Character (heavily) inspired by Guild Wars
polycounter lvl 7
Latest Update: 4/3/2011
(I'll keep new updates here so people don't have to scroll through the crap)
This is the most recent WIP shots of v2. New face with color! w00t.
Hey guys,
First time posting here but I figured I should suck it up and get some feedback if I want to learn anything. This was a project I did last semester for a class, 2nd character I've done overall - still learning so any feedback would be great. Presentation, topology, capturing the look (yeah, she's covered in crap unlike the original), etc. Thanks for looking & for the input.
Some background info:
I love the art style and work from Guild Wars, so I made a character based off Kekai Kotaki's "Gunner" concept. It's not built to ArenaNet spec though (whatever that is), this mesh is on the heavy side. The first one, which has a few different maps is 14,207 tris. The second, where I cut some of the junk and combined pieces is 9,774, and the last LOD mesh is at 3,835.
Here's the original piece:
From this I worked up the model sheet
Models in 3DS Max
The original maps are like 7 different pieces, which I combined down into one map. Going clockwise from the top left, Diffuse->normal->spec color -> spec
(I'll keep new updates here so people don't have to scroll through the crap)
This is the most recent WIP shots of v2. New face with color! w00t.
Hey guys,
First time posting here but I figured I should suck it up and get some feedback if I want to learn anything. This was a project I did last semester for a class, 2nd character I've done overall - still learning so any feedback would be great. Presentation, topology, capturing the look (yeah, she's covered in crap unlike the original), etc. Thanks for looking & for the input.
Some background info:
I love the art style and work from Guild Wars, so I made a character based off Kekai Kotaki's "Gunner" concept. It's not built to ArenaNet spec though (whatever that is), this mesh is on the heavy side. The first one, which has a few different maps is 14,207 tris. The second, where I cut some of the junk and combined pieces is 9,774, and the last LOD mesh is at 3,835.
Here's the original piece:
From this I worked up the model sheet
Models in 3DS Max
The original maps are like 7 different pieces, which I combined down into one map. Going clockwise from the top left, Diffuse->normal->spec color -> spec
Replies
The design of the face is looking fine. It suits the character and is executed pretty well. The texture could use some work though - more colour variation throughout the skin areas would improve the look of the model significantly.
It would however be improved by working some more colour variation and texture into it.
The distribution of your topology on the rest of the model could be improved. There are a lot of little things that you've modeled out that I would have let the normal map take care of, and then there are other areas that seem comparatively blocky. You also seem to be trying to maintain quads which isn't as important on the low poly model as you might think it is.
While it's a noble gesture to make LODs, I think it's not worth your time. We actually don't even make LODs for character models in the Guild Wars games!
The texture is overall too bland, and nothing stands out much. There's a little too much reliance on noise, and things are kind of running together. Things like lightening worn edges and adding variation across the surfaces would help a lot.
The specular needs more tweaking as others mentioned. It looks like you have two specular maps, one for color and one for gloss?
I think your UV allocation could also be improved. For example, I don't think the dangling cloth pieces in the bottom right quadrant needs that much unique texture space.
Do you have images of the high resolution source model?
My thoughts exactly. Nice work so far, just little tweaks like this would make all the difference
In the second mesh above (9,774), I cast all those damn belts and various hanging pieces into the normal/diffuse so that saved a lot of geometry. What's the typical triangle count for an MMO character anyways? I think some of the examples I saw are around 2000, is that still the case?
Anything specific in the face? I've been looking at it too long so i might just try to pull in a real person's head and move stuff around but even that'll look iffy (to me). Thanks.
2000 is a somewhat modest number these days. From what I've been seeing from upcoming MMOs, I'd say a good number to shoot for would be between 4-6k triangles (even that might be on the lower end). I think that's enough to avoid distracting faceting from typical game camera distances, and allowing for bigger details to be modeled out without making meshes too complex to work with.
Regardless of what you go with, I'd worry more about making the model look as good as you want it to first. Poly count is secondary to showing off artistry and craftsmanship (at least for now!).
It's hard to say exactly from these views (face somewhat hidden by hood and hair), but there are minor things here and there that make it "not quite right." I think if you can detect that in your own work then chances are it will be even more noticeable to others. The best I can say for now is to carefully consult real reference of women who have the look and presence that you're going for.
This isn't to say that she should be "attractive," but the way you're presenting her is rather unflattering. Even if she's meant to be pale and pasty some color variation would help. See if you can translate some nuances from photo references into your model. Sometimes it's all about pushing it that last 10% or so beyond what you might normally settle for.
The sculpt is decent, but it's unrefined in a lot of places. Most of the overlapping pieces don't appear to be affecting the pieces around them, and a lot of the armor pieces feel very thin and unsubstantial. If you look at your sculpt from a distance it kind of looks like most of your sculpting was on a surface detail level, and you could have probably done a lot more with depth to really stress which parts are on top and to give greater definition to the boundaries of the pieces. It's a good idea to add some sort of trim or hem to your fabrics, leathers, and even metals in some cases. Besides appearing more realistic, this will help "contain" each piece and give it more substance. And finally, the cloth could use more gravity in how it hangs and folds.
I'll try to keep this thing updated; re-working it b/w classes. Since there are a bunch of tweaks, I'm going back to the mudbox file to rework the sculpting. I fixed the face on the base geometry so it looks a little better, but I haven't started carving it up yet. Also made the torso area one solid mesh that i'll cast all the small stuff on.
first couple of passes in Mudbox - reworked the armor, the gloves/boots so that the cloth overlaps a bit more. I'll admit, its a bit messy under the forearm/wrist; still torn b/w tight-ish gloves or baggy ones. I'll have to come back to that after a night's rest or something. Anyways, Crits/comments are certainly welcome; I'll work em in as I'm going.
I also think her head is too big and legs/feet are too small. Which is pretty typical, people make bigger the things they view with more interest and importance. IF you shrink her head down you'll probably get rid of the adolescent look and she'll age and grow more into a killer than she is now.
She also has a really long upper chest.
meh, here's a paint over that probably gets the point across with less words.
Could you clarify this part? Do you mean that the shapes and forms aren't reading? or like the colors look too different?
I didn't add "reinforcing the forms" into the original paint over, it was mostly a color correction and proportional paint over.
Right now you're peas aren't allowed to touch the carrots and nobody should even think about going near the mashed potatoes.
Working on each of the color groups as a whole visual object, even if you have different materials try to reinforce shapes that will stand out at a distance. If you squint and you only see a silhouette or a few really strong differences standing out, then things need to be defined a little more.
Still treat mental like metal and cloth like cloth but work on bringing them together as a shape.
Paint in some AO and a few very light highlights. You can't expect the engine and the shader to do all the lighting and material definition, especially with a game so heavily hand painted and stylized like guild wars. Also, Realtime engines are kind of sucky at lighting and shaders, especially MMO style games.
If you take the skirt dress thing (red) for example, on the original model the leather is separated from the cloth and neither is really forming much of a visual shape together, kick some shadows and highlights around on top of them, same with dirt, get some AO mixed in here and bring out that form.
When you look at concepts you want to look at those shapes and what was important to give the character its attitude, what blocks of color are arranged which ways and how can you help translate those to 3D. You're not just looking for "what color are her pants? green" paint bucket fill green pattern.
How can you help round out her thighs and and create a island of visual interest? Can you help the shading under the kneecaps along? What about around the armor?
Nice to see this model again. The face topology from the 02-13 update is very good.
I think what Vig said is really important. Right now there are too many types of materials competing with each other. If all the cloth on the character was the same color and texture, it would help draw the elements together.
One thing I noticed is that the limbs and body are a uniform width. You can gain a more interesting silhouette if you taper parts of the body. For example, give her some hips and pull in the waist just a little. Also, start the limbs thicker where they join to the body and thin them out towards the end. Here's a image of what I mean:
Anyway, good luck man!
More or less finished working on everything. I like the way she looks but I'd love to hear some more opinions before I move on.
That + dynamic proportions = win
I hate you leo.