Black Metal Textures.. is this right?

1magus

I have been trying to find some textures for a lamppost that I modeled out for a medieval styled game. I was wondering would black painted metal be the right feel? And if so where do I find some? I have looked everywhere and every time I find the right texture it has all this over paint on it and looks like it is been rotting.

My Game director requested medieval style but new looking for the time not old.

Jason Young

If you found a reference that has the look you want, you can try re-creating it. No need to photosource for something like this.

Lots of lamp posts have a textured paint like this:



Something like an aged bronze would also be cool and might fit better with the them you're going for.

1magus

JMYoung wrote: »

If you found a reference that has the look you want, you can try re-creating it. No need to photosource for something like this.

Lots of lamp posts have a textured paint like this:



Something like an aged bronze would also be cool and might fit better with the them you're going for.

Well the closest thing I found were the Lampposts you see all over the city in the game "Infamous 2" but the bronze look might work as well. Thanks

iniside

Of course black lantern will do. It just depends if this fits scene. You should starting with normal metal texture, and just use curve/levels to make it dark. If this is not enough, use Vibrance before curve/levels.
Also you don't want any major details on texture. The simpler, the better.
Just remember to start very simple. I have the same problem with black metal, and I solved it by doing what I have said there .

Ace-Angel

Please, avoid making textures 100 black, 100% values are a big no-no, as they color burn your eyes and they don't exists easily in real-life, so in this case, a 100% black lamp-post would look...weird to say the least.

Try more along deep dark greens, gold, yellow and so on as it's been mentioned, unless you're going for a Gothic/Post 70's style, or something more along the lines of The Nightmare before Christmas, in which case extreme black values would work with the style.

SirCalalot

Ace-Angel wrote: »

Please, avoid making textures 100 black, 100% values are a big no-no, as they color burn your eyes and they don't exists easily in real-life, so in this case, a 100% black lamp-post would look...weird to say the least.

Try more along deep dark greens, gold, yellow and so on as it's been mentioned, unless you're going for a Gothic/Post 70's style, or something more along the lines of The Nightmare before Christmas, in which case extreme black values would work with the style.

I was just about to make a similar comment

ZeroBigSis

If it's medieval you could go the burning torch route.
With black metal I've found that putting most of the detail into the spec map instead of the diffuse (and using a quite plain diffuse) works well.

1magus

Are you saying the top for example, the part that holds the lights should be another color other than black? I mean I can't just make one part black and another part blue. BTW does anyone know what type of metal lampposts were made out of before the 1900s?

Gestalt

As a general rule the diffuse should be the color of the material when it is lit, which will never be black (no material is perfectly black when lit, the closest that has been done was in a lab, with carbon nanotubes I believe). The 'black' color we see is always relative and dependent on the lighting of the environment as well as the specular (specular says a lot relatively about the properties, both the absorption and reflection, of the material).

Because of these things your diffuse textures will(and should) always look somewhat washed out and light (if you are trying to be accurate). The darkness gets multiplied in by the shader, any cast shadows, and the ambient occlusion (how much of the ambient light each area has access to), so in the end things will look normal and you will have your appropriate range of values. Using correct diffuse values is particularly important in UDK due to lightmass and indirect lighting (if your diffuse textures are too dark you won't get very good radiosity).

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/TexturingGuidelines.html

1magus

Here is an example of what I have.

I figured darkening up some brightly colored metal might help but I think I'm way off?

BTW This is diffuse only, not that I do not apperciate the advice on the other formats like Specular maps n such but if I don't get the Diffuse map correct than I cannot even think of making those yet :poly124:

Gestalt

How light or dark your diffuse is in the end will depend on how intense your specular is. It's probably a good idea to work on both at the same time as a ratio so that you never exceed the total amount of light that is hitting the surface (so if you take this material and want to say that this is what it looks like as a 100% diffuse material, then when you add specularity you would adjust them relative to eachother, ie 80% diffuse + 20% specular). This is a pretty simplified description, but it's a good concept to keep in mind, how you define the specular says a lot about the material and how bright it appears vs reflective.

Edit: a good way to start is to decide on a diffuse/spec ratio first and then plug you diffuse into that and adjust it (the diffuse) until it looks like what you want in direct lighting.

Butthair

You might want something more like this.


But seriously, you might want to look at wrought iron reference. It was more common then, for things to be made out of this crude sort of refined iron. It tends to be shiny due to the oil on it, usually cracked in many places or sort of warped to get a large amount of highlighting from most directions in addition to surface detail.

Something like this for instance is a wrought iron that isn't so black/dark, but has lots of warping and indents to show surface detail and contour.


And in this case, a darker, "bubblier" look. A lot cruder, almost covered in a sort of tar. It has a low/soft specular and it only brightens where there would be oil buildup (fresh oil).


In either case, they have a lot of surface detail, but it has a nice natural noise, rather than something more consistent and generated.

1magus

Well what do you all think? I honestly think I missed my mark somewhere and btw this is done in Mental Ray with it's glass shader so it obviously wont look this way exactly in my game.

TicoTaco

I'd say it's looking a little marble like.
I used to use photo referenced stuff, then I followed this tutorial by Ben Tate
http://www.bentateonline.com/CG_Education/Tutorial_Old_Lantern.html Really useful , and helped me out a lot.
Keep it up !

Gestalt

Well what do you all think? I honestly think I missed my mark somewhere and btw this is done in Mental Ray with it's glass shader so it obviously wont look this way exactly in my game.

I'd say set up the material with the game engine because what you set up in mental ray won't necessarily translate over. You could get the material looking great with mental ray, but then have to redo everything when it gets into the engine.

SirCalalot

I never make materials in Max/Maya beyond Diffuse and Alpha maps.
As far as I'm concerned, I just need enough information to UV unwrap it properly and then do all of the fancy shading in UDK - changing textures in Photoshop and reimporting them as I go along.

SirCalalot

While I'm here actually, if you looks at the tutorial that @TicoTaco posted his finished result is this:



Notice how the diffuse is pretty much just dark grey with the odd bit of slight noise? Pretty much all of the detail is derived from noisy Normal and Specular maps.

1magus

1magus wrote: »

Well what do you all think? I honestly think I missed my mark somewhere and btw this is done in Mental Ray with it's glass shader so it obviously wont look this way exactly in my game.

I could kiss you

McGreed

Btw, when showing off something like your examples, please avoid black/white backgrounds, get a neutral color, which makes it easier to see your model. Don't know about you, but the white background just burned my eyes out, just not easy to see details on a dark model on a white background.

1magus

typo

1magus

McGreed wrote: »

Btw, when showing off something like your examples, please avoid black/white backgrounds, get a neutral color, which makes it easier to see your model. Don't know about you, but the white background just burned my eyes out, just not easy to see details on a dark model on a white background.

Ok so what color? Got any examples? On my screen it is only 5000:1 so it did not burn my eyes.

McGreed

Just anywhere in the neutral -128+ area. It's just the hard contrast between the background and the image makes it harder to see details, especially when its such a large surface. I find a dark gray with a hint of blue is quite nice, but its more personal preference.

Also remember, if you surround something with a color, the colors and brightness of the content changes.
A good example is http://www.blacksunsoftware.com/pics/illusion/bedrog43.jpg , the field A and B is actually the same color, but it doesn't seem like it, because of the other colors and brightness that surround them. So if you surround your black with white, your black will always look very black, even if its just dark grey.

1magus

Maybe I'm a bit too tired tonight but can you simplify that for me?

Stromberg90

1magus wrote: »

Maybe I'm a bit too tired tonight but can you simplify that for me?

grey background

SirCalalot

McGreed

Lol, I guess that would be the easiest way to explain it..."Don't use pure white/black background, use grey, getdimit!"