It's not easy like that, you can't let something go that is coming to you.
The only way to fully embrace the pirates is to give away what you made for free, there's no middleground.
As many has said though, piracy exists and there's really nothing you can do to stop it, but there's also little point to try to cater to the pirates or give them what they want, focus on the paying customers to give them the best and least hindered experience.
Pirates exist and they're regular normal people, no prison-hardened criminals, but there's really nothing that makes them more holy or glorious than anyone else.
It's not easy like that, you can't let something go that is coming to you.
The only way to fully embrace the pirates is to give away what you made for free, there's no middleground.
As many has said though, piracy exists and there's really nothing you can do to stop it, but there's also little point to try to cater to the pirates or give them what they want, focus on the paying customers to give them the best and least hindered experience.
Indeed, figures supporting 'converted pirates' are as inaccurate as the piracy figures themselves. What can be done is actions that increase custom and reduce the desire for that custom to embrace piracy.
Indeed, figures supporting 'converted pirates' are as inaccurate as the piracy figures themselves. What can be done is actions that increase custom and reduce the desire for that custom to embrace piracy.
That is true, but that's another one of those loose facts like "damage due to piracy" that cannot be measured, there's really no guarantee of convertion, just as much as making a good game is no guarantee at all that it wont be pirated any less.
That is true, but that's another one of those loose facts like "damage due to piracy" that cannot be measured, there's really no guarantee of convertion, just as much as making a good game is no guarantee at all that it wont be pirated any less.
Actually it would get pirated more, but also it should sell more. There are no guarantees in this world, only calculated guesses. A 'good game' is subjective and sales don't always follow the trend. Yet I can still imagine the horrific fate of any underrated, underselling gems of gaming... if they weren't gems.
Can't find any real information about this, just people talking about 1 guy getting fired, a couple of programmers laid off and at the end of the thread people getting hired.
"Eurogamer's report cites an anonymous source inside Black Rock who said Disney has been unable to give half of the studio any work since mid-December. "It seems Disney have been unable to provide us with a project to work on, and our concept pitches clearly haven't gone down well (despite there being many of them)," said the source. "
I'm sorry but I don't see how this has anything to do with piracy at all JacqueChoi.
Not measurable true, but not saying that piracy had anything to do with it is as bad as saying that piracy had everything to do with it. People not buying a product will affect sales in the end, no matter if they would've bought it or not.
I would bet that in these scenarios, these economic situations could've been avoided if everyone who enjoyed the game actually paid for it, I'm not saying that it ever would've happened or that companies should plan around everyone actually buying their product, as everyone wont, even if they enjoy it or not.
While the theory is sound, this isn't really how it works in the real world. Just look at the humble indy bundle thing, when given the choice to legally buy the game for virtually nothing, the majority of consumers DECIDE to pay a reaonable amount for a product that is in infinite supply. If the "zero price" theory had merit in the real world, you would never see that.
Its any interesting theory, and he makes a very good point about alternative methods for revenue, but it isn't as cut as dry as "digital goods have no price", I mean really, thats simply nonsensical. It could be how you would like it to work, but its not how it actually works in reality.
There is a reason for that. Things like the Humble Indie Bundle actually provides an incentive to pay (i.e. charity and the freedom to pay what you think its worth). That's one way that can mitigate the issue of abundance. People will still buy games if they feel they are worth paying for or have some reason that's important to them to buy it. Which is why media companies should look into shifting their model more to a service rather than a product-based model. Eventually, they won't need to sell the games anymore, the games will sell the services instead and the games will be how they reach new customers.
The economist in the video, Mike Masnick, has his own business model that he uses on his own business called "Connect with Fans + Reason to Buy" or CwF+RtB. The plan requires that the content creator makes a real social connection with his audience, increasing their involvement with their beloved content, and provides compelling reasons to buy directly from the creator. The key is to offer a truly compelling reason for people to open their wallets rather than their torrent manager. It's not an absolute solution, there aren't any and it's not the only one. I feel it's a far better option than trying to beat on the public with laws that only work if people respect them (which they don't).
Not measurable true, but not saying that piracy had anything to do with it is as bad as saying that piracy had everything to do with it. People not buying a product will affect sales in the end, no matter if they would've bought it or not.
I would bet that in these scenarios, these economic situations could've been avoided if everyone who enjoyed the game actually paid for it, I'm not saying that it ever would've happened or that companies should plan around everyone actually buying their product, as everyone wont, even if they enjoy it or not.
While piracy will have an effect on sales and the economic situation of studios, I'm a firm believer that bad management, bad investments, ripoffs, rushed products and publishers forcing insane deadlines are hurting this industry much more then piracy ever will and those issues will not get 0,1% of the attention piracy has gotten so far.
While piracy will have an effect on sales and the economic situation of studios, I'm a firm believer that bad management, bad investments, ripoffs, rushed products and publishers forcing insane deadlines are hurting this industry much more then piracy ever will and those issues will not get 0,1% of the attention piracy has gotten so far.
I agree. It's really the suits at the top that harm the games industry the most for the above reasons. It's typical when there's a problem that people will blame everyone else before they blame themselves. In addition to that, I think it's their reaction to the infringement issue that hurts most developers. They want to make a profit, so they invest in studios they think will accomplish that, but they see people downloading the games for free and assume they aren't getting as much profit as they feel entitled to. So, they cut funding, cancel projects, and close entire studios because it wasn't profitableenough. I don't think many games from the more talented studios that have been canned ever put out a game that didn't make at least some profit. It's just that they didn't bring in CoD:MW levels of profit and publishers get reluctant to continue to fund them. Really, how many games have been put out from the majors that didn't make any profit?
They assume that since people are downloading the game that they would otherwise pay for it barring the option to download for free, but it's because the publisher expects CoD levels of success with poor planning, bad time management, and unrealistic expectations of performance in the market that really damages the games industry. It's a foolish notion to believe that taking away utility and convenience will increase the value of goods in the eye of the consumer, it actually makes them value it less. Make a shit game (or even a good one) that's behind an unfriendly pay-wall and you will just encourage people to bypass the wall and access the game for nothing. The conflict between infringement and profitability is a service issue. Offer a better service than the one they get for free and provide better quality games. That will get you more business.
While piracy will have an effect on sales and the economic situation of studios, I'm a firm believer that bad management, bad investments, ripoffs, rushed products and publishers forcing insane deadlines are hurting this industry much more then piracy ever will and those issues will not get 0,1% of the attention piracy has gotten so far.
No I agree, I wouldn't exclude any cause really, what I was saying was that it's as stupid to exclude piracy as any kind of harm-doer as it is to say it is the only problem.
The only way to go around it is to plan a certain percentage of piracy amongst your target-group and budget around the percentage that will actually buy your game, but this isn't really an easy problem just like that.
And again, I just had this tiny happy vision of where just a small portion of the pirates of some game could've pushed some products into surviving instead of not going round on it, and these being the pirates that actually enjoyed the product much like any other consumer.
And I know it doesn't work like that, and it will never work like that, it's just one of those "If only", as some people might fail to realize some game could've used that extra bit of support.
Piracy still is and will always be this immeasurable problem that cannot be stopped, but there's no RIGHT in it other than it being in some cases a necessary evil or side-effect of our much needed freedom and anonymity on the internet, which I for one want to keep.
I'm sorry but I don't see how this has anything to do with piracy at all JacqueChoi.
So most of what you mentioned were results of 'cost cutting' measures, or re-alignments for financial issues.
Yet you see no correlation with the financial stringency, and that MANY people are NOT PAYING for the product they play?
I'm not saying there's a direct line there, but you'd be hard pressed to tell me there isn't any connection at all. Very surprised you take press releases at face value, and not fodder given to appease shareholders.
So most of what you mentioned were results of 'cost cutting' measures, or re-alignments for financial issues.
Yet you see no correlation with the financial stringency, and that MANY people are NOT PAYING for the product?
I'm not saying there's a direct line there, but you'd be hard pressed to tell me there isn't any connection at all. Very surprised you take press releases at face value, and not fodder given to appease shareholders.
Cool story.
To say Piracy doesn't affect the bottom line of the games industry, is about as asinine as saying piracy has had no effect on the music industry.
Well, file sharing has had an impact on the music industry, a positive impact. It has enabled independent artists to bypass the entire recording industry and sell direct to their fans. The recording industry is the only segment that could possibly be thought of as being harmed by this because they have been made irrelevant and obsolete. Thanks to "piracy" the music industry is growing, for the artists' benefit, not the record labels. Artists have more access to their fans and vice versa, which creates some great business opportunities.
As far as its impact on the games industry, that's entirely due to publishers freaking out when they see people downloading games for free and then yanking funding from studios, canceling projects, and laying people off because of it. Despite infringement of these games, most do still make a profit (unless they are utter shit), yet studios get closed regardless while blaming the rampant downloading. It's just not as much profit as they think they should have. They don't lay people off because the games aren't making a profit. They do it because the profit isn't as big as they would like it and pull funding for that studio.
Well, file sharing has had an impact on the music industry, a positive impact
File sharing is not piracy, and modern sharing methods having a positive impact does not have to do with piracy, it can just as well be a band that gave out their songs for free to increase awareness, note: their own choice of marketing.
As far as its impact on the games industry, that's entirely due to publishers freaking out when they see people downloading games for free and then yanking funding from studios, canceling projects, and laying people off because of it. Despite infringement of these games, most do still make a profit (unless they are utter shit)
No, they wont yank funding from a studio that is bringing them money, despite of a title being pirated, it's when the studio fails to bring profit that they'll end them, every game will be pirated.
And as we've already been through a massive number of times, a game being shit or not does not decide the fate in piracy.
Simple solution to piracy: Dont publish for pc. Simple as. If people are going to abuse having access to the game's files then don't let anyone have them. Console piracy is far more detectable and alot more inconvenient than pc pirating. And most console players are average gamers who aren't very computer literate.
But in the end, pc is the minority market of game sales, they make almost all of their money from console sales. So the smallest percent of the sale areas has the highest rate of piracy. It isn't that much of a financial hinder.
Id be interested in seeing red dead redemption's piracy statistics compared to other games, as they didn't release it for pc.
As far as its impact on the games industry, that's entirely due to publishers freaking out when they see people downloading games for free and then yanking funding from studios, canceling projects, and laying people off because of it. Despite infringement of these games, most do still make a profit (unless they are utter shit), yet studios get closed regardless while blaming the rampant downloading. It's just not as much profit as they think they should have. They don't lay people off because the games aren't making a profit. They do it because the profit isn't as big as they would like it and pull funding for that studio.
What is your source for these claims? I would be very curious to see the numbers. Without any sort of factual evidence to support your claims this is 100% conjecture.
I think far more games than you would like to believe make little or no profit, but this is simply conjecture on my part as well. After development, marketing, QA, various licensing costs, distribution costs etc etc etc a lot of games pull in a lot less profit than you would think. Sure, revenue for most games is quite high, profit is another thing entirely.
Is it the fault of the publishers/developers who make these games that they aren't making much/any profit? Probably, I wouldn't blame this on piracy as there is a lot of cancerous mismanagement and shaddy practices going on in the games industry, as well as blatant incompetence. But I also wouldn't sit around and pretend like every game is making massive profits either.
You have to understand that pulling a profit not only means doing a little better than breaking even, but pulling enough of a profit to fund your next project(s), so you have to pull quite a decent profit to stay in business. If your game doesn't do well enough to fund more work, what do you expect the publisher to do? Give you a hug and a pile full of free money?
File sharing is not piracy, and modern sharing methods having a positive impact does not have to do with piracy, it can just as well be a band that gave out their songs for free to increase awareness, note: their own choice of marketing.
You misunderstand me. What I mean to say is that people sharing music has had a positive impact, illegal or not.
No, they wont yank funding from a studio that is bringing them money, despite of a title being pirated, it's when the studio fails to bring profit that they'll end them, every game will be pirated.
And as we've already been through a massive number of times, a game being shit or not does not decide the fate in piracy.
Actually the game's quality does effect how much it gets shared. People won't bother sharing crappy games. Some do, but it disappears from the sharing networks quickly.
Publishers do yank funding when a studio fails to make a large enough profit. That results in layoffs. They don't invest money where profits aren't as high as they project them. They will close studios that fail to profit.
What is your source for these claims? I would be very curious to see the numbers. Without any sort of factual evidence to support your claims this is 100% conjecture.
I think far more games than you would like to believe make little or no profit, but this is simply conjecture on my part as well. After development, marketing, QA, various licensing costs, distribution costs etc etc etc a lot of games pull in a lot less profit than you would think. Sure, revenue for most games is quite high, profit is another thing entirely.
Is it the fault of the publishers/developers who make these games that they aren't making much/any profit? Probably, I wouldn't blame this on piracy as there is a lot of cancerous mismanagement and shaddy practices going on in the games industry, as well as blatant incompetence. But I also wouldn't sit around and pretend like every game is making massive profits either.
It's only their fault that they aren't making profit so far as when they practice piss-poor management and planning. It's their fault for reacting to piracy as the reason they aren't making as much profit as they'd like and defunding studios that leads to layoffs. When profits aren't as big as they project, they blame everyone but themselves.
I can't recall where I read this, but studies have found that the same people that "pirate" media are also the people whom spend the most money on it.
It's only their fault that they aren't making profit so far as when they practice piss-poor management and planning. It's their fault for reacting to piracy as the reason they aren't making as much profit as they'd like and defunding studios that leads to layoffs. When profits aren't as big as they project, they blame everyone but themselves.
I can't recall where I read this, but studies have found that the same people that "pirate" media are also the people whom spend the most money on it.
Well unless you're privy to the sales figures for a large enough sample of games to suggest that people are being laid off because publishers aren't making *enough* of a profit, you're doing the same fact-less scapegoating that publishers who blame piracy for low sales are. You can't prove it nor can they. Why is it ok for you to do it, and not them?
Honestly, risk vs reward evaluation is part of every industry. If a product isn't pulling enough profit to hold its weight over the long term, it isn't a sound investment. So who really decides what is and isn't enough of a profit? I would say the guys with the money, it is their money after all, they are likely in the best position to make the choice.
Publishers sitting around blaming pirates, and pirates sitting around blaming fat cat suits are all in the same boat. The reality is likely somewhere in-between, piracy does have a negative effect on the industry, as do greedy and gun-shy investors/publishers.
Well, I've never said anything contrary to this. I actually agree with you on a lot of this stuff, it just drives me nuts how incredibly one sided your arguments tend to be.
Well, I've never said anything contrary to this. I actually agree with you on a lot of this stuff, it just drives me nuts how incredibly one sided your arguments tend to be.
I think that's the problem every time this comes up. Opinions becomes black and white, with no gray.
To me, the game industry is making the same mistakes the music industry did. They start losing profits, and they look for the nearest thing to blame. Pirating has always been the easy excuse. Sure, pirating will cause some loses, but I think it's never as deep as they claim. As it's already been stated, I don't think 1 illegal copy = 1 lost sale.
But, if the ultimate anti-piracy protection came out, the gaming companies would still do poorly. Like record companies, the game companies have continued business as usual for years. They continue charging $60 for games that suck, and they rip off the consumer. Then the consumer gets gun-shy when the next time they look for a game to plop that $60 on.
To top it off, they get a game like Halo, or CoD, and they waste millions on advertising. Why? Those games sell themselves. They should be spending money to advertise games that they know are good, but may not get the public's attention. And don't tell me that a studio doesn't know if the game they are working on is 'good'. I'm sure you guys have worked on games, that you knew was going to suck in the end.
They should be spending money to advertise games that they know are good, but may not get the public's attention. And don't tell me that a studio doesn't know if the game they are working on is 'good'. I'm sure you guys have worked on games, that you knew was going to suck in the end.
While I agree with that sentiment, business practices like marketing strategy and risk management don't. Not only are good games subjective but our understanding of the quality and its translation to sales are calculated guesses. Many people here (including the ones developing it) would consider Call of Duty a bad game, and Okami a brilliant one. Our knowledge of this wouldn't have helped as their sales speak for themselves.
Did Okami deserve more marketing than it had and Call of Duty less? Quite possibly, but the marketing department/risk management thinks differently: They'll go with a "Sure Thing" They'd rather pump more money into something that will already sell to boost it's sales and have more hype and people buying it than ever before, so they know they can always make more and keep the train going.
While I'm no economist or risk management expert, I would believe that a (not too balanced) balanced approach where your "high risk" project gets more marketing and exposure than it used to would be beneficial, with "sure things" being sure an all not needing so much. This could be bad business strategy but I do think that it's even worse to blow millions on a "high risk" in the first place with no effort to lessen that risk at all. Most good games that I have played that didn't sell appeared to have abysmally small market presence (or they were that goddamn obscure)
Did Okami deserve more marketing than it had and Call of Duty less? Quite possibly, but the marketing department/risk management thinks differently: They'll go with a "Sure Thing" They'd rather pump more money into something that will already sell to boost it's sales and have more hype and people buying it than ever before, so they know they can always make more and keep the train going.
See, but that's exactly my point. They don't understand where that money should go. They think it translates to making more money on the game that will already be doing well. I bet CoD would still have people lining up, without all the free shit, and promoting they do. I'm not saying to NOT promote it at all, but there's no need to pay Jonah Hill and Sam Worthington to make a commercial.
You don't need games to live. If you pirate games, you are probably a dick and an asshole. Instead of spending your time being an imaginary badass in a video game, put in slightly more work and become a real badass. Make money, and give some of it to the people who provide your entertainment.
Or not. The only reason I pirated games in the past was because I didnt feel like turning on my xbox to play them, and I never wanted my parents to ever enter credit card or paypal info on my computer (as a result of pirating)
Finally broke through that and steam is a godsend, its really simple and convenient. I still pirate games here and there to see if theyll run on my computer just as a mere demo (if one is not provided)
Yes I admit to pirating but everything I've pirated has pushed my decision to buy the legit version lol. I have never once pirated a game with the sole intention of playing through it and never buying it. The only game I think I ever played moderately that I pirated was Oblivion, only because I wanted to mess with mods and skyrim was around the corner anyway.
Yes I bought skyrim.
In all honesty when I was high in pirating, the sites I used were full of despicable people that really piss me off. They claim game publishers are "greedy bastards" and all that jazz and they think everything should be free. That is NOT my viewpoint. But ever since I bought Medal of Honor and Deadrising 2 and returned them both the very next day for $30 at gamestop I will never buy a game that is new to me only judging by the previews, it no longer cuts it for me.
You don't need games to live. If you pirate games, you are probably a dick and an asshole. Instead of spending your time being an imaginary badass in a video game, put in slightly more work and become a real badass. Make money, and give some of it to the people who provide your entertainment.
No you don't need them to live, but many live to play them. Some put so much of their life into absorbing their gaming habits that it becomes clear that they would never have been able to afford it all or if they had their life would be about the work needed to pursue it more than the time to indulge. I would have trouble questioning their commitment to video games even if their priorities and morals are askew.
Of course there are people I know who pirate everything and never spend a dime, I can't save the same respect for them, I mean where does the cookie crumble?
You don't need games to live. If you pirate games, you are probably a dick and an asshole. Instead of spending your time being an imaginary badass in a video game, put in slightly more work and become a real badass. Make money, and give some of it to the people who provide your entertainment.
That is all.
I'm not gonna label you and please don't take this as a personal attack, but I can't help wondering how people that says lines like you just did actually use pirated software when they started to learn their craft. When I started learning 3d it was clear that if I wanted to make it in the danish 3d industry, 3Ds Max and V-Ray were the only way to go, and this was way before the new Autdoesk Student deal where you actually get the software for free as long as you are studying and don't use it for commercial art. Now I'm lucky enough to have a legal copy of 3Ds Max because I'm studying and I can tap into my company's V-Ray license bundle if I need to use it at home.
I'm 99.999% sure that most people on this forum started out with a pirated copy of 3Ds Max/Maya/Modo/Hudini/Whatever and a pirated Photoshop.
No you don't need them to live, but many live to play them. Some put so much of their life into absorbing their gaming habits that it becomes clear that they would never have been able to afford it all or if they had their life would be about the work needed to pursue it more than the time to indulge. I would have trouble questioning their commitment to video games even if their priorities and morals are askew.
There's more free games out there than anyone will ever be able to play in his lifetime, no one really needs the games you pay for, they're a luxury where there are ton of other games for free.
I think you're missing my point here. My point is; "Pirates gonna Pirate", no two ways about it. I'm not saying you need to embrace them; What I'm saying is, let go of the idea that there is a means to stop them. It's like quicksand, don't struggle against it, it will only take you faster. What's necessary is to come up with new, and better ways to entice players towards giving you their hard earned cash. If that means subscription models and micro-transactions, then that's just how it's gotta be now.
No I actually agree with that first thing, as I've mentioned earlier in my posts, there really isn't any way to stop piracy without going all out SOPA on the internet, which is real bad.
But many(most) pirates are looking for the legalization of it, and the one thing deveopers still have left is the community stigma associated with pirating a game, people will mark you as a bad person for good reasons, so companies should stop pushing with drm, but they shouldn't give ground in any way.
But once again, in some places of the internet you're the bad person if you say that someone should support a company instead of pirating their product.
I think it's a matter of expectations, publisher/developers ambitions are too lofty. If your game fails it's because it cost more money to make than it earned back, regardless to why that is, the obvious realization has to be that you spent too much money on it. Either development cost's need to be dialed down, or revenue needs to be maximized through other means. Like I said "Do something different"
True, and many have moved that way, with community based games and micro-transactions like there was nothing else.
You don't need games to live. If you pirate games, you are probably a dick and an asshole. Instead of spending your time being an imaginary badass in a video game, put in slightly more work and become a real badass. Make money, and give some of it to the people who provide your entertainment.
That is all.
QFW
If anone wants a legal copy of Dead Space 2, send me a pm.
We need to support our industry. I know perfectly that a ~90% of the polycount users play pirated games. The worst, is that videogame industry workers are pirates aswell, i know to many of them from here and i feel repugnance. All is a pure hipocrisy. If your condition is to be pirate, you will want all for free. Piracy is a matter of morality.
To all the wannabes here with pro-piracy comments: so you want to work making games? forget it, because as you may know, if you get a work, you will be exposed to be fired easily.
1 pirated copy is not a loss, but from the massive amount of ilegal downloaded copies of games, there are losses and that's a fact. Noone will pay for a "game" when it's "for free" in the internet (notice that i wrote "game"... because games nowadays have zero value, ppl are customed to have all them 4free).
Said that, i will give a copy of DEAD SPACE 2 to a regular user on polycount, i will choose one from all the pms. And i do this just to put example, because games are NOT EXPENSIVE. If you pirate games you are simplily a dick without morality/education, a terrible bad person.
One thing are games and another thing are those expensive softwares we could not afford on its day. We must not forget that, never!.
QFW
If anone wants a legal copy of Dead Space 2, send me a pm.
We need to support our industry. I know perfectly that a ~90% of the polycount users play pirated games. The worst, is that videogame industry workers are pirates aswell, i know to many of them from here and i feel repugnance. All is a pure hipocrisy. If your condition is to be pirate, you will want all for free. Piracy is a matter of morality.
To all the wannabes here with pro-piracy comments: so you want to work making games? forget it, because as you may know, if you get a work, you will be exposed to be fired easily.
1 pirated copy is not a loss, but from the massive amount of ilegal downloaded copies of games, there are losses and that's a fact. Noone will pay for a "game" when it's "for free" in the internet (notice that i wrote "game"... because games nowadays have zero value, ppl are customed to have all them 4free).
Said that, i will give a copy of DEAD SPACE 2 to a regular user on polycount, i will choose one from all the pms. And i do this just to put example, because games are NOT EXPENSIVE. If you pirate games you are simplily a dick without morality/education, a terrible bad person.
But couldn't the same arguement be used? Just because its expensive doesnt give you the right to say "Hey, fuck it.. Its okay I pirate everyone elses hardwork because their software is expensive... But as soon as we talk about 60 dollar games, burn the witches!"
There alternatives to 3Ds Max and Photoshop, even 'great' free alternatives, but people in this industry just doesn't see it justified the same way.. You DONT have to have 3ds max, just as you DON'T need to play video games.. But we still choose to, and some people pirates both while others buy student licenses etc.
If you hate on game piracy but used pirated software to learn your trade and justify it because 'it's expensive, so it's okay', you are nearly as hypocritical as you can be.
If you hate on game piracy but used pirated software to learn your trade and justify it because 'it's expensive, so it's okay', you are nearly as hypocritical as you can be.
It's complicated though when you bring in that into the discussion, as it easily just nullifies everyone's opinion, and on one can have any believes anymore.
I used to pirate stuff back in the days, and nowadays I have a bunch of old dos games that I certainly never ever paid for, but when it comes to new stuff I either get the game when it launches, or wait for a sale if I don't feel like I can afford it.
It's not about who is a pirate and who is not, as everyone has at some point, more or less pirated something which makes everyone a pirate, it's about to, to ones full ability try to avoid to pirate anything, support games that you truly enjoy, or avoid pirating them at all.
Just a tiny bit of effort from everyone can go all the way in helping companies that can use the support.
It's complicated though when you bring in that into the discussion, as it easily just nullifies everyone's opinion, and on one can have any believes anymore.
I used to pirate stuff back in the days, and nowadays I have a bunch of old dos games that I certainly never ever paid for, but when it comes to new stuff I either get the game when it launches, or wait for a sale if I don't feel like I can afford it.
It's not about who is a pirate and who is not, as everyone has at some point, more or less pirated something which makes everyone a pirate, it's about to, to ones full ability try to avoid to pirate anything, support games that you truly enjoy, or avoid pirating them at all.
Just a tiny bit of effort from everyone can go all the way in helping companies that can use the support.
True, I fully agree with you, and as you point out, piracy is such a hard thing to get around because everyone will have different opinions. But I just like to point out when you use such a vocal 'damnation' of pirates because they are hitting the industry you work in, but actually download the software you use everyday or music you listen to, it's hypocrisy that I find annoying. Support people who's game, software or music you are using, but don't use the price as a middleway for you to download illegal software but shout at people who pirate games.
I'm not gonna label you and please don't take this as a personal attack, but I can't help wondering how people that says lines like you just did actually use pirated software when they started to learn their craft.
It is not rocket science to notice that 3DS Max is not a game, and in fact a lot of people in this forum need this software to live. That is why I say "games" above.
Its not about the games being expensive or people having hate towards the creators or Sony Nintindy, Microsoft its the mindset people have when they pirate anything
By default one would think "I don't know these people and i don't care about them as they don't care about me its just a free short game and Im just one person its not like I'm doing any damage to there business/Income"
Now theres hundreds of thousands thinking this not just one and thats the problem i use to think like that its not because one cant AFFORD the game they can afford the console a power supply, living expenses but cant afford a New/Used copy?!?! Shit i can get mass effect 1 and 2 for 10$ right now from a few places but being a money loving tard of a human would I really SPEND it if i could get it WITHOUT spending it and keep the money to spend on something els while having BOTH items instead of ONE?!!? Honestly! If you can steal without getting caught Im sure you would steal it unless you take pride in the hard work that was done for your enjoyment. If you want it NOW and think hey ill just buy it later but never get around to buying it thus you end up doing it again until a vicious cycle is created ending with you being hundreds in debt to the industry for piracy and not giving a care because you think you cant be caught.
Its not they they CANT its that they don't want to get up and go pay for it or just spend any money they can keep. I have a friend whom knows nothing of piracy yet he knows what can be done with it so he constantly asks for help from me or other friends to get him a free game or 5 or a free movie or 10 or a few episodes of some Anime or all 600. We don't help him for a many of reasons
People are lazy, stupid, greedy and 80% of the time useless they want stuff to be cheep as possible and most of the time free IF possible. Got another friend who would rather use a cracked Maya than sign up for a student license because its easier, quick and at the same time free just as using a student license would be....
Just about no one knows that unlike movies a many lost game sale could do much harm
I have a friend who was pirating Japanese Sim games and his isp (Time Warner) Called him, warned and banned him from Torrenting for a while then explained what could happen next time he got caught, hes scared shitless now and dreads piracy talk
Got another friend who recently pirated a mass of games to play on his new rig i tried talking him out of it in case his ISP fucked him over but he says "If i can get it for free then why waist good money that could be spent on something els I can probably get for free" hes a jackass and got a dual core Dell desktop home computer piece of trash so all his piracy was useless now he plays Vindictus 24/7
Every game Ive purchased is good and thats why i own them i do my research play demos or just put faith into the game being good and Im right on the money EVERY time. If i don't like it then i wont own it period and if i do then ill wait my turn and earn my chance to play through fair pay
The people who make the games easily pirateable are cracking the games for the fame among the pirates and the sport of it all. As game protection gets better they get smarted thus negating any efforts against piracy its like feeding them with a challenge. They deserve the blame and fingers to be pointed there way.
When ever I finish a game that was outright amazing through my eyes I feel bad that I didn't pay more for it then I realize i have no money left so I just smile at the credits. When a game feels like an interactive 7 hour movie then its worth the money when I understand and feel the emotion the game gives off then I rage at piracy (Was referring to mass effect 2 it was beautiful)
Theres a video on Youtube where a guy questions Nintendo's reasons for not releasing games to the people who actually WANT to buy them yet they rage when piracy numbers could have been massive sales for those games. I don't know what there thinking but that makes me want to pirate the games they wont release here just because I know I cant have it or they don't want me to. I wont play it ill just have because I have the ability to posses it when Im not suppose to.... Cant wait until XenoBlade releases in the US Ive been eye balling it for a while now...
When you pirate something and start the vicious cycle you create a big hole that you'll try to fill by pirating more its like thinking your a God knowing you have it all yet theres still more that you want or need to have in possession and once you get so deep into the Digital theft business you'll need one hard ass slap to get out
Game fly was a neat little way to reduce piracy but if you think about it enough it only made it worse
tl;dr? I was randomly ranting about Humans being greedy and lazy....
It is not rocket science to notice that 3DS Max is not a game, and in fact a lot of people in this forum need this software to live. That is why I say "games" above.
You don't need 3DS Max to live, you could choose to use free alternatives like Blender(which would be more then enough to do any game modelling, uv'ing, rigging or animation that I know of). I'm not saying that everyone should give up using 3Ds Max because its a major investment that most of us can't afford, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Autodesk deserves the money for their software as any studio/publisher ever will. Now Autodesk is actually smart enough to 'embrace' piracy by offering their products (nearly) free for people who are studying or out of a job, since it's actually an investment from their side. Giving people access to their software for free trains them for using their software, and whenever they get hired into an industry, they are most likely using the Autodesk software, ending in them selling one more license.
It is not rocket science to notice that 3DS Max is not a game, and in fact a lot of people in this forum need this software to live. That is why I say "games" above.
That's not true, you could just use blender. It's no different than saying "There are free games out there, play them instead of pirating".
You could say that, but you would be wrong, because you can't get a job using Blender.
That's patently false. You can get a job using Blender, just not the one you're thinking of. You're setting up a double standard that doesn't mesh with reality.
That's patently false. You can get a job using Blender, just not the one you're thinking of. You're setting up a double standard that doesn't mesh with reality.
You use Blender right? I bet the job offers are just pouring in...
And furthermore, by your standard, I could claim that I'm downloading games for free because I'm training myself to be a QA tester. Am I justified in doing that any more than saying it's okay to download Max or Maya to learn it?
And furthermore, by your standard, I could claim that I'm downloading games for free because I'm training myself to be a QA tester. Am I justified in doing that any more than saying it's okay to download Max or Maya to learn it?
That website does a great job of proving my point. 4 lame jobs posted, the most recent post is months old.
Yup, if you were really training to be a QA tester, and you didn't have the money to buy games I think it would be justified. If you just said you were training to do QA as an excuse to download games then clearly you are being an asshole.
That website does a great job of proving my point. 4 lame jobs posted, the most recent post is months old.
Yup, if you were really training to be a QA tester, and you didn't have the money to buy games I think it would be justified. If you just said you were training to do QA as an excuse to download games then clearly you are being an asshole.
That's rather hypocritical of you. You condemn people for violating copyright to have free games, but you're okay with people doing it when they are looking to learn from it? Granted copyright technically allows for fair use when it comes to education, but you seem you be okay with that use so long as it doesn't effect your income. What the hell?
Yup, if you were really training to be a QA tester, and you didn't have the money to buy games I think it would be justified. If you just said you were training to do QA as an excuse to download games then clearly you are being an asshole.
Double standard much? And is wolfire games not using blender to create assets for overgrowth? Also... Metalliandy
Double standard much? And is wolfire games not using blender to create assets for overgrowth? Also... Metalliandy
We are using Blender to do some of the rigging and animation. It is okay for that, but I have yet to see any really high end game art made in Blender. I am not sure I have ever seen a game art job listing that mentions Blender.
I really don't understand what you guys are getting at. Is it a "double-standard" to say it is okay to steal food if you are staving to death? Clearly the circumstances are kind of important. Not being an asshole about paying people who make your life better is not really about IP laws at all, which don't work obviously. What it is about is the social contract that you have with the people who contribute to your life.
If you find that concept confusing, then it is probably because you are a scumbag.
We are referring to the fact that you think it's okay to pirate a game if you are learning to be QA tester and have no money (note here.. the person might as easily be working another job) but not if you are not learning to be QA tester but still have no money...
We are referring to the fact that you think it's okay to pirate a game if you are learning to be QA tester and have no money (note here.. the person might as easily be working another job) but not if you are not learning to be QA tester but still have no money...
I think there is a difference between a person who is using something to make their life better, and is willing to do what it takes, and one who is using something to waste time for no fucking reason. I guess it is a complex idea for some people.
I think there is a difference between a person who is using something to make their life better, and is willing to do what it takes, and one who is using something to waste time for no fucking reason. I guess it is a complex idea for some people.
Who is to say that person couldn't wait longer to save up money and buy the games later so he could learn QA... What gives him the privilege to pirate games while other people are not allowed to do it? For example people to whom 60$ game would equal equivalent of 2/3rds of their months pay (wouldn't be surprised if this was the case in some eastern european countries)
Replies
It's not easy like that, you can't let something go that is coming to you.
The only way to fully embrace the pirates is to give away what you made for free, there's no middleground.
As many has said though, piracy exists and there's really nothing you can do to stop it, but there's also little point to try to cater to the pirates or give them what they want, focus on the paying customers to give them the best and least hindered experience.
Pirates exist and they're regular normal people, no prison-hardened criminals, but there's really nothing that makes them more holy or glorious than anyone else.
Indeed, figures supporting 'converted pirates' are as inaccurate as the piracy figures themselves. What can be done is actions that increase custom and reduce the desire for that custom to embrace piracy.
That is true, but that's another one of those loose facts like "damage due to piracy" that cannot be measured, there's really no guarantee of convertion, just as much as making a good game is no guarantee at all that it wont be pirated any less.
Actually it would get pirated more, but also it should sell more. There are no guarantees in this world, only calculated guesses. A 'good game' is subjective and sales don't always follow the trend. Yet I can still imagine the horrific fate of any underrated, underselling gems of gaming... if they weren't gems.
Yeah I can totally see how this was affected by pirates.
"As part of its standard business practice, id regularly evaluates staffing to ensure it has a workforce that meets the needs of the studio,
Totally the fault of piracy.
"A source told GameSpot that the Chicago-based studio's collapse came as a result of losing its publishing deal with Japanese publisher Konami."
Those darn pirates again.
"Apparently, the developer had another project that was already "in the works for months" when an unnamed publisher pulled out, but Mays said it directly caused the layoffs. "That resulted in us having too many people so we had to do a layoff,"
Those darn pirates again.
"Manifest says that EVE expansions, DUST, and WoD have stretched CCP's resources too thin, and the company will now "sharpen our focus." In the short term, this means more attention for EVE Online and DUST 514, while World of Darkness will "continue development with a significantly reduced team." Finally, the press release attempts to head off the doomsayers by pointing out the fact that EVE's subscriber numbers are higher than they were this time last year."
Can't find any real information about this, just people talking about 1 guy getting fired, a couple of programmers laid off and at the end of the thread people getting hired.
"Ignition Games on Friday morning announced a new North American headquarters"
"Ignition said it has ceased internal development of games: "In order to facilitate shifting the publishing focus to more effectively work with innovative independent developers and explore new platform possibilities, Ignition Games has taken the strategic decision not to continue with internal development of games."
THQ confirmed today that it has made a strategic realignment within its internal studio structure and is in the process of closing two locations: the company's UK studio and KAOS studio in New York. Both studios' employees have been informed.
THQ continues its strategy of aligning the best industry talent with the company's marquee franchises. The Montreal studio will take over product development and overall creative management for the Homefront franchise. The Montreal studio actively collaborated with KAOS on Homefront.
The company continues to strengthen its internal creative development expertise and is actively hiring in many of its internal studios, including Montreal and Vancouver, Canada, as well as Austin, Texas. THQ's UK studio and KAOS employees will have the opportunity to interview for open positions with the company globally.
"normal business practice and a result of cutting back on production resources after the launch of two major franchises."
"Eurogamer's report cites an anonymous source inside Black Rock who said Disney has been unable to give half of the studio any work since mid-December. "It seems Disney have been unable to provide us with a project to work on, and our concept pitches clearly haven't gone down well (despite there being many of them)," said the source. "
"When queried by GameSpot, Disney offered the following statement: "Disney Interactive Studios confirms a reduction of its workforce from its Brighton-based internal game development studio, Black Rock Studios. The studio will continue its work on its current project."
An anonymous source told Gamasutra this week that Crysis developer Crytek will lay off 30-35 workers at its Budapest studio, which will purportedly switch from work on an Xbox 360-exclusive Kinect game to focus on tablet titles
There seems to be no response from Obsidian as to why they were laid off.
"As part of a strategic decision to reduce costs and streamline its global workforce, SOE announced today that it will eliminate 205 positions and close its Denver, Seattle and Tucson studios. As part of this restructuring, SOE is discontinuing production of The Agency so it can focus development resources on delivering two new MMOs based on its renowned PlanetSide and EverQuest properties, while also maintaining its current portfolio of online games. All possible steps are being taken to ensure team members affected by the transition are treated with appropriate concern."
Only info I can find.
"Most of the LEGO devs, formerly employed by NetDevil (a Gazillion subsidiary), have received employment offers from the LEGO Group and will continue iterating on the game from the company's Louisville, Colorado studio.
Gazillion is re-focusing its ongoing development efforts into browser games, according to President and COO David Brevik. "The transition of members of our team to the LEGO Group enables us to focus completely on internally-published, free-to-play game businesses," he said."
Can't find any information at all about this.
"The news broke in a 4Chan post last month, a screengrab of which can be found here. In an effort to cut costs, it reads, Rare has cut their last permanent members of art staff. All artists working there are temps.
"According to a statement given to outlets including Austin360.com, the Junction Point layoffs "were fairly minimal and it is part of a larger restructuring at Disney Interactive Studios, which is part of Disney Interactive Media Group." The company did not disclose the exact number of employees laid off."
Only information I can find; "Disappointing sales for the studio's under-rated racer Blur did the damage. "We are exploring our options regarding the future of the studio," said the publisher last November. Its options turned out to be limited"
"A spokesperson for Instant Action parent company IAC, said Instant Action was shut down because "it was operating in a highly competitive industry, and the business didn't scale profitably in the manner we had expected."
"But Activision did confirm that restructuring occurred, stating, "With the recent completion of Singularity, Raven Software is realigning its workforce to better reflect the studio's upcoming slate."
I'm sorry but I don't see how this has anything to do with piracy at all JacqueChoi.
Not measurable true, but not saying that piracy had anything to do with it is as bad as saying that piracy had everything to do with it. People not buying a product will affect sales in the end, no matter if they would've bought it or not.
I would bet that in these scenarios, these economic situations could've been avoided if everyone who enjoyed the game actually paid for it, I'm not saying that it ever would've happened or that companies should plan around everyone actually buying their product, as everyone wont, even if they enjoy it or not.
There is a reason for that. Things like the Humble Indie Bundle actually provides an incentive to pay (i.e. charity and the freedom to pay what you think its worth). That's one way that can mitigate the issue of abundance. People will still buy games if they feel they are worth paying for or have some reason that's important to them to buy it. Which is why media companies should look into shifting their model more to a service rather than a product-based model. Eventually, they won't need to sell the games anymore, the games will sell the services instead and the games will be how they reach new customers.
The economist in the video, Mike Masnick, has his own business model that he uses on his own business called "Connect with Fans + Reason to Buy" or CwF+RtB. The plan requires that the content creator makes a real social connection with his audience, increasing their involvement with their beloved content, and provides compelling reasons to buy directly from the creator. The key is to offer a truly compelling reason for people to open their wallets rather than their torrent manager. It's not an absolute solution, there aren't any and it's not the only one. I feel it's a far better option than trying to beat on the public with laws that only work if people respect them (which they don't).
While piracy will have an effect on sales and the economic situation of studios, I'm a firm believer that bad management, bad investments, ripoffs, rushed products and publishers forcing insane deadlines are hurting this industry much more then piracy ever will and those issues will not get 0,1% of the attention piracy has gotten so far.
I agree. It's really the suits at the top that harm the games industry the most for the above reasons. It's typical when there's a problem that people will blame everyone else before they blame themselves. In addition to that, I think it's their reaction to the infringement issue that hurts most developers. They want to make a profit, so they invest in studios they think will accomplish that, but they see people downloading the games for free and assume they aren't getting as much profit as they feel entitled to. So, they cut funding, cancel projects, and close entire studios because it wasn't profitable enough. I don't think many games from the more talented studios that have been canned ever put out a game that didn't make at least some profit. It's just that they didn't bring in CoD:MW levels of profit and publishers get reluctant to continue to fund them. Really, how many games have been put out from the majors that didn't make any profit?
They assume that since people are downloading the game that they would otherwise pay for it barring the option to download for free, but it's because the publisher expects CoD levels of success with poor planning, bad time management, and unrealistic expectations of performance in the market that really damages the games industry. It's a foolish notion to believe that taking away utility and convenience will increase the value of goods in the eye of the consumer, it actually makes them value it less. Make a shit game (or even a good one) that's behind an unfriendly pay-wall and you will just encourage people to bypass the wall and access the game for nothing. The conflict between infringement and profitability is a service issue. Offer a better service than the one they get for free and provide better quality games. That will get you more business.
No I agree, I wouldn't exclude any cause really, what I was saying was that it's as stupid to exclude piracy as any kind of harm-doer as it is to say it is the only problem.
The only way to go around it is to plan a certain percentage of piracy amongst your target-group and budget around the percentage that will actually buy your game, but this isn't really an easy problem just like that.
And again, I just had this tiny happy vision of where just a small portion of the pirates of some game could've pushed some products into surviving instead of not going round on it, and these being the pirates that actually enjoyed the product much like any other consumer.
And I know it doesn't work like that, and it will never work like that, it's just one of those "If only", as some people might fail to realize some game could've used that extra bit of support.
Piracy still is and will always be this immeasurable problem that cannot be stopped, but there's no RIGHT in it other than it being in some cases a necessary evil or side-effect of our much needed freedom and anonymity on the internet, which I for one want to keep.
So most of what you mentioned were results of 'cost cutting' measures, or re-alignments for financial issues.
Yet you see no correlation with the financial stringency, and that MANY people are NOT PAYING for the product they play?
I'm not saying there's a direct line there, but you'd be hard pressed to tell me there isn't any connection at all. Very surprised you take press releases at face value, and not fodder given to appease shareholders.
Cool story.
To say Piracy doesn't affect the bottom line of the games industry, is about as asinine as saying piracy has had no effect on the music industry.
Well, file sharing has had an impact on the music industry, a positive impact. It has enabled independent artists to bypass the entire recording industry and sell direct to their fans. The recording industry is the only segment that could possibly be thought of as being harmed by this because they have been made irrelevant and obsolete. Thanks to "piracy" the music industry is growing, for the artists' benefit, not the record labels. Artists have more access to their fans and vice versa, which creates some great business opportunities.
As far as its impact on the games industry, that's entirely due to publishers freaking out when they see people downloading games for free and then yanking funding from studios, canceling projects, and laying people off because of it. Despite infringement of these games, most do still make a profit (unless they are utter shit), yet studios get closed regardless while blaming the rampant downloading. It's just not as much profit as they think they should have. They don't lay people off because the games aren't making a profit. They do it because the profit isn't as big as they would like it and pull funding for that studio.
File sharing is not piracy, and modern sharing methods having a positive impact does not have to do with piracy, it can just as well be a band that gave out their songs for free to increase awareness, note: their own choice of marketing.
No, they wont yank funding from a studio that is bringing them money, despite of a title being pirated, it's when the studio fails to bring profit that they'll end them, every game will be pirated.
And as we've already been through a massive number of times, a game being shit or not does not decide the fate in piracy.
But in the end, pc is the minority market of game sales, they make almost all of their money from console sales. So the smallest percent of the sale areas has the highest rate of piracy. It isn't that much of a financial hinder.
Id be interested in seeing red dead redemption's piracy statistics compared to other games, as they didn't release it for pc.
What is your source for these claims? I would be very curious to see the numbers. Without any sort of factual evidence to support your claims this is 100% conjecture.
I think far more games than you would like to believe make little or no profit, but this is simply conjecture on my part as well. After development, marketing, QA, various licensing costs, distribution costs etc etc etc a lot of games pull in a lot less profit than you would think. Sure, revenue for most games is quite high, profit is another thing entirely.
Is it the fault of the publishers/developers who make these games that they aren't making much/any profit? Probably, I wouldn't blame this on piracy as there is a lot of cancerous mismanagement and shaddy practices going on in the games industry, as well as blatant incompetence. But I also wouldn't sit around and pretend like every game is making massive profits either.
You have to understand that pulling a profit not only means doing a little better than breaking even, but pulling enough of a profit to fund your next project(s), so you have to pull quite a decent profit to stay in business. If your game doesn't do well enough to fund more work, what do you expect the publisher to do? Give you a hug and a pile full of free money?
You misunderstand me. What I mean to say is that people sharing music has had a positive impact, illegal or not.
Actually the game's quality does effect how much it gets shared. People won't bother sharing crappy games. Some do, but it disappears from the sharing networks quickly.
Publishers do yank funding when a studio fails to make a large enough profit. That results in layoffs. They don't invest money where profits aren't as high as they project them. They will close studios that fail to profit.
It's only their fault that they aren't making profit so far as when they practice piss-poor management and planning. It's their fault for reacting to piracy as the reason they aren't making as much profit as they'd like and defunding studios that leads to layoffs. When profits aren't as big as they project, they blame everyone but themselves.
I can't recall where I read this, but studies have found that the same people that "pirate" media are also the people whom spend the most money on it.
Well unless you're privy to the sales figures for a large enough sample of games to suggest that people are being laid off because publishers aren't making *enough* of a profit, you're doing the same fact-less scapegoating that publishers who blame piracy for low sales are. You can't prove it nor can they. Why is it ok for you to do it, and not them?
Honestly, risk vs reward evaluation is part of every industry. If a product isn't pulling enough profit to hold its weight over the long term, it isn't a sound investment. So who really decides what is and isn't enough of a profit? I would say the guys with the money, it is their money after all, they are likely in the best position to make the choice.
Publishers sitting around blaming pirates, and pirates sitting around blaming fat cat suits are all in the same boat. The reality is likely somewhere in-between, piracy does have a negative effect on the industry, as do greedy and gun-shy investors/publishers.
Hey, now you finally get it!
Well, I've never said anything contrary to this. I actually agree with you on a lot of this stuff, it just drives me nuts how incredibly one sided your arguments tend to be.
I think that's the problem every time this comes up. Opinions becomes black and white, with no gray.
To me, the game industry is making the same mistakes the music industry did. They start losing profits, and they look for the nearest thing to blame. Pirating has always been the easy excuse. Sure, pirating will cause some loses, but I think it's never as deep as they claim. As it's already been stated, I don't think 1 illegal copy = 1 lost sale.
But, if the ultimate anti-piracy protection came out, the gaming companies would still do poorly. Like record companies, the game companies have continued business as usual for years. They continue charging $60 for games that suck, and they rip off the consumer. Then the consumer gets gun-shy when the next time they look for a game to plop that $60 on.
To top it off, they get a game like Halo, or CoD, and they waste millions on advertising. Why? Those games sell themselves. They should be spending money to advertise games that they know are good, but may not get the public's attention. And don't tell me that a studio doesn't know if the game they are working on is 'good'. I'm sure you guys have worked on games, that you knew was going to suck in the end.
While I agree with that sentiment, business practices like marketing strategy and risk management don't. Not only are good games subjective but our understanding of the quality and its translation to sales are calculated guesses. Many people here (including the ones developing it) would consider Call of Duty a bad game, and Okami a brilliant one. Our knowledge of this wouldn't have helped as their sales speak for themselves.
Did Okami deserve more marketing than it had and Call of Duty less? Quite possibly, but the marketing department/risk management thinks differently: They'll go with a "Sure Thing" They'd rather pump more money into something that will already sell to boost it's sales and have more hype and people buying it than ever before, so they know they can always make more and keep the train going.
While I'm no economist or risk management expert, I would believe that a (not too balanced) balanced approach where your "high risk" project gets more marketing and exposure than it used to would be beneficial, with "sure things" being sure an all not needing so much. This could be bad business strategy but I do think that it's even worse to blow millions on a "high risk" in the first place with no effort to lessen that risk at all. Most good games that I have played that didn't sell appeared to have abysmally small market presence (or they were that goddamn obscure)
See, but that's exactly my point. They don't understand where that money should go. They think it translates to making more money on the game that will already be doing well. I bet CoD would still have people lining up, without all the free shit, and promoting they do. I'm not saying to NOT promote it at all, but there's no need to pay Jonah Hill and Sam Worthington to make a commercial.
That is all.
Finally broke through that and steam is a godsend, its really simple and convenient. I still pirate games here and there to see if theyll run on my computer just as a mere demo (if one is not provided)
Yes I admit to pirating but everything I've pirated has pushed my decision to buy the legit version lol. I have never once pirated a game with the sole intention of playing through it and never buying it. The only game I think I ever played moderately that I pirated was Oblivion, only because I wanted to mess with mods and skyrim was around the corner anyway.
Yes I bought skyrim.
In all honesty when I was high in pirating, the sites I used were full of despicable people that really piss me off. They claim game publishers are "greedy bastards" and all that jazz and they think everything should be free. That is NOT my viewpoint. But ever since I bought Medal of Honor and Deadrising 2 and returned them both the very next day for $30 at gamestop I will never buy a game that is new to me only judging by the previews, it no longer cuts it for me.
No you don't need them to live, but many live to play them. Some put so much of their life into absorbing their gaming habits that it becomes clear that they would never have been able to afford it all or if they had their life would be about the work needed to pursue it more than the time to indulge. I would have trouble questioning their commitment to video games even if their priorities and morals are askew.
Of course there are people I know who pirate everything and never spend a dime, I can't save the same respect for them, I mean where does the cookie crumble?
I'm not gonna label you and please don't take this as a personal attack, but I can't help wondering how people that says lines like you just did actually use pirated software when they started to learn their craft. When I started learning 3d it was clear that if I wanted to make it in the danish 3d industry, 3Ds Max and V-Ray were the only way to go, and this was way before the new Autdoesk Student deal where you actually get the software for free as long as you are studying and don't use it for commercial art. Now I'm lucky enough to have a legal copy of 3Ds Max because I'm studying and I can tap into my company's V-Ray license bundle if I need to use it at home.
I'm 99.999% sure that most people on this forum started out with a pirated copy of 3Ds Max/Maya/Modo/Hudini/Whatever and a pirated Photoshop.
There's more free games out there than anyone will ever be able to play in his lifetime, no one really needs the games you pay for, they're a luxury where there are ton of other games for free.
No I actually agree with that first thing, as I've mentioned earlier in my posts, there really isn't any way to stop piracy without going all out SOPA on the internet, which is real bad.
But many(most) pirates are looking for the legalization of it, and the one thing deveopers still have left is the community stigma associated with pirating a game, people will mark you as a bad person for good reasons, so companies should stop pushing with drm, but they shouldn't give ground in any way.
But once again, in some places of the internet you're the bad person if you say that someone should support a company instead of pirating their product.
True, and many have moved that way, with community based games and micro-transactions like there was nothing else.
QFW
If anone wants a legal copy of Dead Space 2, send me a pm.
We need to support our industry. I know perfectly that a ~90% of the polycount users play pirated games. The worst, is that videogame industry workers are pirates aswell, i know to many of them from here and i feel repugnance. All is a pure hipocrisy. If your condition is to be pirate, you will want all for free. Piracy is a matter of morality.
To all the wannabes here with pro-piracy comments: so you want to work making games? forget it, because as you may know, if you get a work, you will be exposed to be fired easily.
1 pirated copy is not a loss, but from the massive amount of ilegal downloaded copies of games, there are losses and that's a fact. Noone will pay for a "game" when it's "for free" in the internet (notice that i wrote "game"... because games nowadays have zero value, ppl are customed to have all them 4free).
Said that, i will give a copy of DEAD SPACE 2 to a regular user on polycount, i will choose one from all the pms. And i do this just to put example, because games are NOT EXPENSIVE. If you pirate games you are simplily a dick without morality/education, a terrible bad person.
But couldn't the same arguement be used? Just because its expensive doesnt give you the right to say "Hey, fuck it.. Its okay I pirate everyone elses hardwork because their software is expensive... But as soon as we talk about 60 dollar games, burn the witches!"
There alternatives to 3Ds Max and Photoshop, even 'great' free alternatives, but people in this industry just doesn't see it justified the same way.. You DONT have to have 3ds max, just as you DON'T need to play video games.. But we still choose to, and some people pirates both while others buy student licenses etc.
If you hate on game piracy but used pirated software to learn your trade and justify it because 'it's expensive, so it's okay', you are nearly as hypocritical as you can be.
It's complicated though when you bring in that into the discussion, as it easily just nullifies everyone's opinion, and on one can have any believes anymore.
I used to pirate stuff back in the days, and nowadays I have a bunch of old dos games that I certainly never ever paid for, but when it comes to new stuff I either get the game when it launches, or wait for a sale if I don't feel like I can afford it.
It's not about who is a pirate and who is not, as everyone has at some point, more or less pirated something which makes everyone a pirate, it's about to, to ones full ability try to avoid to pirate anything, support games that you truly enjoy, or avoid pirating them at all.
Just a tiny bit of effort from everyone can go all the way in helping companies that can use the support.
True, I fully agree with you, and as you point out, piracy is such a hard thing to get around because everyone will have different opinions. But I just like to point out when you use such a vocal 'damnation' of pirates because they are hitting the industry you work in, but actually download the software you use everyday or music you listen to, it's hypocrisy that I find annoying. Support people who's game, software or music you are using, but don't use the price as a middleway for you to download illegal software but shout at people who pirate games.
It is not rocket science to notice that 3DS Max is not a game, and in fact a lot of people in this forum need this software to live. That is why I say "games" above.
By default one would think "I don't know these people and i don't care about them as they don't care about me its just a free short game and Im just one person its not like I'm doing any damage to there business/Income"
Now theres hundreds of thousands thinking this not just one and thats the problem i use to think like that its not because one cant AFFORD the game they can afford the console a power supply, living expenses but cant afford a New/Used copy?!?! Shit i can get mass effect 1 and 2 for 10$ right now from a few places but being a money loving tard of a human would I really SPEND it if i could get it WITHOUT spending it and keep the money to spend on something els while having BOTH items instead of ONE?!!? Honestly! If you can steal without getting caught Im sure you would steal it unless you take pride in the hard work that was done for your enjoyment. If you want it NOW and think hey ill just buy it later but never get around to buying it thus you end up doing it again until a vicious cycle is created ending with you being hundreds in debt to the industry for piracy and not giving a care because you think you cant be caught.
Its not they they CANT its that they don't want to get up and go pay for it or just spend any money they can keep. I have a friend whom knows nothing of piracy yet he knows what can be done with it so he constantly asks for help from me or other friends to get him a free game or 5 or a free movie or 10 or a few episodes of some Anime or all 600. We don't help him for a many of reasons
People are lazy, stupid, greedy and 80% of the time useless they want stuff to be cheep as possible and most of the time free IF possible. Got another friend who would rather use a cracked Maya than sign up for a student license because its easier, quick and at the same time free just as using a student license would be....
Just about no one knows that unlike movies a many lost game sale could do much harm
I have a friend who was pirating Japanese Sim games and his isp (Time Warner) Called him, warned and banned him from Torrenting for a while then explained what could happen next time he got caught, hes scared shitless now and dreads piracy talk
Got another friend who recently pirated a mass of games to play on his new rig i tried talking him out of it in case his ISP fucked him over but he says "If i can get it for free then why waist good money that could be spent on something els I can probably get for free" hes a jackass and got a dual core Dell desktop home computer piece of trash so all his piracy was useless now he plays Vindictus 24/7
Every game Ive purchased is good and thats why i own them i do my research play demos or just put faith into the game being good and Im right on the money EVERY time. If i don't like it then i wont own it period and if i do then ill wait my turn and earn my chance to play through fair pay
The people who make the games easily pirateable are cracking the games for the fame among the pirates and the sport of it all. As game protection gets better they get smarted thus negating any efforts against piracy its like feeding them with a challenge. They deserve the blame and fingers to be pointed there way.
When ever I finish a game that was outright amazing through my eyes I feel bad that I didn't pay more for it then I realize i have no money left so I just smile at the credits. When a game feels like an interactive 7 hour movie then its worth the money when I understand and feel the emotion the game gives off then I rage at piracy (Was referring to mass effect 2 it was beautiful)
Theres a video on Youtube where a guy questions Nintendo's reasons for not releasing games to the people who actually WANT to buy them yet they rage when piracy numbers could have been massive sales for those games. I don't know what there thinking but that makes me want to pirate the games they wont release here just because I know I cant have it or they don't want me to. I wont play it ill just have because I have the ability to posses it when Im not suppose to.... Cant wait until XenoBlade releases in the US Ive been eye balling it for a while now...
When you pirate something and start the vicious cycle you create a big hole that you'll try to fill by pirating more its like thinking your a God knowing you have it all yet theres still more that you want or need to have in possession and once you get so deep into the Digital theft business you'll need one hard ass slap to get out
Game fly was a neat little way to reduce piracy but if you think about it enough it only made it worse
tl;dr? I was randomly ranting about Humans being greedy and lazy....
You don't need 3DS Max to live, you could choose to use free alternatives like Blender(which would be more then enough to do any game modelling, uv'ing, rigging or animation that I know of). I'm not saying that everyone should give up using 3Ds Max because its a major investment that most of us can't afford, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Autodesk deserves the money for their software as any studio/publisher ever will. Now Autodesk is actually smart enough to 'embrace' piracy by offering their products (nearly) free for people who are studying or out of a job, since it's actually an investment from their side. Giving people access to their software for free trains them for using their software, and whenever they get hired into an industry, they are most likely using the Autodesk software, ending in them selling one more license.
That's not true, you could just use blender. It's no different than saying "There are free games out there, play them instead of pirating".
Bah, Zpanzer beat me to it!
You could say that, but you would be wrong, because you can't get a job using Blender.
That's patently false. You can get a job using Blender, just not the one you're thinking of. You're setting up a double standard that doesn't mesh with reality.
You use Blender right? I bet the job offers are just pouring in...
Oh, an ad hominem, how quaint! Don't be petty.
There are jobs for people skilled in Blender. My lack of employment is not proof positive that Blender can't get you a job.
Oh looky!
http://jobs.katsbits.com/
And furthermore, by your standard, I could claim that I'm downloading games for free because I'm training myself to be a QA tester. Am I justified in doing that any more than saying it's okay to download Max or Maya to learn it?
That website does a great job of proving my point. 4 lame jobs posted, the most recent post is months old.
Yup, if you were really training to be a QA tester, and you didn't have the money to buy games I think it would be justified. If you just said you were training to do QA as an excuse to download games then clearly you are being an asshole.
That's rather hypocritical of you. You condemn people for violating copyright to have free games, but you're okay with people doing it when they are looking to learn from it? Granted copyright technically allows for fair use when it comes to education, but you seem you be okay with that use so long as it doesn't effect your income. What the hell?
Double standard much? And is wolfire games not using blender to create assets for overgrowth? Also... Metalliandy
We are using Blender to do some of the rigging and animation. It is okay for that, but I have yet to see any really high end game art made in Blender. I am not sure I have ever seen a game art job listing that mentions Blender.
I really don't understand what you guys are getting at. Is it a "double-standard" to say it is okay to steal food if you are staving to death? Clearly the circumstances are kind of important. Not being an asshole about paying people who make your life better is not really about IP laws at all, which don't work obviously. What it is about is the social contract that you have with the people who contribute to your life.
If you find that concept confusing, then it is probably because you are a scumbag.
Likewise no one will ever get a full proper enjoyment out of a free game.
Oh shit, run, this is turning into a blender thread
I think there is a difference between a person who is using something to make their life better, and is willing to do what it takes, and one who is using something to waste time for no fucking reason. I guess it is a complex idea for some people.
Heh, +1.