Normal map photoshop saving problem

woody

I was hoping to start the diffuse tonight but ran into a problem concerning my normal map. I was attempting to tweak it in photoshop, but when I saved as .tga and reapply to my model, it totally screws. I came to the conclusion it wasnt my edits causing the problem, so did a quick test save of the original normal map without editing, low and behold same problem. So basically photoshop is doing something to my normal map when I save it.

A: Baked normal map
B: Baked normal map opened in photoshop and saved(no edits)



I save .tga as 32bits/pixel and the filesize is exactly the same as the baked normal map? Yet why are the results different!?

Help would be great! :S

Eric Chadwick

I bet this is Color Management. You can disable this.
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/creativesuite/cs/using/WSF8890E7B-90A1-4a11-859E-0BCE0D1A088B.html

woody

Eric Chadwick wrote: »

I bet this is Color Management. You can disable this.
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/creativesuite/cs/using/WSF8890E7B-90A1-4a11-859E-0BCE0D1A088B.html

You know I thought it would be something like this! I will try it when I get home. Thanks alot!

woody

Just tried to turn colour management off and save the normal map, still the same problem. Could you explain further what I need to do? This is the first attempt at saving normals with Photoshop CS5 so there is obviously something wrong with the colour management settings. I never had this problem with previous versions.

Cheers.

EDIT: Been scrawling the internet for hours, found nothing! Surely I'm not the only person with CS5 who is editing normal maps. Aparently Adobe has removed the 'disable color management' option so surely everyone who on here is experiencing the same problem? It is so frustrating now because I feel helpless



Above shot is the baked normal map, then the one saved from photoshop. As you can see they look totally different, the bottom being wrong of course. I am actually pulling my hair out with this now! Please someone help.

Eric Chadwick

Is gamma turned on in Max? Customize > Preferences > Gamma and LUT. Either turn it off, or make sure your bitmap input is set to 1.0.

Butthair

You said it was 32 bit, that means it has an alpha which might be causing some issues. Try saving as a 24 bit instead?

Wesley

I've had this same problem, created a thread on it as well. Have you normalised your map after editting?

leleuxart

I use CS5 and haven't had this problem before. How are you saving it exactly? When I save as a Targa, there are two color options:

Use Proof Setup: Working CMYK
ICC Profile: sRGB ....

Any chance those were selected on accident? Mine are grayed out, so I'm not sure how you would check them though.

Lennyagony

I had this issue as well, it was something to do with Samsung drivers for the p2350. This was well over a year ago so my memory's pretty sketchy but i vaguely remember using View->Proof Setup in Photoshop.

Edit: did a quick search and came up with this

"The symptom is likely to occur after update of incompatible monitor driver, especially on Samsung LCD flat panel monitor driver update via Windows Update. The cause for the error is the usage of incorrect color profile for the monitor in Color Management setting."

"you can go to to the advanced tab of colour management, and set default device profile there BUT windows update will try to update it again"

Eric was definitely on the right track, the issue of windows continually updating this in the background after making a change and the problem seemingly randomly re occurring had me pulling my hair out for a while.

woody

@Eric: Tried to edit gamma correction and it just screws up more.

@Buthair: Tried saving as all 3 options, to no avail.

@Wesley: Yeah I have tried to normalize my map. However, like I said in first post I have just been throwing it into Photoshop without editing to try and diagnose without my edits being potential factors.

@leleuxart: I've tried loads of different save options and none of them has really worked.

@Lennyagony: My monitor is a Dell monitor and to be honest I have been having a problem with it auto-detecting my resolution. Will look further into this when I get home tonight.

I have just ordered a new gaming computer costing me a lot of money. So I hope to god the problem doesn't persist on that machine, as it will have my current monitor. I will still be trying to resolve this issue so will post anything I find.

Thanks for all the replies!

odium

Can you post both the normal maps here so we can take a look at the differences?

Joshua Stubbles

Woody - you just edited the gamma setting? Did you try turning it off entirely in the GAMMA/LUT tab? Some guys at work had similar issues and that fixed it for them.

amoeba

Someone already asked if you tried normalizing, I'm just wondering, did you use the nvidia plugin for that?

I don't remember having this problem with normal maps. However Photoshop breaks my 32b displacement maps quite often.

Evil raz

I am also having the exact same problem as woody.



one is direct bake of normals and one is saved from photoshop.
No photoshop edits, same size, and both are .tga format. No idea what the problem is.

Eric Chadwick

Try disabling gamma in Max, recreating your normal map from the source, and then see if it still happens. Max has both output and input gamma settings... perhaps your normal map is getting changed by these, not by Photoshop?

http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/2012help/index.html?url=files/GUID-556B3B1C-D62E-48F6-A633-DCF5172219B-3127.htm,topicNumber=d28e580104

Evil raz

Eric Chadwick wrote: »

Try disabling gamma in Max, recreating your normal map from the source, and then see if it still happens. Max has both output and input gamma settings... perhaps your normal map is getting changed by these, not by Photoshop?

http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/2012help/index.html?url=files/GUID-556B3B1C-D62E-48F6-A633-DCF5172219B-3127.htm,topicNumber=d28e580104

Well, thank you kind sir. It works! I guess it is not the same problem as woody since his did not work.

woody

Sorry havnt posted, still been trying to figure this out! Im starting to wonder if it's something to do with 3point or max in general. The gamma thing didn't work, I have also tried saving as different filetypes, and nothing.

However, I loaded the model into marmoset and there seems to be no problem. I have modified the normal map in photoshop and saved it out, reloaded onto the model and no change!





This is great but it still bugs me that it wont work in MAX, makes me think there may be problems with my normal map. Also I believe Marmoset makes stuff look better, hiding issues, great for final presentation but bad for making normal map edits.

This is the normal map, downsized from 2024x2024. My final normal will be 1024 map.



I am just hoping this all corrects itself when I get my new computer. Any more input would be appreciated!

Lennyagony

with your 3point shader problem go here

http://www.3pointstudios.com/3pointshader_help.shtml

and scroll right to the bottom of the help section

"Why does the shading look bad under 2012 and different from other versions of Max?
3ds Max 2012 has gamma handling enabled by default. You can turn it off here: Customize->Preferences->Gamma and LUT->Enable Gamma/LUT Correction."

it could also be your direct x shader support which they also tackle on the help page

FelixSchl

odium wrote: »

Can you post both the normal maps here so we can take a look at the differences?

Gotta second that. Would be helpful to see the original normal map, the new normal map (the one with the problems) and maybe even the PSD so we can see if the problem lies on Photoshop's end. I also second the 24bit comment, just to rule out that the alpha channel is being sampled by the shader.

RolandT

when you are choosing the normal, beside the preview you should see gamma options,

(use image's own gamma / use system default gamma / override)

My Photoshop has the same issue as you, and uses a gamma level around 2 and you cant change that, but use override, and set it to one, that works for me, and you can continue to edit and save the jpg/psd/tga and Max will keep using the override.

DJ308

Hey guys, I had the same problem as woody. My max gamma correction was turned off, but when I Enabled it with all settings set to 1.0 and disabled it again, the problem was fix. So I don't really know what happened, but I guess its worth a try.

AquaBeat

Hey did you solve your problem? I have the same problem with photoshop CS6 and 3ds Max 2012.

Cthogua

OH MY GOD I just had this same problem while finishing up an art test. For me turning off "Enable Gamma/LUT Correction" fixed the problem. That hour spent trying to figure out what the hell was going on my have cost an entire year off my life.

Swarm22

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I've been having this issue for months with CS6 and Max and couldn't find any info on how to fix it until I found this thread. It was the gamma option in Max that did end up fixing it.

Thanks a lot!

1amrobot

Came here to say that  "Enable Gamma/LUT Correction"  fixed this damn problem. Thanks,guys!

Putson

Hello guys,

I know this problem is old, but I found a solution. The problem happens because the normal map changes the gamma when is imported to Photoshop. Then when you save that with corrections, it comes to max with different gamma. So Gamma LUT changes the gamma again on top of the change made on photoshop.

If you bake Normal map on 3ds max through texture map projection, it will work. But I know, always the map have some problems to solve on photoshop. So, how make changes without disable gamma LUT on Max? I found a way!

You can edit tha map on photoshop, save the TGA and back on Max, inside normal bump, into the Normal channel, you can apply a Gamma gain map if you are using Mental Ray. Disable de-gamma inside Gamma gain map, and on the Input channel, you can apply your normal map.tga.

I hope that can help you.