You should always ignore "2 years experience" required, its to deter people that have no experience in 3d from applying for the job. If your portfolio is strong, it doesn't matter.
I didn't go to university and feel comfortable with my abilities, but then again I haven't been hired anywhere (but then again I haven't really applied anywhere so I guess I can't be used for the tally).
Learning really is the easy part, I mean you hardly even need to be motivated anymore with all of the great resources and services, and all of the software you'd need is readily available for the random nobody like me. Plop yourself in front of the computer and hit the play button and you can get some of the best, most up-to-date 'lectures' around.
I think it's understandable that people don't hire based on education because at the end of the day it really doesn't matter how you know what you know. What you can do will show if you know what you need to know for the job.
As far as the motivation and self-discipline thing, universities will shepherd you along a path, sure, but is that path industry standard enough to get you a job?
Unfortunately given the way things currently are it's probably not; there isn't a standard and things progress so incredibly fast that having a relevant, standard curriculum would be difficult. The things you learn and make in uni probably won't carry over and preserve well, likely making the oodles of money amount to little more than the diploma paper and time in the academia snuggy.
This is why I didn't go and why I suggest that other people seriously reconsider if what they want to do (and go for) is game art (going for other things is fine if you have the means; other degrees are great for a fallback and such things as 'getting a visa').
Pretty much what I've generally seen is that people who graduate and end up spending about half a year or more getting up to speed and putting together a decent portfolio on their own. At that point it's up to the individual, same as if they hadn't gone to uni, as well as what's available for jobs. Networking in college could certainly be helpful though.
My university was god awful, by the end of it most of the guys who passed still didn't know the very basics, and I mean basic. A few guys didn't even know how to apply a texture
If your portfolio is good, and you're confident you can do the job, then you apply, simple as that. The "2 years" deal is purely to put off people who aren't confident enough in themselves.
Crysis was released in 2007, Crytek UK was bought/founded in 2009, Crytek (the main studio that gave us the Cyrisis games) is based in Germany, the uk studio DID do the multiplayer dev for Crysis 2 though.
I consider my degree to be something that will compliment my portfolio not the other way around. I'm a second year University student and I don't regret a thing. In terms of what I expected to get out of University it has been exactly what I expected, simply, you get out out of it what you put in. The people who aren't truely interested or committed end up with bad grades and bad work, the people who really want it get good grades and decent work since most of it is independent learning.
I don't expect to land a job straight after graduating. I expect to probably bum around for a while working my ass off making a decent portfolio then applying for jobs. Either way, if my degree does turn out to be worthless Uni has been one hell of an awesome life experience, best time of my life!
has anyone here actually played the lego games? they are actually A LOT of fun.... and you can put way more time into them than most AAA games now adays..
I was going to write a huge post about the UK games industry and university but this image sums it up perfectly.
Students who land jobs after graduating are the ones who are proactive outside of university. I've been there, and so have plenty of other people I know / work with. They're the ones with Mod experience, freelance work, and stuff they just did for fun. They don't rely on uni grades and coursework to get them a job. More often than not, I've found that the people interviewing us arty types are veterans who didn't go to college or uni and therefore they just focus on the visuals. They'll look at your art first and foremost and if they consider your art to be good then they'll look at the CV.
has anyone here actually played the lego games? they are actually A LOT of fun.... and you can put way more time into them than most AAA games now adays..
Very true, I actually got the pleasure to work in the developers studio for a week. They're very well made and entertaining games.
has anyone here actually played the lego games? they are actually A LOT of fun.... and you can put way more time into them than most AAA games now adays..
My girlfriend loves them, the indiana and harry potter ones. I can't get into them though, I've played a bit of one, and thats enough for me. I've gotta help her with the jumps though.
As someone who's been in a position of influence regarding employing new people many times i value the capacity to slot into a team above almost any other trait. Its a production line at the end of the day and i don't care how good you are, if you can't show me you're capable of following instructions and showing concern for the poor bugger who's next down the line im not interested. sadly having a degree doesn't prove anything in that regard and really neither does a portfolio full of shiny models done on your own time.
Employing a graduate is high risk, mistakes cost money and inexperienced people generally make more mistakes than experienced people.
Don't let that put you off applying, it just means that a rejection isn't necessarily a reflection of your ability as an artist.
has anyone here actually played the lego games? they are actually A LOT of fun.... and you can put way more time into them than most AAA games now adays..
i love them. it's a direction i'd like to see more games go in (ever play the coop lara croft game?), and i think it's unfair to class them as not AAA, AAA is almost a buzzword for "brown shooter" these days.
Correct me if I wrong, but $100k might be true for the US. I've always been under the impression that higher education is pretty expenisve there.
That said, my degree will cost me about £10k here in the UK. I guess I'm pretty lucky, since I enrolled before they raised the fees to £9k per year.
Here in the united states we get completely ripped off. I go to a public school in California and just in tuition I pay around $14k a year. That does not include housing, books, food, etc. And that is relevantly cheap. Tuition has gone up about 60% since I started school 3 years ago too. Places like the art institute are 25k a year. Its crazy. If you ask me, they're an elaborate corporate scam to funnel as many Government Pell grants and guaranteed loans out of students as they can and leave the students with the bill.
British university fees have jumped for students starting September 2012 from the $5000 per annum that I'm paying to $15,000 per annum. So apparently more students are starting to look at studying in America now that the prices are getting closer.
but compared to national students in UK, International students pay more given the fact that no funding body supports them and foreign students mostly are self funded. dont bring getting the visa issue here thats a whole different topic. Neways what the national students can do is open up accounts in South Asian banks, pounds converted to other currencies= more bling than when it comes to going to uni you just pay unis one off £10k without no interest or loan tension that will chase u till your old age. Hope you get the picture
maybe if less people did pointless degress that got them jobs ding something other than "events management" or estate agency positions then it'd be worth the tax payer handing over money for dickheads to doss away 5 years with partying and drug abuse.
maybe if less people did pointless degress that got them jobs ding something other than "events management" or estate agency positions then it'd be worth the tax payer handing over money for dickheads to doss away 5 years with partying and drug abuse.
You're making generalised statements about both students and tax payers here.
You're also implying certain career options are less worthwhile than others? Which is ironic because I've met plenty of folk who think anything to do with games, playing or making, is worthless.
You're making generalised statements about both students and tax payers here.
You're also implying certain career options are less worthwhile than others? Which is ironic because I've met plenty of folk who think anything to do with games, playing or making, is worthless.
Well if you look at skilled workers from overseas over here you will see that the UK has not been self sufficient for quite a long time. That does raise questions about why its the way it is. Healthcare alone the NHS in the UK has vast armies of workers from outside the UK.
In terms of the UK being self-sufficient via its "own" population? Yeah not for a long time. Which is why people going off to uni to do events management isn't the cause of any shortcomings the UK faces.
It is the cause and I say that because the government isnt promoting or providing incentives for people to work in those industries that import labour. And really its in the best interests of the government to do this because there is a trend amongst foreign workers to save and send their earning overseas. If those jobs were populated by locals that disposable income is saved and spent within the UK economy and that is of utmost importance.
I'll have a computer sciences degree in 18 month's, the courses 3D unit is a joke, so is the multimedia unit. I have taught more than the teacher has, literally walked around person to person telling them the basic tools and functions in 3ds max since he doesn't actually know. He has taught "theoretical modelling" for 9 years and it can be applied to any program, but he still doesn't know how to use max. Bad times when you paying £3500 towards his pay slip. The other three units web dev, databases, Obj oriented C++, are pretty good and worth most of the grade so not too bad.
PC Uni helped ton's
Bitch over~
So 18 months to get my portfolio in together then?
i left the uk because the work is shit and there were better opportunities abroad. imagine if i had gone to university and cost the tax pying public thousands of pounds, only to leave straight away and start paying taxes to somewhere else.
i'm not suggesting that there is less value in being a doctor or a nurse or a teacher than there is being an estate agent or an events coordinator.. oh wait back the fuck up yes i am. unless you dreamt about managing events since your first birthday party, looking over the table at a collection of poorly arranged paper plates and unevenly melted candles, knives and forks placed incorrectly, a clown performing an act whereby he apparently makes aborted balloon animals for children who are neither interested or conscious.. the disgust showing in your face as you blow out candles on a cake that doesn't even have your age written on it in marzipan, imaginary knives fly from your eyes and penetrate your mother for her callousness in birthing this stillborn fetus of a birthday party. on that day, you knew that you would grow up and become... EVENTS MANAGEMENT MAN!
fuck that. video games took me out of the ghetto and a life of crime and drugs lol. only people called Esther and Reginald manage events and they can go fuck themselves.
fuck that. video games took me out of the ghetto and a life of crime and drugs lol. only people called Esther and Reginald manage events and they can go fuck themselves.
My friend, who just recently got into the industry, spent a year doing his masters and building up his portfolio. Worked quite well for him.
this is the important part. the only reason to get a degree is to make it easier to go to the USA for work. and the number that actually manage it are about the same as those who just have a good portfolio and make a name for themselves.
Replies
Learning really is the easy part, I mean you hardly even need to be motivated anymore with all of the great resources and services, and all of the software you'd need is readily available for the random nobody like me. Plop yourself in front of the computer and hit the play button and you can get some of the best, most up-to-date 'lectures' around.
I think it's understandable that people don't hire based on education because at the end of the day it really doesn't matter how you know what you know. What you can do will show if you know what you need to know for the job.
As far as the motivation and self-discipline thing, universities will shepherd you along a path, sure, but is that path industry standard enough to get you a job?
Unfortunately given the way things currently are it's probably not; there isn't a standard and things progress so incredibly fast that having a relevant, standard curriculum would be difficult. The things you learn and make in uni probably won't carry over and preserve well, likely making the oodles of money amount to little more than the diploma paper and time in the academia snuggy.
This is why I didn't go and why I suggest that other people seriously reconsider if what they want to do (and go for) is game art (going for other things is fine if you have the means; other degrees are great for a fallback and such things as 'getting a visa').
Pretty much what I've generally seen is that people who graduate and end up spending about half a year or more getting up to speed and putting together a decent portfolio on their own. At that point it's up to the individual, same as if they hadn't gone to uni, as well as what's available for jobs. Networking in college could certainly be helpful though.
This is put on there to discourage these kind of guys:
If your portfolio is good, and you're confident you can do the job, then you apply, simple as that. The "2 years" deal is purely to put off people who aren't confident enough in themselves.
wipe up your tears, clean your bum bum, and apply.
also uk game industry is shit. enjoy making lego games or racing games.
Or Batman or GTA.
~ or Devil May Cry, or Brink
Or Fable 1-3
Or The Total War series.
Crysis was released in 2007, Crytek UK was bought/founded in 2009, Crytek (the main studio that gave us the Cyrisis games) is based in Germany, the uk studio DID do the multiplayer dev for Crysis 2 though.
Originally Posted by Rick_D
also uk game industry is shit. enjoy making lego games or racing games.
~ Meh. I like to think it was probably exciting to work on. More exciting than lego games.
I don't expect to land a job straight after graduating. I expect to probably bum around for a while working my ass off making a decent portfolio then applying for jobs. Either way, if my degree does turn out to be worthless Uni has been one hell of an awesome life experience, best time of my life!
Or This!
I was going to write a huge post about the UK games industry and university but this image sums it up perfectly.
Students who land jobs after graduating are the ones who are proactive outside of university. I've been there, and so have plenty of other people I know / work with. They're the ones with Mod experience, freelance work, and stuff they just did for fun. They don't rely on uni grades and coursework to get them a job. More often than not, I've found that the people interviewing us arty types are veterans who didn't go to college or uni and therefore they just focus on the visuals. They'll look at your art first and foremost and if they consider your art to be good then they'll look at the CV.
Very true, I actually got the pleasure to work in the developers studio for a week. They're very well made and entertaining games.
My girlfriend loves them, the indiana and harry potter ones. I can't get into them though, I've played a bit of one, and thats enough for me. I've gotta help her with the jumps though.
If the publishers would get their shit together I'd be flying over to make a lego racing game. Seriously, that game was fantastic.
Also, I take it you guys are trolling when you're saying $100k for a degree. I just finished and I think it ended up at $25k (at most).
Correct me if I wrong, but $100k might be true for the US. I've always been under the impression that higher education is pretty expenisve there.
That said, my degree will cost me about £10k here in the UK. I guess I'm pretty lucky, since I enrolled before they raised the fees to £9k per year.
you have youth on your side though
As someone who's been in a position of influence regarding employing new people many times i value the capacity to slot into a team above almost any other trait. Its a production line at the end of the day and i don't care how good you are, if you can't show me you're capable of following instructions and showing concern for the poor bugger who's next down the line im not interested. sadly having a degree doesn't prove anything in that regard and really neither does a portfolio full of shiny models done on your own time.
Employing a graduate is high risk, mistakes cost money and inexperienced people generally make more mistakes than experienced people.
Don't let that put you off applying, it just means that a rejection isn't necessarily a reflection of your ability as an artist.
i love them. it's a direction i'd like to see more games go in (ever play the coop lara croft game?), and i think it's unfair to class them as not AAA, AAA is almost a buzzword for "brown shooter" these days.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-stupidest-video-game-school-commercials/
This really does seem the normal mentality with people at my school.
[ame="
Here in the united states we get completely ripped off. I go to a public school in California and just in tuition I pay around $14k a year. That does not include housing, books, food, etc. And that is relevantly cheap. Tuition has gone up about 60% since I started school 3 years ago too. Places like the art institute are 25k a year. Its crazy. If you ask me, they're an elaborate corporate scam to funnel as many Government Pell grants and guaranteed loans out of students as they can and leave the students with the bill.
Poor guys
You're making generalised statements about both students and tax payers here.
You're also implying certain career options are less worthwhile than others? Which is ironic because I've met plenty of folk who think anything to do with games, playing or making, is worthless.
Well if you look at skilled workers from overseas over here you will see that the UK has not been self sufficient for quite a long time. That does raise questions about why its the way it is. Healthcare alone the NHS in the UK has vast armies of workers from outside the UK.
I'll have a computer sciences degree in 18 month's, the courses 3D unit is a joke, so is the multimedia unit. I have taught more than the teacher has, literally walked around person to person telling them the basic tools and functions in 3ds max since he doesn't actually know. He has taught "theoretical modelling" for 9 years and it can be applied to any program, but he still doesn't know how to use max. Bad times when you paying £3500 towards his pay slip. The other three units web dev, databases, Obj oriented C++, are pretty good and worth most of the grade so not too bad.
PC Uni helped ton's
Bitch over~
So 18 months to get my portfolio in together then?
Also while this is up. Masters, Worth it or not?
i left the uk because the work is shit and there were better opportunities abroad. imagine if i had gone to university and cost the tax pying public thousands of pounds, only to leave straight away and start paying taxes to somewhere else.
i'm not suggesting that there is less value in being a doctor or a nurse or a teacher than there is being an estate agent or an events coordinator.. oh wait back the fuck up yes i am. unless you dreamt about managing events since your first birthday party, looking over the table at a collection of poorly arranged paper plates and unevenly melted candles, knives and forks placed incorrectly, a clown performing an act whereby he apparently makes aborted balloon animals for children who are neither interested or conscious.. the disgust showing in your face as you blow out candles on a cake that doesn't even have your age written on it in marzipan, imaginary knives fly from your eyes and penetrate your mother for her callousness in birthing this stillborn fetus of a birthday party. on that day, you knew that you would grow up and become... EVENTS MANAGEMENT MAN!
fuck that. video games took me out of the ghetto and a life of crime and drugs lol. only people called Esther and Reginald manage events and they can go fuck themselves.
bwaahahahah
haha, high five
I'm certainly not doing one. A year spent doing up my portfolio will be far more valuable in my opinion.
this is the important part. the only reason to get a degree is to make it easier to go to the USA for work. and the number that actually manage it are about the same as those who just have a good portfolio and make a name for themselves.