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Ysalex Anatomy Practice Thread (nsfw)

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  • JohnnyRaptor
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    JohnnyRaptor polycounter lvl 11
    turned out really nice ysalex,

    whats your budget?

    also, personally, i would have toned down the fresnel on the skin a tad, blows out a bit compared to the rest of the values on the 2 first shots of her.
  • Sculptaur
    Super cute! Great work and thanks for the shoe workflow a few pages back, handy stuff!
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro polycounter
    just chiming in to say your work has improved alot and those two girls are really well done , no exageration on the cloth folds , clean defined facial planes that make them believable , congrats :) POST MOREEE
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Thank you guys. Johnnyraptor, the count is 13K, but the number is a bit misleading. There are a couple places where I have to keep polygons even though they are hidden, since she will have several changes of clothing. Without the stuff you cannot see, it's about 10K. I know that's a ton compared to what many people use.

    Another sketch of the guy using the same mesh as the last one.

    lK4W8Zw.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Just a de-stresser/practice, first personal thing I've done in a while, just needed not to work on someone elses stuff. From a reference photo, but my guess is nobody will be able to tell who it is supposed to be.

    Dynamesh, took 2 hours.

    MMmmbsG.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Kinda making some changes to this girl. I never got to use her in a project. I'm thinking this will be the main model moving forward for a beta test project for Marmoset2, scifi piece with a focus on materials and the rendering. Excited.

    However I'm not sure if it's the best course, as the project might get involved with a possible civil-war type thing moving forward, not sure how those guys/gal would feel about it...

    yZrJHz4.jpg
    vTNF1wY.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Did this for someone with questions, figured I'd just post it. Most people will know this stuff so maybe not so useful.

    It's just one way of doing a really quick cage bake, especially when you're having problems with the automatic cages that maya or 3dsmax or xnormals are autogenerating for you.

    I don't know if other people do it this way. I invented this on my own when I was having trouble with xnormal cages. I know more traditional ways of doing it, but this one always seems to be faster, although maybe a bit less accurate - still, never got horrible results going this route.

    Making a cage for baking in zbrush:

    bZf8OfL.jpg
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for writing out this baking procedure !
    I haven't made my own cage before, but this makes it so simple, so I'm gonna do that now :) Hope you don't mind, but I will pin it on my Pinterest board as How-To for others to see as well.
  • ILLMATICC
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    ILLMATICC polycounter lvl 6
    Cheers for the tut dude, its always interesting to see other peoples processes, i'll be sure to try this in my next bake :)
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    First personal thing I've done in awhile. Saw some photography portraits on facebook and couldn't help myself. I mixed and matched features, and used photosource for the texture, and blended things a bit by hand. Took about 3-4 hours and I really enjoyed myself.

    lmfAU7R.jpg
  • KristaW
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    KristaW polycounter lvl 5
    I love your last study. It does a really good job showing blindness and her features are really beautiful. Inspiring as always.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Worked up an eye, trying to be more accurate about the way it's built.

    Here is the diagram I used to get proportions etc. I tried to cross check it, but feel free to let me know if these porportions aren't correct.

    pFd7euB.jpg

    Here is where I ended up. Seems like the cornea might be a bit big. Texture isn't too great but wasn't my purpose, I just wanted a realistically proportioned eye to work with.

    k1t3EPD.jpg

    Here are the eye files if anyone wants them. It's the inner eye, the eye shell, plus the texture (bad), the normals, and the overall color (not necessary).

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/g1fg2d

    If anyone knows a better way to contruct the eye, let me know. I considered using opacity to blank out the diffuse in the cornea, and making the iris it's own shape, and then using the back of the shell as the body of the eye, but I'm not sure.
  • arcitecht
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    arcitecht polycounter lvl 6
    Yeah, usually those eye diagrams tend to exaggerate the scale of things, so the cornea bulge is probably a bit much. It is, however, looking good on the mesh and seems like good practice for making eyes more accurate.

    It looks like the cornea/outer eye has the iris texture on it, which wouldn't be correct. Is that a rendering effect or something? I've loaded up your files and cant get it to look nearly as good, what alpha and gloss/spec settings did you use for the outer shell?
  • Brandon.LaFrance
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    Brandon.LaFrance Polycount Sponsor
    Holy crap, haven't checked your thread in a while. That cage construction tutorial is extremely helpful. It seems so obvious now. Am I correct in assuming that this replaces the need for fiddling with the ray distance calculator within xNormal?

    That eyeball is really looking solid, as well. I've been reusing the same eye that I made about six months ago, and like you, went for the physically accurate approach. In the reference I used, the cornea did not appear to bulge quite as much as it does in your eye. Even then, it seemed to bulge much more than I was comfortable with, but yours looks fantastic when wrapped under the eyelids.

    Are the textures/alphas photo-sourced or hand painted/sculpted?
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Thanks for the info, that's why I asked. I will try to find a more accurate diagram. As for the eye, the outer shell has no texture, it's just a shell with refraction. Using a refraction IOR of 1.38 will cause the cornea to pop out like it does, which is why you can see it from the side, which I believe is how it's actually supposed to work.
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 9
    did you download the example eyes that earthquake (i think?) posted in the marmo 2 thread? they're really interesting to look at if you get a chance, to get an idea of how to do all that stuff in realtime (more or less) using paralax for making the iris look recessed behind the cornea. really cool stuff
  • Pisciel
    Aw shit this is great man. Really appreciate the cage baking tutorial you made. I bet it'll help so much in the future! The yes are looking nice. Definitely going to follow :)
  • Goeddy
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    Goeddy greentooth
    hey, about the baking tutorial.

    triangulating by hand is realy ineffective, atleast if you are using max.
    max always has your mesh triangulated even if it is displayed as quads, and you can edit the triangulation in this mode with just one click to flip a triangle.

    also its nondestructive, so if you were to make adjustments to your mesh, you wouldn´t have to retriangulate by hand.
    when you are exporting you just have to activate triangulation or export as triangles and it will use the right triangulation of your mesh.

    still a great tutorial though!

    triangle.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Thanks Goeddy, yeah in step one I put "triangulated low-poly, to create this mesh use the 'triangulate' function in any 3d app.' I wouldn't suggest anyone triangulating a 10K mesh by hand.

    I don't use max, but I do envy that non-destructive feature.

    _____________

    Found better proportion refs and remade another eye plus did another sculpt. This one has a floating iris, but still the correct cornea with the refraction.

    RTy3XPD.jpg
  • JordanLeigh
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    JordanLeigh polycounter lvl 5
    mr_ace wrote: »
    did you download the example eyes that earthquake (i think?) posted in the marmo 2 thread? they're really interesting to look at if you get a chance, to get an idea of how to do all that stuff in realtime (more or less) using paralax for making the iris look recessed behind the cornea. really cool stuff

    Hey can you link this or tell us where abouts this is. Can't find it at all, searched through the threads high and low, must have missed it somewhere

    EDIT: Nevermind I found it. It was on the opening post in- Getting started tut is out! Marmoset Toolbag 2 - download now
  • Rumkugel
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    Rumkugel polycounter lvl 10
    If anyone knows a better way to contruct the eye, let me know. I considered using opacity to blank out the diffuse in the cornea, and making the iris it's own shape, and then using the back of the shell as the body of the eye, but I'm not sure.

    Thats how i do it. Gives the eye a more lively feel.

    I guess you rendered this in marmoset?
    Would be interesting to see the material properties.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    This is in Vray, haven't gotten too into Marmoset2 yet, but looking forward to it.

    Okay I finished a new one, should be pretty accurate to correct proportions and how a real eye works. The shader is much easier to control, and I think it gives a more accurate result.

    Here is the explanation of how I set it up, plus the download link. I used vray, but you should be able to transfer the maps to whatever program/renderer you want.

    dUWZcsl.jpg

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/orxezq
  • McKracken
    That's awesome, thanks for the tut!
  • Tadao215
    nice breakdown, thanks!
  • D4V1DC
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    D4V1DC polycounter lvl 13
    How generous thank you for the share and learning material, will come in handy for an eye of a character i am working on.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Likeness practice for tonight. More hours than I care to admit.

    mZfi0Z7.jpg
  • Makkon
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    Makkon interpolator
    I think it's high time I subscribed to this thread. Amazing work.
  • ysalex
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Update. Did some modeling and worked on a couple things.

    Next update will be:

    more SSS in some areas

    baldness stubble

    small translucent hairs

    couple other things

    0MKJt44.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Would love some feedback on this on how to get it to the next level.

    eJyXEmJ.jpg

    Also here is the sculpt for it:

    XNX2cFq.jpg
  • whiketan
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    whiketan polycounter lvl 3
    You Are so far above and beyond anything I could currently make, I just can't even find anything wrong with this. Amazing, really.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Final for this render, although I am going to revist the anatomy portion, I have some areas to focus on: lower jaw, lips, forehead, hairline, ears, eyefold.

    FXzwHlm.jpg
  • ysalex
  • Dave Jr
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    Dave Jr polycounter lvl 5
    Amazing work Ysalex, I think some added reflection to the eye could push it further though.

    Damn I wish I knew anatomy like you :(
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    what are you rendering in? how would this look in toolbag2? bet it would still look ace haha
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Ged - this is vray. I think Marmoset would definitely match it, given that you can bring some pretty massive files into Marmoset.

    Itismario - My workflow for small fibers has changed recently. I used to use fibermesh, then export as curves into maya, then use maya hair system to make the hairs. But for shorter fibers I have started turning them into geo in zbrush, then using the inflate tool to give them some randomness in the thickness, and then exporting them as geometry into maya. Still using the VrayHairMtl shader however.


    I'm going to call this final.

    Whoops wrong version, here is new sorry.

    DOmWCJ6.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    My warmup sketch from this morning was revisiting my wifes portrait from a long while back. Everything is very different, didn't keep anything except the bad mesh.

    KLhzShD.jpg
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 8
    ysalex wrote: »
    Ged - this is vray. I think Marmoset would definitely match it, given that you can bring some pretty massive files into Marmoset.

    Itismario - My workflow for small fibers has changed recently. I used to use fibermesh, then export as curves into maya, then use maya hair system to make the hairs. But for shorter fibers I have started turning them into geo in zbrush, then using the inflate tool to give them some randomness in the thickness, and then exporting them as geometry into maya. Still using the VrayHairMtl shader however.


    I'm going to call this final.

    Whoops wrong version, here is new sorry.

    [wow]http://i.imgur.com/DOmWCJ6.jpg[/wow]

    That is crisp....Damn.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Did some rendering tests in the background while I worked. Long long way to go but much better than the first portrait I did of my wife, which was what set me out wanting to be good at portraits and rendering in the first place.

    KCRbA45.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Again still just shader/render testing while I do actual work. Hair is the worst, but first try I know what I need to do there for now (layers, shader, lighting, modeling).

    P8R8NII.jpg

    PpaoseV.jpg
  • uncle
    This thread gets me mad. I mean inspired. Thank you for that Ysalex.
  • urgaffel
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    urgaffel polycounter lvl 14
    This thread is full of really useful information:

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1019262

    It will hopefully be inspiring :)
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Urgaffel yes Bukkit is very inspiring and has given me some really good advice a couple of times now.

    Here is the hair render, any crits?


    uJJBvvf.jpg
  • NyneDown
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    NyneDown polycounter lvl 11
    Your progress from the first page to this page is awesome man! Really inspiring stuff.

    As for crits, the 4 things that stand out to me most are:

    - The skin feels a bit flat. I think increasing the spec just a bit will help. Also on her lips.
    - I think the hair could use a little more volume. It feels a little thin and flat right now, mainly in the front.
    -The shadow in the inner portion of the ear, (I believe called the concha), is a little harsh, imo.
    -The shadow that wraps around her nostril also feels kinda harsh. Makes the nostril look very sharp and angular...hopefully that made sense! haha

    Just my 2 cents! Looking great though man!
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    That's good stuff thank you.
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 8
    This one is looking so amazing! Loving the skin/texturing, you seem to have really nailed that part on your recent models.

    Are you moving away from game engine characters and focusing on pre-rendered now? Or you just lost in the rendering process?
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    I have been doing a fairly large freelance project for the last couple month. First 4 individual characters, and now I am working on two modular character systems for them, 1 for men and one for women. A bunch of heads, a bunch of shirts, pants, accessories, shoes etc, plus texture overlays for things like pimples, dirt, sweat, etc, and texture changes for each piece of clothing.

    It's all for a game.

    It's taking a ton of my time, and I might show it here eventually but not until it's done. In the meantime I do these renders in the background while I work. So I set it up for 20 minutes and then it renders out for an hour or two and then I change things etc. I probably put in about 1 hour on these a day while I work on the freelance project.

    So no, this is just a hobby. A fun, challenging hobby that is different from what I do the rest of the 8 hours I work, which is nice. Plus these skills are starting to merge, since all the new engines (well, the fun ones) are PBS/PBL, the skills are starting to really transfer. I think of it a bit like futureproofing.

    Sorry for the long-winded answer.
  • Dave Jr
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    Dave Jr polycounter lvl 5
    ysalex wrote: »
    I have been doing a fairly large freelance project for the last couple month. First 4 individual characters, and now I am working on two modular character systems for them, 1 for men and one for women. A bunch of heads, a bunch of shirts, pants, accessories, shoes etc, plus texture overlays for things like pimples, dirt, sweat, etc, and texture changes for each piece of clothing.

    It's all for a game.

    It's taking a ton of my time, and I might show it here eventually but not until it's done. In the meantime I do these renders in the background while I work. So I set it up for 20 minutes and then it renders out for an hour or two and then I change things etc. I probably put in about 1 hour on these a day while I work on the freelance project.

    So no, this is just a hobby. A fun, challenging hobby that is different from what I do the rest of the 8 hours I work, which is nice. Plus these skills are starting to merge, since all the new engines (well, the fun ones) are PBS/PBL, the skills are starting to really transfer. I think of it a bit like futureproofing.

    Sorry for the long-winded answer.

    As a individual whom uses Vray on a daily basis to produce photorealistic CGI renders; I can definitely assure you the skills will be incredibly useful for PBS/PBL :) it also impacts your texture work aswell and your knowledge of material definition.

    YSalex, if you'd like to try an empty scene with my Vray settings i'd be happy to send you one; it might cut down your render time / quality ratio.

    Dave
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    That's a nice offer. I am using the Nederhorst settings (give or take, I've been experimenting with AA filters etc.) I also have some things cranked up to take the noise out of the very thin, very noisy hair.

    Mind just writing a short overview of how you setup your scene/render settings? What you're looking for etc? All I really do is read forums and opinions on it.
  • urgaffel
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    urgaffel polycounter lvl 14
    The hair is missing a little bit of specular. I think that even damaged hair has a little bit of specular, while healthy hair can be quite glossy. The random strands are too evenly random. <- that doesn't make much sense but it's a bit like the random strands are not naturally random, they are computer random. I think what gives it away is that the kinks are just a bit too even and there's a little bit too much of it. It's hard to put my finger on but I hope I'm making some sense. I also did a quick paintover...
    • Added specular to hair
    • Darkened the corner of the eye slightly
    • Added a subtle highlight to the lips (a bit crap)
    • Softened the bump on the cheek
    • Added a subtle red to the ear, cheek and the bottom of the jaw/underside of the jaw
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