^ yeah, i'm curious too. It seems counter-productive to be honest. It looked super tedious!!! and the funny and odd thing to me was the use of crazybump to add to the hand painted one? why not just keep the one you generated with the Height? i would use Ndo for handpainting them, if anything.
katana - I will work more on the foliage, I agree it is not really convincing right now haha. Also thanks for the idea of the support beams. As for getting out there, right now I am waiting to hear back about a possible internship - if that doesn't work out, then yes, I will be on the hunt for work muahaha. Thanks so much for the encouraging comments about my portfolio
Haiasi - Actually, the chair does have an AO bake on it - if it's not apparent enough, I suppose I could blur it out some more, double it up, or paint more in myself.
njc6425, Razorb, Alberto Rdrgz - Regarding the normal map, it is something I am learning in class, so it was required for the past two textures, and for the next two I will be making (metal, and something else of our choice). Although the process is long and sometimes tedious, I has helped me to understand normal maps better in general - before it was just arbitrary rainbow colors to me ahaha. If anything, I think it will help me to catch and fix normal map mistakes in the future. After this class, I will probably use a combination of height map to normal map generation, and straight-up painting (depending on the texture). A few studios in my area use this technique of hand-painting their normal maps, so I figure it can't hurt to practice
bummzack - Ah, I agree, I'll add some support to the back of the chair too - thanks for the paintover!
imperator_dk - This was for my texturing class, and my teacher's specs were that they need to be 1024's - but I agree these could do with much less, like 512 or 256.
Thanks again for all the feedback and comments guys, it's been super helpful - I'll post an update on the chair soon with spec and normals applied, and my first pass on a metal tileable coming up.
For what it's worth, I like it better without the normal map. Like Stromberg says, the normal map makes it pop; but popping doesn't sound like an admirable quality for a floor. The only thing it has to communicate in a game is, after all, that it's flat, and it shouldn't detract from objects and spaces that do actually have meaningful depth.
I also noticed the normal map adds bunch of noise and I don't think anybody would want that, I can see normal map used in a good way just like that, but it sort of ruins all this fantastic hand painting, anyway it does look fantastic as it is.
Yeah, Jessica, your eye for painted textures is really amazing, and your application of it not only continues to improve, but is astounding for some one of your experience level. While I think adding the normal maps is an interesting angle, the real-world application of it is not very common. Off the top of my head, WoW, Sims, and Dungeon Defenders are just three games I can think of that rely entirely on the diffuse to give the impression that a normal map is present.
Keep going, I subscribe to all of your threads. You have some amazing stuff to show off.
Looks great Jessica! Really like what you did with the diffuse. The normal process is done really well. I forgot how tedious that method is. You should try doing a height map and converting it next time. Just to compare.
The legs of the chair need the wood grain going vertically. It throws the chair off a lot with it going horizontally. It looks like a papercraft chair or something. Otherwise the chair is looking awesome. Just watch the contrast on the grain in each plank. It's a lot busier than your concept. Can't wait to see it finished. It's really coming together.
Looking great, i like it with the normal map and without but the 'shadows' created by the normal map just seem to detract from the texture ? However it still looks good and the effect of the normal map is awesome, maybe better for a wall or something do you have the link to the normal map palette you used? I kinda wanna give this a give this a go...unfortunatly we dont learn it in my course
Love what's going on here. Your technique is great.
I have a request, but only if it's not too much to ask. Could you make a quick animated turnaround of your texture with the normals on? It might help us see how your normals could affect the texture in a game environment.
I think you painted way too much light/shadow into your diffuse (and specular) floor texture.
I'd really suggest avoiding painting a lot of lighting information into objects that get normal mapped unless you can safely assume it's going to be lit from a certain direction. A chair or character for example is likely going to be mostly top lit so a little painted shadow in the undersides wont hurt it much.
A floor on the other hand is probably going to be lit from many different directions and the lighting information you painted into it is just going to be fighting the lighting when the texture gets lit from the opposite side. All you're really doing is burning out the shadows when the lighting is consistent with the painted texture (as you can see in your gif), and washing them out when it's lit from the opposite direction.
When you start painting lighting into an object that is going to get normal mapped you're essentially defeating the purpose of having a normal map in the first place, which is to ensure the texture gets lit correctly.
The normal map is there to control the lighting. Ideally speaking your diffuse texture should have little to no lighting information, possibly very faint directional lighting to keep it looking like it has depth when there's no lightsource (shouldn't happen if your scene is lit correctly but still) and some subtle AO (because that's expensive to solve in realtime)
^^ this why I dont normal map hand painted textures. They start too look too real and technical to feel all artsy. It gets to the point where you might aswell start with a real photo instead of nothing
Too real? You mean like Team Fortress 2 and Orcs Must Die?
It doesn't matter if you use normals or not, even handpainted textures with no normal map need to have a consistent light source or it's not going to look good.
just cos you like the wow doesnt mean theres no place for decent hand paimnted normals...
but totally agree with dll's statement... if you are using normals to do lighting do night fight against it in the diffuse.... your diffuse should be just that diffused light info...
this basically goes the more lighting information you get from the engine the less you put in the albedo i know alot of artists who still put in too much lighting info into their textures out of habit...
you have per pixel lighting DONT put it in the the pixels (unless its purely directional and you want AO, but you can put that in textures too old)
I didnt say not to do them. Its just when you use normal maps you might as well not even paint the lighting into the bricks in the first place - but that was how I imagined it before I saw this thread. I imagined normal maps on hand painted textures would result in a artificially looking flat sheen but I couldn't have been more wrong, it looks really cool to be honest. Are there nay games out there right now that do hand painting like allods or wow + normal maps?
Wow, the rock and wood texture are coming out really great. The floor with the normal map is very interesting, I dont think ive seen that done before. Keep up the great work!
Really interesting and helpful comments guys, and much thanks for the paintovers too - they make it really clear. Here is another texture then with the lighting painted straight on as opposed to from any angle - hopefully that is working better with the normal map. Critique and comments welcome!
Looks good,but please don't use jpg images anymore rather use png as hand painted texture by nature look sometimes blurry and then with jpg compression it looks even more blurred.
When you're painting metal like that, do you have any specific type of metal in mind? Any sort of reference you go off of? Or is it just your impression of what cool metal looks like?
Wow Jessica, I'm liking the normals this time with the metal. Really good stuff! As much as I enjoy the normals though, there's still something about the diffuse by itself that I love! I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.
Bigjohn - Hm no, not a specific type of metal. I gather a bunch of photo reference and then just paint whatever comes out from there; but I am probably looking at several different types of metals as I paint. Do you suggest I be more specific about my reference? How does my metal read to you?
Andy H - Thanks Andy I agree with you haha - now that I understand diffuse w/normal textures should have little to no lighting in them, I think I prefer painting diffuse-only textures; I quite enjoy having to fake the lighting!
Beautiful stuff Jessica! It's kinda hard to give critique without seeing it applied since my knowledge of handpainted textures is very limited ^^ It looks like it would tile pretty well though, very nice choice of colors.
How long did it take you to paint that texture Jessica? You seem to really crank this stuff out. I'm not sure I can offer any critiques, all I can do is praise... Haha! I love being able to pick out the brush strokes in your textures.
Selaznog xD your language settings are hilarious haha. Here it is applied to a plane with spec and normals (diffuse still needs all kinds of tightening up/rendering out though). But anyway this is how it's working now! Berrays!! I've been critiqued that the normals are too strong and creating overly steep angles, so I will be pulling the opacity back I think - more critique and comments welcome :]:
Painting all these textures tempts me to tackle another little enviro soon...
Great texture for a bush but not for a flat ground texture.
The small and great fruits give a enormous deep and your great ones are over all leafs was is very unnatural. For a bush very good, but for a ground strange.
You killed this one. You're really good at constantly making moar awesome. What's the enviro you're planning? Let's see a concept. I think you're making it up.
Cibo - 'tis real though! I looked at lots of reference for ground cover and there is a lot more depth than I expected. Here is my main reference:
The reason I chose to do a ground texture with more depth is that the last one I did (grass) was pretty flat and disappointing haha. Pooey grass texture in question (middle of top row):
If I were to use this in an environment however, I'd keep it in small patchy areas, probably under and around trees. Not like a whole field of ground-cover, because yeah I see how that would be very strange xD Thanks for the idea of making this into a bush though, I hadn't thought of that :0
Jeff - Thanks Well I think for my senior project I would like to do another enviro! But this time make it pretty from ALL angles. My rough idea is to take an old classical painting (from like Monet, Sargent, etc.) and use it as inspiration to make an interesting game level. I have my roots in fine art and I really love oil painting so this would be fun for me to kindof fuse into a game art project.
Could you run a cloud texture (something with a soft fall off but interesting shapes; low contrast) , through the normal map generator of choice and overlay it under the major leaves and berries.
I feel like that might give it a subtle bump that feels natural.
Jessica you have NO IDEA how happy I am this thread exsists! I will be deffinetly watching and learning, your textures were a big inspriation towards one of the pieces I chose to push for on my reel. Go Jess go!
You're painting specular highlights into the diffuse and spec maps, again ruining any purpose of using d/s/n maps. The renderer can add those white dots for you, and always at the right place - that's what those extra textures are for.
Ah yeah, I think it seems like I'm being stubborn :x But these were the specs given for this texture assignment - that I paint lighting coming from the top left into the diffuse, and have a normal map and spec map *shrug*. From here on out though (personal assignments where I do it my way xD), I will be painting diffuse-only textures because I enjoy being able to paint lighting into the diffuse itself :] Sorry for the confusion; I do understand what you are saying, and thanks very much for the demo!
Bigjohn - Hm no, not a specific type of metal. I gather a bunch of photo reference and then just paint whatever comes out from there; but I am probably looking at several different types of metals as I paint. Do you suggest I be more specific about my reference? How does my metal read to you?
Oh no, nothing like that. I wasn't trying to suggest anything. Really, I don't know shit about painting metal. But it's something I'm doing for this next character I'm working on, so I was just curious. I like the result you got, though the style is a bit too cartoony for my taste. Maybe I'll hit you up for a crit when it's ready.
Replies
Jeremy - Haha, thanks, it does get a bit tedious x_x That part is sped up 10x in the vid!!
Thanks Twoflower! I will add more AO where the chair legs meet the seat.
Curt, EiGHT, _Deadpixel_, Scythe, Fnitrox, STRIKER - Thanks guys!! :]:]
katana - I will work more on the foliage, I agree it is not really convincing right now haha. Also thanks for the idea of the support beams. As for getting out there, right now I am waiting to hear back about a possible internship - if that doesn't work out, then yes, I will be on the hunt for work muahaha. Thanks so much for the encouraging comments about my portfolio
Haiasi - Actually, the chair does have an AO bake on it - if it's not apparent enough, I suppose I could blur it out some more, double it up, or paint more in myself.
njc6425, Razorb, Alberto Rdrgz - Regarding the normal map, it is something I am learning in class, so it was required for the past two textures, and for the next two I will be making (metal, and something else of our choice). Although the process is long and sometimes tedious, I has helped me to understand normal maps better in general - before it was just arbitrary rainbow colors to me ahaha. If anything, I think it will help me to catch and fix normal map mistakes in the future. After this class, I will probably use a combination of height map to normal map generation, and straight-up painting (depending on the texture). A few studios in my area use this technique of hand-painting their normal maps, so I figure it can't hurt to practice
bummzack - Ah, I agree, I'll add some support to the back of the chair too - thanks for the paintover!
imperator_dk - This was for my texturing class, and my teacher's specs were that they need to be 1024's - but I agree these could do with much less, like 512 or 256.
Thanks again for all the feedback and comments guys, it's been super helpful - I'll post an update on the chair soon with spec and normals applied, and my first pass on a metal tileable coming up.
Keep going, I subscribe to all of your threads. You have some amazing stuff to show off.
The legs of the chair need the wood grain going vertically. It throws the chair off a lot with it going horizontally. It looks like a papercraft chair or something. Otherwise the chair is looking awesome. Just watch the contrast on the grain in each plank. It's a lot busier than your concept. Can't wait to see it finished. It's really coming together.
I have a request, but only if it's not too much to ask. Could you make a quick animated turnaround of your texture with the normals on? It might help us see how your normals could affect the texture in a game environment.
I'd really suggest avoiding painting a lot of lighting information into objects that get normal mapped unless you can safely assume it's going to be lit from a certain direction. A chair or character for example is likely going to be mostly top lit so a little painted shadow in the undersides wont hurt it much.
A floor on the other hand is probably going to be lit from many different directions and the lighting information you painted into it is just going to be fighting the lighting when the texture gets lit from the opposite side. All you're really doing is burning out the shadows when the lighting is consistent with the painted texture (as you can see in your gif), and washing them out when it's lit from the opposite direction.
When you start painting lighting into an object that is going to get normal mapped you're essentially defeating the purpose of having a normal map in the first place, which is to ensure the texture gets lit correctly.
Picture explaining the problem.
The normal map is there to control the lighting. Ideally speaking your diffuse texture should have little to no lighting information, possibly very faint directional lighting to keep it looking like it has depth when there's no lightsource (shouldn't happen if your scene is lit correctly but still) and some subtle AO (because that's expensive to solve in realtime)
They all look great though
It doesn't matter if you use normals or not, even handpainted textures with no normal map need to have a consistent light source or it's not going to look good.
but totally agree with dll's statement... if you are using normals to do lighting do night fight against it in the diffuse.... your diffuse should be just that diffused light info...
this basically goes the more lighting information you get from the engine the less you put in the albedo i know alot of artists who still put in too much lighting info into their textures out of habit...
you have per pixel lighting DONT put it in the the pixels (unless its purely directional and you want AO, but you can put that in textures too old)
How did you go about making the normal map for the metal? Did you model in maya and paint based off it?
Andy H - Thanks Andy
Chris - Thanks! Here it is tiling:
Painting all these textures tempts me to tackle another little enviro soon...
The small and great fruits give a enormous deep and your great ones are over all leafs was is very unnatural. For a bush very good, but for a ground strange.
You killed this one. You're really good at constantly making moar awesome. What's the enviro you're planning? Let's see a concept. I think you're making it up.
- BoBo
The reason I chose to do a ground texture with more depth is that the last one I did (grass) was pretty flat and disappointing haha. Pooey grass texture in question (middle of top row):
If I were to use this in an environment however, I'd keep it in small patchy areas, probably under and around trees. Not like a whole field of ground-cover, because yeah I see how that would be very strange xD Thanks for the idea of making this into a bush though, I hadn't thought of that :0
Jeff - Thanks
Thank you BoBo! x]
Could you run a cloud texture (something with a soft fall off but interesting shapes; low contrast) , through the normal map generator of choice and overlay it under the major leaves and berries.
I feel like that might give it a subtle bump that feels natural.
Gannon - Sure thing, I will try that! Never used the cloud filter before, will have a look.
apatton - Yay! cool to hear
Oh no, nothing like that. I wasn't trying to suggest anything. Really, I don't know shit about painting metal. But it's something I'm doing for this next character I'm working on, so I was just curious. I like the result you got, though the style is a bit too cartoony for my taste. Maybe I'll hit you up for a crit when it's ready.