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3ds Max 2013 shipping!

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Just like every year, it takes days to process all the millions of Adsk subscription users through SAP. It will always take days and users will always see a delta between when some see it and others see it. Don't panic, be patient and wait a few days. If it isn't there after 5 business days, then start panicking.

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  • e_x
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    e_x polycounter lvl 18
    Hey Ken, thanks for the heads-up. Are there any sort of fix notes anywhere?
  • System
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    System admin
    Thanks for the info, Ken.

    Any word on an ETA for us lowly students? I'm eagerly awaiting 2013 so I can finally update my OS (using Maya on OS X).
  • kenpimentel
    Fix notes for the 511 legacy bugs? Nothing public. The bug fix notes are filled with proprietary data, codenames, and meaningless references. It would all have to be cleaned up before public consumption.

    If you mean release notes, then yes, they are part of the release and will summarize some of the bug fixes (I think).
  • kenpimentel
    I think for students, your release comes about a month or so later. Not exactly sure when. It isn't a different build (I'm pretty sure), but it has to be posted by the EDU team.
  • e_x
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    e_x polycounter lvl 18
    Fix notes for the 511 legacy bugs? Nothing public. The bug fix notes are filled with proprietary data, codenames, and meaningless references. It would all have to be cleaned up before public consumption.

    If you mean release notes, then yes, they are part of the release and will summarize some of the bug fixes (I think).

    I was more wondering about fixes with CAT. Any info on that? I've already looked through the release notes.
  • kenpimentel
    I'm told we hit the big ones and some legacy ones (like the scaling bug that has been there forever). I've also asked for more detail and for this site to get updated:
    http://3dsmaxfeedback.autodesk.com/forums/136620-publiccatbugsandrequests
  • e_x
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    e_x polycounter lvl 18
    Thanks Ken. It's just hard to decide to upgrade when there's no specifics on what's been fixed.
  • kenpimentel
    I know that our analysis was that we fixed the ones we could reproduce and that were most severed - but that is all relative. What we think is severe might not be what you think is severed. We might not have fixed the one bug that gives you the most pain. I'd wait for the trial download and try that. There is a CAT forum for bugs, but it hasn't been updated with the shipping status yet.
    http://3dsmaxfeedback.autodesk.com/forums/136620-publiccatbugsandrequests/status/329521
  • System
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    System admin
    I think for students, your release comes about a month or so later. Not exactly sure when. It isn't a different build (I'm pretty sure), but it has to be posted by the EDU team.

    Thanks Ken!
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    Any word on improvements to viewport canvas, and can Nitrous do unfiltered textures yet or do you still need to switch to Direct3D to get that?
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    IS THE TANGENT BASIS SYNCED? DO NITROUS' SHADER SUPPORT STILL SUCK?
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Is there any way to import UI from 2012 ? Max 2013 uses different file types and I would like to import at least my quad menu. Using Load Custom UI Scheme max changes only the icons...
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Custom keyboard shortcuts are useless too from prev versions of max... It was necessary to change files with which max handles UI ? Keyboard shortcuts prev : *.kbd , now: *.kbdx ...
  • r_fletch_r
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    r_fletch_r polycounter lvl 9
    Computron wrote: »
    IS THE TANGENT BASIS SYNCED? DO NITROUS' SHADER SUPPORT STILL SUCK?

    No need to be rude:poly122: Ken mentioned in an earlier thread that the dx shader issue has not yet been sorted.

    for synced Tangent basis use the DX9 viewport.
  • Scruples
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    Scruples polycounter lvl 10
    That was hardly rude, both answers are not stated in any of the release notes so they are either omitted or they never fixed the issues, which would be unacceptable. Anyone know what they mean by improved pivot point support?.
  • r_fletch_r
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    r_fletch_r polycounter lvl 9
    Scruples wrote: »
    That was hardly rude, both answers are not stated in any of the release notes so they are either omitted or they never fixed the issues, which would be unacceptable. Anyone know what they mean by improved pivot point support?.

    I'd be pissed if someone wrote me a message like that. Ken's here posting and listening to our feedback personally, it'd be nice if folks could atleast take the time to write decent posts and drop the attitude. Were a community of professional artists not a high-school.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Cool they added strokes... but if you check 'use middle mouse for strokes' navigation stops working (If you use maya navigation style), oh and the strokes works so slow that they are kinda useless... Every new feature in new release of 3ds max is like 'I bought you new carpet and its awesome... but I took a huge dump on it'. Performance seems a bit better though...
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    r_fletch_r wrote: »
    No need to be rude:poly122: Ken mentioned in an earlier thread that the dx shader issue has not yet been sorted.

    for synced Tangent basis use the DX9 viewport.

    Sorry about that. :(

    So is the default dx9 shader is synced now or are you talking about something like xoliul or 3 point qualified normal shaders?
  • kenpimentel
    I do not believe any work went into the DX9 driver recently. We're focused on trying to figure out how to solve the shader problem for Nitrous. Xoliul has graciously offered to help us. No schedule/plan/commitment at this time.

    I'm sorry, I'm not an expert on this feature, I know we tried to fix some things in this area about a year ago (after 2012 shipped), but not sure how it ended in the release. Just download the trial and let us know.
  • kenpimentel
    MrOneTwo wrote: »
    Cool they added strokes... but if you check 'use middle mouse for strokes' navigation stops working (If you use maya navigation style), oh and the strokes works so slow that they are kinda useless... Every new feature in new release of 3ds max is like 'I bought you new carpet and its awesome... but I took a huge dump on it'. Performance seems a bit better though...

    It would be good to get a video of what you're seeing posted so that others could see if they have the same problem. Could be a hw/sw config issue. I doubt you're running on "certified hw"...
  • kenpimentel
    MrOneTwo wrote: »
    Custom keyboard shortcuts are useless too from prev versions of max... It was necessary to change files with which max handles UI ? Keyboard shortcuts prev : *.kbd , now: *.kbdx ...

    I heard someone got these to load on CgSociety. I can't remember if they simply renamed the extension or what.
  • kenpimentel
    Any word on improvements to viewport canvas, and can Nitrous do unfiltered textures yet or do you still need to switch to Direct3D to get that?

    You guys ask tough questions! I know there were some small improvements and bug fixes, nothing stupendous. We currently have a known gamma issue that is causing banding. I don't know if that is what you're talking about.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Tried with changing extensions. No luck. I just rebinded those hotkeys...

    kenpimentel - What do you mean by 'certified hw' (hw - hardware ?). From what I tested if I use maya navigation style and check 'use middle mouse button for strokes' the navigation completely doesn't work. Strokes work but they draw this 3 by 3 square to register stroke. It takes about a second to register the stroke and act accordingly. Sometimes this 3x3 grid doesn't want to go away. I suppose this square should come up when you use the stroke (I dont really know why would you do it though...we dont have to see how max handles interpretation of the stroke).Cool addition and I hope that I'm just doing something wrong.

    For now I'm really happy with this release. Nothing ground breaking but I think Autodesk now focuses on stuff that matters.

    Ohhh and I really appreciate that someone from Autodesk keeps in touch with community.
  • kenpimentel
    I'm sorry, I don't know the feature. Unless someone else on this forum can confirm what you're seeing or sees something different, we're both in the dark.

    Glad you're enjoying the release. It's back to basics, but we needed it. Got other stuff cooking that I'm pretty sure you'll like - I think I saw some UV tool fixes in progress and a move to more frequent updates from us.
  • r_fletch_r
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    r_fletch_r polycounter lvl 9
    Computron wrote: »
    Sorry about that. :(

    So is the default dx9 shader is synced now or are you talking about something like xoliul or 3 point qualified normal shaders?

    no worries, yeah dx9 is synced you need to activate it in 2011. Xoliul's shader does it for you so far as i know.
    http://xoliulshader.com/help/index.htm#page=Qualified_Normals_Toggler.htm
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Am I the only one experiencing an extremely long install time on this ? This is crazy ... Unpacking the download and installing the demo is almost taking an hour (if not more, not sure), and that's on a SSD drive. What is going on here ? It makes me feel like the setup is messing around with my system and I'm not sure if I like the idea haha.

    [edit] On my first installation attempt it froze at 7 of 12 remaining ; second time at 9 of 10 remaining. So far I have been unable to install it and it slowed my system down to a crawl in both cases. Hnnngh! Why so bloated ??
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    pior wrote: »
    Am I the only one experiencing an extremely long install time on this ? This is crazy ... Unpacking the download and installing the demo is almost taking an hour (if not more, not sure), and that's on a SSD drive. What is going on here ? It makes me feel like the setup is messing around with my system and I'm not sure if I like the idea haha.

    [edit] On my first installation attempt it froze at 7 of 12 remaining ; second time at 9 of 10 remaining. So far I have been unable to install it and it slowed my system down to a crawl in both cases. Hnnngh! Why so bloated ??

    I had a similar experience on my ssd system, but it was that way for 2012 as well.

    Anyone else figure out how to get the skylight IBL to work in nitrous? Its really diluted/dull for me. (I plugged in a few different hi-res HDRIs into the sky color slot in the skylight in realistic mode) It doesn't help to adjust the materials glossiness either. :\
    EDIT: Figured it out, Couldn't find any mention of this in the documentation but you have to set your viewport background to use the environment map or else it doesn't reflect anything. It does not do any per pixel glosiness/blurring of the reflection. :(

    Also, progressive display seems to take forever now to refine the AO, and the edge anti-aliasing is significantly worse than 2012.

    I love the new render mode, especially faceted, great for evaluating edges and topo.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Alright, tried it again this time on XPpro64, with another drive of the exact same model. Install was successful and zippy - something like 15 minutes. So there seems to be a weird loop that the installer gets itself into under win7.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    WOAH haha it looks very, very ugly! I wasn't really familiar with the new look, what a mess... (still using 2009 at work, nice and clean!)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    I like the new look. (Although it should be a little less cluttered with customization) Do a lot of employers still only offer Max 2009? Are you given the option to use other versions/softwares?
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    I installed it on win7 64 and it took about 20 minutes. Maybe little bit more. I'm still waiting for merging Ribbon with the modify tab. Its almost the same functionality in two places. I'm happy with the way Autodesk refines 3ds max now. Time for some testing!
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Well I suppose it depends on the studio, wether or not it is the main app for a given pipeline and exporters, and so on ... One thing for sure : the license server for 2009 still runs, that's good!

    I am just envious of the viewport canvas and the mud link but that's okay :)
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    I found another weird thing. If you use maya navigation style you can't subtract from selection since subtracting is under alt (with maya navigation style alt + left click = rotate view). If you switch to maya adding/subtracting style you loose ability to select loop of polygons by shift + left click ( shift + left click = adding to selection). Is it possible to have both ?
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    You can now double click a edge to select it's loop.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah but its not the same as selecting poly loop.
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    I'm guessing waiting for a SP to come out is our main incentive now?
  • jeremiah_bigley
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    jeremiah_bigley polycounter lvl 15
    Just wanted to say that I use a tablet for max and the CTRL + ALT + Middle Click Zoom seemed to be screwed up now in 2013. It doesn't zoom as far as before and in some cases is doesn't go hardly anywhere.

    Just in the Nitrous viewport though. Kinda frustrating. Looks like I wont be using Nitrous once again.
  • Yury
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    Yury polycounter lvl 8
    Does any one else has Nitrous viewport performance issue with high poly models in 2013?
    I hava 2 millions polygons model that I made in 3ds max 2012 and it's working fine in any mode with 30 and more FPS on my machine. But When I load the same model in 3ds max 2013 I have only 1 FPS and I can't even move the camera. If I switch to shaded only mode it's fast, but if I switch to wireframe mode or shaded + edged faces it's droping to 1 FPS instantly! Tried updating my graphic card drivers and it didn't help

    This is max 2012
    2012.jpg

    Same scene in max 2013
    2013.jpg
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Does your model have back faced culling turned on? The release notes mentioned performance unissued withy this and wireframe. Did you install the service pack?

    Oh and nice model.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    I found that objects with Edit Poly modifier give terrible performance when Editable Poly works great even with really dense meshes.
  • Yury
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    Yury polycounter lvl 8
    Thank you, Computron! Yeah I have installed the official update from Autodesk's web site and I have back faced culling turned on. I remember they stated that tehre's some viewport performance issues, but I didn't think it was that bad. Well I guess I have to stay with 2012 for now until the first Service Pack for max 2013. Hopefully they will fix the problem *shrug*
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Shift + drag edge doesn't work with maya selection mode too...

    Pretty much everything new from maya brakes something in max.
  • TnT
    MrOneTwo wrote: »
    Custom keyboard shortcuts are useless too from prev versions of max... It was necessary to change files with which max handles UI ? Keyboard shortcuts prev : *.kbd , now: *.kbdx ...


    I actually figured this out by visiting a Bulgarian website. What you need to do is go to load custom and type in "*.kbd" in the field. Select your .kbd file now and it should load up. Now save as a .kbdx and you should be good to go.
  • cptSwing
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    cptSwing polycounter lvl 11
    MrOneTwo wrote: »
    If you switch to maya adding/subtracting style you loose ability to select loop of polygons by shift + left click ( shift + left click = adding to selection).

    Shift + drag edge doesn't work with maya selection mode too...


    So. Annoying.

    Also, hah, don't switch back. All your custom hotkeys will be reset, not just the mouse interaction mode.
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