Can we see some of the other color schemes you've been working on? Personally I think it's a bit too much red atm. Maybe in the pants you can add a bit more of your blacks and grays back in. It is looking great now still.
I upped the value on the blue cloth, doesn't add much palette wise but I think a bit more contrast in your values might be another step in the direction you want to go?
Personally I've always been a fan of blue and red but I'd be interested in seeing some more schemes as well.
I'd still push for the gold trim around the red (even really dark), for the contrast at least. For the underbits, the blue sleeve's and leggings, have you thought about chainmail? That's typically how this sort of outfit would work if I base my accurate knowledge off of fictional fantasy history.
marq4porsche:
Most of the color scheme experiments had just been changing the shade of red or the color of the tighter cloth on his arms and legs, so none of them are really worth showing.
Bunglo:
I'd actually done a couple of experiments where I did pretty much exactly what you have in that image, but they all seemed far to garish and bright, so I went in the other direction.
almighty_gir:
I think I'm going to add a touch more gold trim before I'm done, most likely on the gloves and boots. I'm undecided about adding gold to the poofy bits, but I'll take a crack at it.
limesimme:
I'm not sure I'm quite ready to move to Sweden, beautiful country though it may be. :poly122:
ScudzAlmighty:
I'd considered chainmail, but decided it simply wouldn't read very well and wouldn't work with the design. Chainmail tends to be loose and it's extremely heavy, so it'd end up sagging and fitting most naturally as something like a jacket and/or skirt.
8-Bit:
Thanks!
I decided the red wasn't working as well as it could've, so I inverted the color scheme. I'd been extremely hesitant to do this because the red is one of the hallmarks of the Hammerites in the Thief games, but decided that it simply works better and the original designs be damned. It's not as if I'm actually basing this off of a single existing character, anyway.
Going to start getting the accessories done soon. I'm so, sooo ready to call this guy done and move on to my next project.
No problem, I do like this version much better. The black and red works much better together. Maybe add some thin gold stripes along the edges of the straps on the legs and arms to tie the gold into it some more and I think it'll look great.
marq4porsche:
I tried out thin strips of gold, but it simply drew the eye too much. I've settled on stitches.
Whoever it was that said the last 10% takes 90% of the work was more correct than they could've ever imagined. My god.
I added a bunch of grime and grunge and gradients and other G words. I also threw a pattern in the spec and gloss channels of the darker strips to give some interest. I also, obviously, put that damn hat back on him with a super super WIP texture that I'm going to end up completely redoing.
for the chainmail I really just meant the light decorative kind, like Franco wears in Your Highness, just something simple to break up the colour and bounce some spec off. but with this version it definatley wouldn't work
I'd maybe add some more stitching to the cuffs of the leather, or some straps. just to show how it's held in place.
lol'd at your post in the waywo thread. "GRUNGE, BITCHES" haha. Your work is really professional and inspirational and just all around awesome! If I might humbly add a suggestion, it would be to add some subtle color variation or even value and/or saturation shifts for parts of the uniform. I guess there's already been some suggestions along those lines, but I found some ref photos (sorry if you've already seen these)
I just like how the metal is polished and shiny, and then the clothing right next to the armor is slightly darker, and then the next color is darker and less saturated. Also, there's just a few accented areas that are pure white, and they really grab the eye b/c of their high contrast. I think your current color scheme is lacking a bit of contrast. Sorry for the long post, and hope i made even a little bit of sense!
It's looking nice, Swizzle. You need to play around with the metal material though, right now it's looking a bit like plastic. Perhaps you could darken the material overall and then up the spec or something. What shader and program are you using?
eazy:
You're right that it could use a little more contrast, though I'm still trying to figure out the best place to put something to offset the dark colors. Maybe on the the exposed areas of the doublet.
Goraaz:
You're right about the metal. I've been tweaking the spec and such to try and get it looking more metallic and less plastic, though I dunno if I've been successful thus far. I'm using Marmoset and the Blue Sky lighting setup. I'll almost certainly be changing the lighting scheme a bit later on, though I do like the ambient and main color of this setup.
Sukotto:
I've added a bit more gold, though I'm not certain it's enough. Thoughts?
Lotsa changes and additions here. I changed the stitches to gold stripes, added a slight purple tint to the poofy bits to bring in a touch more color, added gold stripes to a couple of areas that were plain before and tweaked the spec a bit so it has a slightly broader highlight.
Also, I added a helmet and the chest belt. Woo! They're both still heavily WIP, so don't be too harsh on 'em.
jebus, this is coming out awesome! I can't believe you actually modeled out those leg straps instead of just doing an alpha, they look great. Love that face. Only crit I can possibly offer would be to really pop that spec difference of the grundge/ damage paint fleck (whatever the lighter toned speckles are) on the chest.
You should play around with the alpha channel of the spec map, see if that helps. On another note your straps are looking a bit shallow, some almost painted on. Perhaps you could duplicate them in the normal map and overlay them on top of your normal map just to see if that helps.
I also think that some parts are looking very thin, like those metallic pieces on his hands. You could thicken those out a bit.
Looks great though, I like the new hat
oh sure, Sukotto tells you to add more gold and you jump right on it. Bastard
j/k looks great, the patterns in the leather are really cool too. Are they in the diffuse or just the spec?
I definitely think you need to fatten up the main strap across his chest though, right now it looks like paper instead of heavy leather.
Make sure you do a wear pass on the boots and the rest of the leather too. All the metal is coming along but if this guy has been spending a lot of nights on patrols I'd expect his boots to be a bit scuffed and bare in areas.
onelung:
Thanks! I modeled all the straps and stuff because it was more manageable to have them as separate pieces. On a more organic character, I may have done something slightly different.
I'll take a look at the spec on those areas. They don't pop quite as much as I'd like, so they're in for a little adjustment.
Goraaz:
Aye, the whole gloss channel needs more love. It's almost 100% WIP stuff, so I'll play around with the contrast on it and then adjust the shader in Marmoset to make things work a little better.
I'll play around with the normal on the straps. It's actually one of the things that's been bugging me, so it's going to get some attention soon.
As for the hand plates, I think the main reason they look kind of thin is because of the lighting. They're actually fairly chunky, but the lighting doesn't pick up good highlights on the edges and it makes them look thin. Once I start playing with lighting more, I think they'll look more appropriately thick.
ScudzAlmighty:
Hey! That was before I switched the colors around! :poly124:
The patterns are exclusively in the spec. I wanted them to appear to be caused by different textures in the fabric, but not different colors. It also gives a really cool look when there's some glancing light.
I'll thicken that strap up soon; you're right about it looking papery.
Norron:
Aye, I haven't really touched the leather in a while and it needs more attention. There shall be scuffs!
carlobarley:
I'd been meaning to post the texture sheets, so here they are (or at least most of them; the strap and helmet textures are still WIP). The head texture is 1024 and the body is 2048.
Swiz I personally dug the dark underclothes and the red puffy bits. With them reversed my brains just /. I think part of it has to do with the natural inclination that something underneath is occluded and thus darker. So its fighting for my attention in a bad way vs just reading naturally.
I realize that it can/has/will be broken but its just my personal taste.
Also in reguards to the metal, Might try pushing the diffuse back to the 10% value range, and reign the spec into about the 50% value range (probably about where it is actually) and drop that gloss to about 35-55% value depending on the type of metal you're trying to achieve.
Marmoset "Specular Sharpness" cranking that up will really give you a broad value range to run with in the gloss so that you can make materials read much better, don't be afraid to push it up to 122.5, I've ran into recently on my current project. I just couldn't get the definition I was looking for until I cranked that up, which I had never messed with before (its directly under "Specular Intensity") and once I did that it opened up a whole new can of beans.
The red on the armor too could use some sorting out. Atm its reading like cheap a cheap veneer trying to imitate marble or opal.
As for the metal trim thats brighter, you can really darken that in the diffuse to the 5% range and push the spec to the 65-80 range, and you can play around with the gloss levels, but for more chrome-esc material, while it may not be right I like to leave it pretty glossy
TL;DR
The bird dunk on the helmet cracks me up :thumbup:
Push the metal further and play with "Specular Sharpness"
ex: Done in Marmo with specular sharpness set to 122.5 and the "Blue Sky" light @ default.
I prefer the red ontop of blue vs what you have now for the strappy bits and underclothes.
Grimm_Wrecking:
I appreciate the post. I played around with the metal quite a bit and decided not to change it too much. I wanted this guy's armor to look like it'd actually been used out in the elements, and metal that's exposed like that tends to darken and look dull over time.
carlobarley:
No problem!
I think I'm about ready to call this done. I have a ton of work to do before GDC and that's taking priority. Unless there are any obscene, glaring issues that I'm not seeing, I'm not going to touch this again because I don't want to get into that mode where I'm simply pixel fucking.
Jesus, what a ride. It's been something close to a year since I actually started on the head for this guy, and that was simply supposed to be a speed sculpt.
Scudz, Shiv:
I agree about the pedestal, though I simply don't have the time right now. I have other stuff I need to get done before GDC, so this thing is as finished as I'm going to make it, unfortunately.
fearian:
I actually had to stop working on it for a long time because work and my personal life were both extremely hectic. I picked it up again several months later, did some additional sculpting, then modeled the low-poly and did all the textures over the past month or so.
looks ace swiz, I particularly like the subtle pattern on the red fabrics....I think after GDC it might be worth re-visiting the metals and getting them to pop, but its a great piece none the less
Replies
Personally I've always been a fan of blue and red but I'd be interested in seeing some more schemes as well.
I'd still push for the gold trim around the red (even really dark), for the contrast at least. For the underbits, the blue sleeve's and leggings, have you thought about chainmail? That's typically how this sort of outfit would work if I base my accurate knowledge off of fictional fantasy history.
Most of the color scheme experiments had just been changing the shade of red or the color of the tighter cloth on his arms and legs, so none of them are really worth showing.
Bunglo:
I'd actually done a couple of experiments where I did pretty much exactly what you have in that image, but they all seemed far to garish and bright, so I went in the other direction.
almighty_gir:
I think I'm going to add a touch more gold trim before I'm done, most likely on the gloves and boots. I'm undecided about adding gold to the poofy bits, but I'll take a crack at it.
limesimme:
I'm not sure I'm quite ready to move to Sweden, beautiful country though it may be. :poly122:
ScudzAlmighty:
I'd considered chainmail, but decided it simply wouldn't read very well and wouldn't work with the design. Chainmail tends to be loose and it's extremely heavy, so it'd end up sagging and fitting most naturally as something like a jacket and/or skirt.
8-Bit:
Thanks!
I decided the red wasn't working as well as it could've, so I inverted the color scheme. I'd been extremely hesitant to do this because the red is one of the hallmarks of the Hammerites in the Thief games, but decided that it simply works better and the original designs be damned. It's not as if I'm actually basing this off of a single existing character, anyway.
Going to start getting the accessories done soon. I'm so, sooo ready to call this guy done and move on to my next project.
I tried out thin strips of gold, but it simply drew the eye too much. I've settled on stitches.
Whoever it was that said the last 10% takes 90% of the work was more correct than they could've ever imagined. My god.
I added a bunch of grime and grunge and gradients and other G words. I also threw a pattern in the spec and gloss channels of the darker strips to give some interest. I also, obviously, put that damn hat back on him with a super super WIP texture that I'm going to end up completely redoing.
Next up is the hammer and holster/chest strap.
for the chainmail I really just meant the light decorative kind, like Franco wears in Your Highness, just something simple to break up the colour and bounce some spec off. but with this version it definatley wouldn't work
I'd maybe add some more stitching to the cuffs of the leather, or some straps. just to show how it's held in place.
I just like how the metal is polished and shiny, and then the clothing right next to the armor is slightly darker, and then the next color is darker and less saturated. Also, there's just a few accented areas that are pure white, and they really grab the eye b/c of their high contrast. I think your current color scheme is lacking a bit of contrast. Sorry for the long post, and hope i made even a little bit of sense!
Ahhh, I see what you meant.
eazy:
You're right that it could use a little more contrast, though I'm still trying to figure out the best place to put something to offset the dark colors. Maybe on the the exposed areas of the doublet.
Goraaz:
You're right about the metal. I've been tweaking the spec and such to try and get it looking more metallic and less plastic, though I dunno if I've been successful thus far. I'm using Marmoset and the Blue Sky lighting setup. I'll almost certainly be changing the lighting scheme a bit later on, though I do like the ambient and main color of this setup.
Sukotto:
I've added a bit more gold, though I'm not certain it's enough. Thoughts?
Lotsa changes and additions here. I changed the stitches to gold stripes, added a slight purple tint to the poofy bits to bring in a touch more color, added gold stripes to a couple of areas that were plain before and tweaked the spec a bit so it has a slightly broader highlight.
Also, I added a helmet and the chest belt. Woo! They're both still heavily WIP, so don't be too harsh on 'em.
I also think that some parts are looking very thin, like those metallic pieces on his hands. You could thicken those out a bit.
Looks great though, I like the new hat
j/k looks great, the patterns in the leather are really cool too. Are they in the diffuse or just the spec?
I definitely think you need to fatten up the main strap across his chest though, right now it looks like paper instead of heavy leather.
Make sure you do a wear pass on the boots and the rest of the leather too. All the metal is coming along but if this guy has been spending a lot of nights on patrols I'd expect his boots to be a bit scuffed and bare in areas.
Thanks! I modeled all the straps and stuff because it was more manageable to have them as separate pieces. On a more organic character, I may have done something slightly different.
I'll take a look at the spec on those areas. They don't pop quite as much as I'd like, so they're in for a little adjustment.
Goraaz:
Aye, the whole gloss channel needs more love. It's almost 100% WIP stuff, so I'll play around with the contrast on it and then adjust the shader in Marmoset to make things work a little better.
I'll play around with the normal on the straps. It's actually one of the things that's been bugging me, so it's going to get some attention soon.
As for the hand plates, I think the main reason they look kind of thin is because of the lighting. They're actually fairly chunky, but the lighting doesn't pick up good highlights on the edges and it makes them look thin. Once I start playing with lighting more, I think they'll look more appropriately thick.
ScudzAlmighty:
Hey! That was before I switched the colors around! :poly124:
The patterns are exclusively in the spec. I wanted them to appear to be caused by different textures in the fabric, but not different colors. It also gives a really cool look when there's some glancing light.
I'll thicken that strap up soon; you're right about it looking papery.
Norron:
Aye, I haven't really touched the leather in a while and it needs more attention. There shall be scuffs!
carlobarley:
I'd been meaning to post the texture sheets, so here they are (or at least most of them; the strap and helmet textures are still WIP). The head texture is 1024 and the body is 2048.
I realize that it can/has/will be broken but its just my personal taste.
Also in reguards to the metal, Might try pushing the diffuse back to the 10% value range, and reign the spec into about the 50% value range (probably about where it is actually) and drop that gloss to about 35-55% value depending on the type of metal you're trying to achieve.
Marmoset "Specular Sharpness" cranking that up will really give you a broad value range to run with in the gloss so that you can make materials read much better, don't be afraid to push it up to 122.5, I've ran into recently on my current project. I just couldn't get the definition I was looking for until I cranked that up, which I had never messed with before (its directly under "Specular Intensity") and once I did that it opened up a whole new can of beans.
The red on the armor too could use some sorting out. Atm its reading like cheap a cheap veneer trying to imitate marble or opal.
As for the metal trim thats brighter, you can really darken that in the diffuse to the 5% range and push the spec to the 65-80 range, and you can play around with the gloss levels, but for more chrome-esc material, while it may not be right I like to leave it pretty glossy
TL;DR
The bird dunk on the helmet cracks me up :thumbup:
Push the metal further and play with "Specular Sharpness"
ex: Done in Marmo with specular sharpness set to 122.5 and the "Blue Sky" light @ default.
I prefer the red ontop of blue vs what you have now for the strappy bits and underclothes.
Keep on truckin', me likey.
I appreciate the post. I played around with the metal quite a bit and decided not to change it too much. I wanted this guy's armor to look like it'd actually been used out in the elements, and metal that's exposed like that tends to darken and look dull over time.
carlobarley:
No problem!
I think I'm about ready to call this done. I have a ton of work to do before GDC and that's taking priority. Unless there are any obscene, glaring issues that I'm not seeing, I'm not going to touch this again because I don't want to get into that mode where I'm simply pixel fucking.
Jesus, what a ride. It's been something close to a year since I actually started on the head for this guy, and that was simply supposed to be a speed sculpt.
He still needs some kinda pedestal, or at lwast a more interesting background, but I stand by my all-caps.
I agree about the pedestal, though I simply don't have the time right now. I have other stuff I need to get done before GDC, so this thing is as finished as I'm going to make it, unfortunately.
fearian:
I actually had to stop working on it for a long time because work and my personal life were both extremely hectic. I picked it up again several months later, did some additional sculpting, then modeled the low-poly and did all the textures over the past month or so.