Halo 4 Battle Rifle (WIP)

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polycounter lvl 7
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Computron polycounter lvl 7
I started work on the Halo 4 BR a while ago.
I'm cross-posting from the WAYWO thread now that
it's got some more content.



Here is what I'm going off of:
7wUIA.png


What I have now:

i1fjoZTRR3LMM.jpg

ihCJbxNGMnRAg.jpg


Daily Progress


Day One:

ibnIAnBmPxRA3v.gif
Qxqb9.png

Day Two:

18J6U.png

Day Three:

iOCdff4aWlZf9.gif

Day Four:

Here's What I got right now, 4 days in:

osWRS.png

Look at my shitty N-Gon laden wires:

5MmKi.png

ibdDXN6pNwU3VP.gif


After a short break due to college finals, Day 5:

i1fjoZTRR3LMM.jpg

ieOnTaFJ8A40K.jpg

ihCJbxNGMnRAg.jpg

iB0np0kDe50Cc.jpg

iTmbN0wXTKdkd.jpg

First Person Shot lined up to a Frame from the latest Vidoc

iHTJQYo5XxJSG.jpg

Hit the picture limit, further progress is posted inline with the thread.

At this point, I am pretty much done with the High poly and moving on to the low poly.

Crits please!!!

Replies

  • Stromberg90
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    Stromberg90 polycounter lvl 9
    Nice work, that grip looks quite hard you did a good job on it, with that out of the way the rest should be pretty simple modeling wise.
    Looking at your clean wires and mesh flow makes me feel like a noob xD

    As for critics I am so tired that I feel drunk, but the trigger and the parts around could do with some smoother edges for the bake.

    New day new update? ;)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Tomorrow is possibly a new day.

    I really wanted to practice getting some nice topology and I am trying to completely avoid using floaters in this asset. I still don't know if I will be able to model this curve:

    ejvXT.png

    It might be better to Dynamesh and lazymouse DamStandard that shit.
  • KennyTies
    This is really awesome. I agree your mesh flow is awesome on this. Wish I could give you advice on the edge without floating that piece. Maybe trying and connect an edge to next to the symbol. I appreciate the mini animations. Keep up the great work and I cannot wait to see where this is headed.
  • ae.
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    ae. polycounter lvl 9
    really awesome work man great job!(side note: those animated gifs. are really annoying would rather see hi-rez images/wireframes)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    ae. wrote: »
    really awesome work man great job!(side note: those animated gifs. are really annoying would rather see hi-rez images/wireframes)

    Some people LOVE them and others hate them. I suspect those people are using netbooks or phones, or have a data cap. I can definitely see how they can be worse than pictures because they are pretty large in size and only got 256 colors, but the point is that they show off the hard surface better because you can see the specular move as I tumble the camera. You can see any pinching or wierd topology that I might have missed. I tried balancing it with high res pictures, and I will be posting more as I finish, maybe even a video.

    Thanks for the feedback, definitely going to need it if I decide to texture this baby.
  • AtlusZMH
    I wouldn't label anything as "shitty N-gon laden" :P

    Its my understanding that for the high poly at least anything goes as long as the end result is clean!
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    AtlusZMH wrote: »
    I wouldn't label anything as "shitty N-gon laden" :P

    Its my understanding that for the high poly at least anything goes as long as the end result is clean!

    Your absolutely correct, trust me, I understand.

    Clean topology is still desirable because it allows you to iterate and add changes faster. I am trying hard to learn to model cleanly and not take any shortcuts that can cost time later.
    Clean modeling can end up costing time sometimes, but I'm doing this as a learning experience, I want to spend some more time on this.

    Plus, who doesn't want a nice clean topology to show off in their wireframe portfolio shots?

    Quick tip for any beginners:

    One thing I learned kinda late to block out as much as you can first, identify any problems and iterate on them before you add support loops, preferably in a sepparate edit poly modifier. That also helps when making the low poly, you can just disable that edit poly.
  • Racer445
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    Racer445 polycounter lvl 10
    yeah i really can't see anything with those gifs. post some simple shots because i can't easily make a paintover :(

    also i've now learned to avoid edit poly modifiers whenever possible. opening them in different max versions are iffy at best. generally it will completely break everything and render your mesh useless.
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 8
    i find with n-gons, it;s best to think of it as a situational tool, use them when it best suits end result, and helps cut down time.

    and agree with racer if had some weird shit happend and some broken meshes from using too many edit polys, i tend to just block out, copy to new layer than add support loops, than copy the blockout again later on and optimize for the lp.
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    Looking good computron :)

    Glad to see you seem to have got that one problem area figured out too
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Racer445 wrote: »
    yeah i really can't see anything with those gifs. post some simple shots because i can't easily make a paintover :(

    also i've now learned to avoid edit poly modifiers whenever possible. opening them in different max versions are iffy at best. generally it will completely break everything and render your mesh useless.

    I have had some modifier stack problems in max 2012, but the edit poly never caused any. Manipulate in view plus some stack options have made max crashe an lose work for me though.

    I'll post more pictures when I get on my computron. But get with the times racer, make a .GIF video paint over. Lol :poly124:
    passerby wrote: »
    i find with n-gons, it;s best to think of it as a situational tool, use them when it best suits end result, and helps cut down time.

    and agree with racer if had some weird shit happend and some broken meshes from using too many edit polys, i tend to just block out, copy to new layer than add support loops, than copy the blockout again later on and optimize for the lp.

    I understad, ngons are great, I use then a ton on the stock of the rifle, but editing it is kind of tedious. Thanks for the layer tip, I'll try that if I have any problems.
    Looking good computron :)

    Glad to see you seem to have got that one problem area figured out too

    I actually haven't gotten back to that yet, :poly122: but I was over thinking it. I know how I'll do it now. Thanks for your help!
  • mbischof
    Looking sick. Don't be afraid to use less loops when trying to define the form, it will help clean up some of the areas and make the wire flow more. Also, a lot of your vertical edge loops could be perfectly straight, but for whatever reason they're diagonal or some of the verts are slightly off. Perfectly straight loops help for a a nice even pull on the geometry around it. (see image)
    example.jpg
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    Computron wrote: »
    Tomorrow is possibly a new day.

    I really wanted to practice getting some nice topology and I am trying to completely avoid using floaters in this asset. I still don't know if I will be able to model this curve:

    ejvXT.png

    It might be better to Dynamesh and lazymouse DamStandard that shit.

    were you able to model this out? just keep trying son! that's the way i do it :) maybe post some wires of what you're trying to do. this is polycount! we help here!
  • gsokol
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    gsokol Polycount Sponsor
    Dang, thats looking pretty sharp.

    Is there any reason why your avoiding floaters?
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    gsokol wrote: »
    Dang, thats looking pretty sharp.

    Is there any reason why your avoiding floaters?

    Like I said, I am trying to learn to model cleanly and properly for practice. Its a portfolio piece so I have more time. Nice wireframes look beautiful and you get clearner AO bakes without using floaters for concave parts. (I am using some floaters for convex shapes on flat surfaces)

    more progress, I got to stop now for a few hours:

    KoSD5.png

    hK6sf.png

    1lAPJ.jpg

    eL9bR.png
  • ae.
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    ae. polycounter lvl 9
    Awesome love the big images!

    Not much of a weapons guy but so far so good don't see anything that really stands out except for the top area those areas need o be a little tighter, right now they looks too soft.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Those are next!
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for the feedback everyone, I loosend up the area around the trigger and worked on the top part, making it sharper.

    I'm calling it a day now. I might not be able to work on it tomorrow, college tests to study for and papers to write. :(

    Here's what I got right now, Day 5. Hope you like 3-point lighting :):
    Hb1ts.png

    hHabR.png

    wZEUX.jpg

    KHrms.jpg
  • ae.
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    ae. polycounter lvl 9
    so chunky i love it! good job man nothing to crit :P those details are gonna pop when you bake this sucka :D
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Your right! I was worried that they might be a little on the tight side until I tried lighting it, but these shots really show it off well. :-)

    Low poly is gonna be a pain in the ass though, can't wait. :poly122: :thumbup:
  • biofrost
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    biofrost polycounter lvl 8
    Looking really ace so far! I am blown away you were able to get those nice circle and oval shapes without using floaters. I tend to fall back on floaters but I suppose I should tackle the problem head on!

    No crits so far, keep this up I can't wait to see the bake!
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Concave floaters have the tendency to exacerbate problems with projections for your normals bake and the AO can show up incorrect as well.

    The way I get around it is to model my shapes first, use the knife tool, and cut a hole, align the item with its new concave section, select both the border edges and use the bridge tool. Easy.

    For more simple things like the screw indents, since they are perfect circles I use the GeoPoly tool. (found in your Graphite Modeling Tools of max 2009 and up)
    Select any polygons on top of your future hole, inset and then delete them, cap the edge borders and select the new polygons. That part is important as GeoPoly works best with one polygon with many edges.

    GeoPoly, inset, bevel, inset, inset. add support loops after you find the correct depth. DONE. :thumbup:


    Sometimes when you get to close to an edge, you may need to go up one level of subdivision before you proceed to avoid messing up your edge width consistency. That gets annoying :poly122:

    DE0QL.png0UOQS.pngqyzNt.png

    These circular features on top of slants are a whole other problem that require a lot of patience and even more geo.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] polycounter lvl 9
    can you post a breakdown of the material you're using for your renders?

    looks hot O_O
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Standard material, 15 glossiness, dark grey diffuse, 80 specular. 3 point lighting plus a spotlight with enabled shadows and increased ray count. rendered in the viewport (!) with the realistic setting, let it sit with progresive rendering (on by default) for a bit, screencap your viewport when it looks nice and alias free. That helpful? :-)
  • Jason Young
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    Jason Young polycounter lvl 10
    Lookin' nice so far! I do think this part on the grip is a decent deviation from the concept, and causes it not to have the same beefy feel.

    gun.jpg
  • tristamus
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    tristamus polycounter lvl 9
    Looks great man.

    As far as all the screws and such goes, if you didn't want to float nor model them in, there's this (100% time saver)...

    Eat 3D - 50 Free Custom Bolts Normals
  • Callesw
    Awesome work so far! Cant wait to see it baked :) Also, thanks a lot Tristamus for that link! Great stuff!
  • Darkleopard
    nice work. How long roughly are you spending each day?
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    It varies maybe 1-3 hours some days. I'm still practicing since I'm not all that fast at sub-d. I can't work on it today (or yesterday) since I got other work. :(

    Thanks for the screw normal link. I've put them in in post before so that should be useful. I am trying to model everything in though thIs time. :)

    JMYoung wrote: »
    Lookin' nice so far! I do think this part on the grip is a decent deviation from the concept, and causes it not to have the same beefy feel.

    gun.jpg

    It looks that way partly because the 'concept' is at an angle.
  • Weirdboy
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    Weirdboy polycounter lvl 5
    Very nice so far. I'm interested to see what this will look like once textured.
    Computron wrote: »
    It looks that way partly because the 'concept' is at an angle.

    I think he meant that the chamfer should be farther down the grip.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Weirdboy wrote: »
    Very nice so far. I'm interested to see what this will look like once textured.

    I am going to need a lot of help with that.:poly122:
  • CandyStripes05
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    CandyStripes05 polycounter lvl 8
    Computron wrote: »
    I am going to need a lot of help with that.:poly122:

    i look forward to your trial and error : )
  • Stromberg90
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    Stromberg90 polycounter lvl 9
    Computron wrote: »
    I am going to need a lot of help with that.:poly122:

    I think you will do a fine job, got a pretty solid concept to work from :)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Sorry, no big updates, I really don't have time to work on it this week.
    I started to work on the scope and the top of the stock and the scope rail (IDK what anything is called).
    BkICh.jpg

    VwNqq.jpg

    aw1lh.png
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Good work, keep it up. Main thing that stands out for me is the gun has a plastic look now because of the exaggerated "floater"-style elements and the soft edges. Remember to bring in extra crispness and detail in the FPV area.
  • Rens
    Ya things look a bit on the soft side, very nice :)
  • Stromberg90
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    Stromberg90 polycounter lvl 9
    Good work on this, nothing to crit on now :)
    Or I would like a brighter material :P
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    perna wrote: »
    Good work, keep it up. Main thing that stands out for me is the gun has a plastic look now because of the exaggerated "floater"-style elements and the soft edges. Remember to bring in extra crispness and detail in the FPV area.

    Thanks Perna, the scope has some much crisper edges, I am going to give it some more UV space as well as the areas around it. I am trying to keep things nice and phat for everything else.

    Can you elaborate more on the 'plastic look' and 'floater-style'?

    I just finished (unless something else gets brought up:poly122:) and I am going to post some high quality renders soon.
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    i think the consistency of your edges, is lacking. Some big shapes have chunkier edges than smaller shapes. This is pretty evident around the rail and around the trigger guard area. A more "universal" edge density across the model would make this look more... metal-ish.

    but that should be easy! :)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    @Alberto Rdrgz I loosened up the edges to stay more consistent and fixed some of the proportions with FFDs, tapers and other spacial scale modifiers.

    Working on a piece over several days does cause slight variances in proportions, no biggie.
    After a short break due to college finals, Day 5:

    i1fjoZTRR3LMM.jpg

    ieOnTaFJ8A40K.jpg

    ihCJbxNGMnRAg.jpg

    iB0np0kDe50Cc.jpg

    iTmbN0wXTKdkd.jpg

    First Person Shot lined up to a Frame from the latest Vidoc

    iHTJQYo5XxJSG.jpg




    Time to get started on the Low poly then?
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Computron wrote: »
    [..]I am trying to keep things nice and phat for everything else.

    Can you elaborate more on the 'plastic look' and 'floater-style'?
    In 95% of cases, people make way too hard edges since they model all zoomed in. Having some bevel to catch highlights is good, but you've gone too far here. Your meshes should indicate what material they're made of without any textures. The main distinction between plastic and metal is the edge hardness. So, if you wanted to make some of the big chunks on this weapon plastic, you'd make the edges softer, but they're already pretty much soft to the extreme, so it would give you a melted look if you wanted to make them even softer.

    Floater-style details are details you'd normally model as floaters, like screws and insets. In your model they're all larger, thicker than on the H4 BR, so you end up with the toy gun look.

    Just imagine that you want to create 2 versions of the exact same gun, but one would be plastic, and the other metal. They'd require different approaches, and you've gone with the plastic approach here. You've done a good job of it, but it's not the ideal approach for this asset.

    Your 1st person view image shows it very well. If you want a quick fix you can just tighten things up in the first person view area.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for the Feedback Perna!

    I definitely see that the screws/holes are a like chunky looking now, thanks for pointing that out. (I made one in the beginning and just instanced it around early on)

    I'm going to have to do a once-over on the rest of the model and make sure everything is consistently metal thickness, I can see a few panels here and there.

    Any other strange proportions you can point out?


    Quick question on a slightly unrelated note. When baking normals, have any of you 3point guys ever considered baked out all mip levels separately? If I were to bake out the top level, and scale for each lower mip, wouldn't those technically be slightly incorrect or at least require a re-normalization?

    Oh and just for reference, what was the resolution for the normals maps for the brink weapons? (I know it depends on your game and other such factors, but what was it for the Brink guns on your site?)

    Also, any lighting/material tips I can use to better display my model (Preferably in the Nitrous Viewport)?
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Computron:
    It's cool that you think detailed enough about it to consider normal map mips.

    In short: Don't worry about it, as fiddling with mips is a waste of time unless you have dedicated tools (inhouse this would be done automatically without you having to worry about it anyway). Normalization would typically happen as the result of averages would be less than unit length.

    First person weapon resolution is typically 2x1k or 2x2k, possibly scaled down or higly texture-compressed for console (sad fade).

    About presentation for portfolio purposes, the best advice I can give is to keep it simple. Your work is good enough that you don't need to pile on effects.

    Cubemap ambient and reflection, a light with specular highlights that show off details. Dark viewport background.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    I did this, hope you don't mind. I'll remove it if you do.

    It's a bit hard to read your original as the eye is drawn to the light background and the model itself is some highlights on black, so I made two edits; dark and light background. The important thing is just not to let the object color blend into the background color too much, and to draw the eye to the model itself
    per128_computronpresentation01.jpg
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 11
    Shit is tight, yo. Looking good, will be interesting to see this progress : ))
  • n88tr
    Maybe it was seeing it in udk but it just looks too thick all over to be a rifle. The thickness of it all makes it look more like a heavy machine gun or a explosive weapon. I'm not sure if you were trying to make it a light assault rifle or what but to me it's too thick all over
  • Pedro Amorim
    n88tr wrote: »
    Maybe it was seeing it in udk but it just looks too thick all over to be a rifle. The thickness of it all makes it look more like a heavy machine gun or a explosive weapon. I'm not sure if you were trying to make it a light assault rifle or what but to me it's too thick all over

    What does that have to do with anything?
    Bevel tightness is independent of type of gun.
    The same principles apply, be it a LMG or a SMG.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    perna wrote: »
    Computron:
    It's cool that you think detailed enough about it to consider normal map mips.

    In short: Don't worry about it, as fiddling with mips is a waste of time unless you have dedicated tools (inhouse this would be done automatically without you having to worry about it anyway). Normalization would typically happen as the result of averages would be less than unit length.

    First person weapon resolution is typically 2x1k or 2x2k, possibly scaled down or higly texture-compressed for console (sad fade).

    About presentation for portfolio purposes, the best advice I can give is to keep it simple. Your work is good enough that you don't need to pile on effects.

    Cubemap ambient and reflection, a light with specular highlights that show off details. Dark viewport background.


    Interesting. So I take it, something Like UDK or Cryengine only do a re-normalized scaling when set to importing normal maps? Is this enough? I would think implementing sepperate mip bakes would only lengthen the bake time by 1.3x, but I guess thats not worth it?

    Also, has anyone ever tried matching groups of mip levels to their corresponding LODs? I would think that at wide angle, this would cause inaccuracies without some kind of filtering, so maybe you could limit the mips range accordingly with the current LOD? :poly141: Just a thought. :\

    As for resolution, I assume ~%45 of the guns UV space is mirrored?
    perna wrote: »
    I did this, hope you don't mind. I'll remove it if you do.

    It's a bit hard to read your original as the eye is drawn to the light background and the model itself is some highlights on black, so I made two edits; dark and light background. The important thing is just not to let the object color blend into the background color too much, and to draw the eye to the model itself

    Awesome. I thought it would be cool to match the background with the Polycount board's color and have it blend in, but your totally right.

    Thanks for the info Perna

    Snefer wrote: »
    Shit is tight, yo. Looking good, will be interesting to see this progress : ))

    Thanks Snefer. :poly128: :thumbup:

    n88tr wrote: »
    Maybe it was seeing it in udk but it just looks too thick all over to be a rifle. The thickness of it all makes it look more like a heavy machine gun or a explosive weapon. I'm not sure if you were trying to make it a light assault rifle or what but to me it's too thick all over

    Not sure where you got UDK, I haven't even started on a low poly yet.
    Maybe your confusing this BR with some other thread?

    As for the thckness of the rifle, you are right, it is more wider in the stock area. TBH, it's kinda grown on me, I like it to be a heavy rifle. The Gas-Powered Assualt Rifle in Halo is really wide, and the Halo 4 BR is supposed to be more brute force and less accurate so I think it's fitting.
    What does that have to do with anything?
    Bevel tightness is independent of type of gun.
    The same principles apply, be it a LMG or a SMG.

    I think he was talking about the proportions of the rifle's pieces, not the edge thickness. *shrug*


    EDIT:
    BTW, I just found a 'more smilies' button under the smilies that I never noticed, and I think I found my new favorite one:*shrug*
    OMG, Have you ever even seen a smilie with shoulders?!? :poly142: this is some Polycount 2.0 shit right here!
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    haha you just leveled up!
  • EarthQuake
    One thing that really pops out to me here is in a lot of places you have meshes that are just straight up intersecting other meshes. To put this sort of model over the top you really need to think about how it would be constructed, what bits would be merged, where there would be seam lines between two intersecting parts.

    At the least take a stab at it from the FPV perspective, the bits around and below the scope there look a bit sloppy, and the 45 degree angled "charging handle" bit there just sticks right into the base piece akwardly there.

    Its also a shame that like the coolest area here is the butt stock, not your fault though if you're working from an existing concept. Silly concept artists putting the coolest details behind the player's view.
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