Tank Model
Hello, everyone!
First post on polycount. Decided to start off with my wip. This is a tank model i am working on.
After finishing high poly, I plan on doing low poly, bake normals, and texture. Working in Max.
Here is what I have so far.
Please c&c.
First post on polycount. Decided to start off with my wip. This is a tank model i am working on.
After finishing high poly, I plan on doing low poly, bake normals, and texture. Working in Max.
Here is what I have so far.
Please c&c.
Replies
Will add after my post is approved. Sorry.
Thanks! I got the attachments up. Will use imgur for updates.
@ darthwilson: this is a Soviet tank T 34-85
There were few different variations that were built that slightly differ one from the other. I am using many different references, but primarily this one: http://legion-afv.narod.ru/T-34-85_Miehikkala_SL.html
The blueprints are little different, but not by much.
Let me know which shapes look odd, and I will try to correct them.
I think I am almost done with the high poly.
Only tracks left.
Not sure how I should do them. In the Dozer tutorial the guy tiles UVs on a simple shape, so instead of actual geometry rotating (when animating), only tiles rotate.
I do not plan on rigging it, but is it really that hard to build and export a rig for tracks? I just do not want to sacrifice shape details if I would have to do it by tiling UVs.
Any suggestions?
Please c&c.
Please let me know if I am on the right track:
Will keep track. Not even sure what my final poly count should be...
Was thinking about making low poly, but high enough not to loose the silhouette.
Any suggestions about what I should aim for?
Here is my low poly wire. Right now It is just under 24 000 tris. Don't know where else I can optimize.
Tracks will have to do with single object and tiling maps (on separate texture sheet). When I tried to model low poly version of each track to keep its shape, it came out to be another 30 000 tris! Even though I have no poly limits on this project, I think this is way too high. That's is why I decided to sacrifice little quality for efficiency.
Plan on baking normals shortly. Not sure how it will come out, i did some small tests and looks like I will loose a lot of detail. To lessen that loss, I plan on doing 4K maps.
And here is the UVs:
Would love to hear from you what mistakes I have made so far.
4K is also way too big for the level of detail I see here, with some optimizing 2k should be fine.
You are right, I completely forgot to scale down unseen parts. Will definitely do that.
Did not overlap the turret, because i plan on having decals on it (will it show incorrectly if i mirror?). But I will overlap the hull sides (not sure what its called, it may be what you meant too?).
Would it be acceptable and would it help to slightly upscale smaller parts, just because I have space in between main parts?
Thank you again, I will rework the UV layout.
PS: love your shader, as you can see I am using it here!
Also it looks like you are splittign a lot of parts of the wheels in the UV's. You should planar map the sides as one complete piece and then relax/peel them a bit. Keep the outer surface of the wheels as one single unwrapped piece as well.
You should also cut a hole for the turret, so you add tri's, but save UV space by not having to map a complete plane with 90% unused space.
For the wheels i followed the logic: 1 smoothing group split = 1 uv island group.
When you say to planar map the sides, you mean to include end caps as well? Wouldn't that distort it quite a bit?
"Keep the outer surface of the wheels as one single unwrapped piece as well." Do you mean I should not use Cylindrical unwrap here? Planar map - relax?
I will do what i can with all the advice you already gave me. Really appreciate your help.
and for the cylindrical mapped parts: i can't find them on your UV, but it looks like your not keeping them as one island? You should.
Also, now that i'm at it:
-i'd reduce the polycount on some the smaller objects/details. Also reduced sides on the cables.
-The number of sides on your wheels is actually kinda low (hurts silhouette), they'd benefit from a little extra. What you add there can be saved on those details.
-On your highpoly, a lot of your edges are very tight and sharp and will barely show through on the normalmap. It'll benefit you a lot if you just go and soften a lot of them up. Especially for the body.
Will correct everything as you suggest. When i am done with corrections, I will throw some basic color, so it it will be easier to see where things are.
Again, thank you.
I am showing group ids in color. Brown - polygons that overlap. Thanks to all the advices I got, I was able to save up some UV space, so will stick to 2K maps.
Here is what I did:
- Optimized the wire. It is 8-sided.
- Decreased the size of less visible polygons to save UV space.
- Mirrored parts of the hull to save UV space.
- Cut the hole in the top of the hull where it is covered by the turret.
- Separated wheels end caps and increased topology on the wheels to keep good silhouette.
- rearranged UVs and packed them tighter.
Decided not to go with lowering polies on smaller parts - it will be too much work.
Also I realize now the importance of exaggerating high poly angles and edges, but, again, will be too much pain to redo everything, so I am hoping that it will look ok on the bake (I did taper majority of the bolts).
Next step: baking normals and AO. Really don't want to go back at this point, unless someone finds a major mistake. That said, please do let me know if you find any mistakes.
There's still more you can do however:
-8 sides for wire is still a lot. 4 sides is enough! Honestly, you will never notice the difference in lowpoly. Do the same for all small cylindrical elelemnts like handles and so. Maybe if they are fat handles, use 5, but never go high, it's really not worth it.
-The back and front of the oil tanks should be just completely flat, and not have that modeled ridge you put in there.
-You could simplify the middle caps of the wheels a bit, have the normalmap do the work there.
-In general some parts are still a bit high on detail.
Anyway, your UV's look good and well thought out now, good improvement. You just seem to still add too much modeled detail here and there, which results in more Uv work, more bake work and more texture work.
Oh and don't forget to soften up the edges on your highpoly a bit, it will make a big difference!
Will try to get as much as I can finished today.
Was playing around with baking maps and noticed that may be I should not have mirrored the side of the hull, since it has different objects sitting on it and they drop different shadows. Should I change that back or just bake it separately from oil tanks and wires?
- Made 4 sides on all wires and handles
- got rid of the ridge on the tanks
- slightly optimized wheel caps
- soften some edges on high poly (as much as I possible could)
- re-did UVs
I managed to show the other side for the hull, without decreasing size of UVs by just packing everything tighter - it worked!
But here I am for another update.
Was struggling with the bakes, had to redo it and correct it so many times.
Here is what I have for the normals, combined with AO bake. I will do some more minor adjustments (may be blend into normals some bumps for metal), but (i hope) majority is done.
Also I managed put together tiling textures for the tracks, and show the discontinuous shapes in the inside center of the tracks with the use of transparency alphas, using examples of Alec Moody and Xoliul's work (thanks!). So now my triangle count is 23657 for the hull and only 500 tris even for the tracks.
Can we see the new UV layout?
Keep it up man! Looking forward to seeing some textures!
Some remarks:
-Marmoset isn't the best to show off bakes imo, the soft lighting with minimal specular doesn't show much. Instead, use a medium gray diffuse with your Ao multiplied on top, use your AO as spec map (but make sure to reduce the intensity to not get burnt white highlights). Also use a bit harsher lighting.
-The noise detail shouldn't be applied everywhere. The reason SOME parts have noise, is due to their manufacturing process, called Sand Casting. It means the mould for that piece was made from sand, leaving a very rough surface behind. It was used for early tank turrets (around the 50's). Nowadays it's not used anymore since it's a bit low-tech.
Your hull will probably be welded plating, as sand casting was only required to get the more complex, rounder shapes of the turret.
Your tracks look good btw, nice job on doing them in such an efficient way.
BreaK The final UV layout has not changed much - i forgot to layout the spare track piece, located on the front. But that did not change it much (tracks are on separates 512 sheet). When I post next update - I will show both sheets.
Xoliul It totally makes sense about sand casting. I was wondering why the turret looks so different on reference and the rest is smooth. I thought that noise would add the feel of small metal bumps, but i guess I overdid it.
Thank you for your advice regarding viewing Normals. For some reason my Viewport does not show all the baked details (think it may have too do with my graphics card), that is why I am playing with Marmo. Plus I wanted to do the final presentation in it, so had to start learning it.
Will edit the normals and work on the skins.
[/FONT]
Back with an update, showing my attempts in texturing.
I decided to go for German-captured coloring; may be will make some alternative skins later with original Soviet colors (this is a Soviet tank). Hope that this skin would not be considered offensive - its part of history afterall.
But I want to make sure that I am on the right track, so here is what I got.
Please let me know if I am going in the right direction (actually I am hoping to be almost finished
The one thing I am not liking much is the cable and its shackles.
Please point any other mistakes/crits on the texture. This is the first time I am going so deep into texturing and really need to see where I stand.
Renders are in Marmoset.
So please C&C!!!
Your texturing is OK, but judging from your previous models on your website, this is where you have most to learn. I'd say right now you're only a quarter there.
What I see:
See this example:
Actually, I recommend you read this article: http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/other/modulationmr_1.html
This real-life modeling and painting is a very interesting thing to study, because it is much closer and more connected to the real thing, and requires much clearer and thought through processes. The one he starts with is like yours: bland, underdetailed. Take note how he changes color tone to draw attention, and fades colors and washes based on use. If you understand why, it's easy to reproduce in Photoshop.
- Your german camo has seams. You should paint the camo alone in a 3D painting app. You can use mudbox, or viewport canvas in Max. it's gonna be a bit tricky for shared parts like the exhaust covers though.
- Your tracks are too contrasting: it's almost black/white. I'd make them a bit more uniform, and add dirt to blend things.
- Your material definition needs more contrast, everything on the tank looks very uniform! If you can make something a differently defined material, do it. Things like straps that are darker and less reflective, contrast between rusted and non-rusted parts (don't be afraid to rust up certain parts completely). And remember, material definition comes from specular value, glossiness value and some from the normal map detail.
- You've got some very uniform overlays in the diffuse and normals I think? Specular also seems uniform save from some overlays.
There's some more, but try to apply these things first, should take you pretty far alreadyI am happy to see your new advice each time I log in!
Yes, I have a lot to learn in coloring and texturing (as well as presentation), because before I was primarily focusing on modelling and baking. But I will get this project to an end, especially because I am getting such valuable pointers during this WIP.
To tell the truth I have a lot of small scale details in there: dirt and rust - I just made them way too transparent, but, yes, now I realize that it all looks uniform. And of course rest of your comments are true - I think I see all these minuses now.
Will read the article and get to working right away. If dont get things done this weekend, I may have a long break for about 2 weeks after that (work, work
So, here is an update.
- Got rid of seams. 3s Max Viewport Canvas worked great for this; but I found it easier to remake german camo from scratch, so it is slightly different.
- Changed color on tracks and made it more dirty-looking;
- Added dust/dirt layer to show some larger scale variation.
- Increased visibility for dirt/rust layers.
- there wasnt much room to make different materials, because it it all pretty much uniform. Straps are also metal.
- I tried to tone down uniform overlays, deleted them where not needed and went over them in Viewport Canvas to get rid of seams. Yes there are some overlays in normals too. But I think I managed to get them non-uniform now.
- Added some edge scuffs
I think I am almost done? Please tell me I am :poly122: !