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Ergonomics - Save your wrists

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Hey guys and gals,

So, this isn't something I've really thought about before for my wrists. My back is always killing me, but not my wrists. Anyways, over at 11sc, someone asked about using a Wacom for animating. I personally never do, because I use duel screens, and forcing proportions makes you use half your tablet. But, someone posted Kenny Roy's (Author of the How to Cheat in Maya series) video about it, and I thought I would share it with you all. It's actually a really good video to watch. About 25 minutes, but worth a watch. Some good info in there.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuConiRIbWE"]Ask 2011_08_22.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

I didn't know about the swap display feature, but I'm definitely going to try this out. See if I can get use to it.

Replies

  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    Fap jokes incoming...
  • Scruples
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    Scruples polycounter lvl 10
    Ever think about getting a kneeling chair for your back?.
    Thanks for the post, now I am a little scared of wrecking my wrists.
    I have to disagree with the laser mouse, specifically I think he means high dpi mouse but I will point out the high error rate in comparison with optical mice.

    When I did my time as a geologist we essentially used standing desks for everything and my feet were always killing me by the end of the day, my back was fine though.
  • BlvdNights
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    BlvdNights polycounter lvl 8
    We have a moment growing around Telltale of people raising their monitors up and just standing for the whole day.
  • System
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    System admin
    I'm seeing more and more people using their Wacom for everything recently and I'm starting to think its time I did the same. It's definitely more comfortable but I still find right clicking a pain on a Wacom, and what do most people use for their MMB, since it's used a lot in 3D apps?

    I suppose you could map clicks to the buttons, but I use most of them for hotkey's like alt/shift etc, since I can't stand reaching over my Wacom to hit the keyboard.

    I'm keen to give it a shot, but I need a way to get the right/middle click to feel comfortable enough to be second-nature.
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    My wrist has been buggered for a while now from working with bad ergonomics/posture for too long. My main issue is that my chair is really low, my desk is really high and also doesn't have much depth to it, so i find my wrist being constantly bent over the edge of the table, cutting off circulation.... Spent far too much on fancy wrist braces when a chair and desk replacement would have solved everything. I quite like that arm support on the chair in the vid, may have to invest.
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    I naturally sit lower. This gives my wrist an anchor point off the side of the desk so my keyboard hand's palm doesn't rest on the desk. (this is the cheapest way I've determined without getting one of those swivels for your arm) My monitors are eye level so my head doesn't look up or down. I try to sit straight most of the day but It's harder in the chair I have right now. Those aeron chairs are really nice and help a lot. We had them at my last gig.

    I use the furthest rear button on the wacom pen as my middle click. You have to remap it as it doesn't come set up this way by default. I think the default is double click. I use a high dpi mouse as well to reduce left and right swivel on my mouse hand. I have been trying to swap monitors using the button on the wacom but I tend to forget.
  • Tenchi
    TeeJay wrote: »
    ...and what do most people use for their MMB, since it's used a lot in 3D apps?

    I have mmb mapped to the buttons along with shift/alt/ctrl for Maya. I don't have it assigned in other programs.

    I would love that ergo rest, costs an arm and a leg, but will save my wrist :D
  • leslievdb
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    leslievdb polycounter lvl 15
    don't the muscles grow lazy by supporting them each and every minute , thus making them weaker? a genuine question btw not a statement , i don't know anything about ergonomics
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 12
    Wacom tablet for everything and I've never looked back. Hotkey's take care of middle mouse button (it was zoom in Max, now I just use a key for the zoom function and drag the pan - which feels way better and is more accurate). If you have duel monitors you can switch to your other screen with a click of a button (or find one of the old extra wide ones).
  • WarrenM
    don't the muscles grow lazy by supporting them each and every minute , thus making them weaker? a genuine question btw not a statement , i don't know anything about ergonomics
    It's complicated as hell, unfortunately. Stuff starts hurting generally because the muscles that should be doing the work are over worked and other muscles were compensating - but now THOSE muscles are over worked, there's nothing left to compensate with, so you get pain somewhere in the wrist-elbow-shoulder-back chain.

    Not sure what the answer is, specifically, but all I know is that what seems to be the problem often isn't. My wrist pain starts up when my back gets tired. The body is a complex machine.
  • stabbington
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    stabbington polycounter lvl 10
    I ended up developing 'trigger finger', which I'm pretty sure was caused by heavy mouse use, especially excessive scrollwheelery. I couldn't straighten or curl my index finger; I'd have to grab it and manually pop it past the sticking position and then it would just be locked in whatever pose.

    I was pretty bummed at the time, as a touring musician, and could barely draw or write, but could at least feebly click a mouse still.

    I switched to a wacom for everything, and it was better within a matter of weeks. Taken about two years now but I can finally start to play guitar again, no twinges or sticking or aches at all and everything just feels so much smoother and more natural with a wacom to me now. Could not recommend it enough!

    Surprising the amount of folks I've worked with who've ended up with RSI or carpal or shoulder/back problems. Glad my posture isn't too horrible but it's amazing how much the damage slowly accumulates over time :(
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    my wrist has a big lump on it now, bit worrying really. its not my wacom hand, but I do rest on it quite a lot of have had numb fingers in that hand for about 4 years now
  • System
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    System admin
    Thanks guys, I'll see what I can do with the mapping ans get into it.

    Yeah this stuff can be super serious, it's especially prevalent in musicians too. I know a drummer and a guitarist who both had to have surgery which put them out of action for a good number of months due to a nasty case of RSI.
  • ScudzAlmighty
    I've had a cushioned mouse pad for years and never had a problem.
    I also sit pretty high and have terrible posture.

    And while it may be psychological, when I do get any kind of joint pain a nice glass of milk clears it right up.
  • System
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    System admin
    I've had a cushioned mouse pad for years and never had a problem.

    O RLY...
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    I love how the video cuts after the mudbox part ... most likely because of the dual monitor bug with the default "stamp spacing" bug hehe :D

    On of the most important things is to never have one's elbow "in the air" - either hanging outside the range of the desk or lifted up to reach the Cintiq. I personally have a piece of cardboard/fake wood hanging from my home desk just for that (it comes from under the keyboard and extends out of the desk).
  • nyx702
    After watching this video a few months ago I bought one of those robot arm fat holders on there. Its pretty awesome. I highly recommend them. I had to saw a section out of my desk to get it in the right position but it was worth it.

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/ErgoRest-330-013-BK-Articulating-Support-Standard/dp/B000PSWXES/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1334349032&sr=1-1"]Amazon for $50-$80[/ame]

    I also can't recommend Aeron Chairs enough. I had some back problems from a marital arts injury and sitting caused alot of pain. After getting an Aeron Chair no more pain (from that injury) and I am pretty good for 5-6 hours of sitting. Everyone complains that they are expensive but they last FOREVER. New ones come with a 11 year "no questions asked" warranty. I have had mine for 5 years and you can't tell its over a year old. Because they are such good quality you can find them at a discount/liquidated office furniture store and not have to worry too much about them falling apart.
  • Kot_Leopold
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    Kot_Leopold polycounter lvl 13
    Extensive mouse use + bad mouse pad = result:

    25zh3sm.jpg

    Normal left hand compared to the right hand I use my mouse with. Not exactly a wrist problem but this just shows how important ergonomics are.
  • WarrenM
    I've had a cushioned mouse pad for years and never had a problem.
    I also sit pretty high and have terrible posture.

    And while it may be psychological, when I do get any kind of joint pain a nice glass of milk clears it right up.
    That's the thing that gets everyone. It's not a problem until it is. And then it's too late.
  • Rens
    I've been using a wacom only for many years now, best thing i did.
    It takes the twist out of the lower arm, no more trigger finger or pain in my elbow, no cold hand ect. I do use a wrist band/guard to prevent cramping up my wrist or bending it too much while gripping the pen.

    I keep my wacom on mouse mode, it will take some getting used to but it makes much more sense then having it default, and with dual monitors there is no mapping involved, you just drag it to the other side like the mouse would.

    I actualy had to think about mapping those buttons, i have the 1st on the pen to right mouse, and the other to middle mouse,

    It sounds all slow and everything but its just as fast once you get into it.
    I play shooters with the wacom and do some serious damage, you should be able to navigate through some software after that.

    thats another plus, never having to switch when you work between PS, zbrush ect :)
  • Kilkus
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    Kilkus polycounter lvl 15
    This is something i've recently been concerned about preventing in the future. So i decided to switch to using the wacom pen full time, its definitely taking some getting use to, keep finding myself reaching for the mouse so i disconnected it altogether.
  • katana
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    katana polycounter lvl 14
    The only time i have a wrist issue is when the elbow is unsupported. When I work with my entire forearm on the table, it's less of an issue.

    I did have a arthritis flare up in a knee last year (didn't know what it was) and that was the result of sitting at the computer (as well as having a long commute in the car), without giving the knee proper support.

    Solution is to get up and walk around every hour or so and to do regular walks outside during an exercise period.

    Artists absolutely need to remember that our bodies are breaking down when we are stagnant at work. Get out and enjoy the rest of life as well.
  • whats_true
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    whats_true polycounter lvl 15
    I have a cup of water that I sip on and refil everytime its empty. this results in multiple get ups form me. Ive never had any wrist problems or strains. I think the biggest issue is haveing a PC back, were your hunched over the table. Its really bad for your back if your not sitting up straight with good posture.
  • marks
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    marks greentooth
    katana wrote: »
    The only time i have a wrist issue is when the elbow is unsupported. When I work with my entire forearm on the table, it's less of an issue.

    Yeah, this.

    It also means you can rest on your elbows while typing - keeping your wrists off the keyboard/table while typing a lot does wonders I've found - essentially keeping your hands flat like you're supposed to when you play piano if that makes sense.
  • AlexLeighton
    whats_true wrote: »
    I have a cup of water that I sip on and refil everytime its empty. this results in multiple get ups form me. Ive never had any wrist problems or strains. I think the biggest issue is haveing a PC back, were your hunched over the table. Its really bad for your back if your not sitting up straight with good posture.

    I do this as well, I'm always drinking water, so I get up to refill at least once an hour. Probably makes me use the washroom more than average but I don't think it hurts. I also have a dog, so at least when I'm at home she comes and gets me moving every so often.
  • cptSwing
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    cptSwing polycounter lvl 11
    personally i find that lifting weights, even as inconsistently as i do it, helps me steel both wrists and back against the dangers lurking around our office chairs. i like deadlifts for lower back and core, and a couple of other free weight exercises, keeping it simple basically.
  • Avanthera
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    Avanthera polycounter lvl 10
    I may try to start using my wacom for everything... though I've never had a problem with pain. I always sit super low and with my chest to the table, that way my entire forearm is supported, and since my keyboard is so far back on the desk, I have room for my wacom in between me and the keyboard.
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