The worst time to graduate?
I have about 7 weeks left until the end of my games design degree and I'm really worried that I will just end up like Yosser Hughes for awhile not even getting a look in.
I also have a contact in the industry who was at one of England's biggest developers. He didn't make me feel much better by saying he left recently to work in France because games development in the UK is on the decline and this guy is quite high up so he should know. He told me that there are an abundance of games design degrees and although there are not enough developers anymore to take all its graduates on.
I'm no labour supporter but it was a labour MP that raised a question to the chancellor "why is there no tax breaks for games development but tax breaks for film makers?" He was very ignorant with his response saying "you cannot have everything when we have a deficit this big". Normally I would support anything to do with debt reduction but on this case I see it as just a case of Etonian's probably never had much interest in computer games and therefore just pass it off as one of those "soft subjects" even though it was a computer game that was the biggest selling media product of all time.
If all biggest selling games were made in the UK surely it would be good for our economy on both jobs and business. But why would developers bother doing that while there are little incentives?
I also have a contact in the industry who was at one of England's biggest developers. He didn't make me feel much better by saying he left recently to work in France because games development in the UK is on the decline and this guy is quite high up so he should know. He told me that there are an abundance of games design degrees and although there are not enough developers anymore to take all its graduates on.
I'm no labour supporter but it was a labour MP that raised a question to the chancellor "why is there no tax breaks for games development but tax breaks for film makers?" He was very ignorant with his response saying "you cannot have everything when we have a deficit this big". Normally I would support anything to do with debt reduction but on this case I see it as just a case of Etonian's probably never had much interest in computer games and therefore just pass it off as one of those "soft subjects" even though it was a computer game that was the biggest selling media product of all time.
If all biggest selling games were made in the UK surely it would be good for our economy on both jobs and business. But why would developers bother doing that while there are little incentives?
Replies
With my portfolio now I have things that I thought were great, you know when I was a 1st or second year but now I want to polish and modernise them, put environments into engines but there isn't the time in this mad rush to graduation.
Sure, times are tough. There's a lot of skilled, talented and experienced artists who have had to take jobs in completely unrelated fields just to make ends meet. You already have an advantage over a lot of people who haven't been able to devote the kind of time to portfolio development that you, as a college student, have.
Any college brief can be interpreted liberally - what's stopping you from reworking older pieces to a higher standard, or going above and beyond what's expected of you in your course?
As for now being the worst time to graduate, I'm going to call bullshit on that. Sure, layoff threads are far too common these days, but they have been for years. Depending on who you listen to, the economy in general is showing signs of recovery, tax breaks or not. Video games are no different from any other industry - too many graduates, not enough jobs. Either you go where the work is, or you're shit out of luck.
I do sympathize, but try working a full-time job, commuting and supporting a family - THEN trying to find time to work on your portfolio. Yes, it's tough, but what do you want?
-Less bitching
-More working
-???
-Profit
Only 2 guys from my graduating class (2000) got jobs in the industry.
The window of opportunity for artists to gain 'easy entry' into the industry was the mid 90's, and they had to know 3D software that was incredibly cumbersome to learn, worked on $60k computers (SGI Indigos), on $20,000 programs (SoftImage, or Alias Poweranimator).
I graduated last year... I've tried to keep as much tabs on my classmates who I graduated with. Of them, I'm probably the only on working as an artist on contract of indeterminate length (full-time permanent). The few who are working at game companies as artists are primarily "internships", the others working at Game Companies are in QA or Customer Service.
I don't really know what I did that set me apart... except possibly trying to keep my portfolio website as free of bells and whistles as possible. I'll be the first to admit, I think some of my classmates' art is better than what my portfolio had, but, they may not have had the ideal presentation.
Contrary to my graduating class (2006) in which all of my class mates got jobs in the industry.
If you're good enough don't worry. If you're not good enough then practice, practice, practice.
then everyone would have an easier way to answer you.
most people won't go searching to find your work, especially guys high up enough to
consider you for a job.
Not interested in elitism
I'm not referring to individuals, just the wider situation with recruitment right now.
And such a simple thing as a portfolio in your signature could help you heaps.
You're also in direct competition with the thousands of other 'game design' graduates looking for jobs. I hate to break it to anyone with other expectations, but there isn't a lack of entry game art jobs in the UK (nor is it really in decline, there have been some high profile closures in recent years, but there is an epic shitton of new studios) - there is instead an overpopulation of inexperienced artists trying to fill them. There are probably around 100 vacancies going a year, but each university churns out between 10 and 50 graduates.
If you want the job, the only way to get it is to put the effort in and rack up an awesome portfolio. This means being unemployed, or at least 'flipping burgers' for a year or more until you have demonstrated a substantial enough skill-set to do the job - and better than the competition.
That said, there are a lot of studios in the UK - I reckon we have by far the highest density of game development studios in the world.
My work has been up there for a long time, I'v had crits, people telling my work average here is honestly old news on old work, I know how to improve my own work but I simply don't have much time on my hands few the next few months. So lets start a fresh and not turn this into a crit thread, leave that to the pimp my work area, this is a general discussion of difficulties facing graduates these days.
It does help to A, keep tabs on your teachers, specially if they are in the industry. B, always keep your network of friends alive, you never know when they'll get a job and can help you in. My first job was because of a friend of mine recommended me when they needed someone ASAP. That and my portfolio. Which brings you to C, just keep working you on your art. Be part of this community. Here at 1p, we have hired interns and people and i know some of them just from here on the forums. So its always nice to see that people strive to get better and understand and make better art.
Plenty of modders out there that one can take part of as well. Personally, i just like working on my portfolio. Maybe do some art tests, those build your portfolio pretty nicely. Anyways... hope that helps... or is more towards the discussion you mean to have in this thread.
EDIT: Forgot to mention something super important. ALWAYS tailor your cover letter and portfolio to the studios you are applying for. You will notice that if you do this you have more call backs for opportunities. I guarantee it. Just look which studios have openings that you like, then create some small props, small env in that style and then address your cover letter to that specific company. Some people think it doesn't matter, they send the same cover letter everywhere. But it does make a difference. You just have to be smart and really do your homework.
Also If this isn't the thread were you want crits, you are still not having a portfolio in your signature even if it was your crits are ok thread.
honestly just trying to help you, and I'm not saying anything about your work, mainly because I haven't seen it.
Not that many years since I graduated myself, at an even worse time to be honest, so maybe my help isn't totally useless.
Well don't hate to break it to me, this is something I realised before I even went to uni as I am older than the average student at 26. You are right that there are many studios but I'm not talking about the wave of hand held studios I am mainly referring to how here we do lack big developers and needlessly because there is room for more.
Of course it wouldn't be fair to compare us to America but you know they have the military industrial complex to make sure their is heavy demand for large scale game development, what ever they say on fox news against games there will always be more demand for it over there.
Over here, do you really think the people in Westminster have a clue about the potential for growth there is with a healthy games industry? Of course its about quality rather than quantity but there is also few positions available by national choice too, we don't have competitive business rates here. Corporation tax for example, that can effect contractors and small businesses and its at 26% which isn't good.
Firstly, that made no sense.
Secondly, game studios don't just sell to their home country. It's not like Nintendo only sells to the japanese or ubisoft to french speaking people. So demand in the US is good for all game studios.
You're in Kingston. That means within forty miles of you, you have the following studios (that aren't mobile developers) off the top of my head:
Firefly, Introversion, Rocksteady, Criterion, Lionhead, Media Molecule, Creative Assembly, Climax, Disney, Curve, Kuju, Headstrong, Novalogic, Zoe Mode, Rockstar, Sega, SCE, Microsoft Soho, Splash Damage, Square Enix, Supermassive - the list goes on.
I think it may well be possible that there are more studios within forty miles of your current location, than there are in the entirety of France.
Most of those are big developers, and the majority of that list consists of AAA console game developers. The UK games industry is definitely not in any real decline - the situation isn't favourable perhhaps, but there is no lack of industry here.
Anyone would be lying if they told you, it didn't fluctuate like crazy. Just had a couple of friends go to Codemasters, and a couple came over from the UK a month ago.
As a whole, it's hard to think the industry is going through a 'low' right now. I'd say the 'low' passed by 2 years ago, and quite a few studios are starting to expand and ramp up.
I can't speak for the UK, but I do know Del got a job not too long ago. He left Blitz, which means theres likely an opening at Blitz.
Thing is, you gotta be as good as Del to capitalize on those opportunities.
Holy crap, I graduated in 2010 and work in the industry. Many of my classmates also..
Most UK studios are struggling to find talent in UK.
I don't live anywhere near Kingston.
It's much easier than accepting that their work isn't up to standard, or that they could be doing more to improve their chances.
and most of the people in the united states don't live near any studios have have to move for jobs.
+1
I agree with this point. It's also true that only a small percentage of graduates ever get hired. I know students from all over the UK and it's pretty much always the same everywhere. You can't blame your university and you can't blame studios. Some people just want the job more than others, so they put the effort in. There's always room for talented people regardless of their level of experience.
I moved 824 miles for my first job, 454 miles for my second and 2,030 miles for my current, hopefully I'm done moving because there are a lot of studios in Austin, TX.
QFT.
it just depends on your skills man, you'll find work you have them...
Unless you work in a HUB, like Seattle, Austin, Montreal, or LA this could be career suicide.
Contrary to your assumptions, I don't work in the industry. I've been very slowly working towards improving my skills and expanding my portfolio for the past three years. During that time, I've moved countries, gotten divorced and a whole host of other crap that could have discouraged me from working toward my goals. Now, I'm almost 30, and I've still got a ways to go. What I haven't done is blamed all and sundry, including the bloody government, on why I haven't managed to achieve these goals sooner. I simply haven't put in as much effort as I should have. I'm also brutally honest about the overall standard of my work, and I'm not the kind of person to blame others for my own shortcomings.
If you don't like what I said, that's fine - but elitism it most certainly is not. It's the truth. If you can't find work, you're either not good enough, or not looking hard enough. There is no shortage of opportunities for skilled people.
All you've done by dismissing the opinions in this thread is prove that you're either too stubborn or immature to accept that your work is not up to par, or that you're making excuses. I can't say for certain one way or the other, since I haven't looked at your work, but it doesn't matter, does it? Even if your work were excellent, you've done a lot of damage to your reputation and image on a professional forum by posting with an attitude.
Ranting about the lack of government tax breaks, the American military-industrial complex and whatever else just makes you look like "that guy", who definitely wouldn't work well with others in a studio environment.
Since there are many senior artists here who could be in a position to hire you in the future, the best thing you could do is swallow your pride and start posting some work with a more humble attitude to do some damage control.
I was in a similar situation, but decided not to apply to places or look for jobs given i still have the ability to live off of very little and can afford to pursue my own thing.
This.
if you were willing to relocate, have a well presented profolio and keep on searching, i think you could possibly score a job in maybe mobile/browser games. which i think is a good entry job to gain some work experience.
It isn't how it is though, he's trying to say its nothing to do with politics and tax and that's all people blame these things on which is wrong. like it or not politics effects almost everything. I didn't say he was wrong that employers need to take on people with the right talent but its naive and generalising to blame it all on the students.
Apologies, I misread - if you're in Stafford there are still plenty of studios nearby (and it's not far fetched to move two hours further south from Stafford to work near London either). Crytek, Rebellion (do they still have a midlands office?), Eurocom, Codemasters, Blitz, Monumental, Strawdog, Sumo, Revolution, Traveller's Tales, Team17 and SCE are all within around an hour from you, and these are all pretty big studios.
This all said, I don't get what your rant is otherwise about since you're refuting everyone elses posts here - yes there are not enough jobs available for graduates, but there is no shortage of game art positions in the UK at all. The actual time you graduate doesn't make a huge amount of difference really; companies hire when they need to, and this may or may not coincide with your actual graduation - or you may have to wait. If you're having difficulty getting work after applying, take it as a hint that you need to improve; this means working on art skills, and working on building a portfolio of demonstrable in-game artwork. Outside of that, I don't know what else there is to really say regarding the topic title.
One thing I can tell you for damn sure though is that the industry is small - and you probably just blew a lot of your chances with this thread alone.
^ this.
SO goddamn much.
I think you should forget about the perceived barriers to entry and concentrate on yourself and making it so they have no choice but to hire you. There will always be problems and obstacles making landing a job in this industry hard. It's not supposed to be easy.
On topic: I'd recommend that you set a goal and work hard trying to achieve it. Believe that the hard work will pay off in the end and you'll make it! I ended up at a small developer here in Sweden after 2-3 months of graduation.
Question: Is this the worst time to graduate?
Answer: No
thread lingers on for three pages, OP seems dissatisfied.
*edit. three pages! woooooo