As Fingus said they can really help out with texturing indeed. There is probably a way to write down a shader that replaces normal maps and use PRT maps instead.
Its like having a normal map which has some soft self-shadowing.
If I had to make the shader in udk, I would probably use the light vector as a mask and interpolate between the different channels of the PRT map depending on the light direction.
Only draw back is that you'll have to use 2 textures instead of one compared to normal maps.
Might be better to use it on key assets such as characters or vehicles.
Man. These pillars are looking great. The bake for the first one looks fantastic. I'm glad you took the advice to unify the patterns in it though. Its always inspiring to check in on this thread!
Why you sculpt each model individually, instead of make some tileable texture and wrap them around model ? I see quite a bit of repeating patterns of this and previous column.
Why you sculpt each model individually, instead of make some tileable texture and wrap them around model ? I see quite a bit of repeating patterns of this and previous column.
You try add damages as decals.
Mainly because I'm doing this for my portfolio, I need to push the quality further and train myself at making such assets.
I'm saving the tileable textures for much larger structures which will be in the end covered with a multitude of models that will be duplicated and placed differently.
In the end the quality of a uniquely sculpted model will always be better then one made for tiled texturing due to the fact that the ambient occlusion and other shading maps will have correct display.
On the other hand, I hate seams
If I had to apply tessellation on this column, I wouldn't have to worry about seams showing up in the areas where there's a UV cut.
How do you go about adding cracks and damage? What tools? Suppose you use Mudbox?
Anyway, looks cool!
I mostly use the scrap brush to sculpt the damage and chisels on the edges of each block or tile.
The cracks are painted through stencil projection with the basic sculpt brush.
Once all that is done, I then add a high frequency detail pass with a stamp brush to give it a stone like surface.
Finished the low poly model and baked out the textures :
I'll have to create some LODs for this one since the poly-count is quite high for a pillar (2600 tris)
Edit :
Quickly lowered down the poly-count on the column :
awesome work as usual!
As for the parallax, at least in those static images it doesn't have a huge impact, perhaps while in motion
Thanks man, and yea looks much better in motion with the reflection/spec. The screenshots doesn't give it much justice
I think that its definitely worth it, might aswell render a heightmap for the previously made assets to push the quality further.
I agree with iniside, this would probably have been more practical if it were done with tiling strips, which you could then use to trim other areas and keep it consistent.
D1ver, m4dcow : thanks for the advice guys, I'll see what I can do on that part.
Might aswell remake some of the tileable textures since I'm not too fancy off the ones I made.
Sircalalot : I don't think that I'm going to overuse the bloom like in those games. They used it to cover up the draw distance issues and the ugly lods.
I went ahead and scanned some of my sketches and then redrew them up in photoshop.
This stuff is mostly wip :
Nice work. I like that pillar. Strongly urge you to make re-usable textures, as other have said. It's ideal for a project like this. Will also make your hipoly modelling much easier as you only need to put your details on a flat plane. By messing around with different textures you might get some nice random results you didn't think of before.
So quick question, I'm not very experienced in mudbox and I watched some of your videos. You then said in this thread that you used Alphas/Stencils to create the cracks. Could you provide a quick example of some of these stencils, I dont want to copy them just want to see a example.
nice work as always,
gonna try out painting the sky in mudbox for my next project like you said a while back,
just wanted to thank you for sharing that!
Here is a quick demonstration of a technique that I'm trying out for making tiled sculpting. Its based on voxel and uses tiled instanced voxels to preview the changes I do on the original mesh...
...I'll make a full video walk-through on how you can use this texturing alternative once I get a better mic.
I'd absolutely love to see a tutorial on setting this up! 3D Coat is awesome.
Also, you said that you made the islands in 3D coat and then brought them back into Mudbox to detail them. Could you explain the process for doing this because I tried it myself and couldn't get it to work. 3D Coat exported tris or models with T planes and mudbox complained every time. When I finally did get it to work by using retopo in 3DCoat, The details didn't show up properly in mudbox.
Hi Choco,
Not sure if you're still actively checking this thread, but I was wondering if you could shed a little light on the scale of your CE3 map. In your flyovers and screenshots, it looks like you've got a massive map with a huge scale, and I'm just wondering what combination of terrain size/density you use to achieve it.
Sorry for the late reply, I have been busy moving to my new location.
I just got hired a few weeks ago by Guerrilla-games at Amsterdam, and I'm really happy to join the team while working on my first game in the industry!
(PS : Its a freaking awesome studio and city, so if you are an environment artists, don't hesitate to apply!)
nice work as always,
gonna try out painting the sky in mudbox for my next project like you said a while back,
just wanted to thank you for sharing that!
Thanks LuCh,
Definitely, mudbox is a good solution for painting your skydoms. Here is one of my last tests which I did a month ago based on a few photographs that I took from my balcony:
Hey man, glad you find the demo useful.
As for the creation of the floating island, what I did was export the voxel mesh as a "dense quads mesh".
Mudbox will complain about "none-manifold" geometry but for you that only means that you can't subdivide the mesh in mudbox to increase the detail if needed.
So, I just went with brute force and increased the resolution in 3dcoat before exporting the mesh to mudbox in order to paint the extra detail.
To be honest the playable area isn't that big at all.
Most of the times I use a 2km² terrain which represents lots of space for a one person team when working on an environment. But in order to give the illusion that the level is bigger, I just extended it with some models or sometimes some simple "planes which have a mountain texture applied to them".
You need to keep in mind that a real life mountain covers over 2km², and having one in your level, would be more of an unrealistic goal when it comes down to creating a level with the tech which is currently available to public.
(speaking from a one men's "army" point of view and aiming for a high amount of fidelity (fps or rpg) ).
At some point, its better to keep the mountains as an element of background unless your level is built on it, which will make things more challenging.
As for the updates, tbh, I have none at the moment since I'm focusing at the stuff whats given to me at work haha
I'll post stuff whenever I get something interesting to show
oh guerilla games is great! And dude, you really deserved it! Looking forward to your work. I hope you won't forget us while we're waiting for your next awesome stuff...
Choco - you were always one of my greatest inspirations. It's truly awesome to have followed your pre-industry work. You have truly started a new chapter in your life and I feel confident in speaking for everyone on PC - We can't wait to see what kind of stuff you pump out! Don't forget us!
Thanks for the info Choco. Gongrats on the new job! So amazed that its your first! Yeah Guerilla is an awesome studio. Can't wait to see your work in the next Killzone :P
Really nice job Choco! Would have written earlier in this thread if I would have been to see it before I did, but I write now and I say Gratz man! Well deserved job, and really awesome stuff!!! Already a fan Keep it up
Why do I only read this by now :O. Great to see you got a job Guerilla, the new footage they released looks delicious! Hope you're still having a great time in our little country , maybe we should meet some day.
This thread is so inspiring to me, and I've learned quiet a lot from just looking through it! And I still have to watch some of your awesome videotuts!
And this so makes me wanna do a landscapescene!
I'm looking forward to see more of you process. Keep it up. Great work!
As you can see in these images, I'm having problems blending the rocks and the grass, I've setup everything like you do with the desaturated detail textures and using the world position node for the grass, but it's hard to blend the rocks as the terrain colour is always changing, and my grass has strange black outlines? any ideas?
The grass blades are usually always following the curvature of your terrain when painted using the mesh placement tools in UDK or CE3.
So, in order to nicely blend the grass with your terrain you'll need to modify the vertex normals of your grass model to be facing upwards.
This will allow you to get uniform shading between the grass and the terrain.
On the other hand, for grass blade texture, I would suggest to use a highpass filter on the original grass blade texture in photoshop instead of desaturating it.
(in PS : filter --->other---> highpass)
This gives better results when used in conjunction with the Blend_overlay node in UDK.
Try previewing the results of your highpassed texture with the tint map in photoshop before bringing it in UDK.
I noticed that you have some texture scaling issues. You might want to have a consistent texel density all over your environment.
If you could post a screenshot of your tint map and grass blade texture, I might be able to know where the black outlines is coming from.
Lemme ask you, how would you deal with roads going through some mountains, for example? How would you put together spline-modeled roads and terrain seamlessly, in an engine that doesn't have road tools itself?
The grass blades are usually always following the curvature of your terrain when painted using the mesh placement tools in UDK or CE3.
So, in order to nicely blend the grass with your terrain you'll need to modify the vertex normals of your grass model to be facing upwards.
This will allow you to get uniform shading between the grass and the terrain.
On the other hand, for grass blade texture, I would suggest to use a highpass filter on the original grass blade texture in photoshop instead of desaturating it.
(in PS : filter --->other---> highpass)
This gives better results when used in conjunction with the Blend_overlay node in UDK.
Try previewing the results of your highpassed texture with the tint map in photoshop before bringing it in UDK.
I noticed that you have some texture scaling issues. You might want to have a consistent texel density all over your environment.
If you could post a screenshot of your tint map and grass blade texture, I might be able to know where the black outlines is coming from.
Best regards,
Amir
Thanks for getting back to me, I'm not sure what you mean by "tint map", I've been bound by a deadline and I'm doing a project solo instead of as a team so I had a lot of work to cover and as a result a lot of it was rushed, I think the main problems with my environment were:
1. Tried to run before I could walk, I went for a max-sized heighmap and didn't really consider landscape "scale" - as a result I had to scale the draw size of the heightmap to try and make it appear more realistic (the scale is still way off)
2. I couldn't get my normal maps to work on the landscape detail textures, I have no idea why they didn't work as I set the layer system up exactly how you did, so my grass looks very flat and boring.
3. I didn't spend enough time on the grass shaders, if I had more time I could tweak them so they look a bit better.
4. Another problem was setting up the "world position" node so that my grass blades pickup the texture of the landscape, unfortunately even though I calculated everything, and even tested the measurements manually - certain areas just didn't match the colour correctly, I'm assuming it has something to do with me scaling the draw scale of the heightmap, I made sure to center it to the grid so it can't be that!
5. A problem with using a terrain colour map from world machine is that you don't have much control over what colour your textures are going to be in terms of the "blend_overlay" node, what I mean is if there is a white patch on the colour map, the grass I paint on top will be white, is there anyway to bypass that without just deciding to not use a colour map in the first place? (your earlier work - shows perfect colour blending of the rocks & grass, I couldn't achieve this blending!)
Basically because I was bound to a deadline I didn't have the time to tweak out all of these problems, I already spent the majority of my workhours trying to fix other problems, I guess it does just come down to manhours with 3d work.
Thanks again for all the tutorials, very inspiring, here's a few screenshots of my work..
Replies
Its like having a normal map which has some soft self-shadowing.
If I had to make the shader in udk, I would probably use the light vector as a mask and interpolate between the different channels of the PRT map depending on the light direction.
Only draw back is that you'll have to use 2 textures instead of one compared to normal maps.
Might be better to use it on key assets such as characters or vehicles.
I've started blocking out another pillar :
I'm just using it for texturing to add some subtle shading on the diffuse map.
Finished the highpoly model, will do the low poly and bakes tomorrow :
You try add damages as decals.
Anyway, looks cool!
Mainly because I'm doing this for my portfolio, I need to push the quality further and train myself at making such assets.
I'm saving the tileable textures for much larger structures which will be in the end covered with a multitude of models that will be duplicated and placed differently.
In the end the quality of a uniquely sculpted model will always be better then one made for tiled texturing due to the fact that the ambient occlusion and other shading maps will have correct display.
On the other hand, I hate seams
If I had to apply tessellation on this column, I wouldn't have to worry about seams showing up in the areas where there's a UV cut.
I mostly use the scrap brush to sculpt the damage and chisels on the edges of each block or tile.
The cracks are painted through stencil projection with the basic sculpt brush.
Once all that is done, I then add a high frequency detail pass with a stamp brush to give it a stone like surface.
Finished the low poly model and baked out the textures :
I'll have to create some LODs for this one since the poly-count is quite high for a pillar (2600 tris)
Edit :
Quickly lowered down the poly-count on the column :
With and without comparison :
As for the parallax, at least in those static images it doesn't have a huge impact, perhaps while in motion
Thanks man, and yea looks much better in motion with the reflection/spec. The screenshots doesn't give it much justice
I think that its definitely worth it, might aswell render a heightmap for the previously made assets to push the quality further.
I'll probably add some vines and plants to give it a bit of life.
diffuse :
Cool design nonetheless
In terms of your overall scene - are you planning on giving it some bloom for that Ico/SotC style?
A bit of advice if you don't mind:
Rethink your texturing approach. Stop baking stuff.
Create a set of tiling patterns and map them on your objects.
It's unbelievably faster production-wise, it allows for endless reusability and no one will ever know the difference.
This kind of baking practices would be heavily discouraged in most respectable studios and for right reasons.
Might aswell remake some of the tileable textures since I'm not too fancy off the ones I made.
Sircalalot : I don't think that I'm going to overuse the bloom like in those games. They used it to cover up the draw distance issues and the ugly lods.
I went ahead and scanned some of my sketches and then redrew them up in photoshop.
This stuff is mostly wip :
gonna try out painting the sky in mudbox for my next project like you said a while back,
just wanted to thank you for sharing that!
I'd absolutely love to see a tutorial on setting this up! 3D Coat is awesome.
Also, you said that you made the islands in 3D coat and then brought them back into Mudbox to detail them. Could you explain the process for doing this because I tried it myself and couldn't get it to work. 3D Coat exported tris or models with T planes and mudbox complained every time. When I finally did get it to work by using retopo in 3DCoat, The details didn't show up properly in mudbox.
Not sure if you're still actively checking this thread, but I was wondering if you could shed a little light on the scale of your CE3 map. In your flyovers and screenshots, it looks like you've got a massive map with a huge scale, and I'm just wondering what combination of terrain size/density you use to achieve it.
Sorry for the late reply, I have been busy moving to my new location.
I just got hired a few weeks ago by Guerrilla-games at Amsterdam, and I'm really happy to join the team while working on my first game in the industry!
(PS : Its a freaking awesome studio and city, so if you are an environment artists, don't hesitate to apply!)
Thanks LuCh,
Definitely, mudbox is a good solution for painting your skydoms. Here is one of my last tests which I did a month ago based on a few photographs that I took from my balcony:
[ame="
Its best to use 16bit image formats when doing skydome creation. (use a camera that outputs .raw image for better source images)
@Torque :
Hey man, glad you find the demo useful.
As for the creation of the floating island, what I did was export the voxel mesh as a "dense quads mesh".
Mudbox will complain about "none-manifold" geometry but for you that only means that you can't subdivide the mesh in mudbox to increase the detail if needed.
So, I just went with brute force and increased the resolution in 3dcoat before exporting the mesh to mudbox in order to paint the extra detail.
@Jakelear :
To be honest the playable area isn't that big at all.
Most of the times I use a 2km² terrain which represents lots of space for a one person team when working on an environment. But in order to give the illusion that the level is bigger, I just extended it with some models or sometimes some simple "planes which have a mountain texture applied to them".
You need to keep in mind that a real life mountain covers over 2km², and having one in your level, would be more of an unrealistic goal when it comes down to creating a level with the tech which is currently available to public.
(speaking from a one men's "army" point of view and aiming for a high amount of fidelity (fps or rpg) ).
At some point, its better to keep the mountains as an element of background unless your level is built on it, which will make things more challenging.
As for the updates, tbh, I have none at the moment since I'm focusing at the stuff whats given to me at work haha
I'll post stuff whenever I get something interesting to show
Best regards
Congrats on the job!!! well done. I'm glad for you. If you ever in Rotterdam??? beers on me :-) Cheers, Look forward in more updates. Decorix
And this so makes me wanna do a landscapescene!
I'm looking forward to see more of you process. Keep it up. Great work!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62238920/prob1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62238920/prob2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62238920/prob2M.jpg
As you can see in these images, I'm having problems blending the rocks and the grass, I've setup everything like you do with the desaturated detail textures and using the world position node for the grass, but it's hard to blend the rocks as the terrain colour is always changing, and my grass has strange black outlines? any ideas?
Thanks.
The grass blades are usually always following the curvature of your terrain when painted using the mesh placement tools in UDK or CE3.
So, in order to nicely blend the grass with your terrain you'll need to modify the vertex normals of your grass model to be facing upwards.
This will allow you to get uniform shading between the grass and the terrain.
On the other hand, for grass blade texture, I would suggest to use a highpass filter on the original grass blade texture in photoshop instead of desaturating it.
(in PS : filter --->other---> highpass)
This gives better results when used in conjunction with the Blend_overlay node in UDK.
Try previewing the results of your highpassed texture with the tint map in photoshop before bringing it in UDK.
I noticed that you have some texture scaling issues. You might want to have a consistent texel density all over your environment.
If you could post a screenshot of your tint map and grass blade texture, I might be able to know where the black outlines is coming from.
Best regards,
Amir
Lemme ask you, how would you deal with roads going through some mountains, for example? How would you put together spline-modeled roads and terrain seamlessly, in an engine that doesn't have road tools itself?
Btw, congrats on the gig
Thanks for getting back to me, I'm not sure what you mean by "tint map", I've been bound by a deadline and I'm doing a project solo instead of as a team so I had a lot of work to cover and as a result a lot of it was rushed, I think the main problems with my environment were:
1. Tried to run before I could walk, I went for a max-sized heighmap and didn't really consider landscape "scale" - as a result I had to scale the draw size of the heightmap to try and make it appear more realistic (the scale is still way off)
2. I couldn't get my normal maps to work on the landscape detail textures, I have no idea why they didn't work as I set the layer system up exactly how you did, so my grass looks very flat and boring.
3. I didn't spend enough time on the grass shaders, if I had more time I could tweak them so they look a bit better.
4. Another problem was setting up the "world position" node so that my grass blades pickup the texture of the landscape, unfortunately even though I calculated everything, and even tested the measurements manually - certain areas just didn't match the colour correctly, I'm assuming it has something to do with me scaling the draw scale of the heightmap, I made sure to center it to the grid so it can't be that!
5. A problem with using a terrain colour map from world machine is that you don't have much control over what colour your textures are going to be in terms of the "blend_overlay" node, what I mean is if there is a white patch on the colour map, the grass I paint on top will be white, is there anyway to bypass that without just deciding to not use a colour map in the first place? (your earlier work - shows perfect colour blending of the rocks & grass, I couldn't achieve this blending!)
Basically because I was bound to a deadline I didn't have the time to tweak out all of these problems, I already spent the majority of my workhours trying to fix other problems, I guess it does just come down to manhours with 3d work.
Thanks again for all the tutorials, very inspiring, here's a few screenshots of my work..