Panzer model-Feedback needed!!!!!!!

matthewjohnson398

I am looking for general feedack regarding my 3ds work. Any feedback would be hugely appreciated.

High poly model-verts: 5 mill

German Panzer tank-reference image
Low poly render-verts: 290,000
I know the count is too high at the moment.
I was wondering if any one knew what current games engines this model would be able to run in( if any).
Again, any feedback would be hugely appreciated, on both the high and low poly render.

dii

You've got too many unified meshes in your lopoly I'd suggest using floating geometry a lot more than you are for a model like this.. Your main problem though is that 95%+ of your geo looks like its in the treads also which you are going to want to simplify a lot.

You could probably get that into any modern game engine, whether or not it'd be a good idea is a different story.

Xelan101

I agree with dii the tri count needs to go way way down in the treads/wheel. And floaters are definitely your friends. Not only does it lower tri count but 90% of the time it also greatly simplifies the modeling as well.

Also it may be good to include tri counts rather that vert counts I know that 8-10k tris is a decent budget for a prop vehicle but if this thing is meant for a player vehicle you could maybe go as high as 15 or 20k I'd guess depending on what else needs to be in the scene with it at a given time. However I'm not entirely sure how those translate to vert counts. But even if we're assuming 3 verts per tri that's still a 130,000 tri model which like dii said could be handled by a modern game engine, but likely with very little else on the screen making it inefficient for an actual game asset.

Paul Pepera

I do not understand what I am looking at here.

Did you model that color render of that Panzer model? Or are you simply using it for reference. It is so completely different to your low poly. And that model itself is loaded to inaccuracies and you SHOULD NOT be using that for reference.

Until you answer this I am only going to crit the wireframe meshes you posted.

You are attempting to model a Panzer Mk IV, and your model is full of inaccuracies. The turret, the gun, the muzzle, the hull, the glacis plate, the tracks, the wheels, the mud guards, the hull machine gun ball mount, the driver slits - pretty much everything - is incorrect.


You need to look at actual photographs of this tank - there are several examples that have survived and are on display in museums that you can derive great reference images from. Examples: http://www.history-of-germany.com/index.php?scid=sinsheimPanzerArmor&page=6& , http://www.johkaz.co.uk/panzer.html (though be careful as there are some Panzer III pictures mixed in there)


You need to get good quality orthographic schematics to make sure you nail the shapes, proportions, and detail placement. Examples: http://hobbyhavoc.com/forum/index.php?topic=217.0 , http://www.textures.es3dstudios.com/blueprint/Pz.%20Kpfw.%20IV.gif


You need to look at historical photographs and footage to understand how this tank looked in the context of battle. Example: http://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/panzer-ivf.jpg

You need to read about the history of this vehicle and understand all its variants. Many versions of this tank were produced by Germany during the war. A single bolt, or muzzle, or wheel, can be the difference between two totally different tanks that severed on totally different fronts during totally different time periods. Educate yourself on your subject matter.

I understand you are new to this stuff but I can not stress how important an obsessive attention to detail is when modeling something like this. If you are going to tackle a subject matter such as this you need to respect the history of this machine and that respect should be reflected in your art.

matthewjohnson398

Yeah I started using floating geometry a little late into the project.
The wheels are now edited and counts have lowered.
I am yet to low poly the tank tracks, when this has been completed im sure the poly/tri count will be dramatically lower.
Thanks for the above,
any more comments?

matthewjohnson398

Any positives perhaps?

skurmedel

You already had a thread about this, why make another?

matthewjohnson398

needed the feedback urgently

matthewjohnson398

Thanks for the comments so far, any more would be appreciated.
This is all to help improve my model and this will also greatly help me with my esay on the project.

Many thanks.

cdevens

Paul Pepera gave you some great feedback full of supporting links (check out his work, HE KNOWS HIS STUFF). I would suggest you address some of the inaccuracies that he pointed out. You have made at least 3 subsequent posts without addressing the things that were pointed out to you. I am not sure what type of feedback you are looking for.

Xoliul

matthewjohnson398 wrote: »

Any positives perhaps?

I'm a bit bothered by how you come across here...
As a few people are carefuly trying to say, there's a whole lot wrong with your model. If you ask me, i'd start over completely. You however seem to fish for positive comments and don't seem to fussed about actually applying some of the feedback given...

To try and put you a bit on your way, I wrote an article about what Paul says:
http://www.laurenscorijn.com/articles/importance-of-reference

matthewjohnson398

This is all to help me with my essay, I will upload latest work tomorrow. I appreciate all feedback currently given and I am certainly taking everything mentioned into account!

matthewjohnson398

Does anyone know if the low poly model will produce a suitable normal map?
Many thanks

Steppenwolf

No. You need a hipoly to bake a normal map for your model. And i wouldn't start with something so complex to learn the process. Model and texture some small props first.

Make one step at a time. It's easier to fix problems and learn from mistakes when working on simple stuff as a beginner.

Hang10

Agre with Steppen, start small and work you're way up. Until you do this you'll make costly mistakes on larger assets and just discourage yourself.

matthewjohnson398

Thanks guys, will be uploading more today.

matthewjohnson398

In reply to the first couple of comments.
My polycount: 130,000
verts: 130,000

Steppenwolf

130k is way too high for a low poly model. I would estimate for a game 12-15k is reasonable for a drivable tank or 6-8k for a static scenery prop (+/- always depending on the game and engine).

However for a hipoly your tank isn't detailed enough and too hard edged. It's necessary that you learn subdivision modeling instead of just chamfering some edges here and there. Otherwise you will never get nice normal maps out of it.

dii

It doesn't look like you changed anything...

cdevens

You should really set up some reference planes so you can match shapes and placement. You have all of the bottom wheels evenly spaced where as the orthographic views that Paul Pepera linked you show them in slight groups of two with the top wheels centered over each set and the furthest to the rear slightly lower. The front gear for the treads is larger and higher than the back, you have them the same size and the front one lower than the back one. Also, if you want feedback on changes, indicate what has been changed if it isn't obvious. The angles between the two sets of shots are so different that it is really difficult to tell what has been changed. Listening to feedback is not the same as applying it. Set up the blueprints, make sure the blockout and silhouette are nailed, then start detailing. Like Steppenwolf said, you need your high poly to be smoothed (sub-d), you have almost no bevels and your model will bot bake well. It would be nice if you set up some reference planes and posted some screenshots with a partially transparent material or wireframe over the blueprints. That way people can see that you are matching things up and fixing your proportion/accuracy issues. You started with a tough subject for your first model to learn the workflow.