Art Standards within an art department?
polycounter lvl 18
Hello,im looking for a little insight and maybe some advice from the polycount community.
I am starting to work at a small start up company as lead artist and i guess i could be classified as defacto Art Director. One of my responsibilities will be to set up an art department that will both work well, produce consistent quality art work and i will also be in charge of setting up a good pipeline. One of the goals i have is to set up a well established pipeline that if adopted will reduce the amount of time loss due to inconsistent art standards. Ive worked in some pretty disorganized art departments and i have seen the huge amount of time that is lost and because of this,it has led to alot of art that has needed complete reworks, lost man hours and eventually crunch which i would really like to avoid.
To give you an example, at my last company we had no standards in terms of how a source material should be structured, no consistent naming convention and it caused so much loss of man hours i was surprised the Art leads and the AD kept their jobs.
For example, the lead artist would come up to me and request a model and texture change to an asset that was created by another artist. I would go into the folder with the max file, there would be for example,car_01.max,car_final.max,car_final_02.max. So since the artist who made these didn't work there any long i couldn't ask him what was the latest version of the max file,so i had to spend time hunting down the right file until i finally found the right file. Then when i opened the file, i discovered all of the parts of the models were spread all over max and their pivots differed from the pivots in game and i would have to make sure that was fixed and then after that i could make the changes,re export and then id have to make sure the model was exported correctly so it wouldnt break anything. Then i open the PSD to adjust the texture to find out that the file has over 50 layer,all unnamed and ungrouped, basically a total mess. So i would have to spend more time hiding and unhiding layers to see whats what so i could make the changes to what needed changing and then save my texture and update the texture in the engine. So a task that could have taken a few minutes took hours due to the total mess and if another artist has to work on the same source files again,the process repeats all over and when this occurs over and over,the amount of time adds up.
This is the sort of disorganization i really want to avoid from the outset. Ideally i would like to have it where every artist in the company could potentially open the source file created by another artist,know exactly where everything is located and make any changes needed without wasting time.
So the question i have is what sort of art standards do other companies have and can having too many sets of guidelines artists have to follow be too much? I know artists have their own way of working and its fine if they work individually and on their own but in a team environment if everyone has their own way of working,how much time can be lost due to this?
For example these are some of the few guidelines ive considered.
- folder structure
-naming conventions
- organization of 3d assets within the 3d source file
-PSD file and layer structure
- amounts of source files
Is there such a thing as too much,could too many guidelines hinder the work of an artist?
I am starting to work at a small start up company as lead artist and i guess i could be classified as defacto Art Director. One of my responsibilities will be to set up an art department that will both work well, produce consistent quality art work and i will also be in charge of setting up a good pipeline. One of the goals i have is to set up a well established pipeline that if adopted will reduce the amount of time loss due to inconsistent art standards. Ive worked in some pretty disorganized art departments and i have seen the huge amount of time that is lost and because of this,it has led to alot of art that has needed complete reworks, lost man hours and eventually crunch which i would really like to avoid.
To give you an example, at my last company we had no standards in terms of how a source material should be structured, no consistent naming convention and it caused so much loss of man hours i was surprised the Art leads and the AD kept their jobs.
For example, the lead artist would come up to me and request a model and texture change to an asset that was created by another artist. I would go into the folder with the max file, there would be for example,car_01.max,car_final.max,car_final_02.max. So since the artist who made these didn't work there any long i couldn't ask him what was the latest version of the max file,so i had to spend time hunting down the right file until i finally found the right file. Then when i opened the file, i discovered all of the parts of the models were spread all over max and their pivots differed from the pivots in game and i would have to make sure that was fixed and then after that i could make the changes,re export and then id have to make sure the model was exported correctly so it wouldnt break anything. Then i open the PSD to adjust the texture to find out that the file has over 50 layer,all unnamed and ungrouped, basically a total mess. So i would have to spend more time hiding and unhiding layers to see whats what so i could make the changes to what needed changing and then save my texture and update the texture in the engine. So a task that could have taken a few minutes took hours due to the total mess and if another artist has to work on the same source files again,the process repeats all over and when this occurs over and over,the amount of time adds up.
This is the sort of disorganization i really want to avoid from the outset. Ideally i would like to have it where every artist in the company could potentially open the source file created by another artist,know exactly where everything is located and make any changes needed without wasting time.
So the question i have is what sort of art standards do other companies have and can having too many sets of guidelines artists have to follow be too much? I know artists have their own way of working and its fine if they work individually and on their own but in a team environment if everyone has their own way of working,how much time can be lost due to this?
For example these are some of the few guidelines ive considered.
- folder structure
-naming conventions
- organization of 3d assets within the 3d source file
-PSD file and layer structure
- amounts of source files
Is there such a thing as too much,could too many guidelines hinder the work of an artist?
Replies
Also, remember that scripting things make a lot of these things much easier. Hopefully you have a good tech artist who can work on improving people's workflow and reduce the unnecessary workload.
Just a few generic things we do at work:
-source art folder structure mirrors ingame asset folder structure
-we have scripts that manage exporting models. It keeps track of export sets, so there no manual selecting objects for every re-export.
-We have a baking tool that bakes with naming conventions
-We have scripts for photoshop that setup a PSD based on the naming conventions from the bakes.
-We have Photoshop export scripts that enforce naming conventions when exporting to TGA.
-We've got a few internal wiki pages about these agreements, and we have meetings discussing and explaining these things.
-For non-environment art (characters, weapons), things are mostly set up and imported by two tech artists, who both stick to standards.
-For env art it's a bit more difficult since more people import/export things, so the entire team really needs to be on the same page. Ideally you still want to not spread out these tasks too thinly, for example have one or two guys handle materials instead of let everybody create them at will.
Remember to name your PSD Layers Accordingly.
Make sure files are in their correct folders.
Make sure Pivot Points are all centered.
It leaves a lasting impression when the points are always visable from across the room. Good luck, it sounds like a fantastic job.
There should be car.max, and it should be in Perforce/Alienbrain.
Oh it was on perforce, and they allowed it regardless. Perforce was full of all sorts of useless and outdated files.
Naming conventions on environment modular pieces can get pretty complicated. Moreso than simple props. Props classification is another. a prop isn't just a prop, there are static, dynamic, intractable, hero... ect. all this the PM needs to budget times properly, and ensure inter departmental dependencies are hit.
It's a bit hard to talk about without going into company specific information. You naming really depends on what type of game you are doing.
Getting artists to obey folder structures can be hard, but a firm had is required. This is where tech art usually gets involved with scripting and enforcement.
The you have budget for texture sizes, and vertex/part count for objects, and you need to track that in another system (i use excel), so when optimization time comes, you can quickly sort through worst offenders
Then there is time tracking management in hansoft...
Setting standards for master max files (you can have doznea and dozens of peices in a max file). I usually use a frozen text layer with planes to organize and segment my max files.
and so on......
You are basically asking how to run the env department of a studio... which is a very complicated question to ask
there is a point where there is too much micro management, but you really gotta buckle down and set good standards and be the hard-ass to enforce them. If not you will have total anarchy in your structure and the game simply wont get made.
You best bet is to sit down for a week, figure out the best way forward in your structure and naming with the lead tech artist, with what you need for your project, and stick to it. Get everyone to go back and clean up their files to follow this guideline and don't take no for an answer.
Yes, this! Wikis and docs are great, but remember that your art buddies are going to never read it, or if you force them then they will skim as fast as humanly possible.
Make it with lots of pics, and enforce the rules.
Also, yeah, keep it simple. Naming convention should be ultra simple like Type_descriptivename_##_format(diffuse or normal for example) so "structure_scaffold_01_d" or "tilemap_slipperymud_02_d" or "tile_brickwall_04_d". "tile" for example indicates that it's a tiling texture and can be reused. Ban names like "misc", "final" and "temp" or other nonsensical, non descriptive words.
The directory structure shouldn't be deep and keep binary exported files in the same place as the source files. For example in an "export" folder under the source file (makes it easy to automate find _all_ source and exported files).
Use a version control system. I think SVN slightly better than Perforce, but both works. Avoid Alienbrain, your programmers will thank you.
Let me ask you; have you worked professionally at all?
If you have, you must have been at pretty weird places. You're basically stating everything I think you should not do.
A proper folder structure and naming convention, in my experience, does not need enforcement or a 'firm hand' as you write.
Yes, for over 10 years
and, yes it does need enforcement. This thread and peoples responses proves it.
posting stuff like "When you fuck up, there should be consequences and there is no worse consequence than to feel your peers scorning you." is a sure fire way to rip a team apart. that should be done in a private meeting and solved with training.
what do you disagree with? everything i stated seems pretty obvious, you are taking about simple prop and texture names.
When you start doing modular section building of entire structures, you need to know what your pieces are. over than Trim_bent_02.. trim for what district? what tile set? if you engine doesn't have scaling, what size is it? or you expect the people to drop in dozens of bent trims to find the right one?
Having Eric Chadwick on your team helps, the wikis in most studios were made when wikis where the hot new thing, maintained for 2 weeks and then abandoned.
Just don't change your naming convention mid project, I was involved with that once, it was needed but what a pain in the ass changing everything.
as far as what rules you need to establish one thing I can recommend: set a pixel density standard for environment artist. I've seen environment artist who prefer to eyeball it goof pretty badly when it comes to small props - they usually use a texture 2 to 3 times the size needed.
- Styleguides.
- WIKI with tons of information and screenshots for examples. There can never be too much information. Just keep that WIKI very well organized and easily accesible.
Like people have said. The things that you mention I think of them as a given. Files have to have certain structure, naming convention, etc.
You have this hang up on modular set pieces like it's a big problem? Every project I've been a part of have had modular pieces with the simple convention I was talking about and there was basically no problems and no enforcement. Also keep in mind, modular pieces are such small, small bit of a game art production pipeline. GUI, props, animations, characters, fx etc. You're taking one thing that's a bit complicated and trying to complicate it further, again; keep it simple. If your modular set is so complicated it needs a manual to understand, I'm sure something is wrong.
You're seeing things in black and white, of course you don't yell a person for screwing up but you highlight what's been done (again not pointing fingers )... no need to say anything else. What happens is that people can't care less about management but if their peer think you screwed up, then you're sure to take extra steps to make sure you're doing things correctly.
Again, you really sound like you haven't had that good of a experience in the game industry or I have had tremendous amount of luck.
One particular one had different races spanning across the galaxy, and due to the fact that the engine could only have 1 unique name per asset in the entire game, you had to have perticular prefixs and suffixs on your model name, so you would not run over top of other people modular sets and props.
Another 80 hour game was set in a medival world with dragons, where you have mutiple different races, and tilesets used together to craft the levels, where again, unqiue names needed to be maintained. Within those sets you had different uses for different pieces, you also needed cutaway peices for camera changes.
Both of these worked out fine and were big successes
Im working on a game now that is 40+ hours and has some very tough problems to work around with naming with the principal tech artist.
But hell, i guess if you are doing a standard alley 3 hour shooter, yes your convention does not need to be so strict.