I have some friends that say: "i like 3d", but you know... they do 3d only 2 times in a year as much... and 2-4 hours only per day . The unique reason of why they don't do 3d daily it's because they don't like it. It's so simple that you CAN'T argue that with me, and i don't need to have that "understanding of human emotions" as you said Ace-Angel.
Later, i see them on forums with their crybaby rants complaining about their poor level, and that others have born with the required talent, having all easier. And that's more pathetic.
I think the problem is that you're pairing the OP up with people you know who also have motivation problems. The difference is that the op stated that he was very motivated in school;
In school, I was known for always working on something, I was always pushing others to do their work and trying to motivate people. Sadly, I feel my motivation has run its course.
You do bring up some great points though, Blaizer, but it's not as black and white as you make it out to be. There is a gray area where "lost" artists are and I've met plenty of great artists who have been having major motivation problems when they want to work on their free time. Heck, most of the people I've worked with didn't work on their free time at all and they still love what they do. The best artists however are the ones you speak of, the ones who work on improving themselves during their free time rather than letting their jobs do all of that for them.
Goraaz, what i see with what you commented, could be compared with studying (only a few one likes to study, and making 3d is not a pleasure when the hobby turns into work). Some people needs someone forcing them to study (a personal teacher), because they won't do it by theirselves. Without a teacher saying them, do this, and this, or giving them work to do... they don't do anything. Initiative and creativity is a must for us.
This same thing happens in too many studios, where the workers just focus on their tasks, they finish their daily job, and they close page for another day. At home they don't know what to do, they lack of creativity/ideas or "desires to work again". Like in Chess, there are the knights & bishops guys, and the 3dmonkeys, pawns following orders. It's very weird to see someone doing extra art in their houses.
What i see with adio38 is that he doesn't know what to do. he hasn't got a goal, nor determination as i already stated. The best way to stay motivated is to have a goal/compensation. It's all what i can say by experience, and what i see is that he does not like this as much as others do.
Things are not always black/white, that's true, and i can verify that due to excesive amount of work / fatigue. I've been depressed too many times, without motivation, but i think this is not the case. I have also commisioned some works i disliked a lot, but as a professional, we must do what it's needed, with or without motivation.
You may think whatever you want, but this is my opinion. And sorry if i sound harsh.
It pretty much is true, motivation only comes from so many places and the two most overwhelming are enjoyment and external stress (like a school or work deadline...) You're either doing something because you want to or because you're afraid of the consequences of not doing it. I think Blaizer's pov is REALLY simplified tho.
Enjoyment isn't a static/fixed concept and it isn't a YES/NO thing. Not enjoying something doesn't mean you hate it, and enjoying something doesn't mean you enjoy it all the time with no burn-out. And sadly just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you enjoy it as much as you need to succeed at it.
The larger problem with art is that you can't just enjoy it some of the time and succeed at it, you have to be approaching a point of obsessive behavior. It's not enough to only enjoy making good work, you have to be compelled enough to get through all the resistance that comes with the waves and waves of garbage that you're going to inevitably produce. So the issue isn't that people don't enjoy it, it's that they don't enjoy it enough.
I think people with crippling motivational issues who insist they "really do love working so much!!!" are simply bullshitting themselves because the idea of being a great artist and making games seems so appealing to them that they want to like it and the alternative is devastating because it means admitting that they simply don't enjoy making art enough. Which is a HUGE blow to the ego and a difficult pill for most people to swallow, especially when they've spent their whole lives convincing themselves they're artists. There's a lot at stake there psychologically.
But having said that, the things people enjoy change with time and circumstances. People who exercise and develop a routine enjoy it a lot more and want to do it more than people who don't. People also tend to enjoy things they're already good at, this is really difficult to manage with art which is why the people who succeed are often the ones who started with art in childhood when they were less impatient.
So if you want any advice to increase your motivation/enjoyment imo this is it: Develop a routine/habit, do your work, and get better at it.
Not at all, Blaizer, I think you've made yourself pretty clear without being rude. Your latest comment is actually pretty reasonable(not saying that all of your previous ones weren't). Many people brush hard working people off with comments like "they've just spent a lot of time doing that.. If I were to do it I would do it at least as good" which is the entire point of becoming good, otherwise you're just lucky. Discipline is the key and in order to get good you need lots of training, it doesn't matter what it is.
My recommendation to adio38, and other people out there in a similar situation, is to just create anything. It doesn't have to appeal to everyone, just do something you like doing. At least this will get the ball rolling...
The grass is always greener on the other side. I was in the OP shoes and now I am working I am so angry when I dont have the time some days to do any work. It really pisses me off.
Its been quite interesting to read the differing views from many of the artists on here that I admire so much. I guess in some way I always kind of thought of you as Zen masters on your mountains of Art, like shaolin monks with a Wacom. But I guess your all human like the rest of us and your opinions differ greatly. At the end of the day though the one constant in all the opinions expressed in this is that to do well you gotta work damn hard and sometimes half the battle is forcing youreself to work even when you dont really feel like it.
I always knew this was the case but I think after reading this I could push myself a little harder, I work every day but I could probably get up earlier and squeeze a few more hours in. Compared to lots of other people in other industries working this hard on personal work seems insane but I guess it will be worth it in the end.
It's a big list of awesome portfolios of polycounters that Alec Moody compiled together. Just look through some of those portfolios. The first thoughts through your head will be negative, I guarantee it. You'll be amazed by their work, and at the same time, you'll have a feeling of dread, like you are way behind and "will never get that good". I know that because I've been there. Those negative thoughts are bullshit, complete and absolute bullshit. You need to get into a positive, productive attitude and see portfolios like those as inspiration. That's what I do. Look at people's awesome work, realize it took them years to get there, and get down the path to becoming an awesome artist ASAP. I won't cover the process as it's been discussed by people in this thread already (find some concept art, start an environment, etc etc), I'm just trying to help motivate you. Hopefully I'm helping and not failing miserably.
Anyway, what motivates me is knowing that one day, my portfolio might be on a list like that. One day, I can be as good as them. One day, I can get a job at an awesome game studio working with some of the awesome people on these forums. But you have to work toward it, one step at a time. That begins with making art that you will look back on 3 years from now and laugh. So don't get into the habit of starting work, and scrapping it after a couple days' work because it's "not good enough". Learn from your mistakes, and post your progress on Polycount so people can give you feedback, and you can improve. Because if you don't follow that bit of advice, you can get into the rut of starting and scrapping dozens of projects, and you won't get anywhere. Trust me, I've been there as well, as have friends of mine.
You asked about if you should do characters, props, or enviros. That's not something we can answer. That's like getting into politics and asking if you should be a democrat or a republican. It's not something anyone else can answer, that alone is up to you. Maybe you should dabble in a little of each early on, to get a taste of everything. But in the end you need to go with what you enjoy doing. I think that character modeling is a lot more competitive than the other art fields, but that shouldn't discourage you if it's something you really want to do.
In the end, this career is about doing something you enjoy. That's why it's so competitive, and that's why it's so important that you enjoy what you are doing before you make a career out of it.
Oh yeah, and just for fun, here's my work in early 2009:
And here's my work now:
I worked on this stuff on the side while I was (and still am) in school. Trust me, if I can do it, anyone can. It just takes a lot of time and dedication.
Pretty sure he was mocking the OP, making a comment on how there's no simple solution like taking a vitamin.
Haha, my bad. In hindsight I think he might've been joking, but certain vitamins can help with this kind of thing. Vitamin C in high doses (1000mg) reduces stress (if thinking about work is stressing you out) Vitamin B6 can also do this, as well as making a person happier (something to do with serotonin) Magnesium should also be taken if you are drinking a lot of caffeine, as caffeine depletes magnesium levels. Omega 3 fish oil is also meant to be a miracle for increasing energy levels and general well being.
On top of all this (and I think this has been mentioned) but exercise has also been proven to make a person feel happier, this might then make you want to get to work on your 3D.
This is all a bit off topic, but this kind of thing may help, im no pharmacist, but it might be worth looking into OP. Then again, I've found that if im at all having one of these kind of moments about work, the simple act of working makes me forget about any preceding lack of motivation as I tend to immerse myself in what I'm doing. I think you might just be thinking too much about it, switch off your brain and get creative. While im more on the side of 'if you dont like doing it, dont do it' argument, I think theres a very grey area in between. It's important to remember why you got into all this, everyone knows you're unlikely to get rich from this, everyone knows you're job security isn't going to be great, and everyone knows how much time and sacrifice it will take to make it, but at the end of the day, do you really want to do something you'll hate for the rest of your life?
On a last note about motivation, what keeps me going is that as long as what im currently working on is better that what I have previously worked on, then I guess im pretty happy, enabling me to tackle the next piece of work.
If it's staring at a blank screen that scares you...
There are these tiles on the wall when I go to the toilet. They're these fractal-type shapes; I don't know what material. And every time I sit there waiting for my business to get done, I end up seeing these awesome shapes that form a whole bunch of different potential pieces of art: Arabian warriors running down the sand with swords raised, an old king sitting on a throne with some canine over his lap, a thorned hand rising out of the ground to overpower a rider on a rearing horse, and countless other possible shapes.
I don't reeeeally believe in finding inspiration by Googling stuff and doing online "research" (although real research is important) because I feel that most people end up wasting their time, somehow finding their way back to Failbook/Twithead. But being able to look elsewhere for more abstract forms of inspiration, paint splats, ink blots, dirt, clouds, marble, tea leaves, etc. helps me sometimes when I'm feeling uninspired with personal work.
It pretty much is true, motivation only comes from so many places and the two most overwhelming are enjoyment and external stress (like a school or work deadline...) You're either doing something because you want to or because you're afraid of the consequences of not doing it. I think Blaizer's pov is REALLY simplified tho.
Enjoyment isn't a static/fixed concept and it isn't a YES/NO thing. Not enjoying something doesn't mean you hate it, and enjoying something doesn't mean you enjoy it all the time with no burn-out. And sadly just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you enjoy it as much as you need to succeed at it.
The larger problem with art is that you can't just enjoy it some of the time and succeed at it, you have to be approaching a point of obsessive behavior. It's not enough to only enjoy making good work, you have to be compelled enough to get through all the resistance that comes with the waves and waves of garbage that you're going to inevitably produce. So the issue isn't that people don't enjoy it, it's that they don't enjoy it enough.
I think people with crippling motivational issues who insist they "really do love working so much!!!" are simply bullshitting themselves because the idea of being a great artist and making games seems so appealing to them that they want to like it and the alternative is devastating because it means admitting that they simply don't enjoy making art enough. Which is a HUGE blow to the ego and a difficult pill for most people to swallow, especially when they've spent their whole lives convincing themselves they're artists. There's a lot at stake there psychologically.
But having said that, the things people enjoy change with time and circumstances. People who exercise and develop a routine enjoy it a lot more and want to do it more than people who don't. People also tend to enjoy things they're already good at, this is really difficult to manage with art which is why the people who succeed are often the ones who started with art in childhood when they were less impatient.
So if you want any advice to increase your motivation/enjoyment imo this is it: Develop a routine/habit, do your work, and get better at it.
You're definitely not alone in this. Drawing from my own experience, I think there is an expectation of sorts that when you graduate from college big things will start to happen. But when that amazing job offer doesn't land at your feet or you find yourself in a funk, as many of us have, it's hard to come away from that unscathed. Are you considering relocating for a position? Being open minded as to where you work is a big step in finding a job, especially when it comes to working in such a niche industry. I can't offer you any peace of mind, since I think that comes internally, but I do wish you the best of luck. Hang in there, things will happen.
Replies
I think the problem is that you're pairing the OP up with people you know who also have motivation problems. The difference is that the op stated that he was very motivated in school; You do bring up some great points though, Blaizer, but it's not as black and white as you make it out to be. There is a gray area where "lost" artists are and I've met plenty of great artists who have been having major motivation problems when they want to work on their free time. Heck, most of the people I've worked with didn't work on their free time at all and they still love what they do. The best artists however are the ones you speak of, the ones who work on improving themselves during their free time rather than letting their jobs do all of that for them.
This same thing happens in too many studios, where the workers just focus on their tasks, they finish their daily job, and they close page for another day. At home they don't know what to do, they lack of creativity/ideas or "desires to work again". Like in Chess, there are the knights & bishops guys, and the 3dmonkeys, pawns following orders. It's very weird to see someone doing extra art in their houses.
What i see with adio38 is that he doesn't know what to do. he hasn't got a goal, nor determination as i already stated. The best way to stay motivated is to have a goal/compensation. It's all what i can say by experience, and what i see is that he does not like this as much as others do.
Things are not always black/white, that's true, and i can verify that due to excesive amount of work / fatigue. I've been depressed too many times, without motivation, but i think this is not the case. I have also commisioned some works i disliked a lot, but as a professional, we must do what it's needed, with or without motivation.
You may think whatever you want, but this is my opinion. And sorry if i sound harsh.
Enjoyment isn't a static/fixed concept and it isn't a YES/NO thing. Not enjoying something doesn't mean you hate it, and enjoying something doesn't mean you enjoy it all the time with no burn-out. And sadly just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you enjoy it as much as you need to succeed at it.
The larger problem with art is that you can't just enjoy it some of the time and succeed at it, you have to be approaching a point of obsessive behavior. It's not enough to only enjoy making good work, you have to be compelled enough to get through all the resistance that comes with the waves and waves of garbage that you're going to inevitably produce. So the issue isn't that people don't enjoy it, it's that they don't enjoy it enough.
I think people with crippling motivational issues who insist they "really do love working so much!!!" are simply bullshitting themselves because the idea of being a great artist and making games seems so appealing to them that they want to like it and the alternative is devastating because it means admitting that they simply don't enjoy making art enough. Which is a HUGE blow to the ego and a difficult pill for most people to swallow, especially when they've spent their whole lives convincing themselves they're artists. There's a lot at stake there psychologically.
But having said that, the things people enjoy change with time and circumstances. People who exercise and develop a routine enjoy it a lot more and want to do it more than people who don't. People also tend to enjoy things they're already good at, this is really difficult to manage with art which is why the people who succeed are often the ones who started with art in childhood when they were less impatient.
So if you want any advice to increase your motivation/enjoyment imo this is it: Develop a routine/habit, do your work, and get better at it.
My recommendation to adio38, and other people out there in a similar situation, is to just create anything. It doesn't have to appeal to everyone, just do something you like doing. At least this will get the ball rolling...
Its been quite interesting to read the differing views from many of the artists on here that I admire so much. I guess in some way I always kind of thought of you as Zen masters on your mountains of Art, like shaolin monks with a Wacom. But I guess your all human like the rest of us and your opinions differ greatly. At the end of the day though the one constant in all the opinions expressed in this is that to do well you gotta work damn hard and sometimes half the battle is forcing youreself to work even when you dont really feel like it.
I always knew this was the case but I think after reading this I could push myself a little harder, I work every day but I could probably get up earlier and squeeze a few more hours in. Compared to lots of other people in other industries working this hard on personal work seems insane but I guess it will be worth it in the end.
Eventually you will earn that feeling of "being an awesome modeler".
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92838
It's a big list of awesome portfolios of polycounters that Alec Moody compiled together. Just look through some of those portfolios. The first thoughts through your head will be negative, I guarantee it. You'll be amazed by their work, and at the same time, you'll have a feeling of dread, like you are way behind and "will never get that good". I know that because I've been there. Those negative thoughts are bullshit, complete and absolute bullshit. You need to get into a positive, productive attitude and see portfolios like those as inspiration. That's what I do. Look at people's awesome work, realize it took them years to get there, and get down the path to becoming an awesome artist ASAP. I won't cover the process as it's been discussed by people in this thread already (find some concept art, start an environment, etc etc), I'm just trying to help motivate you. Hopefully I'm helping and not failing miserably.
Anyway, what motivates me is knowing that one day, my portfolio might be on a list like that. One day, I can be as good as them. One day, I can get a job at an awesome game studio working with some of the awesome people on these forums. But you have to work toward it, one step at a time. That begins with making art that you will look back on 3 years from now and laugh. So don't get into the habit of starting work, and scrapping it after a couple days' work because it's "not good enough". Learn from your mistakes, and post your progress on Polycount so people can give you feedback, and you can improve. Because if you don't follow that bit of advice, you can get into the rut of starting and scrapping dozens of projects, and you won't get anywhere. Trust me, I've been there as well, as have friends of mine.
You asked about if you should do characters, props, or enviros. That's not something we can answer. That's like getting into politics and asking if you should be a democrat or a republican. It's not something anyone else can answer, that alone is up to you. Maybe you should dabble in a little of each early on, to get a taste of everything. But in the end you need to go with what you enjoy doing. I think that character modeling is a lot more competitive than the other art fields, but that shouldn't discourage you if it's something you really want to do.
In the end, this career is about doing something you enjoy. That's why it's so competitive, and that's why it's so important that you enjoy what you are doing before you make a career out of it.
Oh yeah, and just for fun, here's my work in early 2009:
And here's my work now:
I worked on this stuff on the side while I was (and still am) in school. Trust me, if I can do it, anyone can. It just takes a lot of time and dedication.
turned out to be a vitamin shortage
I'm curious, what vitamin?
Pretty sure he was mocking the OP, making a comment on how there's no simple solution like taking a vitamin.
Haha, my bad. In hindsight I think he might've been joking, but certain vitamins can help with this kind of thing. Vitamin C in high doses (1000mg) reduces stress (if thinking about work is stressing you out) Vitamin B6 can also do this, as well as making a person happier (something to do with serotonin) Magnesium should also be taken if you are drinking a lot of caffeine, as caffeine depletes magnesium levels. Omega 3 fish oil is also meant to be a miracle for increasing energy levels and general well being.
On top of all this (and I think this has been mentioned) but exercise has also been proven to make a person feel happier, this might then make you want to get to work on your 3D.
This is all a bit off topic, but this kind of thing may help, im no pharmacist, but it might be worth looking into OP. Then again, I've found that if im at all having one of these kind of moments about work, the simple act of working makes me forget about any preceding lack of motivation as I tend to immerse myself in what I'm doing. I think you might just be thinking too much about it, switch off your brain and get creative. While im more on the side of 'if you dont like doing it, dont do it' argument, I think theres a very grey area in between. It's important to remember why you got into all this, everyone knows you're unlikely to get rich from this, everyone knows you're job security isn't going to be great, and everyone knows how much time and sacrifice it will take to make it, but at the end of the day, do you really want to do something you'll hate for the rest of your life?
On a last note about motivation, what keeps me going is that as long as what im currently working on is better that what I have previously worked on, then I guess im pretty happy, enabling me to tackle the next piece of work.
Hope this rambling has helped somewhat OP.
There are these tiles on the wall when I go to the toilet. They're these fractal-type shapes; I don't know what material. And every time I sit there waiting for my business to get done, I end up seeing these awesome shapes that form a whole bunch of different potential pieces of art: Arabian warriors running down the sand with swords raised, an old king sitting on a throne with some canine over his lap, a thorned hand rising out of the ground to overpower a rider on a rearing horse, and countless other possible shapes.
I don't reeeeally believe in finding inspiration by Googling stuff and doing online "research" (although real research is important) because I feel that most people end up wasting their time, somehow finding their way back to Failbook/Twithead. But being able to look elsewhere for more abstract forms of inspiration, paint splats, ink blots, dirt, clouds, marble, tea leaves, etc. helps me sometimes when I'm feeling uninspired with personal work.
im not joking
http://www.orthomol.de/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-54/175_read-135/
That whole post is spot on, well said man
hahaha story of my life!:\
This is why there's a tool lablled "Relax"