The TF2 Polishing Project.
(Apologies if this is in the wrong section, I'm pretty new here.)
[Update: 2/06/11]
The list of things that need doing has been added to the community page, and can be viewed here:
Part 1:
Part 2:
[Update: 1/06/11]
Due to some concerns raised here, allow me to clarify something:
I will state here and now that no third party models, textures or sounds will be modified in any way without the express permission of the original authors, and as all the third party content in Tf2 is of a high quality, I cannot see this happening. The aim of this project is to fix the old animation rigs to better suit new models and eliminate clipping issues, to modify old Valve models to bring their quality/consistency on par with the rest of the game, and to possibly give a spit-shine on a few things such new animations and sounds for weapons that don't have them.
Hope that clears up a few negative suspicions. This is a project aimed at giving the third party content in TF2 the attention to detail and integration it deserves. No one likes seeing wonderful models ruined because they don't quite fit with old animation rigs that Valve refuse to modify.
It has been too long now that little texture, model, animation and sound defects have been in Team-Fortress 2. So many things that would be so easy to fix, and yet have gone unfixed, sometimes for years on end. Things as simple as the Grenade Launcher having 6 cylinders, but only 4 rounds in its ammo pool, and the fact that the Ambassador doesn't actually have a barrel, just a solid wall of metal.
I am a beginner/intermediate modeller. I don't know all that much, but I do know enough to get a lot of this done. However, I need help! If this project is even going to get off the ground, we need some people with a few bits of core knowledge. You don't need to be a masterful animator or modeller. All we are doing (for now) is fixing some bugs. However, if we can get that done, we may start on bigger things.
I am looking for:
If you are one of these people, and you, like me, are sick of these tiny but glaring visual and audio defects to TF2, add me on Steam and/or join the Steam Group I've made for this project:
My Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Veerdinwraith
Polishing Project group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2PolishingProject
Primary goals:
Secondary goals:
Possible future goals:
So, if anyone is interested in helping out, or just wants to tag along to see how things work out, contact me, join the group, do whatever. This is an open project. Anyone who is interested and feels they can do something to help is more than welcome to join.
Thanks for reading.
[Update: 2/06/11]
The list of things that need doing has been added to the community page, and can be viewed here:
Part 1:
Part 2:
[Update: 1/06/11]
Due to some concerns raised here, allow me to clarify something:
I will state here and now that no third party models, textures or sounds will be modified in any way without the express permission of the original authors, and as all the third party content in Tf2 is of a high quality, I cannot see this happening. The aim of this project is to fix the old animation rigs to better suit new models and eliminate clipping issues, to modify old Valve models to bring their quality/consistency on par with the rest of the game, and to possibly give a spit-shine on a few things such new animations and sounds for weapons that don't have them.
Hope that clears up a few negative suspicions. This is a project aimed at giving the third party content in TF2 the attention to detail and integration it deserves. No one likes seeing wonderful models ruined because they don't quite fit with old animation rigs that Valve refuse to modify.
It has been too long now that little texture, model, animation and sound defects have been in Team-Fortress 2. So many things that would be so easy to fix, and yet have gone unfixed, sometimes for years on end. Things as simple as the Grenade Launcher having 6 cylinders, but only 4 rounds in its ammo pool, and the fact that the Ambassador doesn't actually have a barrel, just a solid wall of metal.
I am a beginner/intermediate modeller. I don't know all that much, but I do know enough to get a lot of this done. However, I need help! If this project is even going to get off the ground, we need some people with a few bits of core knowledge. You don't need to be a masterful animator or modeller. All we are doing (for now) is fixing some bugs. However, if we can get that done, we may start on bigger things.
I am looking for:
- Texture artists who know how to digitally paint in TF2 style.
- Modellers who know how to compile/decompile TF2 models.
- Animators who know how to transfer animations between 3DSMax and TF2.
- Sound artists who are capable of recording and/or editing new sounds.
- Anyone else who feels they have something that could help in any way.
If you are one of these people, and you, like me, are sick of these tiny but glaring visual and audio defects to TF2, add me on Steam and/or join the Steam Group I've made for this project:
My Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Veerdinwraith
Polishing Project group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2PolishingProject
Primary goals:
- Fix model inconsistencies.
- Fix clipping issues.
- Add missing animation details.
- Add missing model details.
- Fix texture defects.
- Fix sound issues.
Secondary goals:
- Add unique animations for some weapons.
- Refine models, animations, sounds and textures.
- Add new sounds for some weapons.
Possible future goals:
- New taunts for weapons.
- Adding in missing details for some aspects of the game (Sydney Sleeper's missing dart model, etc..)
So, if anyone is interested in helping out, or just wants to tag along to see how things work out, contact me, join the group, do whatever. This is an open project. Anyone who is interested and feels they can do something to help is more than welcome to join.
Thanks for reading.
Replies
By "errors" I mean inconstancies within the game and plain shoddy work on Valve's part.
Things like all the Revolver unlocks for the Spy having incomplete reload animations, and some weapons like the Loch-and-Load and Warriors Spirit having severe clipping issues.
Most of the edits will boil down to animation tweaks to fix incomplete animation cycles and model constancy edits between world models and view models.
whoow, good luck with your recruitment
(that cat has a cleft lip)
Until you've done some real freelancing or worked in a studio you really have no idea of the schedule and pacing of things. I had alot of mod experience before getting into the biz, mods are a leisurely stroll through the park while working in a studio environment can sometimes feel like running downhill.
Rolling downhill. In a tire caught on fire.
I know that when I think of shoddy developers, I immediately think of Valve :rolleyes:
Do you have documentation for these issues? Is there a youtube video I can watch of these?
That's the real question...
Also kill the nails in the dispenser.
Also uncensor the engineer. he needs to say 'god damn god damn goddamnit' he really needs to be polished because valve need better writers than children.
You're on your way to 'fixing' TF2!
He's not moving a vert and claiming the model is his. He's fixing inconsistencies and graphical issues. If someone is offended by that, then it's their problem for being ridiculous. I'd be extremely thankful if something I made was buggy, and someone else fixed it for me.
Really? He wants to fix bugs and improve the quality of a game he enjoys. What part of that seems unreasonable to you?
I don't accept that. Valve shouldn't push out these sort of minor graphic issues so consistently AND leave them there for years. I was plain embarrassed for Valve when they released the pain train with the bottle's taunt. And rather than it becoming the occasional hiccup, it became a trend in almost every single update since. The Loch N' Load reloads into thin air for crying out loud. I love Valve, and I love the TF2 updates, but holy shit are they sloppy these days.
No change in tone or argument will change that fact.
:::::
For PatrickL and anyone reading this:
Does it matter? The sloppy work I mean.
All of their titles have been a hit. They're fun to play. And are hugely successful by any comparison. In the grand scheme of things the sloppiness is infrequent and has zero effect on the end result.
This is really a general opinion I have with all games when it comes to game art: Mistakes and bad choices happen. When the entire package consists of fun gameplay, quality art, composition, pacing, narrative, and emotional contrasts you really shouldn't take such offense to errors and mistakes. Learn from them and apply what you've learned back in to your own art so these discussions don't happen over your contributions.
You're absolutely right, Adam. I agree that a buggy animation or clipping hat doesn't make TF2 any less fun. I'm not trying to say they're ruining TF2 by putting these types of minor graphical bugs in with their updates. Lord knows it hasn't stopped me from clocking in hour after hour.
But what happened to the standards in Valve's TF2 room? What happened to taking pride in the quality of their work?
In my opinion, the reason these bugs shouldn't exist isn't because they NEED to be fixed, but rather just the opposite: Because they're minor, unimportant things. When a developer goes the extra mile to make sure each item is compatible with another, it's something 99% of people don't notice because it's subtle, but as soon as one new item comes in that clips, everyone will notice and wonder why immediately because it falls beneath the level of quality previously established.
Continuing to lower that bar offends some really self-entitled people, I know... But to me? It's just sad to see such an awesome studio I love settling for a standard that is beneath them.
Show us all that.
Show us what you can do, and what you have done in the past of that standard.
BTW, "us" is a sort of metaphor. What I really mean is, are all these defects documented ? Do you really think it's worth the effort ?
It's not a matter of claiming responsibility for the work that bothers me about it. It's someone else's work and I don't feel it's right to modify and redistribute it without express permission. Sometimes artists do things for specific reasons. I've seen plenty of threads here debating certain "good" practices. Anyways, that's just my feeling on it. I'm fine with being ridiculous.
It's likely that if you did a decent job of the improvements, Valve would quite likely implement them into the game.
This is what Valve dose, and thats why there games are so good.
no.
For the record, no models made by third party modders will be modified in any way without the express permission of the creator. What this mod aims to mainly do is fix bugs that occur with new models and old animations, EG: the Boston Basher clips with the Scout's hand, and thus one of the objectives on the list is to adjust the hand rig for the Scout in the Boston Basher animations. The model itself will be untouched.
Same goes for things like the Warriors Spirit, Loch-and-Load and Your Eternal Reward - We aim to modify their current animation files and possibly create new animations for them. The weapon models themselves will be untouched unless we get permission from the authors. However, as most of the third party model errors simply come from clipping issues with Valve's animations, that will likely be unnecessary.
As for Valve's models, again, all we will be doing is fixing consistency issues between models and making things a bit more sensible. Cutting two cylinders from the Grenade Launcher, righting the mirroring issues with Natscha, Giving the Ambassador an actual barrel and so forth. And Valve is, of course, at liberty to refuse these changes if they want.
Sorry for the confusion my original post caused, I can see how some of you might have taken the proposal as "lol we're gonna' remodel everything you guys did to suit our likings!" because that is most certainly not the case.
Once again, no third party models or textures in the game will be modified without express permission from the creators of said models. And as all the third party models and textures are all of a very high quality already, I doubt that will even be needed.
While I personally agree with you (TF Classic forever), I can't deny that it's a fun game, especially given how successful it is with everyone else.
I'll just leave this here...
TF2 was fun before they started adding everything, hats/addons/etc... plain ol' TF2.. I miss those days. Everyone was even, you didn't have to play to 'unlock' certain weapons, you got it all out of the gate. As a casual gamer, I stopped playing when they introduced that stuff, most of my friends did too.
You mean OCD I'm guessing.
LOL. I agree. Never did get into it. Was beaten down every time I tried a game.
When it "reloads" the bullets are not ejected nor reloaded into the cylinders, he just flips the weapon open, glares at it for a second and then flips it closed again.
All the Revolver unlocks are like that.
Oh, and the Ambassador's barrel is solid, and that is plainly obvious every time it's reloaded.
To everyone else who clearly has no interest in this project, no-one's forcing you to take part or support any of this, I only posted the message here because I knew a lot of talented modellers are here and figured where better place to look? If you're not interested then that's fine, not up to me, but I don't see why you have to post Photoshopped piles of cats everywhere.
Considering this started two days ago and I've had a uni exam yesterday and a ton of work today? As far as I know, not much. I'm currently still organising things, putting a list together of all the stuff that needs doing and what priority it has (should be up within a few hours if anyone is actually interested.) We do have at least one modeller who has been looking into the blatant stuff, no word back from them yet, though.
It's not the subject of the mod or what he's tweaking - it's the "oh those lazy devs, too lazy to fix all these obvious problems that could be corrected in all the free time they have" kind of tone.
What's worse, is when you put a month into fixing stuff the fans read the patch notes and go "WTF!? why are they wasting time fixing stuff when we should be getting new content!!!"
and what's the deal with someone mentioning TFC everytime there's something about TF2, it's like a t-shirt that says "OLD SCHOOL" and has a picture of an N64 controller on it. Team Fortress (for Quake) baby!
Can't please everybody. But again, some of the visual and audio bugs that exist shouldn't take more than a few hours to fix at most. Spending a month to fix some visual bugs would upset people, sure, but an overnight patch during a quiet period would be gladly appreciated. Or at least receive fewer complaints, I should think.
Regardless, by taking up the project as a community thing, no one can accuse Valve of "wasting time" on the visual aspect of the game.
All in all, the community is full of people whining, but not that many who are willing to actually do something about that whining. Yeah, I do think Valve have been a bit lazy with some of the things in the game, and you can disagree with me on that if you want, but that's not what this project is about.
Regardless, to anyone who is interested, I've added the list of things that need to be done and their priorities to the community page I linked in the first post. So yeah, if anyone is curious, it's there.
20 minutes huh?
I have 10 years industry experience as a modeler and I can tell you your estimate is off.
Why don't you integrate their fixes then? I don't ask that in a snarky way, but in an honest way. Why don't you?
A reason people are posting in here is really more of a reality check. Over the years there have been many many many mods started on these boards. Very few have progressed, much less succeeded, and most have failed. It seems to me that there is a lot of vocal people here that see this mod and ask, 'why?'. Why would a modeler really want to take part of this? Why would an animator really want to take part of this? If you finish this, what will they have to show?
As an employer, I won't be impressed if someone showed me that they 'fixed' the number of barrels from 6 to 4. I won't be impressed if an animator showed me he 'tweaked' some TF2 animations.
The type of people that usually get things done in mods are those hungry for jobs. Their time is valuable. At the end of this project they'll have nothing useful to show employers.
The other type are OCD type like yourself. They see an 'issue' and can't let it go.
Just giving you a heads up that it might be best to team yourself up with hobbyists on the TF2 forums than here.
I'm currently in the process of contacting the authors, if they give me permission, then I will.
Why? Well, mainly, so that they can help make TF2 look and sound nicer, or to reap the rewards that Valve usually gives out to successful community content. Or just as something to do in their free time. I, for example, just finished first semester in uni and apart from work, I have nothing much to do for 2 months. I know I'm not the only one in that position either.
What about if they put on their r
tf2 is not the sort of game to favour accuracy over 'bang for buck'
From what I can remember (may not be true, my memory is pretty vague) early in TF2's development, the Grenade Launcher actually had an ammo pool of 6, and it was later changed to 4 for balancing reasons, but the model remained the same.
Regardless, I've used the fixed version with 4 cylinders, and it looks fine to me. If anything, it looks a lot sleeker and less cluttered than the 6 pipe version.
i am quoting this post because it contains a very very high level of truthiness. tf2 was a fantastic game in 2008, and it's really unfortunate that it turned into what it is now.
Well like you said, people who sign up to this will likely be hobbyists and that's fine by me, I'm a hobbyist after all. And yeah, there is a lot that TF2 needs in terms of coding, but I'm sticking to what I know and what I notice, I know about art, and I notice the graphical and audio bugs in TF2. Whereas with coding I wouldn't know where to begin. Plus, coders are an absolute pain to find, one of my earliest mod projects completely fell apart because it needed coders and none wanted to sign up.
This, however, will not require much coding for the most part. It just requires people who know how to actually modify TF2, another reason I made one of the threads here.
That's highly a matter of opinion. I'm personally sick of all the promos and the general sloppy nature of recent updates, but I'm still enjoying the game immensly, regardless of all that.
But this is also an unrelated subject. This thread is about improving the visual and audio side of TF2, that's all.
This ^
I saw a large part of your fixes were that. This just tells me that there might be some technical limitations for weapons.
Also, on tweaking reload animations and taunts:
Is there any limitations on those?
Are you planning on having the animator make whatever animations they want or just flesh out the ones that exist?
Not trying to be harsh here, just wondering. It's all been quite unclear in your posts so far. When people ask you what have you done on it already, I think that's what they mean - show us your first fixed weapon, your first redone animation, and so on...
I'm aware that there are limitations, I've been fiddling with the models and textures of TF2 for a good while before I started this up, I know of several limits, but I know that work-arounds exist. I just don't know how to do them myself. And so I look for people who do.
As for taunts, what I would like is for some new ones, and I know that some people have created new taunts for characters, but it would probably be a bit more straightforward to simply modify current ones. Taunts are for later, right now I just want to get basic things done, clipping issues, model consistency, ect...
Uh... No, I have plenty of expirence with texture work, I am still at a beginner stage with 3D modelling but I know the basics of it and I have done some basic coding in relation to shaders and suchforth.
None of my more recent work is online at the moment, but if you're interested in my past work (all of it is about a year old now) I can give you some links. It's all to do with textures, I'm only just learning 3D work.