Zbrush: Hard surface help

HAWK12HT

Hi all, I have never used Zbrush before and would like to know the best possible way to learn fast hard suface modelling for game assets, like some of Gears 3 assets. My aim is to focus only on hard surface, industrial design and sci fi theme.

So far Zbrush Central has basic stuff and I dont plan to pay yet for training.

Joshua Stubbles

Not to be a dick, but, really?

There are tons of resources on the web. If you want to do mech stuff in Zbrush I suggest you get the Eat3D tutorials.

Rockley Bonner

Whats a google?

Ace-Angel

Ugh, I wrote a pretty hefty post about this, but the forums seems to have lost it, bleh.

Anyhow, here is what I had typed.

-Masking and Inflate are you best friends.
-Second best friends are Morphs and Layers.
-Don't stick to one mesh, just like in real-life, HD objects are layered (EI: the grip of the gun should have the cover-grip, screws, etc in different mesh's) use that to your advantage.
-Polish brush = surface flatten and cleanup.
-Dynamesh + Add/Sub poly function.

The only real tutorials I advice from HD is the 2 from eat3D.

HAWK12HT

Not to be a dick, but, really?

There are tons of resources on the web. If you want to do mech stuff in Zbrush I suggest you get the Eat3D tutorials.

Ye "Really" cause some genious told me pros live here at Poly count and "Ace-Angel" answered like a pro that was very helpful.
As I said hard surface industrial design stuff and not organic apparantley lot of free stuff is organic and the hard surface stuff is locked down tight. Few good vids on youtube that just show what they made.

HAWK12HT

I mean srsly i asked about getting upto speed on a specific topic within Zbrush and people dont like it.

Avanthera

Don't be a dick.

Ace-Angel

OK, lets all calm down, shall we? Many of us aren't well versed in Google-Fu, let alone finding free-stuff which doesn't end up taking us in some warez site where temptation is strong, so lets all chill.

I think the safest bet is youtube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hard+surface+zbrush&oq=hard+surface+zbrush&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=39l61l0l13452l3l1l0l0l0l0l177l177l0.1l1l0

Anything by Ryan Kingsley, Mike Jensen, Jesse Sandifer should be gold. Also, look up for anything related to Shadowbox, and in R2 clip, dynamesh and clips.

HAWK12HT

Don't be a dick.

???

Ace-Angel, Thanks again I ll have a look on those too. Cheers.

pior

Hi there and welcome.

Zbrush can help for the blocking out stage, but if you want to be serious about hard surface modeling you'll have to learn how to do it with proper polygons and subdivision. The examples you mention (Gears3, industrial design, sci fi props) rely much much more on regular modeling than on zbrushing. It's true that there are some zbrush techniques that can help, as highlighted by the Eat3D DVDs. But in the long run and in within realistic production constraints you will quickly realize that there are no workarounds - polygon modeling is where it's at.

Zbrush hard surface also has a tendency to go in a "direction of its own", making it hard to follow a locked concept provided by a concept artist. (the Eat3d DVD show that quite obviously).

I would recommend you to get familiar enough with Zbrush to create clean-ish hardsurface sketches in it, and then retopo that to get a real clean subdivision-friendly mesh from there.

But as usual, instead of asking abstract questions I would rather recommend you to post WIP pictures of what you are currently trying to achieve. That is how you will get the best (pro) critiques and advice.

Joshua Stubbles

pior wrote: »

But as usual, instead of asking abstract questions I would rather recommend you to post WIP pictures of what you are currently trying to achieve. That is how you will get the best (pro) critiques and advice.

This. You ask ridiculous questions and you will get ridiculous answers. We ARE a forum of professionals, but why post here, wasting time, when the answers were easily found through a search? If you're wanting some more specific as Pior mentioned, post images and be more in depth in describing what you want to achieve.

HAWK12HT

Ty Pior, yes its always about making the actual surface using polys in 3d apps and use Zbrush to add details which i believe is the case you mentioned in Gears 3 .

Ofcourse i will post WIP once i will start, for now its about where to start from .

HAWK12HT

Seems like some people didnt get the question right or I think some are just too proud in their "Proism", which is kinda not nice.
But ty to those who actually understood what i was looking for and helped me.

Not every1 learn by showing what they do and get a specific advice on the place where they get stuck, well atleast I dont want to learn this way cause I have seen first hand where it leads to.....some people who do this and get contract for project (or job in industry) and client ask for something specific and than they realise they dont know how it (software) acutally works and just fill help forums (not Poly in specific) like Autocad, Area and likes of them asking people to do the job for them.

Joshua Stubbles

*facepalm* You're saying I'm either rude or don't understand? First off, I'm about the most humble artist ever. I'm not stuck up nor do I have an ego. I'm -trying- to help you. I learned the exact.same.way. This community was a lot harder on new people when I became a member 10yrs ago. You can't get everything spoon-fed to ya.

The point I was making is that you came here, posting a thread about a problem that was easily solvable within 20 seconds of searching on Google. Instead, you wasted time coming here, posting a question and waiting for answers. In that time, you could have already had your answer and been working on art. You learn a lot more by practicing than asking a question and waiting for a response.

If you truly get stuck on something that's really difficult, please by all means ask for help. But there are a lot of resources on Google and on our very own wiki that could have answered your question easily. That's all I'm saying.

HAWK12HT

umm I never used names and i was speaking in general not pointing fingers at neone, So my bad if i unintentionally upset u. The whole point of the post i made was based on the research ive made after using google and Poly wiki is my all time fav even b4 i became a member here.
The main point was that all good stuff that google show is for buy from sites people mentioned here or is mostly free organic creature based, apparantley people love making monsters with Z alot than some Industrial Design elements.
Also I think its about time we all chill out enjoy holidays and Xmas. Cheers.

cryrid

You should take a look at the beta tester threads if you haven't, specifically the ones known to do hard-surface projects. Mike Jenson has videos and tips that he used, as does Nicolas Garilhe and Steve Warner. Etcher has some hard surface stuff too (be sure to follow the links in his sig for more). I believe this thread also shared a few different techniques for creating various shapes found on that bike model. And of course there is Ryan Kingslien, who has a similar workshop where he creates a gun, but probably more important are the ones where he goes over the basics (various brush/stroke/alpha settings, the planar/trim/clipping brushes, etc).

Edit: I forgot this older Projection-Master series might even be helpful for some hard-surface things as well.

apparantley people love making monsters with Z alot than some Industrial Design elements.

The hard surface stuff is still relatively new in zbrush, only being refines more in the last few versions, and some would still find it lacking compared to subdivision modeling.

Rockley Bonner

Arguing after given advice hints at a weak/unexperienced artist. Even if you think the advice is rude take from it and roll, develop a thick skin. If anything, be humbled that people that know there stuff are taking time to help.

BTW are you starting with z brush? I have done the same, and after aquiring a bread and butter modeling program I was allitel confused becasue I was comparing functions with z brush. Ive been told personaly i should start with a modeling standard program Maya/3ds max before z brush.

happy holidays!

pior

Not every1 learn by showing what they do and get a specific advice on the place where they get stuck, well atleast I dont want to learn this way cause I have seen first hand where it leads to.....some people who do this and get contract for project (or job in industry) and client ask for something specific and than they realise they dont know how it (software) acutally works and just fill help forums (not Poly in specific) like Autocad, Area and likes of them asking people to do the job for them.

Don't worry, it wont happen that way. All you need is :

- Beginner polygon modeling knowledge for subdivision (Max, Maya, XSI - The Johan of Arc tutorials should be enough to cover it);
- Basic zbrush skills to make rough blockout models (Zbrush or Mudbox. The Angler Fish video was enough to cover all the Zbrush basics back in the days of Zbrush2, and Mudbox requires no tutorial because it's so easy to use anyways);
- A good knowledge of a retopolgy tool like Topogun to tie it all together (there are many videos on the TG website).

All this can be learned rather quickly, with good tuts and DVDs and advice from a place like Polycount whenever you're stuck. (Topogun in about a day ; Zbrush and/or Mudbox in about a week ; and Max's editpoly in a week or two).

Everything else comes from your artistic eye... and this takes the longest time to train. So get started now, practice a lot of traditional drawing to train your eye and show your stuff! That's all there is to it really.

Art knowledge first, digital imagery programs second. Many beginners don't believe or refuse to accept it, but that's the truth. Take a badass traditionnal sculptor, teach him/her some Max and Zbrush basics, and you'll get badass CG art under a week. Take an art noob and teach him or her the same programs - you'll get years of crappy plasticky models and no progress whatsoever

HAWK12HT

Whats a google?

It dont count as a advice....
lol no i am not Starting with Zbrush. In this mean World being humble not always work you have to b tough and have a voice to share your point of view.
hpy holidays to u too man and all


I love that Beta testing link Cryrid, That will do alot in the long run. Ty

HAWK12HT

really appreciate your help guys. Dont get me wrong this time Im not showing off just feel like showing what i know so we can understand our level of communication.

here check my sketchbook and C&C welcome, that is if you like to spare ur time. cheers
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92440

Computron

Mane

Dude, you could check 3D palace for hard surface tutorials, here is for max and Maya, and also have Mudbox and Zbrush combined, and yes that tutorial is with creating monster half mechanical, half organics, i think.

I have too problem finding tutorials, Google for it. But the only one i have is CGnuggets, $10 per month, both EAT3D tutorials from Mike.