Im having problems with the art scene
polycounter lvl 11
It seems lately I just can't get motivated, and its tearing me apart. Im scared to start anything because Im afraid ill give up too soon and fail, and when I fail it can be weeks before I can get back up. I really want to be character artist, but everyone talks about it being a hard gig to land and that is really not helping, but its a good heads up. Id love to try my hand at environments, but everytime I do I think of kismet and I back up (that and UDK crashing everytime it has to think a little) and im terrified of trying to make trees.
Basically this is my mindset:
-That guy in that armor looks cool, im obsessed with him! I wont be satisfied till I conquer him!
-But hmm, should the armor be flat, or extruded edges for depth, do I crease the fabric or put supporting edges, Is the belt made in zbrush or a separate model, ??? ??? ??? ??? (overwhelmed)
-Deep breath, ill just model out the armor basemesh. Ok done. Should I leave it all one model, should I seperate them and import them all in zbrush, should I focus on one at a time, what do I even detail on the armor in zbrush???? ??? ??? ISNT IT JUST FLAT METAL, where does the symmetry line go
:S :S
-By now I have a pretty basic armor dude that textures could make it look pretty good but im already frustrated
-When Im frustrated I get tired, I go to bed, the following days I slowly forget about it and im too depressed to think about art so I just play games
What I've noticed is I have a very hard time handling large scale projects, hell, even guns id be annoyed and bored by the amount of shapes I may have to do. When drawing I hardly finish anything, so I end up drawing parts of stuff. This makes me LOVE sculpting busts and the human body, but getting into details and layered clothing make me back away. I seem to not pace myself in instances where things should be modeled separately and then placed on the character, I try to blow through it because I want to see how awesome it will look finished.
Im always looking for simple characters to do so I can build up (kind of like from an m911 to an m4) but I can never find anything simple, and im stuck trying to recreate characters from AAA titles that are pretty complex.
I personally (being in my last year of HS) think college would help for the discipline and challenge, but if being a character artist is that hard to land then why bother with the debt?
I just overthink things and im wondering if anyones been in the same spot =\
Basically this is my mindset:
-That guy in that armor looks cool, im obsessed with him! I wont be satisfied till I conquer him!
-But hmm, should the armor be flat, or extruded edges for depth, do I crease the fabric or put supporting edges, Is the belt made in zbrush or a separate model, ??? ??? ??? ??? (overwhelmed)
-Deep breath, ill just model out the armor basemesh. Ok done. Should I leave it all one model, should I seperate them and import them all in zbrush, should I focus on one at a time, what do I even detail on the armor in zbrush???? ??? ??? ISNT IT JUST FLAT METAL, where does the symmetry line go
:S :S-By now I have a pretty basic armor dude that textures could make it look pretty good but im already frustrated
-When Im frustrated I get tired, I go to bed, the following days I slowly forget about it and im too depressed to think about art so I just play games
What I've noticed is I have a very hard time handling large scale projects, hell, even guns id be annoyed and bored by the amount of shapes I may have to do. When drawing I hardly finish anything, so I end up drawing parts of stuff. This makes me LOVE sculpting busts and the human body, but getting into details and layered clothing make me back away. I seem to not pace myself in instances where things should be modeled separately and then placed on the character, I try to blow through it because I want to see how awesome it will look finished.
Im always looking for simple characters to do so I can build up (kind of like from an m911 to an m4) but I can never find anything simple, and im stuck trying to recreate characters from AAA titles that are pretty complex.
I personally (being in my last year of HS) think college would help for the discipline and challenge, but if being a character artist is that hard to land then why bother with the debt?
I just overthink things and im wondering if anyones been in the same spot =\
Replies
and i looked at your current work.
now my recommendation to you is forget everything else and work on your knowledge of human anatomy. your current work samples don't show strong handle on human anatomy.
there are tons of threads about anatomy and links to many useful site. do the research and get on it. it will take time and there are no shortcuts.
Sounds like you're starting way too big. I've always felt like a character artist, but I spent the first four years of my career doing props and environments. It's easier to land a job and the assets are generally much simpler. This isn't the only way to do it, or even the "best", but it worked for me.
There's so much to worry about with a character, it really helps to already know how to do the pieces before attempting the whole. As a prop artist, you'll do metal objects, wood stuff, plants and small alien critters. You get to tackle the various types of materials and shapes one at a time, and you get to really focus on them. I found it was a lot easier to understand one element at a time than to try and do them all at once.
After doing this for a while, when you tackle that space marine again, you already know exactly how to make the right kind of metal for his armor, the cloth for the joints, and how to add wear and tear, dirt, etc. Of course, there's still those fun design issues, anatomy, organic texturing, etc... but not having to worry about the basics is huge.
That's one way about it... don't stop making characters either though. Like MM says, study plenty of anatomy and character related stuff too.
Hope that makes sense and helps. My brother's training to be a bartender right now and I've been his test subject all night.
Well I have my own 7 page long anatomy thread :P
I started with
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2585/anarh.png
And after a few months im at
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2769/sofarc.png
That was really helpful ferg, but would I have time to improve my character art skills? And Im guessing prop artists are in high demand just like environment artists? I never thought of prop art. I always thought it was hard surface, character, and environment.
It's great to get caught up in the details but a bit of pressure sometimes helps you focus on what's important.
Does anyone have a good resource for character concepts? I've been all over google and they're usually really complex and not good for practice.
I think what ill do is just start sculpting one bust a day to keep me in an arty mood until inspiration for a full character comes along.
Why is he wearing the armor? What is the armor for? Is he a marine? A general? Shuttle tech guy? Will he battle in the desert or jungle? Damaged veteran armor or clean rookie? Acrobatic or solid?
Make up a story about the character. It doesn's have to be long or detailed, just something that you can start from and have as goal.
"Im gong to make a middle aged man who is a recon in the space army. He loves everything about the core and especially his squad mates. He has 5 stars and is specialist on explosives."
vs
"Im gong to make cool armor."
also, everytime you do something, ask yourself "why did i do this?"
good luck!
About the props part, its a cool idea...I've actually got a thread asking questions about it here:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87508
Only thing I can say is keep working on anatomy and study study study man, never give up. I'm sure if you look at your work a year ago it isn't anywhere near the level you are now. Keep pushing yourself, take on new challenges and something will come up! Good luck bro
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/044/2/9/lich_king_helmet_by_frell262-d39haee.jpg
@dustin, yea I like venting it out :P
@Torch I thought it would be fun! But its so much planning its like writing a story, if you go straight for it, you get a sloppy result, but if you brainstorm and plan you get a well written story.
And i'd still love for a big stash of character concepts :P
Could anyone here post their workflows about approaching complex characters?
These are the kind I can't approach without almost bursting into tears out of frustration: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1404592#post1404592
It can be daunting to start a large project. I think you really just need to knuckle down, believe in yourself, concentrate on a particular set of models (probably props in your case)and really try to nail them. Collect some beautiful and original concepts of weapons or something and try to do them justice. Some of your stuff is pretty darn good, but your portfolio seems a bit unfocused (although I understand a collection of things you've made on DA isn't a portfolio for applying for jobs). Give it all a bit more time and you will feel loads better.
One of the most important thing that we can do as artists is develop a personal aesthetic, or ability to select things based on our understanding of our own, and others feelings on a subject.
This empowers us to confidently choose symbols that we can throw down quickly to draw out the overall vision we have for something.
You may not know it but you have been learning both how to say things, and your own personal vision for what you want to create, and those are the foundation on which all great artists are built.
In other words:
It's been posted here before, but I really love this guys entire blog, and this particular article:
http://www.austinkleon.com/2011/03/30/how-to-steal-like-an-artist-and-9-other-things-nobody-told-me/
Also, consider who this is for, if its mostly for yourself, then you will need to know yourself very well, if its mostly for others (your portfolio, polycount, game studios) then you will need to know them very well. Odds are its a little of both. Researching both these things can really help motivate and focus your efforts.
Hope that helps, your not alone, just keep at it.
All that crap you're talking about is the same crap we ALL went through. We powered through it, and got better at it. And then we went through MORE crap, and powered through that. And then struggled with NEWER things, and powered through that too.
In fact, we simply got better at powering through shit like that all the time. I'm not sure if you realize, but being a character artist isn't simply a goal you achieve then you can rest on your laurels. You gotta keep making models, learning new tools, learning new workflows, and still have the energy to go home and make some more art, learn new tools, play different games, learn other software packages, and continually adapt.
Sorry to say this, but If you're struggling now then there's likely little hope for you later. Other people will simply want it more than you. You'll simply be lumped in the same category as everyone that kinda wanted to be a character artist but didn't want it enough.
Ok im motivated thanks guys!
Ill assume WIP threads can help me with my process, so ill start making those when I have something thats actually coming along.
'The idea is always better than the execution' - but don't beat yourself up over that fact, it forms our learning process.
'Only compare your work to your last piece of work' - If it's better, you're improving, if it's worse, you learned something.
'The only way out is through' - I think that was Winston Churchill... or Alanis Morissette. I'm pretty sure it was Churchill.
Oh, and listen to this: http://www.5by5.tv/b2w
That's a little bit harsh. Its not like he wrote a really whiney post about how he can't do it, he's obviously been trying and wants to be a character artist. Everybody has periods of self doubt - all of us, where you just want to scream and cry out of frustration because you haven't hit that point or level where you want to be (and I don't even know if you can, part of being an artist is the eternal quest for self improvement, right?)
Its ok to ask people's advice or opinions on how to progress when you feel you've lost your direction. I know I have and it helped a lot to get some encouraging words. You self reflect, and go back to your work with a new vigour, thinking... "Lets do this!"
I can usually handle minor folds and stuff on shirts, but the big triangular/planar folds of jeans are extremely confusing, any tips? Cloth is a whole new area of study, but im having problems getting results in zbrush, as it barely looks like a fold.
As to the actual thread, I want to be a character artist the most out of the weapons/environment/character category, and its not like theres anything left for me to take interest in. I find guns boring to model, Environments are too big for me to stay focused, and characters seem to have alot of technical obstacles more traditionally based rather than the puzzle like obstacles of hard surface. The only other possible thing I could think of is being a concept artist, but theres shittons of those everywhere and chances of landing that are probably none.
gl
[ame]
[ame]
http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/zbrush/quick-cloth/quick-cloth.html
http://vimeo.com/2792643
http://vimeo.com/8866839
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Wrinkles-Drapery-Solutions-Practical/dp/0823015874[/ame]
also, general good collection:
http://cg.tutsplus.com/articles/web-roundups/tutorial-roundup-82-earth-shattering-zbrush-tutorials/
i hope these help.
cloth fold are not magical shapes.
take a piece of cloth in your hand and move it around and see how it folds.
get in front of a mirror and look at your pant fold, sit up, walk etc and see how the folds react.
you dont need any special brushes or tools to sculpt realistic cloth folds.
http://conceptartworld.com/
And tell me some of the weapons and objects (props) don't inspire you to make them in 3D?
Maybe I was being too harsh. Maybe I'm not.
Truth is I know at least 30 people who are in the same boat, and are all looking for some magical way of becoming good enough to land a job.
I've even volunteered my time to give them free lessons, teach them basic principals, and really work through and iron out their 'project' for a few of them.
As soon as I see problems in their workflow (usually as early as reference searching) I point out some flaws, then they give up. Or i point out flaws in their concept n they give up, or ignore what i said and march forward before giving up.
Truth is Frell I'm hoping to maybe light a fire under your ass. But I'm already seeing that you're frustrated and giving up on properly learning to do folds. Mashru freakin mishu just linked you to some GOLD! dudes the uber master of cloth sculpting.
Before opening zbrush go find the EXACT clothing references you're hoping to sculpt. Find like at least 50 images. Study the material properties. And things like density weight etc. Compare how that kind of cloth deforms in comparison to cloth of other materials n density. Look at the comonalities between how the clothing folds depending on the pose from image to image. Find a bunch of other zbrush clothing sculpt references. Look at the differences between tight n loose, and determine what you want achieve.
After you have a very very solid understanding of what you're striving for... THEN you open Zbrush.
I get what you're saying, be the cloth. Im going to try again soon, but instead of doing those tons of fold jeans like street cop which im not ready for, ill use jeans that have the folds in the usual spots, above the shoes, behind the knees, waist etc.
Face is a placeholder but im only focusing on the pants right now
Don't use symmetry for actual portfolio designs, if this is to learn then It's okay, but if you intend this on being in your portfolio focusing on asymmetry appeals more to the viewer, it is a little more work but it looks better.
Good luck, fight the good fight.
Im working on it now so crit away