Round 3: Female Character

AMC

Hey guys, its been a while but this is my first ever female character, I thought I'd stop at this point to make sure I'm going in the right directions. Any tips or pointers on things I should look our for when modelling a female compared to a male model would be much appreciated.

Reference





Model





So far I need to fix the groin area and her bum, but if you see something else let me know

nyx702

She needs bewbs! Just kidding

Looks like you are following the shape well. You're probably going to need a loop next to the center line for her breast and for the front of the leg.

This is slightly off topic but where did you snag that reference?

ericdigital

Just as a note your reference was taken relatively up close and it is giving you a bit of lens distortion. Make sure to double check with other sources that your proportions are correct.


Try to keep your edge flow evenly spaced as you already have a few to many loops in the groin area.

almighty_gir

like ericdigital says, try to keep your edgeloops a bit more evenly spaced. use references like this: http://pioroberson.com/svgalleries/piorfemale/piorfemale.html

also, remember that because the camera captures a perspective that isn't reflected in the front/side viewports, trying to match EVERYTHING up in the viewports like that will and up with a very blocky and badly formed mesh.

try to spend the majority of your time in the perspective viewport, looking at the model in 3d, as opposed to looking at it in 2d from different angles. i find it's helpful to set up your viewports so that you have the front, left, and perspective viewports all active, like this:

AMC

Thanks for the info guys, you're right about the reference, I took it myself and it was very very close. The tripod is actually on the top of the stairs leading down to her front door. I didn't have very many options; I did however talk a couple dozen photos so this isn't the only reference I'm talking.
I'll delete or spread out some of the edge loops around her crotch, I did it mostly because I was following a tutorial and that's what they did.
My viewports are also set up like that.

For future reference, what is the optimal distant to take reference for a model, and at what height?

nyx702

From my experience it's better to be further away and zoom in. I am not sure if I could give you an exact range. Maybe 10ft? Depends on your lens. Zooming doesn't cause as much lens distortion and you get less perspective. This gets more tricky with less space and lower quality cameras Outside in front of the garage door works great. Long driveway with huge blank background!

I also shoot lower than eye level so there is less perspective on the feet. This is a huge pet peeve of mine.

Fred2303

nyx702 wrote: »

From my experience it's better to be further away and zoom in. I am not sure if I could give you an exact range. Maybe 10ft? Depends on your lens. Zooming doesn't cause as much lens distortion and you get less perspective. This gets more tricky with less space and lower quality cameras Outside in front of the garage door works great. Long driveway with huge blank background!

I also shoot lower than eye level so there is less perspective on the feet. This is a huge pet peeve of mine.

thats really good to know! thanks !!

almighty_gir

like i said, spending the majority of your time in perspective mode is the most important thing. i can already tell you're suffering from not doing it.

look at the side view, see how many vertical loops there are? but as you rotate round to the front there's a giant plane, i'd hazard a guess that the back will be similar.
by working in perspective mode you'll be able to see how wierd it looks, and you'll be able to distribute those edges a bit better.

btw, ask your gf/sister/housemate if they mind being saved to my reference folder. all reference is good reference!

disanski

Nice start man. I would say 50 mm would be probably the best for taking pictures from that kind. Even if you don't have that kind of lens and you only have P&S camera you can zoom in to 50 and then frame your model and take the shots. I think the camera in zbrush is using 50 mm lens as well and the one in max is probably near that range as well so it will be as close as possible when you view your model in your perspective viewports.

AMC

I use my friends Sony SLR, and you're totally right, after I finished following the tutorial I was wondering why I needed so many verts on the sides but not as many in the front. I'll definitley fix that, and I'll ask my friend if she'll mind if you can use the reference. Like I said before I have a bunch of photos of her include face, feet, hands, close up of a tattoo she has on her side for texturing, with her hair down etc.

ericdigital

I'd agree with dinsanki and shooting with a 50mm from 10-15 feet with a bit of zoom. You probably can find more definite solutions poking around in photography sites about the most effective way to get an ortho effect though.

It's always beneficial to get a sub to 3d.sk for a month and mass download as many images as you can as well since they are pretty good about limiting distortion in their photos!

AMC

So I've evened out the verts to make them more evenly spaced; but like you guys said I've encountered a few problems because of the perspective and I just need to know which route I should go.





I know because of the perspective her thigh is really long and her calf is really short. I just need to know, should I bring her knee up and make balance our her calf and thigh, or should I bring her ankle down and make it her calf as long as her thigh.

Also I've run into this problem and its mostly because I'm a stickler for my reference.





Now I've matched the verts perfectly to my reference to according to my reference thats how far she thigh sticks out, but as you can see it makes her thighs look like they are on steroids or something. Should I ignore my reference and make it work, or am I doing something wrong, I can't figure it out.

Rockley Bonner

thats were your artistic eye comes in my freind.

ericdigital

Your side view isn't perfectly straight. I mean just the fact you can see both legs should give you enough indication that being a stickler for your reference is ultimately going to hurt you. Exactly like RJ said this is where you need to look at things with a careful eye and begin to interpret how the shapes flow together.

AMC

K I feel like there isn't much for me to do for the body, so if you could just double check my proportions, and I've never done breats in 3D before, so if if my edge flow is wrong or if they are sitting wrong let me know.

nyx702

The loop that connects to the body looks to stretched out to me. The faces are getting fairly nonuniform. I would sale that loop up and maybe add another where that one used to be. Maybe Relax all the verts on the bewb to average them out as well. There is a 5 sided poly in the profile where it connects to the boob just FYI.

Donavonyoung

You really should get some reference that has been taken properly. The perspective you have her at is really going to throw you off. Also you have way too much tessalation within the hips, it is too compressed, and your knee geo is pretty crooked there. I would really look at the images of the topology upleaded earlier and try to follow that very closely

almighty_gir

okay....

you should get her to take a side reference with her arms up (like the front) or, take a front reference with her arms down (like the side pic). the reason being, although you may not realise it just that one difference in the arm position actually changes a lot of muscle positions around the chest and back, as well as the collarbone etc.

the way you've modeled the breasts looks like it's following the bra, not the breast itself... even in a bra a breast will still be rounded and soft underneath... when have you ever seen a pair of tits with a square shape?

all that aside... you're jumping into too much detail too early. the goal is to define as much shape as possible with as little geometry. by adding more and more edges you're actually defining less and less as time goes on, and that's why you're not getting the results you're after.

AMC

Thanks for the info guys, I saved all my steps so I'll jump back a few iterations and work on my forms again. I do have reference with her arms up and down. I know I'm should be using the same pose for both, which I would have, put I couldn't get them to line up perfectly without distorting the images.
I realize now that you said it that her breasts do look square, which is probably because I extruded faces and then tried to round them. Should I delete the faces, and extrude that way to maintain the overall shape?
I really appreciate all the feedback and support, I really want to make this look amazing.

johnicus

AMC wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys, I saved all my steps so I'll jump back a few iterations and work on my forms again. I do have reference with her arms up and down. I know I'm should be using the same pose for both, which I would have, put I couldn't get them to line up perfectly without distorting the images.
I realize now that you said it that her breasts do look square, which is probably because I extruded faces and then tried to round them. Should I delete the faces, and extrude that way to maintain the overall shape?
I really appreciate all the feedback and support, I really want to make this look amazing.

Did you take pictures with your reference model's arms at more of a 45 degree angle? Like the image that almighty_gir posted? I have heard a lot that it is better to use more of an "A shape" for arms, which causes less bulging around the shoulders when the model is rigged for animation.

AMC

Yes I did, I was trained to put the arms down, but I always found working in the armpits very cumbersome, so I model the arms up, then move them to the 45 degree angle at the end.

AMC

Hey guys, sorry I've been busy and funny enough its been a little tough trying to make my models breasts look right but I think I got it this time, tell me what you guys think.

almighty_gir

looking much better than they did man. way better.

AMC

Just finishing off the arms and the legs. I know the legs need more geometry, I just need your opinions on if the proportions look right before I flesh out the rest of the legs.

almighty_gir

DAWN OF WAR!!!

AMC

So here is the start of the face, just making sure i have the base edge flow right before I start adding detail.

Snader

There isn't really any "flow" in there. You only have one proper loop, the one around the eyes. You need a bunch more in other places where skin folds and stretches.

Generally, you should have at least one around the eye, one across both eyes, one around the mouth and one around the mouth/nose. Here's just a few possibilities:

AMC

Thanks for the reference, I know about the mask and mouth part, its in between and around that that I get confused

almighty_gir

if you check the link in my sig, i made a basemesh you could use for reference with regard to face loops.

it's not perfect, but it could give you a more "hands on" guide to loops. i also wrote up how and why i placed them where i did.

AMC

I'll totally take a look at it. here is what i've done with the fixes so far. I fleshed out the eyes and lips so I could get more accurate shapes.



thanks again guys for all the help.

AMC

Working on just fleshing out the head and neck.

AMC

I think I'm done the head, I don't know any other ways to make it look more like her. I think I got the shapes just right. Anyways, if you guys have any thoughts I'm always down to hear them.
Also, does anybody know any good tutorials on modeling ears?

PyrZern

I would really suggest a few more start-overs for her face. If a female character doesn't appear attractive, the whole point is moot.

GabeLamas

Overall so far the edge flow for the body is coming around nicely. The edge loops starting from the neck upwards to the face could use some work. The references posted earlier on this thread should do fine. For doing characters in 3ds max this is a pretty ballsy attempt at human anatomy, and it'e not too shabby of a start.

Pancakes

hmmm, yeah this is really difficult what you are attempting to do, at least to me. If it were me trying to make that model, I wouldn't start out trying to exactly follow the reference so much. I would get the general shape with very simple geometry and make sure it was flowing well, showing volumes well, and therefore easy to edit later. Then after I did that I would follow the reference more closely. But trying to put all that detail in as you go, is not something I would do personally.

but it's going pretty well for you gl hf