Fear of being too customized

jeremiah_bigley

So I have officially run out of hotkey space on the left side of my keyboard for 3ds max... and what I did was create a simple script that toggles between the different transform tools and set it to spacebar (like in UDK). I guess I know the answer to the question "Is there are point where your setup is too customized?," but I can't help feeling a bit hesitant to getting rid of the default QWER shortcuts for the transform tools.

I do a lot of helping other people and demos and I sort of fear becoming one of those guys who is "nothing without my scripts."

Thoughts anyone? How many of you have changed your setup to something completely whack?

.morph3us

heh, i didnt do as much as you, but my workmates get insane when they try to do something on my max :P

but isnt it all about how you feel about it?
u are the one working 90% of the time on that specific max

i know it makes me a lot more productive...

i even changed all of my mouse buttons to loop/ring an such, a lot more conveniant than clicking buttons all the time.

on the other hand... if those scripts get broken by an update or whatever it throws u back a lot >.<

[HP]

I think you're just overthinking it dude, what matters is the final outcome, the result of your work, the final art piece.

Whatever you can do to become better and quicker at it, just do it.

pior

Think of it this way :

The guys who are "nothing without their scripts" are a minority amongst game artists. But they are the majority amongst the badass game artists.

Problem solved!

Bal

Yeah my Maya is pretty messed up, lots of stuff moved over from my Max days, and many of the keys not doing what they did originally.
I don't think there's any problem with this, being comfortable with your tools is important.
The only trouble I come across is when someone has to do something on my machine, they are completely lost (fortunately 3dsmax has a toggle-default-shortcuts button, wish Maya had something equivalent for those cases).
Doesn't help that my keyboard is setup as a qwerty when visually it's an azerty, heh.

jeremiah_bigley

Awesome! Glad I am not the only one then. I have been having a hard time finding a combination of hotkeys that feels "right." I am running out of space and options and QWER defaults were taking up so much real-estate on my keyboard. Been thinking about changing them for a while now. Guess I am going to go with it.

Zephiris

Running out of hotkeys? Get a logitech g510( http://www.gamingnexus.com/Images/Article/dezngf2743/2.jpg ), that's 18 bonus keys and you can switch between 3 sets of macros for them! There's also seperated additional keypads with macro-able keys, or the Razer Naga mouse with 12 side buttons if you prefer that.

There's no such thing as too much customization as long as it helps you to be faster ... So if you run out of free keys just get more

And yeah if you're at a studio people might rage at you if they try to do anything at your comp, but it should be you using your comp 99% of the time and not them, so... enjoy your hotkeys (and the helpless looks on your co workers face as they try using your comp )

almighty_gir

i was thinking about getting one of these, just to have all my keybinds by my mouse hand.


my only worry would be the lack of motion in the mouse.

Mark Dygert

I like how pior put it. I'll add that you aren't nothing without your scripts you're just severally slowed down and handicapped by the default system. Most of the people who customize heavily, if forced to could complete jobs to the same final result they normally do but just slower.

I liken it to switching 3D apps, what makes the artist valuable isn't tied up in the app UI and how its arranged.

passerby

maybe you should look into scripting things a bit, and assigning multiple similar tools to one key, and use the context of what your doing such as subcomponent selection type or what kinda selections you already got made, and modifier keys to access all the different tools on 1 key.

and if your were a maya or modo user i would just recommend setting up marking menus on keys.

AlecMoody

Zephiris wrote: »

Running out of hotkeys? Get a logitech g510( http://www.gamingnexus.com/Images/Article/dezngf2743/2.jpg ), that's 18 bonus keys and you can switch between 3 sets of macros for them! There's also seperated additional keypads with macro-able keys, or the Razer Naga mouse with 12 side buttons if you prefer that.

There's no such thing as too much customization as long as it helps you to be faster ... So if you run out of free keys just get more

And yeah if you're at a studio people might rage at you if they try to do anything at your comp, but it should be you using your comp 99% of the time and not them, so... enjoy your hotkeys (and the helpless looks on your co workers face as they try using your comp )

Alternatively- I have a cherry point of sale keyboard from the 90s that has keys you can hardware macro.

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/POS/8200/index.htm

You can get them for nothing on ebay.

Vailias

Alec: No such thing as too much customization. Its all about accelerating your own workflow.

I do actually have one of those multimacro game pads for just this purpose. I haven't actually used it as much as I thought I would, though thats been more a workspace issue than a control surface issue.


And yeah.. my keyboard layout looks very little like the original max layout, especially with 2012's graphite tools.

Kwramm

jeremiah_bigley wrote: »

"Is there are point where your setup is too customized?"

Yeah - when we TA's come in, trying to help you, and can't find our way around at all!

on a serious note, I think scripts are fine. It becomes annoying when people switch around all sorts of keys and totally turn an apps layout inside out. This can get quite annoying.

Ace-Angel

I would say Free Scripts which don't need complicated setups are just dandy? No money spent, and you make them ladies wet!

Crispy4004

jeremiah_bigley wrote: »

I can't help feeling a bit hesitant to getting rid of the default QWER shortcuts for the transform tools.

You should be, you are swapping the ideal configuration for other shortcuts. That is a compromise. There is realistically only so much you can map to keyboard shortcuts, and usually you are loosing something in return. Lets not forget the pain involved with swamping computers or when someone else uses your machine.

I like to stick to the defaults as much as possible, but when I need a whole lot more easy access functionality, I set up a Custom Markup Menu in Maya. 9 different functions is a favorable tradeoff for a single key. Usualy mixed with the standard marking menus and some of the more hidden ones, I can access my common tools. It might not be as quick as a hokey for everything, but I also don't have to play hopscotch on the keyboard and customize hotkeys beyond recognition. I highly recommend seeing if someone has scripted the equivalent in Max.

Buying a macro keyboard is a pretty ridiculous fix. There has to be a better way out there for MAX.

jeremiah_bigley wrote: »

I do a lot of helping other people and demos and I sort of fear becoming one of those guys who is "nothing without my scripts."

Scripts are a whole different story from hotkeys. You could pound a nail into the wall with your fist or pick up a hammer. No reasonable person would judge you for using a tool to make the job easier.

Fingus

I have pretty much everything mapped to custom marking menus in Maya. With sub menus, left/middle/right mouse click, and modifiers (shift, ctrl, alt) you can map pretty much every function you need to only a few hotkeys. I have all my modeling tools on A, all my primitives on tilde (~), all my edit commands (like delete history, freeze transform, etc) on S, and all my windows and menus on F. Everything else I've left unchanged. With this setup I can access pretty much everything I commonly use with some quick sweeps. It has sped me up immensely. I'm starting to feel that if I use more than two or three mouse clicks for anything I'm wasting time.

I'm also always ripping the interface in zBrush apart and putting it together to fit my needs. I have the Enable Customize button directly accessible in the interface so whenever I notice I'm using a function a lot I just activate it and drag the slider or button into the interface. Despite all the weirdness with UI in zBrush I'm loving that specific feature.

This is what my zBrush looks like at the moment. It's getting pretty cluttered so I'm going to look into the possibility of having multiple setups for sculpting, painting, sketching, etc.

SSquir33

i use a sidewinder x6 keyboard from microsoft, has 6x3 macro buttons placed on the left side on the keyboard. and it stores macro banks for each program u load up.

no more ctrl+ , alt+ , shift+ , its just one button and away u go. its pretty dope.

jeremiah_bigley

There are a lot of interesting points on this subject! I have been telling myself forever now... Once I get some free time I am going to learn how to make scripts. I looked into the context sensitive hotkeys and it sounds truly amazing, but a bit over my head scripting-wise atm.

I can't help but disagreeing a bit on the idea that you should stick as closely to the defaults as you can. The defaults are not made specifically for a modeler so you get some crazy reaching and awkward hand-shapes going on to make use of the defaults.

I ended up getting rid of the transform keys and mapping over them... and I think once I rework my muscle memory to a certain degree I will be almost double the speed I was with the last setup. And they just feel "right" now. With my previous setup there were a number of keys that just felt wrong. Moving some things to quads was helpful as well.

Really appreciate the feeback guys!

Crispy4004

Fingus wrote: »

I have pretty much everything mapped to custom marking menus in Maya. With sub menus, left/middle/right mouse click, and modifiers (shift, ctrl, alt) you can map pretty much every function you need to only a few hotkeys. I have all my modeling tools on A, all my primitives on tilde (~), all my edit commands (like delete history, freeze transform, etc) on S, and all my windows and menus on F. Everything else I've left unchanged. With this setup I can access pretty much everything I commonly use with some quick sweeps.

The real beauty of it is you get tenfold the functionality for a fraction of the key memorization. Not to mention chances are a typical Maya user can still pick it up without noticing something is different.

jeremiah_bigley wrote: »

I can't help but disagreeing a bit on the idea that you should stick as closely to the defaults as you can. The defaults are not made specifically for a modeler so you get some crazy reaching and awkward hand-shapes going on to make use of the defaults.

Max is unfortunately a different story for the exact reasons you mentioned. Changing the hotkeys is one of the first things you should do to increase productivity in the app. Maya's defaults are far more bearable because most of the major actions can be accessed with a combination of 3 keys (Ctrl, Shift, Alt) thanks to the marking menus. From the looks of it though, several people have toyed with the idea of a radial menu in Max:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0xGCZLI5-w&quot;]RadMax[/ame]
Unfortunately this one seems to be canceled because he was trying to make it a complete alternative to the ribbon menu, which simply was not possible to maintain as it kept growing. What would be more reasonable is a way for users to instead define their own layout, while keeping the context nature of the graphite ribbon bar. I have the feeling some tech artist out there could make a lot of artists very happy who feel like they are running out of hotkeys.

I'm sure many Max users out there would be opposed to the idea, simply based on the principle that it is a Maya thing. But consider for a minute all the other applications that are have adopted it as well, like Mudbox:

Even games have caught on:

It's in there because there it works as an efferent way to stop the need for over customization to be productive. Also mouse/pen gestures are easier to memorize than jumping to the outer limits of your keyboard.