. I used to use fibermesh, then export as curves into maya, then use maya hair system to make the hairs. But for shorter fibers I have started turning them into geo in zbrush, then using the inflate tool to give them some randomness in the thickness, and then exporting them as geometry into maya. Still using the VrayHairMtl shader however.
Did some rendering tests in the background while I worked. Long long way to go but much better than the first portrait I did of my wife, which was what set me out wanting to be good at portraits and rendering in the first place.
Again still just shader/render testing while I do actual work. Hair is the worst, but first try I know what I need to do there for now (layers, shader, lighting, modeling).
Your progress from the first page to this page is awesome man! Really inspiring stuff.
As for crits, the 4 things that stand out to me most are:
- The skin feels a bit flat. I think increasing the spec just a bit will help. Also on her lips.
- I think the hair could use a little more volume. It feels a little thin and flat right now, mainly in the front.
-The shadow in the inner portion of the ear, (I believe called the concha), is a little harsh, imo.
-The shadow that wraps around her nostril also feels kinda harsh. Makes the nostril look very sharp and angular...hopefully that made sense! haha
I have been doing a fairly large freelance project for the last couple month. First 4 individual characters, and now I am working on two modular character systems for them, 1 for men and one for women. A bunch of heads, a bunch of shirts, pants, accessories, shoes etc, plus texture overlays for things like pimples, dirt, sweat, etc, and texture changes for each piece of clothing.
It's all for a game.
It's taking a ton of my time, and I might show it here eventually but not until it's done. In the meantime I do these renders in the background while I work. So I set it up for 20 minutes and then it renders out for an hour or two and then I change things etc. I probably put in about 1 hour on these a day while I work on the freelance project.
So no, this is just a hobby. A fun, challenging hobby that is different from what I do the rest of the 8 hours I work, which is nice. Plus these skills are starting to merge, since all the new engines (well, the fun ones) are PBS/PBL, the skills are starting to really transfer. I think of it a bit like futureproofing.
I have been doing a fairly large freelance project for the last couple month. First 4 individual characters, and now I am working on two modular character systems for them, 1 for men and one for women. A bunch of heads, a bunch of shirts, pants, accessories, shoes etc, plus texture overlays for things like pimples, dirt, sweat, etc, and texture changes for each piece of clothing.
It's all for a game.
It's taking a ton of my time, and I might show it here eventually but not until it's done. In the meantime I do these renders in the background while I work. So I set it up for 20 minutes and then it renders out for an hour or two and then I change things etc. I probably put in about 1 hour on these a day while I work on the freelance project.
So no, this is just a hobby. A fun, challenging hobby that is different from what I do the rest of the 8 hours I work, which is nice. Plus these skills are starting to merge, since all the new engines (well, the fun ones) are PBS/PBL, the skills are starting to really transfer. I think of it a bit like futureproofing.
Sorry for the long-winded answer.
As a individual whom uses Vray on a daily basis to produce photorealistic CGI renders; I can definitely assure you the skills will be incredibly useful for PBS/PBL it also impacts your texture work aswell and your knowledge of material definition.
YSalex, if you'd like to try an empty scene with my Vray settings i'd be happy to send you one; it might cut down your render time / quality ratio.
That's a nice offer. I am using the Nederhorst settings (give or take, I've been experimenting with AA filters etc.) I also have some things cranked up to take the noise out of the very thin, very noisy hair.
Mind just writing a short overview of how you setup your scene/render settings? What you're looking for etc? All I really do is read forums and opinions on it.
The hair is missing a little bit of specular. I think that even damaged hair has a little bit of specular, while healthy hair can be quite glossy. The random strands are too evenly random. <- that doesn't make much sense but it's a bit like the random strands are not naturally random, they are computer random. I think what gives it away is that the kinks are just a bit too even and there's a little bit too much of it. It's hard to put my finger on but I hope I'm making some sense. I also did a quick paintover...
Added specular to hair
Darkened the corner of the eye slightly
Added a subtle highlight to the lips (a bit crap)
Softened the bump on the cheek
Added a subtle red to the ear, cheek and the bottom of the jaw/underside of the jaw
Damn that's great. Hopefully the new version takes care of most of these. I have been trying to work on the specular of the face, and I know that the lips and cheeks are suffering the worst from a lack of highlights. My hair shader is really bad, I'm having a hard time getting the reflections working properly but your image shows why it looks so much nicer.
The Vray HairMtl would take care of this for me, but it produces really noisy results, so I'm trying to make my own. It's going... alright. I might just use the vrayhairmtl to do a seperate reflection pass and comp them.
I also reduced the noise in the cheek a lot, way too much, I'm going to sculpt some of it back in.
Replies
Another sketch of the guy using the same mesh as the last one.
Dynamesh, took 2 hours.
However I'm not sure if it's the best course, as the project might get involved with a possible civil-war type thing moving forward, not sure how those guys/gal would feel about it...
It's just one way of doing a really quick cage bake, especially when you're having problems with the automatic cages that maya or 3dsmax or xnormals are autogenerating for you.
I don't know if other people do it this way. I invented this on my own when I was having trouble with xnormal cages. I know more traditional ways of doing it, but this one always seems to be faster, although maybe a bit less accurate - still, never got horrible results going this route.
Making a cage for baking in zbrush:
I haven't made my own cage before, but this makes it so simple, so I'm gonna do that now
Here is the diagram I used to get proportions etc. I tried to cross check it, but feel free to let me know if these porportions aren't correct.
Here is where I ended up. Seems like the cornea might be a bit big. Texture isn't too great but wasn't my purpose, I just wanted a realistically proportioned eye to work with.
Here are the eye files if anyone wants them. It's the inner eye, the eye shell, plus the texture (bad), the normals, and the overall color (not necessary).
http://www.sendspace.com/file/g1fg2d
If anyone knows a better way to contruct the eye, let me know. I considered using opacity to blank out the diffuse in the cornea, and making the iris it's own shape, and then using the back of the shell as the body of the eye, but I'm not sure.
It looks like the cornea/outer eye has the iris texture on it, which wouldn't be correct. Is that a rendering effect or something? I've loaded up your files and cant get it to look nearly as good, what alpha and gloss/spec settings did you use for the outer shell?
That eyeball is really looking solid, as well. I've been reusing the same eye that I made about six months ago, and like you, went for the physically accurate approach. In the reference I used, the cornea did not appear to bulge quite as much as it does in your eye. Even then, it seemed to bulge much more than I was comfortable with, but yours looks fantastic when wrapped under the eyelids.
Are the textures/alphas photo-sourced or hand painted/sculpted?
triangulating by hand is realy ineffective, atleast if you are using max.
max always has your mesh triangulated even if it is displayed as quads, and you can edit the triangulation in this mode with just one click to flip a triangle.
also its nondestructive, so if you were to make adjustments to your mesh, you wouldn´t have to retriangulate by hand.
when you are exporting you just have to activate triangulation or export as triangles and it will use the right triangulation of your mesh.
still a great tutorial though!
I don't use max, but I do envy that non-destructive feature.
_____________
Found better proportion refs and remade another eye plus did another sculpt. This one has a floating iris, but still the correct cornea with the refraction.
Hey can you link this or tell us where abouts this is. Can't find it at all, searched through the threads high and low, must have missed it somewhere
EDIT: Nevermind I found it. It was on the opening post in- Getting started tut is out! Marmoset Toolbag 2 - download now
Thats how i do it. Gives the eye a more lively feel.
I guess you rendered this in marmoset?
Would be interesting to see the material properties.
Okay I finished a new one, should be pretty accurate to correct proportions and how a real eye works. The shader is much easier to control, and I think it gives a more accurate result.
Here is the explanation of how I set it up, plus the download link. I used vray, but you should be able to transfer the maps to whatever program/renderer you want.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/orxezq
Next update will be:
more SSS in some areas
baldness stubble
small translucent hairs
couple other things
Also here is the sculpt for it:
Damn I wish I knew anatomy like you
Itismario - My workflow for small fibers has changed recently. I used to use fibermesh, then export as curves into maya, then use maya hair system to make the hairs. But for shorter fibers I have started turning them into geo in zbrush, then using the inflate tool to give them some randomness in the thickness, and then exporting them as geometry into maya. Still using the VrayHairMtl shader however.
I'm going to call this final.
Whoops wrong version, here is new sorry.
That is crisp....Damn.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1019262
It will hopefully be inspiring
Here is the hair render, any crits?
As for crits, the 4 things that stand out to me most are:
- The skin feels a bit flat. I think increasing the spec just a bit will help. Also on her lips.
- I think the hair could use a little more volume. It feels a little thin and flat right now, mainly in the front.
-The shadow in the inner portion of the ear, (I believe called the concha), is a little harsh, imo.
-The shadow that wraps around her nostril also feels kinda harsh. Makes the nostril look very sharp and angular...hopefully that made sense! haha
Just my 2 cents! Looking great though man!
Are you moving away from game engine characters and focusing on pre-rendered now? Or you just lost in the rendering process?
It's all for a game.
It's taking a ton of my time, and I might show it here eventually but not until it's done. In the meantime I do these renders in the background while I work. So I set it up for 20 minutes and then it renders out for an hour or two and then I change things etc. I probably put in about 1 hour on these a day while I work on the freelance project.
So no, this is just a hobby. A fun, challenging hobby that is different from what I do the rest of the 8 hours I work, which is nice. Plus these skills are starting to merge, since all the new engines (well, the fun ones) are PBS/PBL, the skills are starting to really transfer. I think of it a bit like futureproofing.
Sorry for the long-winded answer.
As a individual whom uses Vray on a daily basis to produce photorealistic CGI renders; I can definitely assure you the skills will be incredibly useful for PBS/PBL
YSalex, if you'd like to try an empty scene with my Vray settings i'd be happy to send you one; it might cut down your render time / quality ratio.
Dave
Mind just writing a short overview of how you setup your scene/render settings? What you're looking for etc? All I really do is read forums and opinions on it.
The Vray HairMtl would take care of this for me, but it produces really noisy results, so I'm trying to make my own. It's going... alright. I might just use the vrayhairmtl to do a seperate reflection pass and comp them.
I also reduced the noise in the cheek a lot, way too much, I'm going to sculpt some of it back in.
Seriously that's great, thank you.