Added hands, they're rigged but I haven't made the crossbows yet so I made a cheesy hand pose in the meantime
I'm working on the face right now. I haven't gotten far, I'm mostly studying the topology. Are there any female faces that any of you think may seem appropriate?
There are some things left to do within the modeling realm after that: satchels, crossbows, proper hood, scarf and perhaps a cloak.
I've been working on the head lately as I think I've mentioned previously.
It is more difficult than I anticipated but I think the results are getting better than they were in the update I was about to post before *phew, good thing I didn't*.
In any case, I'm sure there are things wrong here which I need to fix (and obviously she needs ears and the back of her head!) so let the critiques begin!!
I have a sneaking suspicion something's wrong with the topology around the cheek/nose area. Oh yeah and something is up with the mouth! And maybe the eyes! Who knows, I've been looking at the thing for too long.
EDIT: Only rendered in Zbrush. Modeled in 3ds max!
Going to work out the rest tomorrow, the ear looks like the hardest part, I'm a little intimidated.
PS. Loving the Polycount wiki! If anyone has any good ear topologies then I'd love to hear/see.
Awesome work mate, love the armour work.
Some of your proportions are off though. The lower legs should be longer, or the knee is to low on the leg, I can't really tell from the images. The hands and feet are to small as well.
Hey, nice progress, love the demon hunter, she's a real babe You've got it good there, my only concern is that i think her left foot isn't that far behind. More like her legs are crossed but her feet aren't that far apart from each other, giving her a somewhat dignified posture.
You asked for good advice about some anatomy book, so as people did for me i'd recommend 2 I really like :
First : Atlas of the Human anatomy for Artist : A really good book, really complete with multiple views of arms, legs and all, the bones, the muscles - Awesome stuff
Second : Der nackte Menschen by Gottfried Bammes : Whilst it's completly in german, there are quite some good drawings and situations that makes this book a good reference ! I prefere the first one in term of quality and quantity, but this one's good too, especially if you can read german
Lots of responses containing lots of great feedback!
Nice work so far man! I've saved that picture of the hands top and bottom for future reference if you don't mind
Thanks! For sure, go for it dude, some parts were reworked (mostly I inserted edgeloops in some areas) but the foundation is there. If it's a good one or not, I'm not sure. Seems to work well for me though!
Good work so far The hands look tiny though.
Thank you. I will look into it
I second chrisradsby.
I will certainly look into it!
Awesome work mate, love the armour work.
Some of your proportions are off though. The lower legs should be longer, or the knee is to low on the leg, I can't really tell from the images. The hands and feet are to small as well.
Hm, I'll definitely look into it. It might be the image, I'll go over the legs again later and post another angle for you! Thanks .
Hey, nice progress, love the demon hunter, she's a real babe You've got it good there, my only concern is that i think her left foot isn't that far behind. More like her legs are crossed but her feet aren't that far apart from each other, giving her a somewhat dignified posture.
You asked for good advice about some anatomy book, so as people did for me i'd recommend 2 I really like :
First : Atlas of the Human anatomy for Artist : A really good book, really complete with multiple views of arms, legs and all, the bones, the muscles - Awesome stuff
Second : Der nackte Menschen by Gottfried Bammes : Whilst it's completly in german, there are quite some good drawings and situations that makes this book a good reference ! I prefere the first one in term of quality and quantity, but this one's good too, especially if you can read german
Thanks for the pointer on the posture, I will analyze it and try and match it better with the concept.
SUPER thanks for the anatomy book pointers! The first one looks great, I'm going to order it ASAP. Unfortunately I don't know German that well. I can speak Dutch but it's not quite enough, hehe. But I will investigate.
Special thanks!
OK, head update!
Topology is based on a few different designs that I merged, pointers as to what can be changed would be deeply appreciated.
How much reference are you using for the head? Right now it looks a bit weird.
I have this book , it's awesome. Lots of reference shots, most muscle groups on several different people male/female, race etc.
Lots of information regarading the different muscles as well, how they are used. Great great book, love it to bits, the only thing would be that most of the people are models, and models are usually fit so it's not really a great reference for average -> fat people but hey! You can always find that by checking photos from people from Walmart. xD (sorry world, I had to do it)
I wanted to work on the hair a bit because it was impossible to resist. I think it will help me determine the direction in which her (the demon hunter's) countenance will take.
Working with a bald head is nothing I've really done previously so I decided I needed something to support the feminine side a bit more.
(Note: The lights that I used are too strong, they illuminate the hair way too much, but it took a while to render this so it'll stay like that until I tweak, which will be much later presumably.)
How much reference are you using for the head? Right now it looks a bit weird.
I have this book , it's awesome. Lots of reference shots, most muscle groups on several different people male/female, race etc.
Lots of information regarading the different muscles as well, how they are used. Great great book, love it to bits, the only thing would be that most of the people are models, and models are usually fit so it's not really a great reference for average -> fat people but hey! You can always find that by checking photos from people from Walmart. xD (sorry world, I had to do it)
I definitely agree with you on the head and that's why I'm spending a good period making the head right now to make it look 'proper'. I don't want to go about it the wrong way - after all, a woman's virtue often derives from the face (in my understanding).
Thanks a lot for the tip on the book (and a good laugh at the latter remark), bonus points to you good sir! :thumbup: Seems I have a lot of good reading to look forward to!
Yeah, she's got a going on butt her face... it kinda reminds me of Famke Janssen
Try finding some images of girls and taking the features you like and applying it to your model. the lips, cheek bones and eyes need some softening and aligning, as well making them more attractive. This is what is going to make or break your model, so put some work into it!!
Also: the jaw needs some work now that i look at it.
Yeah, she's got a going on butt her face... it kinda reminds me of Famke Janssen
Try finding some images of girls and taking the features you like and applying it to your model. the lips, cheek bones and eyes need some softening and aligning, as well making them more attractive. This is what is going to make or break your model, so put some work into it!!
I didn't understand the first sentence at first but now I do! You're right I'm going to work on the face for a longer duration to get it looking right.
I want strong jaw bones (more mature-like of a face I suppose). I think it signifies a stronger sense of independence for a demon hunter. The different parts of the face are based on various individuals, Hazardous wrote a long post on this method in his Chun-Li thread which I'm adhering to. :thumbup:
I decided I needed to rework the topology, so that I can apply blendshapes later!
There may still be some faults in which case I'd love to know which areas could be improved, so that I can make it better (the head/neck - the rest is not as vital.)
I need to start reworking some of the face proportions soon, but I feel the topology rather determines my ability to manipulate said areas, so I want to get that right first.
- Andr
I sat down and did some major research on lips, which was actually really fun!
I was manipulating the old lips on the face this morning, and I wasn't getting the results which I wanted, so I decided to remake them.
Things turned out much better. Funny how things always get better the second time around!
However I'm sure there are still areas in which I can improve on this face (there always will be!)
I watch this face too much on my own so some outside opinions could really help me make it better! That's why I'm here in the first place anyways. Critique warmly welcome as always .
On an off-topic related note: I think I'm going to go buy groceries. - PIZZA TIME
I'm so glad you did a second pass on the head. This is much much better, the lips look fuller and more feminine, as a well as the facial proportions as a whole. For the purpose of future projects, You may want to spend some additional time on the clavicle
From this strait on shot you can almost see where the Sternocleidomastroid Muscles meets with the Clavicle bone to form a right angle.
You have some really clean modeling on the clavicle in the shot above, but it appears to be wrapping upwards around the neck. For the sake of this model it will be covered by a scarf so it won't be an issue.
ANYWHO!! Keep up the amazing work, and I'm extremely envious of your hard surface modeling skills ;-) It's something really to aspire to! I can't wait to see this finished.
I'm so glad you did a second pass on the head. This is much much better, the lips look fuller and more feminine, as a well as the facial proportions as a whole. For the purpose of future projects, You may want to spend some additional time on the clavicle
From this strait on shot you can almost see where the Sternocleidomastroid Muscles meets with the Clavicle bone to form a right angle.
image
image
You have some really clean modeling on the clavicle in the shot above, but it appears to be wrapping upwards around the neck. For the sake of this model it will be covered by a scarf so it won't be an issue.
ANYWHO!! Keep up the amazing work, and I'm extremely envious of your hard surface modeling skills ;-) It's something really to aspire to! I can't wait to see this finished.
Hi!
Yeah man, definitely! My clavicle is teh fail, I figured it wouldn't be seen either but that's not really an excuse for me not to make it proper anyways.
I just kind of guessed what they look like when I made it, which obviously isn't the best idea when working with anatomy. Thanks for the tips and compliments .
Made some teeth! These are not anatomically correct teeth, I created them based on my raw perception to what teeth look like, I may modify them at a later point .
They should be good enough as she won't really open her mouth a lot.
I've been working a bit more with the head, making it ready for some blendshapes! The smile shown in the video was a test. (I will be adding nurbs controllers.)
Decided to make a stream channel! I'm going to make some blendshapes for the face so take a peak if you want (some of them are made already.) If you have special methods within this realm please share, as I'd love to improve within each division I can with these heads (and workflow)!
EDIT: Here are some quick blendshapes I made ! (A little bit rushed for class, not the best in the universe but still fun!)
I'd like to thank Melissa Baldwin for helping me understand some of the animation concepts better. Thanks!
Fingers look too delicate. I know she is a women, but her hands are just to small still. Keep pushing the face. It doesn't feel very feminine. I think your almost there with it, but there is still something left to be desired. I'm not sure how your workflow is, but I never go hi poly in Zbrush till I have gotten my lower sub division to look exactly right. No matter how much detail you add if the forms feel off when its low, more polys don't make it better. You however have done a great job with the armor. Looks awesome. Can't wait to see some textures.
Made a sculpt of a crow head which was really fun. Too bad it's not going to be this big, though it was good practice! It'll be the cap for the rejuvenation potions. I'll probably edit this post later tonight with the whole potion...
Hey m8, good work so far. Just wanted to mention about the hands (the palms), they're much too small. I think even masking them out and increasing their size will make them much better (I'd say a 20-30% increase... but don't take my word on it) - but I think the fingers should be longer relative to the palm itself.
I'd also work a bit more on the shape of the armor. Some minor tweaks to make it seem more solid, more built. The shapes themselves are good, but in relation to each other they seem a bit messy. Try to look at the whole model as one piece, and less at each individual piece as an individual model. Sometimes putting on a flat shader helps notice major shape mis-fits and such, maybe give it a shot.
In general it's not bad, good attention to detail and pretty accurate model overall. Keep it up.
Hey m8, good work so far. Just wanted to mention about the hands (the palms), they're much too small. I think even masking them out and increasing their size will make them much better (I'd say a 20-30% increase... but don't take my word on it) - but I think the fingers should be longer relative to the palm itself.
I'd also work a bit more on the shape of the armor. Some minor tweaks to make it seem more solid, more built. The shapes themselves are good, but in relation to each other they seem a bit messy. Try to look at the whole model as one piece, and less at each individual piece as an individual model. Sometimes putting on a flat shader helps notice major shape mis-fits and such, maybe give it a shot.
In general it's not bad, good attention to detail and pretty accurate model overall. Keep it up.
Hey :thumbup:, I'll get the hands fixed, thanks! I'll look into the armor a bit more too. Good call on the flat shader procedure, I will look into that!
The gloves look a little flat and empty. Can we get some more shots fro different angles. I don't think you have enough meat in the palm of the hand. This crit could be premature. Overall your piece is coming along.
The gloves look a little flat and empty. Can we get some more shots fro different angles. I don't think you have enough meat in the palm of the hand. This crit could be premature. Overall your piece is coming along.
I agree! I had a slight suspicion about it but good thing you confirmed it. I updated the previous post image. Looks better now, thanks.
The ss of the hands don't look like they're in perspective mode, I think it's best to show things with perspective on. Difficult to read proportions and stuff otherwise.
After a few notices regarding the face not being 'sexy' enough I'm returning to the head to see what can be done.
The only real issue is that I'm not entirely sure how to go about this alteration, and was wondering whether or not anyone here has any tips on what could be changed
In the original concept I think the DH looks too young, and I was going for more of a mature look. I want to keep that, but make it more feminine. Any ideas?
The facial anatomy is a little off. Take a look at a woman's face and see how it looks compared to your face. Her bone structure doesnt seem feminine enough. Her jaw has a strange bulge on it, and I would say here eyes need some more work too. I think that the female face is definitely something difficult to make look feminine and sexy. Keep pushing it, because all of the sudden it'll click, and that face will look really nice.
I agree with the facial anatomy being a little off. Theres not really any 'quick fix' for this. I'd suggest doing some studies of faces to get the anatomy right. for me the worst offenders are the corners of the mouth, nostrils and eyes. Have a look at the works of Loomis and the planes of the face. Your hard surface stuff is kick ass though:) absolutly loving the crows skull
I have the feeling her upper lip is a bit to thick, it's almost as thick as the bottom lip and it gives off this feeling that her lips are stuck in their "kiss pose". Angelina Jolie has this too, but not as much, her upper lip is still slightly thinner than her bottom lip, which makes the effect less obvious.
Your models cheek also has a dent in it which shows of her cheek bone more (which is good!) but in your case the dent goes all the way too the corner of her mouth. This gives the feeling that she has no muscles there at all.
In this picture you can what I mean. Notice how it stops before it reaches the corner of her mouth keeping space for the muscles and thus keeping the shape around her mouth.
And a huge thanks for the the various tips about how I can tweak the face, you guys rock! I'll be away from my computer for a few days, but I will be studying facial anatomy until I return so that I can start adjusting the face mesh.
I've been following the polycount advice which I was given here and the face is looking better, but I feel like I need to make more changes.
I was wondering if anyone has any further ideas.
From Donavonyoung's advice:
The bulge on the jaw is gone for the most part, it was really exaggerated! A little bit is left though, from muscles (I've seen this a lot in references I've been peering at.) Reworked the eyes and they're more curved. They may need more prominence though, more femininity? I looked into Loomis work and it's great, thanks for the pointers!
From Ikosans's advice:
I worked on the corners of the mouth, tried to get them more natural and relaxed with the little drop shape which usually emerges. Perhaps this too needs more prominence. Thanks a lot!
From MeintevdS's advice:
I changed the upper lip and made it thinner, I agree that it was stuck in a kiss-pose, and it still has a small trace left from that but I think it's much better now . I reworked the cheek indent and you're absolutely right, it makes perfect sense for there not to be an indent there due to the internal musculature, thanks!
Lots of great advice, I'm lucky if I get more .
Thanks guys,
Replies
I agree, it is looking good now.. But before it was yeah >.>
I did some work on the back today. I'm probably going to make a few changes, and I'd also like to add some threads in the designated area:
It's time to make those hands... oh lord.
- Andr
- Andr
Added hands, they're rigged but I haven't made the crossbows yet so I made a cheesy hand pose in the meantime
I'm working on the face right now. I haven't gotten far, I'm mostly studying the topology. Are there any female faces that any of you think may seem appropriate?
There are some things left to do within the modeling realm after that: satchels, crossbows, proper hood, scarf and perhaps a cloak.
Thanks to Mason Doran for advice,
Edit - Changes have been made to the version of the hand in the images above. The palm is no longer as plump.
- Andr
I've been working on the head lately as I think I've mentioned previously.
It is more difficult than I anticipated but I think the results are getting better than they were in the update I was about to post before *phew, good thing I didn't*.
In any case, I'm sure there are things wrong here which I need to fix (and obviously she needs ears and the back of her head!) so let the critiques begin!!
I have a sneaking suspicion something's wrong with the topology around the cheek/nose area. Oh yeah and something is up with the mouth! And maybe the eyes! Who knows, I've been looking at the thing for too long.
EDIT: Only rendered in Zbrush. Modeled in 3ds max!
Going to work out the rest tomorrow, the ear looks like the hardest part, I'm a little intimidated.
PS. Loving the Polycount wiki! If anyone has any good ear topologies then I'd love to hear/see.
Thanks!
- Andr
Some of your proportions are off though. The lower legs should be longer, or the knee is to low on the leg, I can't really tell from the images. The hands and feet are to small as well.
You asked for good advice about some anatomy book, so as people did for me i'd recommend 2 I really like :
First : Atlas of the Human anatomy for Artist : A really good book, really complete with multiple views of arms, legs and all, the bones, the muscles - Awesome stuff
Second : Der nackte Menschen by Gottfried Bammes : Whilst it's completly in german, there are quite some good drawings and situations that makes this book a good reference ! I prefere the first one in term of quality and quantity, but this one's good too, especially if you can read german
Lots of responses containing lots of great feedback!
Thanks! For sure, go for it dude, some parts were reworked (mostly I inserted edgeloops in some areas) but the foundation is there. If it's a good one or not, I'm not sure. Seems to work well for me though!
Thank you. I will look into it
I will certainly look into it!
Hm, I'll definitely look into it. It might be the image, I'll go over the legs again later and post another angle for you! Thanks
Thanks for the pointer on the posture, I will analyze it and try and match it better with the concept.
SUPER thanks for the anatomy book pointers!
Special thanks!
OK, head update!
Topology is based on a few different designs that I merged, pointers as to what can be changed would be deeply appreciated.
- Andr
I have this book , it's awesome. Lots of reference shots, most muscle groups on several different people male/female, race etc.
Lots of information regarading the different muscles as well, how they are used. Great great book, love it to bits, the only thing would be that most of the people are models, and models are usually fit so it's not really a great reference for average -> fat people but hey! You can always find that by checking photos from people from Walmart. xD (sorry world, I had to do it)
I wanted to work on the hair a bit because it was impossible to resist. I think it will help me determine the direction in which her (the demon hunter's) countenance will take.
Working with a bald head is nothing I've really done previously so I decided I needed something to support the feminine side a bit more.
(Note: The lights that I used are too strong, they illuminate the hair way too much, but it took a while to render this so it'll stay like that until I tweak, which will be much later presumably.)
I definitely agree with you on the head and that's why I'm spending a good period making the head right now to make it look 'proper'. I don't want to go about it the wrong way - after all, a woman's virtue often derives from the face (in my understanding).
Thanks a lot for the tip on the book (and a good laugh at the latter remark), bonus points to you good sir! :thumbup: Seems I have a lot of good reading to look forward to!
Happy you like it, I'd like to think that subd modeling is my strong suit!
- Andr
Try finding some images of girls and taking the features you like and applying it to your model. the lips, cheek bones and eyes need some softening and aligning, as well making them more attractive. This is what is going to make or break your model, so put some work into it!!
Also: the jaw needs some work now that i look at it.
Definitely! I will be working with the head for a while now
- Andr
I didn't understand the first sentence at first but now I do! You're right
I want strong jaw bones (more mature-like of a face I suppose). I think it signifies a stronger sense of independence for a demon hunter. The different parts of the face are based on various individuals, Hazardous wrote a long post on this method in his Chun-Li thread which I'm adhering to. :thumbup:
I've got to work on that attractiveness, hehe!
- Andr
I decided I needed to rework the topology, so that I can apply blendshapes later!
There may still be some faults in which case I'd love to know which areas could be improved, so that I can make it better
I need to start reworking some of the face proportions soon, but I feel the topology rather determines my ability to manipulate said areas, so I want to get that right first.
- Andr
Made a little satchel during this Saturday evening
Polys are visible because it hasn't been assigned a smoothing group yet in max.
- Andr
I sat down and did some major research on lips, which was actually really fun!
I was manipulating the old lips on the face this morning, and I wasn't getting the results which I wanted, so I decided to remake them.
Things turned out much better. Funny how things always get better the second time around!
However I'm sure there are still areas in which I can improve on this face (there always will be!)
I watch this face too much on my own so some outside opinions could really help me make it better! That's why I'm here in the first place anyways. Critique warmly welcome as always
On an off-topic related note: I think I'm going to go buy groceries. - PIZZA TIME
- Andr
From this strait on shot you can almost see where the Sternocleidomastroid Muscles meets with the Clavicle bone to form a right angle.
You have some really clean modeling on the clavicle in the shot above, but it appears to be wrapping upwards around the neck. For the sake of this model it will be covered by a scarf so it won't be an issue.
ANYWHO!! Keep up the amazing work, and I'm extremely envious of your hard surface modeling skills ;-) It's something really to aspire to! I can't wait to see this finished.
Hi!
Yeah man, definitely! My clavicle is teh fail, I figured it wouldn't be seen either but that's not really an excuse for me not to make it proper anyways.
I just kind of guessed what they look like when I made it, which obviously isn't the best idea when working with anatomy. Thanks for the tips and compliments
- Andr
Hey!
Made some teeth! These are not anatomically correct teeth, I created them based on my raw perception to what teeth look like, I may modify them at a later point
They should be good enough as she won't really open her mouth a lot.
- Andr
Did some more work on the head,
It's slowly getting there!
I think I'm going to work on the mandible section next, it feels a little bit chubby?
Ordered anatomy books today!
- Andr
I've been working a bit more with the head, making it ready for some blendshapes! The smile shown in the video was a test.
Hope you like it,
EDIT: The head looks like this now, by the way:
- Andr
Decided to make a stream channel! I'm going to make some blendshapes for the face so take a peak if you want (some of them are made already.) If you have special methods within this realm please share, as I'd love to improve within each division I can with these heads (and workflow)!
EDIT: Here are some quick blendshapes I made
I'd like to thank Melissa Baldwin for helping me understand some of the animation concepts better. Thanks!
- Andr
Applied head to body rig and made a little dagger
- Andr
Made a sculpt of a crow head which was really fun. Too bad it's not going to be this big, though it was good practice!
- Andr
- Andr
I'd also work a bit more on the shape of the armor. Some minor tweaks to make it seem more solid, more built. The shapes themselves are good, but in relation to each other they seem a bit messy. Try to look at the whole model as one piece, and less at each individual piece as an individual model. Sometimes putting on a flat shader helps notice major shape mis-fits and such, maybe give it a shot.
In general it's not bad, good attention to detail and pretty accurate model overall. Keep it up.
Hey :thumbup:, I'll get the hands fixed, thanks!
- Andr
The hands were bare before, so gloves to the rescue! May need some more wear. Tweaks, quiver and crossbows next.
This is going to be fun to paint weight for tests.
- Andr
I agree! I had a slight suspicion about it but good thing you confirmed it. I updated the previous post image. Looks better now, thanks.
- Andr
After a few notices regarding the face not being 'sexy' enough I'm returning to the head to see what can be done.
The only real issue is that I'm not entirely sure how to go about this alteration, and was wondering whether or not anyone here has any tips on what could be changed
In the original concept I think the DH looks too young, and I was going for more of a mature look. I want to keep that, but make it more feminine. Any ideas?
Thanks, :-)
- Andr
Your models cheek also has a dent in it which shows of her cheek bone more (which is good!) but in your case the dent goes all the way too the corner of her mouth. This gives the feeling that she has no muscles there at all.
In this picture you can what I mean. Notice how it stops before it reaches the corner of her mouth keeping space for the muscles and thus keeping the shape around her mouth.
But you're going the right way. Keep it up!
Thanks roosterMap
And a huge thanks for the the various tips about how I can tweak the face, you guys rock!
Made the base quiver in the meantime
Stay tuned
- Andr
I've been following the polycount advice which I was given here and the face is looking better, but I feel like I need to make more changes.
I was wondering if anyone has any further ideas.
From Donavonyoung's advice:
The bulge on the jaw is gone for the most part, it was really exaggerated! A little bit is left though, from muscles (I've seen this a lot in references I've been peering at.) Reworked the eyes and they're more curved. They may need more prominence though, more femininity? I looked into Loomis work and it's great, thanks for the pointers!
From Ikosans's advice:
I worked on the corners of the mouth, tried to get them more natural and relaxed with the little drop shape which usually emerges. Perhaps this too needs more prominence. Thanks a lot!
From MeintevdS's advice:
I changed the upper lip and made it thinner, I agree that it was stuck in a kiss-pose, and it still has a small trace left from that but I think it's much better now
Lots of great advice, I'm lucky if I get more
Thanks guys,
- Andr
Worked on the crossbow lately! I will be adding the intricacies today to this basemesh:
Blizzcon has been distracting me... but no more :P. It was AMAZAZING!
- Andr
I've been really busy with other things this month (looking for internships...)
I'll be working more on it really soon
- Andr
I made some lighting settings for the later stages with Vray and decided I could show another promotional shot. Why not?
- Andr
Thanks, I'm going to continue working on the head.
- Andr