Zpheres: Your Experience/Opinion
polycounter lvl 11
Hey All,
So, Zpheres: I think I'm sold on how effective a tool they can be for sketching just about any idea.
That said I'm wondering how they fit into your workflow, and also what issues, if any, you have seen while using them.
I've heard they can generate some poor topology, but it seams like this can be fixed by using the resmesh option which produces pretty reasonable topology in my experience, and of course, if your doing something with a very specific structure, like a face, then you can always retopo.
So, Zpheres: I think I'm sold on how effective a tool they can be for sketching just about any idea.
That said I'm wondering how they fit into your workflow, and also what issues, if any, you have seen while using them.
I've heard they can generate some poor topology, but it seams like this can be fixed by using the resmesh option which produces pretty reasonable topology in my experience, and of course, if your doing something with a very specific structure, like a face, then you can always retopo.
Replies
meshmixer is also awesome if you need holes/connecting bridges in your sculpt.
Wow. you don't ask alot..lol
1. I'll have a play in zbrush later, but i think you probably can. I'm not sure I would ever need to though. Creating zsphere models is a quick process so I wouldn't need to append new zspheres. I'd just create new. I'd be able to combine any subtools created with different zspheres though.
2. agreed. Use re-mesh or do a quick re-topo over the model.
3. Use re-mesh
4. lol...you'll want zb to animate and texture it for you next. Add "make character" button. You can use the original zsphere model as a rig though. But i'd never rig or animate a character in ZB anyway.
This is the result of classic (zb3) and zb4's new method, both with a density of 2.
cryrid yeah you are right the zSpheres in ZB4 are better, however they produce hard angles at joints, I would like it more smoothed (like the old method but with better mass)
I start with a rough set of spheres then generate the mesh, GoZ to change some topology or forms I know would be strange after adapting the skin and then head back into zbrush. Pretty fast way to mock something up and get to the fun part.
Is there no way to snap zpheres to axis or move along an axis away from the last sphere you put down? That always seems to cause me problems.
k. Just had a little mess about in ZB. It is possible to combine zsphere objects using unified skin to create geometry.
Combining zspheres together to create a new editable zsphere object isnt possible (i think)
1. create 2 sphere objects.
2. append one to the other.
3. use unified skin to create geo.
if you have a torso that needs connecting to legs, intersect the zspheres at the hips. etc.
I've done this, but only to use other zpheres as a guide to draw out an armature, but it was really tedious and didn't seam worth while. Probably just better eff defining your masses and then jumping into sculpting.
Using just a zsphere for the head without any facial features doesn't cut it; there's never enough resolution. Or at least I haven't gotten it to work right.
This is what I end up with before sculpting:
Is there any way to keep the loops for the eyes, mouth and nose from being so microscopic? I use the move brush but then eventually the topology just ends up being terrible.
Plus all of the skinning settings too to further complicate it. I guess the answer is in front of me: fuck around with the switches and flip the right ones to get something that doesn't look like death. More time wasted fighting software. :susp:
What's the preferred method for this kind of thing? Just fuck around until it works, I suppose. I'm not using classic skinning because it just looks like ass.
EDIT: Here's what I've sculpted from that (I did little work on the face since I made it a Polymesh 3d, that's why she looks like Homo Erectus):
The topology just seems off to me in the face. Is it workable?
Instead of using zspheres to create the eyes/nose/mouth, you could just try to create the overall head shape. Then isolate a face using the selection tools (lasso would probably be easiest), and use the Tool: Geometry: Edgeloop tool from there.
I used Zsketch once for a KD miniature I made which was humanoid. I was able to do the zsketch in symmetry, then using the underlying zsphere skeleton I was able to then pose him and then adaptive skin him to start sculpting on him for the final high.
The best thing I have ever used Zspheres for is making twisted trees or roots. Really, really handy and I rarely have to retopo.
Tried it but didn't get a good result; from the way I've set up the Zspheres, there's still way too many polys everywhere else but the head when I subdivide with Zspheres2:
This is what I get.
That facial topology is terrible for sculpting the cheekbones, around mouth/eyes etc, and I still ended up with inadequate resolution:
Those polys under the nose are a problem area.
But everything else is great. Complete opposite with classic skinning: face comes out good, everything else an 'angry blob'.
That works very good. So, I think Zspheres are great. Zspheres ae not about topology. Zbrush has other tools for that.
that ^^ precisely that.
The remesh part doesn't ever work well for me. Fingers always get mutilated.
This is a workflow problem that I haven't solved for myself yet, and something I find frustrating about zbrush sometimes as a newbie. I thought I could get sculpting results with zspheres, but according to you I'd need to retopo anyway with zspheres before I even sculpt anything.
Don't get me wrong, I have just done that workflow for another nonhuman character though (rough form in sculptris> retopo) and I don't have a problem with it. But that's what I was trying to avoid this time because I was under the impression you could use Zspheres as a base mesh, sculpt, and then retopo.
From reading the Scott Spencer human sculpting book as well as plenty of tutorials online I was under the impression that after you set up the Zspheres armature you could use that as a base sculpting mesh. I hope I didn't read it correctly, otherwise it's kind of misleading.
What is a good workflow, then, for getting a good quick basemesh to use for sculpting out a human before you have to worry about any retopology?
I guess starting in sculptris like I did before. But then I don't get to have the usefulness of zspheres in roughing out proportions. :susp:
All I want to do was practice anatomy sculpting and improve my art skillz, not start the whole retopo planning phase.
I do most of my retopo for bodies using wrapit in max as it's easier to get regular loops than in zbrush but for complex stuff i retopo in zbrush, export, stick it all together in max and then take back to zbrush for the rest of the sculpt
http://duncanfraser.deviantart.com/art/Zsphere-Base-Head-Workflow-252008783
It looks like he starts with the Zspheres and sculpts away, no pre-retopo. Ever since I started learning Zbrush I've read things like this online. The Scott Spencer book also goes off on this assumption.
Can't blame me for being a bit misled when I read stuff like that.
I'm starting to conclude that, while that workflow can get you some results, sooner or later you'd have to retopo midway through to finish the sculpting.
I really don't like the idea of having to retopo a face sculpt midway through though.
I guess it's a trade off; have good proportions with zspheres but have to retopo midway, or start with sculptris or dynamesh and spend more time on proportions but have good sculpting topology.
Retopology is going to be the best bet if you want to get the absolute best topology and a consistant resolution out of it. Push the zspheres as far as you can to get all the volumes established, and you'll be left with something that should be quicker to retopologize and waiting for the detailing.
It depends on what you mean by sculpting-results. You can easily get in what could be considered sculpting results to some with zspheres, but if your idea is to do a full body at pore-level detail then there's going to be some complications unless your machine can push for the extra subdivision levels to handle it (HD Geo perhaps).
Zspheres can let you quickly flesh out a base to begin sculpting from scratch, but the topology is still automatic and so it can often need some manual loving.