Working with symmetry on non-symmetrical mesh - 3DSMax?

FAT_CAP

I was wondering if anybody knew of a way, inside 3DS Max, to duplicate the changes I make from one side of the model, on a mesh which isn't totally symmetrical? I have some low poly characters which I would like to tweak slightly, and it would be great to have the changes I make on one side propogate to the other. Because of the way they are setup, it isn't as easy as just deleting half of the model and mirroring or using the symmetry modifier - the workflow must be as non destructive as possible.

Im looking for something like ZBrush's symmtery which works even if the each half of the mesh isn't totally identical - aslong as the parts you want the symmtery to work on are mirrored.

I tried the Graphite Symmetry tools but had no look and just get skewed results - maybe becuase of the lack of ttoal symmetry in the object?

leechdemon

Whenever I have a somewhat-symmetrical mesh, I either make my non-symmetrical changes at the end (convert to poly, edit on the half I want), or I keep two sets of meshes going; symmetrical parts and non-symmetrical parts. Another thing you could try would be instancing small parts and transforming them locally wherever you want them.

I've done all those methods, but with mechanical models where the model is 95% symmetrical, and there's a handle or something on one side but not the other. Character stuff can be more complicated... how non-symmetrical are we talking? Pics?

FAT_CAP

Thanks for the quick reply Leechdemon.

I cant post pictures unfortunately, but the non symmetrical areas are fairly minor (hairstyles, addons such as jewellery etc).

The reason I dont want to have to delete half the model and use symmetry/ mirror, or have multiple instancfes of the object is the characters are already modelled, UVd and rigged, and I just want to make changes to polish areas without destroying the skinning information, or having to deal with Skin Wrap or baking skin weights into parts of the model etc.

Basically - Im hoping to keep it as simple as possible, which is why having ZBrush's symmetry inside Max would be great (I know I could export into ZBrush and make the changes there, but the characters are pretty low poly, so the ability to nudge verts by hand is pretty important).

leechdemon

I think you can use Replace (under Import) to swap out objects with same-named objects of another file. I know Replace respects hierarchy, but not sure about rigging. There's a good chance, though, it works very well for mechanically rigged models. Basically, you'd save a copy of the file, do what you've got to do however you want to do it, then save it out. Then back in the original, Replace, selecting just that object. If it works correctly, it'll swap out the geometry and modifiers, but keep it's place in the heirarchy, everything that's referenced, etc.

Also, if it's something you can fix via textures, that'll sidestep the entire issue, most likely. Bake a new piece onto the map or something, I mean.

Mark Dygert

Transmographier has a "asymmetry" feature. Basically you make your model symmetrical to start with then you can create a copy that is asymmetrical and plug that in to deform the model. The result is a model you can push and pull pieces around as if was symmetrical but its pieces aren't in the exact opposite place.

You can have one hand above the head and one on the ground and whatever you do to one finger it does to the other side. It's a great little tool but it does require that the mesh be mathematically symetrcial to start with and needs to stay that way, so you couldn't add/remove geometry but you could push it around.

In theory it should work just fine with skin. It also wouldn't be hard to bake out the weights and load them back onto the model if you're just pushing and pulling verts round and not adding/removing geometry.

FAT_CAP

Hmm - that Transmogriphier sounds like a great tool Vig. Checking through some of these characters some don't even have a full symmetry line down the middle (presumably to save on a few polys), so anything that needs a symmetry, or mirror like setup could be too much work at this stage. I'll look into it though and see if I can get it working.