Installed it ... hardly touch it now. Probably because I almost never touch normalmaps at work though to be fair. If I put the time in to learn it, I might use it a lot more.
I watched some demonstrations, and being able to make normals in photoshop made me cream my pants, with my artistic backround being spent mostly in that program. Im sold.
It's definitely worth it, and at the rate the discounts are going, they're going to eventually be paying YOU money to take it. It could certainly be used for organic models as well.
Absolutely worth it. There are some quirks about it, but Teddy is fast at releasing updates to fix issues that people post about in the support forum. I've been using it a lot at home to get more comfortable with it, before presenting it to my studio to purchase a full set of seats.
It's extremely useful for a lot of simple things, BSP-type texturing and the like. I also use it for adding details on top of my baked normals via sculpt layers, instead of modeling all of that with floating geometry.
The actual quality of the NDo normals is amazing - it's 100% identical to a fully modeled bake. It can't replace modeling/sculpting, since there are things that always need to be modeled to get good base normals. But there is a ton you can get away with using NDo. Insets, panel lines, screws/bolts, cables - you name it. Saves a ton of time. I did a test of creating a simple inset rectangle that has a slope on the inside. Took about 3 minutes or so to model. In NDo it took about 15 seconds. The visual differences were nonexistent. They looked exactly the same, both in Photoshop and on the mesh in Max.
You can argue that creating a greeble library of kitbash components speeds up the use of floating geometry and that's true, but floating geo can also be a pain to deal with when baking, making sure your cages or offsets fully encompass the geometry and all that. In the end, it just depends on what you're comfortable using.
As others have stated it is so worth it. While you still will need to bake to get good edges and the such NDO2 is perfect for small details. The feature I have been using the most in the Normal to AO tool, it works much better than normal baking.
If you were to make a model and have floating geo you would end up having to go back and fix up the AO around the edges most likely but with NDO2 that is no longer a problem!
Needless to say I have worked it into my workflow and I am not sure how I could go back.
nDo 2 is awesome and definitely worth the money.
As Joshua said, Teddy is super fast at fixing bugs and adding feature requests, so you can't go wrong.
There is a learning curve (as with everything), but once you get around that, then you will be flying
Im tempted to get it, but will wait until I need to start doing more normal maps again. But like the others have said, doing small details looks to be very fast, and would save time I'm sure.
I pretty much never bake anything anymore (there are occasions when I still do). It's just so much faster most of the time and I can improvise a lot more AND try out things like shapes, scale and repetition in my textures WAY faster than if I would have baked out everything.
The normals quality is really fantastic, too. They're full 3D normals, not the junk you get from the Nvidia filter, or even using Crazybump to convert heightmaps (not that CB is junk by any means!).
In a few minutes I threw this together in Photoshop, whereas it would have taken at least 15 minutes to model it in Max, set it up for baking and rendering the maps.
It won't replace modeling or baking by any means, but it's an awesome supplemental tool.
Its for environment artist's use only...Good to know. I'll keep a look out for it when I start making environment for my project and in the dire need of this.
I did two more quick tests today. The quality really is great.
Right now there's a problem with creating documents without edge bevels (NDo crashes), but Teddy and I have been working back and forth on the issue - hopefully that gets solved soon. That's a big deal for anyone painting new tileable images from scratch using sculpt layers like this.
Definitely worth the investment. Once the edge bevel issue is resolved I'll be asking my studio to pick up seats for all artists.
So what's the secret to getting FBX files imported into NDO? I exported it triangulated, which stopped the corruption effect, but my UVs are still totally messed up. Halp?
Less than 20 minutes, can't recall exact time. 10-15 maybe? The hardest part is learning the NDo settings and functionality. Once I get more familiar, it will be even faster.
So what's the secret to getting FBX files imported into NDO? I exported it triangulated, which stopped the corruption effect, but my UVs are still totally messed up. Halp?
if you check the NDo forums, it looks like there's a running bug on this. I've had it happen a few times myself. Teddy is looking into it. I also requested support for mirrored UVs and custom tangents/binormals on custom meshes, as the FBX format includes those.
Its for environment artist's use only...Good to know. I'll keep a look out for it when I start making environment for my project and in the dire need of this.
It looks amazing tho.
I worked at a studio that used something similar to this on character armor
has anyone used Crazybump and nDo? just wondering what are the main differences?
Primarily that NDO allows for live updating of the textures via Photoshop whereas CrazyBump works on static versions. So with nDo you can paint the normal map and see updates immediately.
There are probably lots of techy differences but to me that's the largest one.
has anyone used Crazybump and nDo? just wondering what are the main differences?
The main differences between CB and nDO is that nDo is PS based and CB is external.
I tend to use nDo if i'm generating a normal map exclusively in PS, as it reduces the steps from heightmap> crazybump and you can make the normals from selections and brush strokes etc., which is really awesome, but for everything else I tend to use CB as it's super fast at generating really high quality normals.
They are both are great tools and can be combined to great effect and it's all down to personal choice really. Both programs are amazing, IMHO
Henceforth, any individual or small team (fewer than 8 people), which is not connected to a larger corporation, may use the personal license for work on commercial games to be self-published on the web, self-published through Apple's app store, or through Xbox Live indie games. (If you're working with a publishing company, then you still need the pro license.)
If you're wanting to publish through some other distribution method, drop me a line.
Thanks, good to know. This info is rather well hidden .
By the way, I heard NDO2 is rather resource-hungry and works relatively slow even on strong hardware. Is that true? If not, can anyone post rig good enough to handle it?
Also, how so called zipping the layer affects performance?
Thanks, good to know. This info is rather well hidden .
By the way, I heard NDO2 is rather resource-hungry and works relatively slow even on strong hardware. Is that true? If not, can anyone post rig good enough to handle it?
Also, how so called zipping the layer affects performance?
No problem
That is a tough question to answer, tbh. Some things can take a short amount of time to perform the initial calculations etc., but I wouldn't say it it prohibitively slow at all.
For instance, If you are using a preset that has a ton different things to do, it will take more time than a simpler one.
The Leather Cushion preset takes my PC 25 seconds to finish from the time I click go. This might sound like a reasonably long time, but not when considering it has 25 different layers and 21 layer effects applied, plus a bunch of different groups. The zipping of layers dramatically increases the responsiveness of the PSD's too
Replies
Need's another looking over haha.
If that's the question then its something I'd like to know too aha.
I watched some demonstrations, and being able to make normals in photoshop made me cream my pants, with my artistic backround being spent mostly in that program. Im sold.
This post wins internet ! Check what it can do and judge by yourself...
i still do highpolys though what i i started doing was baking to get my nice edges and useing NDO2 for anything i would have floated before.
really as cheap as $99 for a commercial license between 59 and 69 for non comercial, with a free 30 day trial so not expensive at all.
It's extremely useful for a lot of simple things, BSP-type texturing and the like. I also use it for adding details on top of my baked normals via sculpt layers, instead of modeling all of that with floating geometry.
The actual quality of the NDo normals is amazing - it's 100% identical to a fully modeled bake. It can't replace modeling/sculpting, since there are things that always need to be modeled to get good base normals. But there is a ton you can get away with using NDo. Insets, panel lines, screws/bolts, cables - you name it. Saves a ton of time. I did a test of creating a simple inset rectangle that has a slope on the inside. Took about 3 minutes or so to model. In NDo it took about 15 seconds. The visual differences were nonexistent. They looked exactly the same, both in Photoshop and on the mesh in Max.
You can argue that creating a greeble library of kitbash components speeds up the use of floating geometry and that's true, but floating geo can also be a pain to deal with when baking, making sure your cages or offsets fully encompass the geometry and all that. In the end, it just depends on what you're comfortable using.
If you were to make a model and have floating geo you would end up having to go back and fix up the AO around the edges most likely but with NDO2 that is no longer a problem!
Needless to say I have worked it into my workflow and I am not sure how I could go back.
As Joshua said, Teddy is super fast at fixing bugs and adding feature requests, so you can't go wrong.
There is a learning curve (as with everything), but once you get around that, then you will be flying
So yeah, IMO it's definitely worth it
In a few minutes I threw this together in Photoshop, whereas it would have taken at least 15 minutes to model it in Max, set it up for baking and rendering the maps.
It won't replace modeling or baking by any means, but it's an awesome supplemental tool.
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://www.quixel.se/
It looks amazing tho.
Right now there's a problem with creating documents without edge bevels (NDo crashes), but Teddy and I have been working back and forth on the issue - hopefully that gets solved soon. That's a big deal for anyone painting new tileable images from scratch using sculpt layers like this.
Definitely worth the investment. Once the edge bevel issue is resolved I'll be asking my studio to pick up seats for all artists.
How long did this take you Josh?
Less than 20 minutes, can't recall exact time. 10-15 maybe? The hardest part is learning the NDo settings and functionality. Once I get more familiar, it will be even faster.
if you check the NDo forums, it looks like there's a running bug on this. I've had it happen a few times myself. Teddy is looking into it. I also requested support for mirrored UVs and custom tangents/binormals on custom meshes, as the FBX format includes those.
edit: ninja'd
I worked at a studio that used something similar to this on character armor
There are probably lots of techy differences but to me that's the largest one.
The main differences between CB and nDO is that nDo is PS based and CB is external.
I tend to use nDo if i'm generating a normal map exclusively in PS, as it reduces the steps from heightmap> crazybump and you can make the normals from selections and brush strokes etc., which is really awesome, but for everything else I tend to use CB as it's super fast at generating really high quality normals.
They are both are great tools and can be combined to great effect and it's all down to personal choice really. Both programs are amazing, IMHO
The personal license for CrazyBump allows for freelancer usage and its $99
http://www.crazybump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=828&highlight=&sid=9b82d2f9cc74d12224a046a5edc4590b
Thanks, good to know. This info is rather well hidden
By the way, I heard NDO2 is rather resource-hungry and works relatively slow even on strong hardware. Is that true? If not, can anyone post rig good enough to handle it?
Also, how so called zipping the layer affects performance?
You're crazy if you even have to ask :P
No problem
No problem
That is a tough question to answer, tbh. Some things can take a short amount of time to perform the initial calculations etc., but I wouldn't say it it prohibitively slow at all.
For instance, If you are using a preset that has a ton different things to do, it will take more time than a simpler one.
The Leather Cushion preset takes my PC 25 seconds to finish from the time I click go. This might sound like a reasonably long time, but not when considering it has 25 different layers and 21 layer effects applied, plus a bunch of different groups. The zipping of layers dramatically increases the responsiveness of the PSD's too
Edge normal maps in 3D App and details in nDo, mix and voila, less headache to take care of.