Art Institute Visit
polycounter lvl 11
I just got back from Pittsburgh to attend the enrolled students program thing they had there. The school is really fuckin' sweet from what I've seen, and the staff and all the instructors seem really chill and actually cool to hang out with. I was playin CoD in the lobby with some of them. I forget what floor it was but I looked into a room, saw Zbrush open on one screen, 3ds Max open on another, and polycount open on another screen and i instantly ran in there and started talkin to people. I feel like I'm going to be in that room a lot. But from what I've heard the AIs aren't very good, but I guess it just depends on which one you go to and what your major is. I guess I'll find out when I attend in the fall. I think it's going to be great. Anyone else goin or have gone????
Replies
All I have to say is this...it is up to you. You need to put in the work. If you keep it up and keep practicing and improving then its a good school. If you, like many of my classmates, think its the school job to teach you everything and hold your hand into the industry, its going to be a waste of money.
Would I do it again, knowing what I know now. In a heart beat. I learned things, made good friends, and start work soon.
Oh its pretty pricey so make sure you have the $ or are happy with a bunch of loans.
Honestly who cares if the instructors are cool to hang out with... ask them why they are teaching and if they work at a studio on the side. Also playing cod is the library is really odd. Every school is going to have zbrush and 3ds max. Polycount is a good sign. I would find that person and talk to them.
I went through the school searching process all through high school... literally 4 years... and decided not to go to any Ai. I don't know a ton about them other than the fact that it is a gamble on how good they are.
Try and get a list of the most recent graduating class and see how many have jobs and where they are working. That is usually a good sign on whether you want to go there.
It sounds like you have already decided to go. So my suggestion is go in with a serious mind set and really get an idea for the entire major. You can always transfer but you should do that sooner rather than later.
Just try not get to blow your load after see someone playing cod or zbrush on a computer.
Exactly. I see it like this. My major is Visual Effects and Motion graphics, not game design. So with that degree I have a lot more options for jobs and such, and it ties into basically any career. Editing, CGI, commercials, educational videos, video games, anything. As of now I want to be an environment artist but I know my goal might change. So self teaching myself how to use programs like 3ds max and Zbrush is the easy part, the challenging part which is why I'm here is to learn other aspects of the digital art industry and apply what I learn from other students and my major to create what ever I want.
I think what ariofighter is saying, and he can correct me if I'm wrong. You will be getting technical skills. But no as much the artistic. You speak about Visual Effects and Motion graphics, which to me would imply needing a strong background in Graphic Design. Does the school give that background before putting you on the equipment? Typography? Etc.
Having those degrees still wont do you any good if you cant get a job because you werent taught the basics of good layout and design.
You already seem to be on the right track by posting here on PC, now the trick is to maintain that same level of drive and passion throughout your time in school, and if you can, you'll be amazed at how much you can learn in such a short time.
My biggest piece of advice would be to find a group of driven individuals and befriend them. Help foster a healthy learning environment amongst your peers and your time there will be a great one. If you start out in the dorms, and that means switch rooms to surround yourself with those ppl, do it.
Push yourself, and push those around you, and finally STAY ACTIVE IN THIS COMMUNITY. This place is The Bar, not your classroom, so hold yourself to a professional standard.
If you have any more in-depth questions just shoot me a PM and I'll try to answer them the best I can. Work hard man. It'll pay off.
I can't speak for the Motion Graphics Major since I am not in it, but in my case, I had a year's worth of fundamental classes, mostly 2-d and theory classes before the technical stuff was ever introduced in the classroom.
At the time I found this a bit frustrating, and just studied up on that stuff on my own. But I can't deny the value of those fundamental classes. You'll use them for the rest of your artistic life, so take them seriously.
DUDE! where you there today during the afternoon? Cuz I just looked at your Dhalsim Jam WIp and I'm pretty sure I saw that open in ZBrush or something, or maybe the kids in there were all looking at polycount stuff.
Of course it changes from school to school and I've heard some positive things about a few of the AI's. In the end it all comes down to how much you put into it and the kind of people you surround yourself with. If you actually focus, have a goal and work on art in your spare time then you'll be fine. Most of the students at those schools fucking play games during their classes though and don't do shit outside of assignments and they end up jobless and in debt.
Just to hammer in the money part though, do you really want to be $100,000 in debt when you're 22 or 23? It's insane to me. If you have the drive and are able to focus then I'd suggest going the self-taught route or attending something small and short like Futurepoly to supplement your learning. It's okay if you need the structure and want to be surrounded by people at a school like AI though. Just remember you'll be paying off your student loans for quite a while.
1. Vastly cheaper
2. You have a degree from an accrediated school that doesn't have 'Art' in the title. A useful thing if god forbid you ever have to get a job outside the industry.
3. You learn foundational skills that will compliment and augment everything you do professionally.
4. You'll take classes outside your focus, which means a broader and more balanced background as an artist. Never underestimate the value of a good English class. Quality communication is important in every field.
My advice to you all. No matter what or which art school you choice to attend. There will be always tough for entry-level artist like most of us all here in polycount. My advice to you is to make friends with your classmmates and trying to get involved with any kind of mod/collaboration projects. There is plenty of jobs for non-profits group on www.modb.com i think if I get the link correct, not sure. But, my point is to earn your experience on your resume as well practice for your portfolio. START EARLY is best way to go. Make sure you have your mind-set with rightful heart knowing that art is right for you in your long-living career because it really required alot of commitments with big heart and love to it. I doubt alot of us in here are having high-pay job here from first start this career.
Alot of entry-level artists/post graduations are struggling to find job in this industry due to economics meltdown in last few years. So, just have your endurce through to building from the stratch.
Please note that any AI programs are accelerated. It does not mean the everything is bad. It is students' responsbilities on how they take art industry seriously and fat money per quarter/semester. So, the teachers' job is to sort of passing the students based on their level of skills abilities. They cannot keep on failing them from low quality compared to top quality. It is STUDENT's RESPONSBILITES to take their career seriously.
Believe me, I have seen alot among the program. I am glad where I am today because I am at very close to get my first job after 1 year of industry experience since graduation.
The degree isn't going to get you a job in the game industry, and their talk of helping you find a job is a load of garbage, the only purpose their career services serve is to mooch off your hard work and take as much credit as they can get if you do get a job to inflate their numbers to entice budding new artists to their expensive courses. That said who knows when having a degree may come in handy, but there are plenty of cheaper places to get one.
You will find several courses that could very well make all the difference in your future as a game artist, but the vast majority of the school will be wasted time and money. You'll spend thousands of dollars on classes like astronomy, ethics, rigging (if you're an artist), concept art (if you're an animator), etc etc. Not only is this money you're throwing away, this is wasted energy you could be spending getting good at your trade of choice. Yes it helps to dabble early on to figure out what you want to do, but again it's far cheaper at community college, or just goofing around in Photoshop, Max, Maya, or Zbrush.
Brutaly honest advice if you just want to get into the industry and save as much time and money as possible:
Take enough GE classes at community colleges that you can jump right into art and 3d classes. Ignore the class rubric and figure out what you want to do asap, be it concept art, animation, 3d art. Then focus on those classes and take their pre requisites, they will likely help you as well. Strive to get decent asap and start looking for a job when you're decent, get some art tests and poke your head around to see what's industry standard. Network and all that, try to make connections with the graduating class as they're the ones who will be able to help you get jobs. There were recently some positions open at where i work and the number of people that came to mind that I could refer that didn't already have a job was ridiculously small. If you're a decent person and good at what you do and network, you WILL have a shot. After about a year or so of focusing intently on what path you want to take, if you've worked hard you should be in a position that someone may hire you somewhere and you will have only taken a fraction of the full curriculum.
No one cares about the fact you're an AI graduate, show your strengths in your portfolio. If you're hard working and able to find your own path into the industry the odds of you making it are far better, it's the students who think everything is set in motion to a job by going to school who don't make it in the end.
That's my advice as an AI graduate who has actively observed the rise and fall of my fellow students. I know you likely wont take it, you're all rolled up in your hopes and dreams and the little spiel they pay their recruiters to give you. But at the very least take a few classes at junior college.
Quick edit: The last course you will take is a career advice course where they teach you how to make a resume and cover letter. This is incredibly important to finding a job but there are thousands of places you can learn this common skill for free. Just find a decent one and throw your info onto it. As you grow as an artist try to create "bullet points" that you can put on your resume to help you stand out, enter online competitions like the ones here on polycount and other game art sites. Join mod teams. Not only do these look good and help you make art, but it's just a lot of fun as you toil away penniless on your art.
Edit to add quote from above - "It is students' responsbilities on how they take art industry seriously and fat money per quarter/semester. So, the teachers' job is to sort of passing the students based on their level of skills abilities. They cannot keep on failing them from low quality compared to top quality. It is STUDENT's RESPONSBILITES to take their career seriously. "
If you do decide to go to school, really push the bar and get involved in as much as you can.
nuff said.
I started when it was at the old school, which was absolutely awesome.... we were stuck down in the basement
Then we moved to the new school. Shop was a hell of a lot nicer and the computer department seemed a hell of a lot better.
Had an awesome time when I was working in the Tech Shop
I spent most of my time drinking to be fair and having a great time with my buddies there. If I had to go back I would have preferred to do the CAM course - although I have no idea if that exists in its old form.
As has been said before, you get what you put in - however... if you spent two years learning off the internet and from here you could probably end up in a similar position, if not better - but with less debt.
Just my opinion - if you go, make the most out of it... plus say hello to Greg up in the tech shop, if he is still there, for me
Instead of spending all that money on a "school" and making someone else rich. Find and hire a programmer and artist who are both currently out of work and start up an indie game company with them.
Work and learn under them, make a few games and sell them.
You will probably learn way more actually working with professionals on real games, rather than spending that money on a piece of paper called a "degree".
Who knows? you guys might even make the next Minecraft and be rich...
1. Acquire (or borrow) 100k
2. Hire a programmer
3. ???????
4. PROFIT
5. Monocles and top hats
Believe me, I went to a course for graphic design that was just like that (but with caffe lattes and ironic t-shirts instead of CoD) and it was rubbish.
Did you get to see any student's work while you were there? I would've loved to see some previous applications from students so I could compare how good they were before/after. How many students that land jobs/internships after they get a degree?
Does the course plan seem to make sense, what and how will they go about teaching the students about 3d, workflow and the different programs, how often will you have lectures from industry people and so on.
Where are previous students working today/do they still have work in the entertainment industry etc? Do they do any follow up on that?
All that is stuff I'd like to know if I were to apply to a school, especially if it's going to cost me 100k$
I've also found that when you learn about doing game art it's generally less about playing games and more about making them.
LOL great stuff.
Working the Tech Shop was great
I will say, if you do go, get as many scholarships as you can, take as many of your general ed classes through a community college as you can, and don't just do the class lessons and expect to get a job when you're done.
AI, and private colleges in general are a business, first and foremost, and their number one focus is the money they make. They will skimp on technology, and experienced and applicable teachers many times, who sometimes may be in the same boat as you, as far as knowledge on the tech goes.
Study on your own ALOT, make friends, and join a mod.
And also: Yea. COD in the lobby of the school sets off some red flags for me. If they're not going to be presenting games and art done by students and professors, then should they be trying to pull you in by presenting a fun party atmosphere?
the only thing that i benefited from coming here was the motivation that it gave me to actually get my work done. thats good i guess. but let me just point you to another thread real quick.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84560
BEWARE! you will run into this. no matter what school you attend, there will always be groups like this, more than likely most of them will be in that room you said you would be spending most of your time in.
for my school, the only thing that was really worth it in the beginning was the library. they have every gnomon, digitaltutors, and eat3d dvd. using those dvds, i learned more than any teacher would offer to teach. here they want people to be generalists because its florida and there are no big companies down here aside from places that outsource or do casual games. for companies like that they need generalists, so thats what they train you to be. they are AGAINST specializing toward anything in your portfolio which i think is stupid.
the school also LIES! ill assume if mine did, they all do. they lured me in with promises and hopes and dreams of bullshit that doesnt happen. i attended an open house, and they said they use Unreal 3 (this was back in 2007), and that they have 98% job placement.
well here's what i found out. They used Unreal 2004 while i was at the open house, and at the "college connection" i attended. if i had not complained to the department chair damn near every day, we wouldnt have gotten unreal 3 until UDK came out. they basically waited for the Mastering Unreal 3 book from Jason Busby to come out before they even got the game to use the editor just because the teacher who taught unreal (who i recently had fired because HE DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING!) didnt want to learn unreal 3. he actually had THE STUDENTS writing his class tutorials when we first got ut3. then he used the student's tutorials to teach his classes.
in regards to the 98% job placement thing.. the school considers a student graduating and getting a job at gamestop or best buy as a success for them. so generally, once the student gets out of school and those rediculous loans start coming in, they need a job, so any job they get in ANYTHING related to the field, they count as job placement from them.
i had actually gotten an internship (with some crap company but it was my first so i wasnt complaining), through a friend of mine at school. the career services people came to me and had me sign a paper saying they got me the internship. when in fact they had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
in general. these schools are terrible and you'll hear this thousands of times but it really is what you put into it. im not going to tell you not to attend a school because it does get you good experience, but thats if you actually apply yourself and dont sit down at a computer every day playing league of legends and bullshitting watching youtube videos and being on 4chan.
there's my rant. hope it helps
About the only good thing I can say about AiP, not having gone there, is that they appear to be regionally accredited.
In fact, I find that so far, most of my classes: Have taught me only the most trivial of things. And: Have nothing to do with my major.
Of course, this could just be so far.
One more thing- They should let you skip to classes that will challenge you. Because that would alleviate many of my issues.
I'm finishing my first year, and seriously considering walking out. But I already have 1/3 my debt racked up- and for no degree, well, it's a rape-off (rip-off)...
It did bring me to LA, though- which is good. It's getting me to branch out. But I'm too busy with this awful unrelated classwork to find time to work on actual game art, or my portfolio. Which is not cool at all. I mean, Matte painting? Algebra? 2D Animation?
Seems like they tell everyone the same lies, too. I recall them saying they replaced the computers every year. Yeah, it's a lie. These computers don't even display photoshop's cursor correctly. And the ball-mouses are clogged with who-knows-what from ages ago. It isn't really worth it. Especially in a field such as this where your work, and not your degree, is what matters.
P.S. This school has "GameWizards", where you go to make games in UDK with other people. And I've yet to see anything remotely nice come out of it. And at best, they create a quick walkthrough level, that isn't even complete.
Yeah, I would go back, not enter into college here, and move to LA, and work on my portfolio with a part-time job. Definitely. $100,000 will take me forever to pay off.
You had to do your own studying - college ain't a place to be spoon fed. If you don't learn how to study things yourself, then your college sucks. Because that's what you will do a lot later in your career - study things on your own.
Teachers ranged from awesome to total suck. You better figured out who rocks in the first year, before it's too late. I was lucky and I learned a lot.
Software - was fairly up to date. Then again back when I studied it was just Max, Maya, AE, PS, Flash, painter and Shockwave. Was enough for learning the basics.
I like the approach that they expose you to as many things as possible. AIFL used to have no entry folio. This means they expect total total noobs. It makes sense to expose them to as many different things as possible. Unfortunately this leaves little space for specialization. Personally I am thankful for that because it lets you explore different things - animation, modeling, lighting, etc. It took me easily over 2 years to figure out a) what I really love doing and b) what I was most skilled in. Also it helped me a lot to know about everything else what's going on in a production pipeline when I entered the industry. Much better imho than focusing to early and then all you know is your own specialization.
Demo reel: I agree. the preparation sucks. I had the same complaint - no specialization is stupid. Then again, you can expect that a local school which has ties to local businesses has to cater to these local businesses and when it's generalists they want...
Traditional art courses - they had some really good teacher there back then and plenty of courses. Sculpting, drafting, oil painting, life drawing, 2D animation, etc. nice! I also like the courses they had on cinematography (I wonder if they're still there)
Career services - waste of time, except for the resume classes. Being European I found this very useful to learn how US style resumes work. Everything else is rubbish. The placement numbers are clearly inflated soviet style (99% are for the great leader! huzzah!) But that's really obvious??? I mean, it's Florida! Everything is inflated - e.g. there's the world famous Marina Deli (in the dark corner of the nearby mall) and some world famous mexian restaurant, both I've never heard of before.
But all this was back ....10 years ago...shit I feel old now
My biggest gripe about AIP was the "filler courses"; some were life drawing ("drawing is fundamental") and some were cel animation ("it's your ticket into the field", lol). However, your alternative is, what, a major university? Take a few World History and Womyns Studies courses, and get back to us about how much better off THAT was for your artistic development.
Overall, whatever school you go to is less important than the amount of drive you relentlessly flood your projects with. School is the course, but you can't get to the finish line if you don't supply your own drive.
I loved my time at AiP. It really is a great school... *if* you put the time in. Though, the same can be said for most any school or major. You will see people skate along, passing with C's, simply because they turned in the assignment. Such is the nature of any art-centric major. Don't be one of those people. You will have a great pool of talent to pull from. You will be challenged, on many levels. Pittsburgh itself is a wonderful city for any artist.
If you feel that college is the path you want to take, then AiP is not a bad choice. Good luck!
(p.s. Tell Styers I love him.
edit:
I'm confused as to how Life Drawing is a filler course, in your mind. AiP had amazing Life Drawing teachers, and offered Life Drawing sessions at least twice a week, for free. That, alone, helped me so very much during the first half of the major, where traditional/fundamentals were such a huge focus.
Also, the new Batman film will be filmed there, so you can be an extra
Say whaaaaaat?? I wanna be a guy that just walks in the background! Whens that goin down, or was that a joke. :shifty:
I don't get what you think is funny about that.
Yup, my friends who still live there stood in a massive queue all day to sign up for extra parts
As for AIP the thing which irked me the most was the psychology, English etc classes (I am afraid I can't remember exactly which ones we did now