The face looks a little alien, mostly in the eye region, other than that this looks quite flawless to me (not a character artist haha) but seriously, very nice. If you are going to give her a sniper rifle and she is supposed to be in disguise, perhaps consider a foldup rifle of some sort, in "The Day of the Jackal" he used a fold up sniper rifle that was very small and basically composed of a sight, pipe (barrel) and stock which held one bullet inside. He placed it into the form of crutches and each part of the crutch was part of the gun, it was pretty cool, one shot one kill kind of deal, here it is
She actually looks wall-eyed in the textured picture, which could be part of the problem. The eyebrows might need to be a little closer together as well. The jaw seems fine, but I do agree the cheekbones need to be softened up, normally people who are Asian or Asian mixtures don't have very pronounced cheekbones. Besides that the anatomy is looking really nice, same goes for the texture.
Everything seems like it's getting there anatomy wise. If you're considering to use this for animation or any projects related to publicly selling your idea I wouldn't consider having agent 48 as a final name. As it's copyrighted by IO interactive in their first title Hitman:Codename 47 for the appearance of clone assassin that was to succeed Agent 47.
Hmm there was something very alien about that face but I couldn't exactly put it into words... so I liquified it in photoshop to see if I could make it look more human to me (be warned; I am no character artist )
I think it looks more human... Faces are so hard
So anyway what I learnt from this exercise is that I thought her overall pose, the way her head is tilted and how skinny she was also contributed to her alien look. But the main thing was her eyes and the elongated shape of her head. But please don't take this as expert advice, I am just trying to figure it out myself and using your work to do so
:poly124: Dude... maybe she looks alien purely because:
- uncanny valley? Is getting there!
- she has no hair
- the ears are not in the most optimum place
Ear on a more profile view...
- she has gaunt annorexic jawline and cheek "fat". The asian references, they have plumpish soft skin... the jaw outlines are rounded and less boney?
- The eyebrows need moving inline with the inner eye and the outer nostril and the outer lip. Trace the "zone", yours moves outwards on an angle and I think moving that "zone" to be angled more inwards from the front view and that fixes that, if it needs fixing at all. Hope that makes sense.
This piece is lovely work so far. I had a deeper think on this as I know you are very close to getting this perfect, the body sculpts and texture work so far IMO are fantastic.
Keep at it, keep updating
Now her ass looks gigantic, I think it's just the way the dress is falling or something... it could be that her waist is too skinny causing her front to look huge, she's looking very hippy though *thumbs up* but i'm not sure if the alienness has been fixed or not yet, would need to see the color on her again
Her eyes still look a tad far apart. I probably did not expect this design for her super curvy body and the "agent" title, I thought she would be dramatic.
This is very well done
Wow thats really good texture work... And the normal maps are really well baked. On a slightly creepy note, she looks quite like my dads ex wife wierd...
Correct me if I'm wrong 7mch, but is this for Staffordshire University's 2nd year body modelling module? I think I saw some of your stuff on the staffs digital academy and yours was definitely some of the best work on that module.
I'm a year above you currently finishing up my final year.
Anyway, looks absolutely ace. I know it's a bit late, but I think the legs look a little too big at the bottom, and the face is sorta letting it down, I think. Can't exactly put my finger on why, as it looks fine close up.. But in the full body shots, the face looks a little odd.
Out of interest, how did you go about adding the dots on the dress?
It took me ages to pose the character and model the SVD. Finally its finished, and Im glad that I wont touch it again.:D!
Ive learned a lot from this little project, and definitely will take your feedback into account on my next character.
You've got a great render here and the pose looks fine, the lighting does make it look like her foot is floating in front of the concrete rather than on a block of it, but most disappointing of all is that you put all this work into it only to show a back view shot of her, i'd really like to see a front perspective beauty render for this piece, what did you do your rendering in? I love the feel of the image!
Yeah, the left foot looks like it is just floating out there in the air.
It is also a shame that after all that effort you spent on the face, getting it to look like a certain ethnicity, etc. that you can't see it in the final render.
Also, by posing her on broken concrete and the like, paired with her outfit, she now looks less like an incognito assassin and more like a freedom fighter in some war-torn country.
Ok. This isn't a jibe against Polycount forum, this place is full of amazing artists but I think its important to filter some of the critique on this particular character model to what is relevant to the brief. As someone who is also on this module at the moment I have seen the brief and many of the artists here haven't. An artist can often want everything to be like how fashion designers want their models to be, a little too perfect. In this case I would call it "James Bond syndrome" the word Assassin as been seen and maybe some have bypassed what you set in the brief for this character.
One of the things I personally find refreshing about this character is how she is meant to be a real woman, non suspecting assassin. There should be flaws somewhere if she is to realistically fit the bill and as you said shes got that hippy thing going on. Real ordinary people are all shapes and sizes, there is nothing anatomically incorrect about this character in my honest opinion. What's important is she matches the brief perfectly.
Theres basically always a danger in everyones quest for beauty and perfection that the brief takes a back seat which in my opinion is bad production so keep up the good work.
Its just something I learned from my farther who is a modeler for Bentley, there are no artists at Bentley as they are stylists, if you call yourself and artist its about interpretation but if your a stylist its about perfecting the aesthetics, I notice most people here class themselves as artists
here I've added a bit more contrast on the iron bars under her left foot.
Adding the contrast helped a little, but I think the main problem is that the rebar is not as in-focus as the side of the foot appears to be, so even with more contrast, it appears to be further back in space than the shoe that is supposed to be resting on it.
Hey 7mch, I love your final shot. It looks awesome.
Hopefully I can get my model to similar standards... I wish!
You did a great job and definitely deserve a first.
Ok. This isn't a jibe against Polycount forum, this place is full of amazing artists but I think its important to filter some of the critique on this particular character model to what is relevant to the brief. As someone who is also on this module at the moment I have seen the brief and many of the artists here haven't. An artist can often want everything to be like how fashion designers want their models to be, a little too perfect. In this case I would call it "James Bond syndrome" the word Assassin as been seen and maybe some have bypassed what you set in the brief for this character.
One of the things I personally find refreshing about this character is how she is meant to be a real woman, non suspecting assassin. There should be flaws somewhere if she is to realistically fit the bill and as you said shes got that hippy thing going on. Real ordinary people are all shapes and sizes, there is nothing anatomically incorrect about this character in my honest opinion. What's important is she matches the brief perfectly.
Theres basically always a danger in everyones quest for beauty and perfection that the brief takes a back seat which in my opinion is bad production so keep up the good work.
But stylists are in saloons cutting hair.
The reference pictures of Asians so she slightly missed the concept. Real woman with flaws is one thing. Are you telling me Darwen and genetics and ear being half way down the neck is stylised and acceptable? As that is wrong. And that triangular zone i mentioned to help... is SKULL mate, are you arguing with skull? Is worth a mention at this point, science and bones and shit.
Overall, as it is an interesting brief to get given... I personally find this to be more librarian than hippy... and more sniper than assassin.
Good model and texture by the way 7mch,a bit of blueish colour in the spec map for skin next time.. I like the final pose.
She look is WAY too good condition to be handling a gun. I mean, she should have bruises, some dirt on her shirt and such.
Handling a gun means you have to have dirt on your shirt? Maybe I'm confused but I don't see the reasoning behind that.
Anyway, concerning the model there's a few nitpicks here and there I'd've liked to see implemented or changed, but I can totally understand wanting to move on to something else - and that presentation shot has a totally awesome feel to it, it really brings the character together with outfit and overall feeling. Sort of agree with the left foot being a bit odd, could maybe sharpen up whatever her foot is standing on so it's easier to distinguish from the rest of the base.
But I really dig what you did with it. A solid and welcome diversion from what I was expecting when this thread started. :thumbup:
I like the model and think the final shot shows it well. But something bothered me about the hands in your first post so I played around with the thumb and the index finger a little. I hope it's helpful.
The reference pictures of Asians so she slightly missed the concept. Real woman with flaws is one thing. Are you telling me Darwen and genetics and ear being half way down the neck is stylised and acceptable? As that is wrong. And that triangular zone i mentioned to help... is SKULL mate, are you arguing with skull? Is worth a mention at this point, science and bones and shit.
Overall, as it is an interesting brief to get given... I personally find this to be more librarian than hippy... and more sniper than assassin.
Good model and texture by the way 7mch,a bit of blueish colour in the spec map for skin next time.. I like the final pose.
nah Stylists are in design too and have you seen the real brief?
there is nothing anatomically incorrect about this character in my honest opinion. What's important is she matches the brief perfectly.
Just to note, if some people mention some anatomy stuff then it's worth a look at. It is down to opinions, but if there's a few of them and on polycount then there may need to be tweaking. The guys on here give crits so you can improve, even if it is an outstanding model already. I think that if there is an anatomical error then it could be fixed but still fit the brief perfectly.
nah Stylists are in design too and have you seen the real brief?
I'm interested actually, my years one is just make a character, show anatomy and muscle definition and all that. It's much different to that?
I don't imagine it getting anything other than top marks, but I would like to see something about the foot in the presentation, whether you put something more visible under it or something. It feels weird having it like that with the angle of the pipe to the foot, and how straight the foot is on a pipe. But it's mainly because it's hard to notice the pipe underneath. Good work tho.
The brief as I understand it is no clothes as they are only marking your ability to get right human form. Its just good practice to add stuff to it when your done for portfolios and so on.
What I was saying earlier about the anatomy is that it is common for a stylist to want beauty/perfection in a model bypassing human flaws which may be essential for the character.
The final shot came out great, I can't see anything there to crit...
To add my tuppence to the discussion, I also agree that asymmetry is the key to realistic character modeling, but I think the crits attributed to the original model were correct in that maybe there was something not right. Sometimes you can't pinpoint what exactly it is, but you just know it.. perhaps the eyes, perhaps the hips, maybe in the way the weight was distributed seemed incongruous? ...it's our job as artists to convince them it is i.e. getting the flaws to look believable.
Anyways, it's all subjective, but for me I think the proportions look good.
If you are trying to sell the image of an assassin, you go for assassin characteristics. Hitman or "47" can dress up as whatever he wants in the games, because his character is already established. Just giving a rifle to a girl raises a lot of questions. Why is she an assassin, and not a zombie apocalypse survivor? Or a guerrilla fighter? A terrorist?
Sure, for a realistic approach, an assassin (for a secret global organisation) should be able to blend in. To be a little girl, or a middle-aged, overweight man. But you need to invoke an image of a trained killer in the mind of the viewer.
That image says "girl with sniper rifle" and not "assassin".
The reference pictures of Asians so she slightly missed the concept
The references were of an Asian and a European girl and I wanted to mix the oriental beauty with some European characteristics.
They were both asian refs initally! The model is kooky cute though, i really like how it looks... a bit glamour model.
More sniper than assassin
You mean military sniper? Whoever wants to assassinate someone with a sniper rifle is still an assassin in my book.
In my book a sniper is a sniper, and an assassin is an assassin. I associate a sniper rifle with sniping people.
Assassination is to murder (a usually prominent person) by a sudden and/or secret attack, often for political reasons."
Could be posion dart umbrella, knife, garotte, bola, and a whole load of SILENT assassin esque things... an unsilenced sniper rifle also?
[/COLOR] "more librarian than hippy... and more sniper than assassin"
Its like saying that he looks more like a bird that an assassin.
More chicken than egg, more egg than ham?
HE does look like a bird... am i wrong???
WTF INTERNET!!! O.o Is that a bird? Yes. Do not test my eyes and bird spotting skills... they are impeccable!
Are you telling me Darwen and genetics and ear being half way down the neck is stylised and acceptable?
This sentence really confuses me. Darwin, genetics and the models ear are unacceptable?
Im not trying to argue, just want to make the best out of the crits I am receiving
Take the comment about ears... Imagine the knee cap... now lower that to the shin... and cover it with a boot. It seems more like a mutation, not style.... was just saying what i thought... dont sue me.
None of this is against you... this is brilliant work! Just trying to make you think.. how to push it further still.. just incase you wanted to do that on the next one and the next one..
Replies
I think it looks more human... Faces are so hard
So anyway what I learnt from this exercise is that I thought her overall pose, the way her head is tilted and how skinny she was also contributed to her alien look. But the main thing was her eyes and the elongated shape of her head. But please don't take this as expert advice, I am just trying to figure it out myself and using your work to do so
- uncanny valley? Is getting there!
- she has no hair
- the ears are not in the most optimum place
Ear on a more profile view...
- she has gaunt annorexic jawline and cheek "fat". The asian references, they have plumpish soft skin... the jaw outlines are rounded and less boney?
- The eyebrows need moving inline with the inner eye and the outer nostril and the outer lip. Trace the "zone", yours moves outwards on an angle and I think moving that "zone" to be angled more inwards from the front view and that fixes that, if it needs fixing at all. Hope that makes sense.
This piece is lovely work so far. I had a deeper think on this as I know you are very close to getting this perfect, the body sculpts and texture work so far IMO are fantastic.
Keep at it, keep updating
This is very well done
Is this graded?
I'm a year above you currently finishing up my final year.
Anyway, looks absolutely ace. I know it's a bit late, but I think the legs look a little too big at the bottom, and the face is sorta letting it down, I think. Can't exactly put my finger on why, as it looks fine close up.. But in the full body shots, the face looks a little odd.
Out of interest, how did you go about adding the dots on the dress?
It is also a shame that after all that effort you spent on the face, getting it to look like a certain ethnicity, etc. that you can't see it in the final render.
Also, by posing her on broken concrete and the like, paired with her outfit, she now looks less like an incognito assassin and more like a freedom fighter in some war-torn country.
One of the things I personally find refreshing about this character is how she is meant to be a real woman, non suspecting assassin. There should be flaws somewhere if she is to realistically fit the bill and as you said shes got that hippy thing going on. Real ordinary people are all shapes and sizes, there is nothing anatomically incorrect about this character in my honest opinion. What's important is she matches the brief perfectly.
Theres basically always a danger in everyones quest for beauty and perfection that the brief takes a back seat which in my opinion is bad production so keep up the good work.
Hopefully I can get my model to similar standards... I wish!
You did a great job and definitely deserve a first.
But stylists are in saloons cutting hair.
The reference pictures of Asians so she slightly missed the concept. Real woman with flaws is one thing. Are you telling me Darwen and genetics and ear being half way down the neck is stylised and acceptable? As that is wrong. And that triangular zone i mentioned to help... is SKULL mate, are you arguing with skull?
Overall, as it is an interesting brief to get given... I personally find this to be more librarian than hippy... and more sniper than assassin.
Good model and texture by the way 7mch,a bit of blueish colour in the spec map for skin next time.. I like the final pose.
Handling a gun means you have to have dirt on your shirt? Maybe I'm confused but I don't see the reasoning behind that.
Anyway, concerning the model there's a few nitpicks here and there I'd've liked to see implemented or changed, but I can totally understand wanting to move on to something else - and that presentation shot has a totally awesome feel to it, it really brings the character together with outfit and overall feeling. Sort of agree with the left foot being a bit odd, could maybe sharpen up whatever her foot is standing on so it's easier to distinguish from the rest of the base.
But I really dig what you did with it. A solid and welcome diversion from what I was expecting when this thread started. :thumbup:
nah Stylists are in design too and have you seen the real brief?
Just to note, if some people mention some anatomy stuff then it's worth a look at. It is down to opinions, but if there's a few of them and on polycount then there may need to be tweaking. The guys on here give crits so you can improve, even if it is an outstanding model already. I think that if there is an anatomical error then it could be fixed but still fit the brief perfectly.
I'm interested actually, my years one is just make a character, show anatomy and muscle definition and all that. It's much different to that?
I don't imagine it getting anything other than top marks, but I would like to see something about the foot in the presentation, whether you put something more visible under it or something. It feels weird having it like that with the angle of the pipe to the foot, and how straight the foot is on a pipe. But it's mainly because it's hard to notice the pipe underneath. Good work tho.
The model should follow an industry production pipeline and make use of good anatomy."
This is a great model but i do agree with the person who said the presentation should show all the hard work you put into the face.
What I was saying earlier about the anatomy is that it is common for a stylist to want beauty/perfection in a model bypassing human flaws which may be essential for the character.
To add my tuppence to the discussion, I also agree that asymmetry is the key to realistic character modeling, but I think the crits attributed to the original model were correct in that maybe there was something not right. Sometimes you can't pinpoint what exactly it is, but you just know it.. perhaps the eyes, perhaps the hips, maybe in the way the weight was distributed seemed incongruous? ...it's our job as artists to convince them it is i.e. getting the flaws to look believable.
Anyways, it's all subjective, but for me I think the proportions look good.
Looks like you didn't take into consideration the distortion of a camera lens when you used your reference.
nice progress though
Sure, for a realistic approach, an assassin (for a secret global organisation) should be able to blend in. To be a little girl, or a middle-aged, overweight man. But you need to invoke an image of a trained killer in the mind of the viewer.
That image says "girl with sniper rifle" and not "assassin".
None of this is against you... this is brilliant work! Just trying to make you think.. how to push it further still.. just incase you wanted to do that on the next one and the next one..