but we do have facts presented from one party. we also know that NeoGod is a frequent poster/member of the forum, and if he has evidence or opinion to the contrary, then he would/should certainly post them in order to prove his innocense. right?
i'm well aware that there could be circumstances that have caused things to spiral out of NeoGods control. however, the evidence presented AT THIS POINT, shows that he hasn't even stated to the client that he is unable to continue working on the project, or even that he feels the piece is "done". quite simply, the evidence presented AT THIS POINT, shows that NeoGod has simply disappeared (in the eyes of the client).
as soon as any other evidence points to any other scenario, then things would need to be re-evaluated. but as of right now, Perna you should use YOUR brain, and more importantly, use the evidence we have, not what we haven't.
precisely. if he had emailed at any point over the past 5 months and said "Dude, I'm sorry. I got so busy with school. I finished 3 of the models out of the 7 and I'll ftp them up for you. I'll throw some of the money back if you like but I got so hammered. my bad."
I'm a nice guy. I have thrown extra money to staff members when they needed it because I knew they were putting in good work on my project. I would have been legit happy with 3 models and I would have paid out to get one of the other modelers to finish up the other 4. I can take a loss IF it is explained to me.
Wreck, I think part of what you're doing is fine: posting to try and get in touch with Neo_God is fine. Asking people here who might know him to say "Hey Neo_God, you need to get in touch with Wreck." That's all well and good. I also applaud you on keeping an even tone.
I think you could have held back on the images and email addresses, etc. It's really a matter for you to resolve with Neo_God personally and is none of our business, and those details serve no purpose other than to try and shame him. As has been mentioned by others, if you have a contract, that should be your next step. That's the bit people are reacting negatively to. You don't need to air out the whole story in public. It's not really helping your case.
Let me explain this so even the slower among us can understand.
Consider the following wholly constructed case:
Artist does work for client. Client is unprofessional and unreasonable. They ask for countless revisions, they don't keep to agreements. It's costing the artist too much to continue. He's spent way too much time on the project and has stretched far beyond his obligations. After attempts to console the client and come to a mutual agreement about resolve, he discontinues the work and keeps his advance to cover part of his costs.
Client freaks out and demands he finish the work at client terms. Artist makes his stance clear and says he has no more to add as the client is not willing to come to a compromise. Artist cuts his losses, and moves on to other work.
Client freaks out even further and starts a public smear campaign again the artist. Artist loses contracts and his reputation takes a huge dent. He suffers professionally and personally. He struggles financially because the client went out of their way to name and shame him, without reasonable cause.
I'm not saying this is what happened, I'm trying to make you understand, with your brain (try to use it), that since we do not have all the facts of the matter, we are in no position to jump to conclusions and hurt the career of a fellow artist.
Whether or not you are intellectually capable of understanding why there must be certain norms for professional conduct does not mean that those norms do not exist.
If the artist did in fact just take the money and run, there are legal measures in place to deal with that. These are not the middle ages and a witch hunt is not the appropriate course of action.
Wreck: You'll be lucky if the artist decides to finish any work for you after you've done so much to harm him professionally. If you decide to take legal action at this point, he might very well have a stronger case for reparations against you than you do against him.
Hahahahaha... Seriously, I should use my brain? You're going with insults because I think your comparison is bullshit? Please, perna, don't go emo because I provide a contrary view. Where I'm from, men can talk directly, without emotional pampering. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities.
Client paid for work.
Employee worked and delivered.
Client continued to work with employee.
Employee took payment and 'disappeared'.
Client has tried to contact employee but gets no response.
Employee continues to have an online presence.
Client calls him out after 5 months of silence.
I find this thread to be justified.
Agreed. As a former freelancer who earned every dime via contract work, I've no problem with this. If the situation was reversed and a PC freelancer got stiffed by a client, people here would be happy to track the guy down.
I love the fact that Wreck is now 'freaking out', but when you look through his posts he has been perfectly calm and reasonable, when its other pc'ers that are kicking up a huge shit storm. Am I the only one seeing this?
edit: Perna, the hell you talking about? You actually said 'Client freaks out' then you tell us you werent talking about Wreck yet the entire situation (in your words) is about this exact one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreckZ28 and "client freaking out".
I never said those words about you. You should go back, re-read, and get your facts straight.
Falsely accusing a guy in public, possibly costing him future clients/work/income over a misunderstanding - to me - is just as bad. I'm not defending the guy, but I would definitely hate it if of my former clients were to air out dirty laundry like this (provided there were dirty laundry...wink wink.) It seems like Alex did a douche move, but you need to give him the benefit of the doubt - there are plenty of other, and more professional, ways to contact the guy or track him down rather than screaming it from the rooftops.
Refusing to return emails for five months would be one hell of a misunderstanding. From what I've read, Wreck was about as polite as anyone could be in this situation. He didn't storm in here accusing Neo_God of stealing from him - he explained it pretty calmly and just asked for help. Should have done it without posting Neo_God's contact info and emails, but there's nothing wrong with the intent.
If Neo_God really is screwing people out of money, then this information SHOULD cost him future clients/work/income. Why shouldn't it? Wouldn't you want to prevent a freelance scammer out there with Polycount ties from taking people's money?
If this all is some horrible error, that sucks but they can sort it out, Adam can delete the thread. Everything gets patched up, no one loses. If this is NOT an error, then Neo_God is screwing Wreck out of hundreds/thousands of dollars. Not comparable at all, IMO - an angry thread on PC might hurt some feelings, but money pays the rent.
I love the fact that Wreck is now 'freaking out', but when you look through his posts he has been perfectly calm and reasonable, when its other pc'ers that are kicking up a huge shit storm. Am I the only one seeing this?
I actually agree with this. I wouldn't have posted the emails/contact info, but I would agree that Wreck has actually conducted himself pretty calmly all things considered.
On the flip side: Perna raises even better points. We do not know all the information from NG's point of view so there's no sense in speculating.
Refusing to return emails for five months would be one hell of a misunderstanding. From what I've read, Wreck was about as polite as anyone could be in this situation. He didn't storm in here accusing Neo_God of stealing from him - he explained it pretty calmly and just asked for help. Should have done it without posting Neo_God's contact info and emails, but there's nothing wrong with the intent.
If Neo_God really is screwing people out of money, then this information SHOULD cost him future clients/work/income. Why shouldn't it? Wouldn't you want to prevent a freelance scammer out there with Polycount ties from taking people's money?
If this all is some horrible error, that sucks but they can sort it out, Adam can delete the thread. Everything gets patched up, no one loses. If this is NOT an error, then Neo_God is screwing Wreck out of hundreds/thousands of dollars. Not comparable at all, IMO - an angry thread on PC might hurt some feelings, but money pays the rent.
If Neo_God showed up right now and said "Wreck, I was on a long vacation over memorial day. Sorry i didn't see this thread, can you take it down and I'll get you your money or finish up your model work." I'd still be cool with getting it all 5 months late. I'm not out to hold a grudge or tar and feather anyone that works in my field.
Point is, I waited 5 months to come here and go public. I don't know how patient some people on here expectt a client or an artist in my position to be. You keep saying "Handle it out of the publics eye". Well, I've been trying that since October of 2010. Now it's in the publics eye and you're trying to throw political correctness at me?
A little bit of me just wants to get it all fixed up. A little bit of me is a tiny bit frustrated\pissed at having to come here and post this thread. A little bit of me is surprised that even 1 artist on this forum feels I've acted out of line.
I removed his email from the original post days ago. (Even though his email is public access if you search his website on google) I kept up the diolouge between us posted because I feel it's totally revelant that others take me seriously when I tell my story. This all has happened over a 8 month period so I'm not going to adlib what he has said to me, and what I have said to him. Instead, I pasted it clean and clear so people aren't suggestive that they may not be getting the accurate conversations.
Replies
precisely. if he had emailed at any point over the past 5 months and said "Dude, I'm sorry. I got so busy with school. I finished 3 of the models out of the 7 and I'll ftp them up for you. I'll throw some of the money back if you like but I got so hammered. my bad."
I'm a nice guy. I have thrown extra money to staff members when they needed it because I knew they were putting in good work on my project. I would have been legit happy with 3 models and I would have paid out to get one of the other modelers to finish up the other 4. I can take a loss IF it is explained to me.
I think you could have held back on the images and email addresses, etc. It's really a matter for you to resolve with Neo_God personally and is none of our business, and those details serve no purpose other than to try and shame him. As has been mentioned by others, if you have a contract, that should be your next step. That's the bit people are reacting negatively to. You don't need to air out the whole story in public. It's not really helping your case.
Hahahahaha... Seriously, I should use my brain? You're going with insults because I think your comparison is bullshit? Please, perna, don't go emo because I provide a contrary view. Where I'm from, men can talk directly, without emotional pampering. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities.
Agreed. As a former freelancer who earned every dime via contract work, I've no problem with this. If the situation was reversed and a PC freelancer got stiffed by a client, people here would be happy to track the guy down.
edit: Perna, the hell you talking about? You actually said 'Client freaks out' then you tell us you werent talking about Wreck yet the entire situation (in your words) is about this exact one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreckZ28
and "client freaking out".
I never said those words about you. You should go back, re-read, and get your facts straight.
Refusing to return emails for five months would be one hell of a misunderstanding. From what I've read, Wreck was about as polite as anyone could be in this situation. He didn't storm in here accusing Neo_God of stealing from him - he explained it pretty calmly and just asked for help. Should have done it without posting Neo_God's contact info and emails, but there's nothing wrong with the intent.
If Neo_God really is screwing people out of money, then this information SHOULD cost him future clients/work/income. Why shouldn't it? Wouldn't you want to prevent a freelance scammer out there with Polycount ties from taking people's money?
If this all is some horrible error, that sucks but they can sort it out, Adam can delete the thread. Everything gets patched up, no one loses. If this is NOT an error, then Neo_God is screwing Wreck out of hundreds/thousands of dollars. Not comparable at all, IMO - an angry thread on PC might hurt some feelings, but money pays the rent.
I think the message is clear: There's an APB out for Neo_god by Wreck and some of you do not agree with the matter at which the APB was created.
I actually agree with this. I wouldn't have posted the emails/contact info, but I would agree that Wreck has actually conducted himself pretty calmly all things considered.
On the flip side: Perna raises even better points. We do not know all the information from NG's point of view so there's no sense in speculating.
yup yup.
Point is, I waited 5 months to come here and go public. I don't know how patient some people on here expectt a client or an artist in my position to be. You keep saying "Handle it out of the publics eye". Well, I've been trying that since October of 2010. Now it's in the publics eye and you're trying to throw political correctness at me?
A little bit of me just wants to get it all fixed up. A little bit of me is a tiny bit frustrated\pissed at having to come here and post this thread. A little bit of me is surprised that even 1 artist on this forum feels I've acted out of line.
I removed his email from the original post days ago. (Even though his email is public access if you search his website on google) I kept up the diolouge between us posted because I feel it's totally revelant that others take me seriously when I tell my story. This all has happened over a 8 month period so I'm not going to adlib what he has said to me, and what I have said to him. Instead, I pasted it clean and clear so people aren't suggestive that they may not be getting the accurate conversations.
Decided there wasn't any good in prolonging the thread
yes