Buying the right hardware for the job
Hello guys,
I'm planning on buying a new pc at the end of January. And of course, I want bang for bucks.
It has been a while since I bought my last pc so all the hardware is rather new to me. That's why I'm reading a lot of reviews, forums etc. One problem is, most hardware which is labelled as 'good', is labelled that way because it performs well in video games. And yes, I am planning on playing games but I also want a pc which performs well in 3Ds Max, Mudbox, Sandbox, UDK, Photoshop,... And information about that kind of hardware is not easy to find.
First of all, the GPU: Nvidia or AMD. I know there do exist special GPU for 3D apps but those are very expensive and not suitable for gaming. That's why I will go for a 'normal' GPU. First of all, I was planning on buying the Nvidia GTX580. Always had good experiences with Nvidia so why should I change? Because AMD is coming with a new video card which looks very promising, the 7970 (you can read a review here). Performs better than a GTX580 and it will probably cost as much as a GTX580. So I would be stupid if I didn't chose the AMD. But I'm a little bit sceptic because my experiences in the past with ATI Radeon are not that good. Finding the most optimal drivers was not always that easy a few years ago. And in 3Ds Max, it didn't perform as good I hoped it would. But my last experience is already a few years old so maybe those AMD video cars have improved a lot since I last used one.
What's your opinion about this matter? If you would have to choose a GPU for your new pc, knowing you will working a lot with 3D apps, would you chose an AMD or a Nvidia GPU? Or maybe you just don't care because they both perform well?
The second question is one about the processor. They advice gamers to buy I5's if they have a smaller budget because I7's are a lot more expensive and it ain't worth the money, for video games that is. But I red that 3Ds Max performs significantly better when you have a I7 installed. Opinions about that matter?
All other tips regarding new hardware for gaming/3d apps are more than welcome! Thanks in advance.
B.T.
I'm planning on buying a new pc at the end of January. And of course, I want bang for bucks.
It has been a while since I bought my last pc so all the hardware is rather new to me. That's why I'm reading a lot of reviews, forums etc. One problem is, most hardware which is labelled as 'good', is labelled that way because it performs well in video games. And yes, I am planning on playing games but I also want a pc which performs well in 3Ds Max, Mudbox, Sandbox, UDK, Photoshop,... And information about that kind of hardware is not easy to find.
First of all, the GPU: Nvidia or AMD. I know there do exist special GPU for 3D apps but those are very expensive and not suitable for gaming. That's why I will go for a 'normal' GPU. First of all, I was planning on buying the Nvidia GTX580. Always had good experiences with Nvidia so why should I change? Because AMD is coming with a new video card which looks very promising, the 7970 (you can read a review here). Performs better than a GTX580 and it will probably cost as much as a GTX580. So I would be stupid if I didn't chose the AMD. But I'm a little bit sceptic because my experiences in the past with ATI Radeon are not that good. Finding the most optimal drivers was not always that easy a few years ago. And in 3Ds Max, it didn't perform as good I hoped it would. But my last experience is already a few years old so maybe those AMD video cars have improved a lot since I last used one.
What's your opinion about this matter? If you would have to choose a GPU for your new pc, knowing you will working a lot with 3D apps, would you chose an AMD or a Nvidia GPU? Or maybe you just don't care because they both perform well?
The second question is one about the processor. They advice gamers to buy I5's if they have a smaller budget because I7's are a lot more expensive and it ain't worth the money, for video games that is. But I red that 3Ds Max performs significantly better when you have a I7 installed. Opinions about that matter?
All other tips regarding new hardware for gaming/3d apps are more than welcome! Thanks in advance.
B.T.
Replies
These sort of threads generally pop up a couple times per year, but then drivers are released to fix the issue no? On the other hand with AMD/ATI cards, you can count on every new release to break something. =P
Besides, the only cards "officially" supported by Maya are quadros and firegls.
I always go nvidia for workstations, if you want to play games on the cheap and deal with driver roulette, go ATI.
Honestly I usually just buy the $150-ish nvidia card whenever I do a build, that way when in two years there is a card twice as fast for $150, you can buy that too(as apposed to spending $300 on a higher end card). Also, high end GPUs tend to be hot, loud and use a lot more power. At the end of the day there is very little you need a high end GPU for if you've got a system with current hardware.... Oh lol the 580 is like $500? Thats insane dude, get a 560 or 550. With an i5/i7 + 8/16 gigs of ram that will be a very fast system that can handle all you'll throw at it. Never buy high end GPUs, its such a massive scam.
i7 2600K is about $300 and performs as well as 1st gen top end $1000 I7's, the I5 2500K is a good deal at $200 but for a workstation I would go I7.
Yep, Its the opposite for CPUs though, always buy a decent one, because upgrading in 2-3 years to a better CPU on the same motherboard will cost as much as buying a new, 2x as fast CPU. And an upgraded CPU on the same motherboard will almost always result in very marginal improvement. Never cheap out on the CPU, it should always be the most expensive component in the build. You shouldn't spend $1000 on one either, paying attention to the price curve is very important.
You often see people say "oh i'll get a cheap cpu now, I can always upgrade later" NO! Never do this, its a huge waste of money.
Its a unique situation now, usually Intel's top end CPUs are $500-1000, the I7 is one of the best CPUs on the market at only $300, its really a no brainer.
I don't know what to think about GPUs lately... Some people don't seem to have any problems with either brand whereas others have had much worse luck. I've always gone with mid range Nvidia cards due to ATI's poor track record with CG apps in general, but seeing how so many people have had trouble with the latest generations of Nvidia cards I decided to just wait out the storm. By the time the issues get sorted out the cards will be cheaper and/or better, and personally I'm not pushing the limits of game art with the things I've been working on lately anyway.
Personally I'm still on my Q6600 quadcore with 8800GT, and not really feeling the pressure to upgrade, it handle's everything I throw at it. I added a SSD earlier this year + win7 and its like a new computer.
The 8800 isn't great if I want to play the latest games, but I dont really have time for that much these days, works great for regular game dev though.
I pretty much have the same specs, and it works great with pretty much any current gen work I throw at it. But I am missing out on dx11 features and maxing new games. I still can run skyrim with higher than console settings, so I don't feel too left out yet.
Yea. SSD is absolutely one of the best investments i made recently.
Everything just runs 2-3x faster and all apps launch very fast and as well.
I had a Q6600 as well but needed to update recently. I had 8gb ram and frequently I ran into insufficient memory so I had to upgrade that as well.
so I got a new CPU, mobo, ram and SSD
I am still using my old geforce GTX 460 2gb. I will upgrade GPU once PCI 3 cards come out.
the new parts are:
i7 3930K
asus p9x79 pro (pci-x 3.0 ready and 64gb max ram)
32gb ram (was cheap 8x4gb = ~$170)
ocz agility 3 240 gb (boot drive)
OCZ vertex 3 90gb (scratch disk and page file drive)
my suggestion. get a very good CPU - preferebly i7 2600K or up and then as suggested above get a second best GPU - something little cheaper than the above average GPUs. i recommend nvidia since they have more compatibility with autodesk products over all.
Yeah the folly of the gamer-build.
1. Never do SLI with a workstation, if you can avoid it don't pay extra for SLI capability on your motherboard either. Paying more for large motherboards with 10 extra slots is worthless if you'll never use them. Extra overclocking features are worthless as well, the i7 2600K overclocks itself as needed.
I like Micro ATX mobos these days, because honestly what else do you need? Note when looking at MATX: watch where the sata ports are, often times a large video card will block them.
2. Bigger, more expensive power supplies do not = better. Best thing to do is buy a well rated, 80+ efficient reasonably sized (400-550w) power supply with free shipping(cause shipping can be an extra $20 for a PSU). I would also go for a modular PSU over a higher wattage one if both were in the same price range.
3. Bigger, more expensive cases do not = better. Huge heavy cases with room for 5 optical drives and 7 disk drives are total overkill. As well as the glowing LED fan shit they sell to tweens/ricers. Get a medium sized case, with good construction, good airflow, toolless drive bays, and enough room to fit a full size video card. Anything beyond that is fluff.
4. Ram Ram Ram, its so cheap, 16gb, 32gb - why not?
From my research, to get the most out of your power supply, you should figure out what your load power draw (i.e. what you draw under high demand like high spec games) and your idle power draw. Choose an efficient power supply (the 80+, like you said) that your hardware will utilize between 50% and 75% draw from idle to load. The 50% to 75% utilization range yields the best efficiency (i.e. the least power wasted as heat). So if you have a draw of 250W idle to 500W load, you should have a power supply that offers about 650W peak (this would be a high end system, mind you).
The case you get is very important. You want a case that mounts the PSU on the bottom, and draws air from under the case (intake faces downward) through a ventilated base and out the back. This will keep the PSU much cooler than a top mounted setup. A top mounted setup cools the PSU with air that has already been past the CPU, GPU, HDD, and RAM. Bottom mounting eliminates an entire source of heat from the loop and reduces the case's ambient temperature as well.
Bigger cases are good if you're building a multimedia server (i.e. many hard drives to store your movies in an NAS). Just be certain that you have a suitable PSU for all of those hard drives. For workstations, they aren't necessary.
Everything else is good advice.
MAXIMUM AIRFLOW
ALWAYS WANTED TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!! with totally silent cooling and ssd drives so it would be 0 db
Not really interested in having this argument again, realistic PSU usage was covered extensively the last time we talked about it.
Not sure how you get that the case is not important or that airflow is not important out of what I said.
Even airflow is of marginal importance unless you live in a very hot climate and don't have air conditioning, or are overclocking all your components, or have everything crammed into a super small case. I've never had a computer fail, or a computer not run optimally simple because I didn't buy the case with the best possible airflow.
If a case in the same price range has vastly superior airflow? Get it of course, if you spend twice as much just so you can wank off to your awesome airflow that makes no real difference in your system, whats the point?
Lets be completely realistic here, unless you're buying the cheapest possible, crappy case case you can find, you'll only see a marginal difference in airflow from a good case to a great or exceptional case. This is for normal use mind you, not LEET GAMER OVERCLOCKIN CITY.
Right, a multi-media server, which is... take it slow... a bit different than a personal workstation. Larger cases are extreme overkill for normal use, and having 10 drive bays is just a waste of space.
All of it is good advice, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered typing it up.
Put your money into what is actually going to make your system faster, not bells and whistle that make you feel good when you post your system specs on your favorite overclocking forum.
You sort of just described my current work PC, though rather than a 8800, I've got a 9600gt, Vista rather than 7, and no SSD. I'm running it with a 80+ 520w power supply, and various silent cooling parts.
The only things I regret are that I went slightly overboard with the motherboard and my case is way too big. It was nice having all that extra space when I first put the thing together, but after that all that extra space is just wasted.
I would have totally built a microATX based PC like perna did had I known it was possible to build a workstation with such a small form factor. Maybe next time
Therefore I buy the most powerful system I possibly can price be dammed. I work to many hours and play to many hours on the things to put up with any compromises.
Getting Older I find it alot easier to just spend large wads of money as death feels closer as bones begin to creak and scream out in pain.
Plus I like to put as much led light pronz as possible because it looks bitching ( seriously anyone who can build and light a bitching sculpt should be talented enough to build and light a bitching looking computer )
Same argument...
Been in front of a computer off and on for 20 years. Why not be next to a computer that you like looking at.
watercooling if you are going to overclock. I render up to 30 percent faster with outrageous overclocks. If anyone knows how to run a 4.500 MHz 24/7 without watercooling and superior japanese components on their motherboards I would love to hear it. Otherwise get a beefy motherboard because they can take the punishment. ( running 24/7 for two years is proof enough. I suffered long enough already by trying to go cheap on motherboards )
Lastly.. Modding and overclocking... benchmarking epeen and the tangible power advantage you get from overclocking is a lot of fun.
( sort of like custom car culture... or audiophile home theatre... Now being chained to a computer becomes an enjoyable "active" experience )
Just like my first car ( bright red 1976 camaro last year with the chrome bumper jes like bumble bee....erm but red )_It makes me happy!
Being a creative type person can be a negative however. once you invest in a dremel one can waste a lot of productive hours modding without end. That way does lead to madness.
Also:
With the new Radeons comes price drops for Nvidias. Supposedly the 560's have already dropped.
Kepler will be released in opposite order this year ( consumer then enthusiast ) so if u were going consumer anyway and wanted nvidia's superior driver record than u might want to wait for the first round of Keplers.
If you want a bitching fast computer, that will match speeds for the longest time I am betting on the ivybridge-e to be released with pci-e 3.0 and ivy-e i7 power later this year ( Gulftown is 20% more powerful than a 2600k in rendering cg usage. And has only been surbassed slightly with the new x79 sndybridge-e cpus ) That is the kind of staying power that makes a good investment ie: going from gulftown to ivybridge-e kept you on top for two years. To make another significant boost ( the current sandybridge-e king is certainly NOT significant compared to a gulftown in a cinebench render ) in rendering times with 22nm technology is going to also probably be as long as a run.
The distance between Kepler and Maxwell is supposed to be as large as well. And considering Maxwell will be released next year in 2013 then an ivybridge-e and maxwell combination looks like a very satisfying machine.
To sli or not to sli?
I do not have a single game that has a sli issue except starcraft. And in that case I do not need sli ( because blizzard will ban me for running the game with a multi monitor surround hack ) and SLI can be disabled in the control panel. So where is the issue? ( nvidia will usually have a sli fix in less than a month in my positive experience. The sli argument is pretty over exagerated. nvidia's shows a commitment to SLI tweaks with every driver release )
On the other hand. 3d in an immersive experience is NOT the 3D of movies. 3D in multi-monitor surround brings more to the immersive table then any other advancement in my gaming experience since I got a magnavox odessey for xmas. There is no way to enjoy Battlefield 3 or metro 2033 or Batman arkham city or any other modern "GEM" @ 6050 x 1080 in glorious 3d without SLI.
If you are considering going 3d I would recommend getting the 27inch models. ( 3 of which is an epic experience ).
I find it very enjoyable to let others play 3d surround for the very first time on my system. ( the expression "holy shit!" or Whoa!! is very satisfying especially when coming from someone claiming to hate 3d. With interactivity the immersion makes 3d stereo every bit as compelling/obvious as Aural stereo that and a viewer's wide peripheral vision is reflected better/honestly with the added resolution multi-monitors offer. )
Sadly there is no openGL 3d with geforce cards and you need a quadro system for Maya's active stereo 3d panels. As a poor substitute I use Maya's anaglyph in the panel options for interactive 3d sculpting. Which is sad because the immediacy of your scuplts form is very revealing when before you as realistic as any sculpey maquette. The only real solution is to export to engine for a "REAL" stereo preview.( with a high convergene setting there is a toyifying macro effect that truly gives your model a realistic impression as if it was before you as a 3dprint )
That toy effect is especially satisfying with starcraft... playtime with your toy soldiers spreadout over the carpet was never this immersive.
Personally I am going to stick with my i7 980x and tri sli gtx 480 system till the aforementioned ivybridge-e an Maxwell solution is final next year. But I only have one 256 gig crucial c300 ssd. LSI just bought sandforce so expect another wave of SSD improvements as well soon!
I am definitely going with a bench next year, however I would love to do a desk project like the: L3p D3sk
[ame="
Next upgrade for me: SSD drive for OS, new MOBO, GPU, RAM, CPU, and probably a blu ray drive. That could be done I reckon with a £600 budget. Definitely looking forward to the performance improvement.
Looking at getting this from Amazon (haven't pressed the Send button yet):
[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-3-4GHz-Corsair-1600MHz-Bundle/dp/B004U59PU2/ref=sr_1_10?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1325507237&sr=1-10"]Intel i7 2600 Quad Core 3.4GHz CPU, Asus P8P67 PRO REV 3, Corsair 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Bundle BU108: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories[/ame]
Bundle with motherboard, cpu and RAM, bundle mainly so I don't have to wonder if the things I get, actually work together. Want a SSD drive as well, as I noticed thats usually a bottleneck, however they are kinda expensive so might put that on my future wishlist.
I'd recommend that you get at least a 60GB SSD for your Windows/apps drive and use a regular higher capacity one for your working files. A clean Windows 7 install leaves about 45GB, a little less than 40 after I've installed all my DCC apps. If you switch off restore points or save them to a different drive. Makes a huge difference imo.
Roughly none at all.
Good choice on the I7 over buying dedicated cooling/etc to overclock, it really just virtually never makes sense to spend LESS on a CPU and then MORE on cooling so you can OC it, potentially void your warranty, lessen the lifespan, increase the risk of total failure and stress your ram, mobo, etc with increase power usage that everything just wasn't designed for.
Claydough mentions his 30% boost with his likely quite expensive OC setup, but spending $100 more on the I7 vs the I5 will get you the same boost. So really, unless you've got more time and money than sense, OCing isn't a good option.
People who tout overclocking as a sensible and cost conscious choice are biased hobbyists, plain and simple.
I never go over $1000 CAD for a system build. You should be able to build a plenty powerful system for that kind of dough.
Forget aluminium cases, removable mobo trays and all that other nonsense. Good airflow is another hobbyist statistic that you are unlikely to take advantage of. As long as your components are operating within normal temperature you don't need a $200 case with formula 1 venturi tunnels. The PC hardware market is heavily about accessorising so trim the fat and get the practical items.
That said, with my current build I had noise in mind so I've invested in a separate low noise cpu cooler as well as quiet case fans and video card. But it wasn't anything budget blowing. Now I enjoy a very quiet machine that was well within reasonable budget.
Your budget may jump over if you elect to go with a SSD solution but those are actual benefits you may be able to take advantage of.
Yep, and by the time you buy your $200 case, $200 water cooling system, $300 motherboard etc, you could have simply purchased better hardware and ran it at stock settings.
If high end rendering is really a concern, you can go dual CPU as well.
That is true, but there's a premium price to be paid if you want both cooled and silent, not to mention that people will often have those hulking beasts clearly visible on or under their desk, in the same world where people pay premium prices for apple products or decorate their workplace in the most expensive ways.
So yeah, no one should go overboard on prices when it comes to things that might be unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to get something that looks good on the outside considering a chassis is one of those things that you can keep using for quite a few total upgrades.
Lian Li makes nice clean boxes as well, or you could go ahead and make a mini/micro pc with a very neat and clean looking box. But the ungodly led laden behemoths that tout superior performance are just a fad. They are not attractive or really all that practical unless you rebuild your system every other week.
But I thought that SSD also got a price raise, but it didn't, only HDD?
I can only see one problem Im going to have with the SSD: I can't hear when the harddisk is working.
Greevar: Yeah $100 is the max I would spend on a case too, and I've built perfectly acceptable systems for friends/reletives and my HTPC for $40-60 range. People can get a bit too worked up about the quality of a case they'll only ever open a few times, and will rarely ever move.
I just put together an I3 system with 8 gigs of ram, 120GB SSD, 430w antec PSU and an Antec 300 which was only $50 but decent construction and a good amount of fans with built in speed control. The build was for my sister in law, about $490, and super super quiet. I threw in a fanless nvidia 7600GS that used to be in my HTPC. This was a lower end build, but really you can go quiet pretty cheap even with higher end stuff. I didn't intent for a quiet build(she could care less) but it just sort of worked out that way.
As far as design/attractiveness of case, I like very minimal utilitarian cases. I dont want glowing lights or plastic windows or any of that stuff, I did when I was a tween building my computer, but that stuff is just embarrassing to me now.
Yes you have to be insane, the price performance ratio is crazy.
You would definitely have to enjoy the effect.
Would be as effective as commuting to work with yer fuel being burned with:
Or as effective as impregnating my girlfriend orally?
Of course we know these things really do not make us happy?
I know I work a lot better when I don't hear my computer.
For game development? Maybe. Not for film/tv work though.
I've had some significant gain's in rendering speed after overclocking my i7 to 4++ghz, Renderman just scales so well with clockspeed. I'm also a big believer in third party cooling, mainly because I live in a hot climate where even stock speeds are 10-15 degrees hotter. Cooler temperatures also mean your hardware lasts longer, and with all the stress these render machines go through it's a no brainer.
But I agree that it's overkill if all you're working on is game assets. But for those already working with the best consumer hardware available, it doesn't cost much to buy a few extra accessories for that extra performance.
Sure, if you've already purchase the most expensive high end hardware you possibly could and still need more, OCing is about your only choice. However, for heavy rendering work, you're probably better off buying two mid-range CPUs, because after the insane price curve, and cost for high end cooling, your system is still unlikely faster than say, a box with 2x I7 2600k's.
Anyway, this sort of argument that SOME PEOPLE NEED TO DO IT!!!! is silly, if you're one of the 1% of people that need/want to build these sort of computers, you're not on polycount asking for advice, you've already gone out and built your computer.
Living in a warm climate, or especially without air conditioning is a very legitimate concern for extra cooling though.
Sucks living smack dab on the equator, but that's how it is :P It's 2.30 am and I'm sweating like crazy.
Yeah its easy to forget how cheap hardware is in the US. Where are you located anyway?
You can work on anything, you could probably put together a $500 computer that will run all the apps that you need just fine.
Also having shitty hardware forces you to work a bit more efficiently
Umm yes.
the performance benefit is practical when I say ahhhh after hitting the button.
That I am satisfied is the only measure of practicality.
Can u prove me wrong? no.
A 2600k renders a cinebench of 7
increased threads and the overclock room of an extreme processor like the i7-990x allows it to render 24/7 ( quietly at that with wc ) at a cinebench of 12 nearly 2 of those 2600k with no other desk or system clutter to manage than your main machine. Now that the x79 boards are out for rendering purposes two 2600ks' are now slower than ONE extreme cpu!
These 12 threads are very empowering! even if only nearly as fast as two 2600k machines you must consider that these overclocked threads are truly liberating when multitasking WITHOUT leaving that one environment. Where threaded rendering also means threaded baking. Forget lightmass on 12 threads from a single machine and consider starting a lightmass preview and jumping to Zbrush during that bake to do some detail work. Problem with High Poly detail work is that when you zoom in you lose the perspective of ithat details relation to the whole?? Unless you just stretch that DENSE sculpt's document to fill three 27 inch monitors which brilliantly brings back into focus that detail in relation to the whole ( a universal design consideration pounded into you at any prestigous art institution ) Possible because Zbrush brilliantly maximizes all 12 threads ( not spread across two machines but the one you are sculpting on. WHERE IT"S NEEDED ) But forget ZBrush maximizing all 12 hyperthread because, remember we have divided this workload with the lightmass bake! But it really isn't multitasking until in the heat of your detail work your crazy creative voice who is usually angry because it is being told that it cannot follow the path it wants to take or is angry because performance has halted... instead that crazy voice is squealing like a baby pig in a GEICO commercial because in the heat of that dense detail work revealed across three 27 inch moitors while into a lightmass bake the crazy voice in your head screams out HOSANNA! I NEED to see that high res texture asset that I've been waxing on lately dropped on this detail NOW!
This is no problem because of course Photoshop has been open all this time. ( even if SSD 0 RAIDed makes that advantage negligible ) Now you are multi-tasking! Your creativity is not tragically halted.
The power of all three applications ( particularly ZBruch and UDK ) are leveraging the power of those 12 threads. Without having to tragically halt! And navigate away to any other system.
Since the Sandy Bridge-e i7s' are not really that much more powerful for one's rendering needs then an i7-980/990x almost as much power with just as many threads can now be had a lot cheaper then the $980 I paid when they first arrived. They still go quick though... I saw some last month when the extreme sandybridges finally came out for $600 but I can't find those anymore!
except for this $699.99 + shipping.
Even this cheap, the performance is far from a competitive price. If a fair value is your ultimate concern.
Besides multi-tasking there is one other distinction that is missing which is a little abstract.
But I submit that spending a ridiculous amount of money on a powerful system is a different thing completely if it is not the top end of what power is available realistically. In that scenario you can be consistently caught buying at the wrong time or the wrong technology ( like being stuck with the enthusiast socket 939s' at the end of their cycle when am3 Motherboards were viable up to the present )
Consider on the other hand, that there is tangible relief to a HUGE amount of creative suffering! By Just buying the most powerful cycle of hardware that you can.
If its CG work that is. ( There are plenty of tasks a 2600k is more suited for and will trump gulftown! )
But if forced to work on a slower machine with less Multi-tasking threaded power?
The suffering and compromise is easily felt!
Also fast stable RAM makes a huge difference even with say Zbrush without 64bit support. It still benefits because the system still allows me to leverage that Zbrush!
Sorry for the long thread but "expensive systems == gaming computer and not CG computer" seems misinformed when in my experience the exact opposite is true!
Heck! I imagine that its easy enough with a 4 core to understand how much more empowering a cg pipeline feels compared to the absolute torture of an old dual core? Depending if that dual core had enough processing power to not be CPU bound. A game on that dual core might feel essentially the same.
This is what you really buy when you always go with top shelf ( Catch 22: you only know that feeling of suffering created by the distance in technology. And once you feel it... it is suffering to go back! )
I could understand, if polycount was a secretarial forum! this "divide between bleeding edge and utilitarian". I even understand an economic divide!
But because computers are in the end, NO WHERE NEAR AS POWERFUL TO COME EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO SATISFYING ALL THE FRUSTRATING COMPROMISES I FEEEEEEEL EVERYDAY! It just seems obviously idiotic questioning as I pointed out buying the most power possible.
Seems like I stepped into some kind of oppositeland type Twillight Zone episode.
And even with the economic concern. It isn't like it is that expensive! We are still talking about the the accessible level of a consumer market not some esoteric enterprise solution or military/scientific cray super computer. If you adopt such a philosophy and consistently buy uncompromisingly in regards to possible power given to a consumer product than at the most you would only need to spend about $2500 every other year! Not to judge anyone who could not afford that. There are endless situations/circumstances where one's budget would matter. But thats true even if the price was $100 a year!
Do most you guys never simply live for the best epicurean experience you can get without compromise?
Would you apply the same philosophy to buying groceries? Say steak? Would you never by rib eye/tender loin/Sirloin? Personally buying a london broil would be a punishment to me. Why would I put punishment in my mouth? Despite the ridiculous price of steak I would not compromise on anything I bought at market. period!
The car is a better example. Because here we can cross a threshold of affordability that $2500 did not represent.
Knowing that. In the end you still do not compromise and buy the MOST expensive car that you want And can AFFORD? ( hopefully by God! )
Is it not then, absolutely ridiculous to judge the tangible bliss of the love for your car? Yet your car is a hell of a lot more expensive than the computers we are talking about! ( hopefully.. sorry if anyone is stuck driving a junker ) And in many ways, being the tool of your craft is infinitely more important than your car. After all your car is only there to take you back and forth to that tool! To WORK! Your work! Considering I bought a Mac IIfx out of college ( video capture! ) that was $10,000.00 ! Just because I could do video capture ( plus it had a ton of memory and was powerful! ). 3 years later I got Avid's first affordable product, the Media Suite Pro. It came on Quadra 900. ( I still have all the parts cables computer and dongle!.. even the booklets and software ) This was also $10,000! but a much better deal because of the proprietary hardware.
( I could do NTSC full screen in real time! HOLY SHIT! ) :poly136:
Now with the benefit of hindsight was that worth $10,000!?? You bet your ass it was! That was an amazing experience! At the turn of the century I got Mirai in trade for 3 months of labor $6000 and an SGI 02. I have lost my copy of this defunkt software but I think the explosion of talent we have today that has made polys the deFacto modeling standard would not have been as large without Mirai. Certainly this defunct software changed my life profoundly. What was it worth? PRICLESS.
In hindsight my lifes experiences were worth every dollar in the world!.
So how is the incredible bargain to live this life without compromising your experiences anything but a bargain considering how cheap all this stuff is now! Or can u imagine telling yourself in 1990 how cheap memory and hardrives are(were in the sad case of hard drives ) for the best of the best. Your past self would consider doing as much "The Promised Land". And I suppose it is.
Isn't creating cg work with technology still magic? In which case what would we do (with the market dissapearing into mobile phones and consoles) if your cheapest computer became $10,000 dollars overnight?? I am willing to bet that with no other option that $10,000 would be a priority for more of you than you think.
Either way, got my new i7 and discovered what I forgot: The damn thing is too big for my case. :P Not surprising since its a Dell, and it seem its setup strangely, but either way I need to get a new one. Been looking at cases but have a problem judging the size I need.
So what size case would I need for my motherboard (P8Z68-V LX, http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68V_LX/) ? Can I use a midi tower, or do I need to get a large one?
Where you go wrong with this is assuming everyone gets a massive boner by owning the BEST COMPUTER. Its just not the case, this is a very niche thing that only nerdy PC builders actually care about. Your average person, and average game artist doesn't care, they just want a quality system to do their work at a reasonable price. Buying the highest end stuff is always a bad value. ALWAYS.
Whenever we have these threads we get these ridiculous nerds that feel the need to live vicariously through other people by recommending the most insane PC components they can find. Sure, if you're one of the 1% of people that are into that sort of thing, go build you own super computer. People coming on polycount asking for advice are generally not that extreme, and are generally budget conscious.
So stop acting like everyone who asks for advice is an enthusiast looking for the *best build ever omgggg* if they were, they wouldn't be asking for advice on polycount in the first place, they would just go out and do it.
Again, I'm still rocking a Q6600 and JUST upgraded my 8800GT to a 560 Ti because I got one for free! I do high end professional game art outsourcing, sure baking AO could be a little faster, but my computer does NOT hold me back. A stock 2500K or 2600K is significantly faster, OCing a 2600K and especially spending extra on silly watercooling and "high end" components is extreme overkill.
Now again, if you're building a RENDERBOX, your priorities may be different, we're talking about a workstation for game art here though, where straight up rendering is going to be a small % of the actual work.