The media you consume can effect your point of view. We all play video games and probably watched star wars as little kids. And as it turns out we all love video games. What I'm trying to say is that what ever media the shooter was watching and/or reading had an effect on what he did on Saturday.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting that she was threatened before during the healthcare debate. So is it out of bounds to consider this a violent political act?
I agree with that, but the problem with that statement is that that's fascist, i.e. right wing, not socialist, or left wing. Government going out of their way to enforce laws that benefit corporations because corporations pay them tons of money through lobbyists, is not left wing at all.
Republicans filibustered until liberals passed laws that were almost entirely in their favor, yet they're still pretending that Obama's starting a government take-over. Both sides are jokes for different reasons, but one side is not encouraging their constituents to kill members of the other, which is the actual point of this thread.
Government going out of their way to enforce laws that benefit corporations because corporations pay them tons of money through lobbyists, is not left wing at all.
Eh... I'll disagree with that last part. If there's something equal in politics out there, it's the corruption of the political parties. Obama is the commander in chief isn't he? What's stopping him from saying (on his own, screw republicans) that the war is over, we're done, and fold that whole thing up? Nothing that I'm aware of.
And Democrats had a big majority in congress. More than the Republicans had during Bush. And still we got this mess.
Even if someone believes that a purely left-wing, liberal, democrat government would do us good, then isn't it a matter of time until a crappy republican government gets elected and sends us back a few decades?
This is really off-topic for this thread though.
But you're right, the violent angry rhetoric is definitely coming more from "right-wing" neocon leadership, not so much from the liberals.
Actually, people complained alot during the Bush years, still do. How do you potentially shoot someone out on the street? you mean if the gun gets discharged by accident? are you equating that to this incident where murder was the sole thing on this lone lunatics mind? as opposed to someone who carries a gun with them for say, protection? who goes through the training and all the steps necessary to be a responsible gun holder?
I cannot understand that at all. I would think people would want more open carries precisely because of the steps involved in letting them open carry. Criminals will most likely always go the short route as opposed to the longer one.
As to the whole Obama-tax argument, it is really just a mixed bag. Alot of it we haven't seen yet, but just as history goes with inflation and hyperinflation, we will later on unfortunately. It isn't so much about the anger of the taxes we have now but passing it onto our children and their children I believe. How will we pay any of it back? Are people truly as apathetic and uncaring as to believe somehow, it will all just magically sort itself out? That is the basic premise for the anger in my opinion. Didn't mean to drift, I just thought I mention that.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting that she was threatened before during the healthcare debate. So is it out of bounds to consider this a violent political act?
Unfortunately we may never know. Same thing about the Columbine kids. Does playing video games, violent ones suddenly make a person more violent and want to commit violence? Of course not. The difference is intent. You play a video game or watch a movie to relax, even if it is violent I doubt the majority of people, like 99.9999% would look at something violent in a game and actually be intent upon acting out that same violent act and really following through with it.
Politicians are threatened all the time, left and right. We should make tabs from now on of all the health care plan supporters aimed at the Freedom Foundation and other such groups for supporting the anti-Obamacare movement. I can't tell you how many of those recorded voicemail videos I heard on youtube. And that is just the health care thing.
But that's what the teaparty/right wingers in media complain about.
I don't see the oppression, other than giant companies stealing money, getting away with it, and government allowing for it to happen because liberals keep caving into conservatives. Note: They are both equally culpable for that, not just conservatives.
Our civil liberties started falling apart after 9/11 when we let Cheyney Bush drag us into an endless war with people that didn't attack us, yet supposedly some how they think we still won the war. Did we forget that Osama clearly stated that his objective was to financially bleed us to death?
So the answer now is to instigate violence against the people that didn't start the downfall, but are trying desperately to repair it. As far as I can tell, they're constantly failing, but that means we should start shooting them in the face?
You got it. You said exactly the stuff they're doing. That it started during the Bush years is moot. What's relevant is that it's still happening.
They're oppressing us by not removing all the oppressive shit that's been there before the current government got into power.
Haha, you know that if the powers that be ever gave me that power it would be a dark dark day for PC. Soon I would be replacing avatars with testicle pics and inserting fine print into every post submission allowing me to sell your work.
But that's what the teaparty/right wingers in media complain about.
No; that's what you are lumping into their message what you think it means. Sure people are saying less taxes and don't steal my guns. You honestly believe that is the message on a whole? if not, please refrain from the generalizations.
I don't see the oppression, other than giant companies stealing money, getting away with it, and government allowing for it to happen because liberals keep caving into conservatives. Note: They are both equally culpable for that, not just conservatives.
Our civil liberties started falling apart after 9/11 when we let Cheyney Bush drag us into an endless war with people that didn't attack us, yet supposedly some how they think we still won the war. Did we forget that Osama clearly stated that his objective was to financially bleed us to death?
So the answer now is to instigate violence against the people that didn't start the downfall, but are trying desperately to repair it. As far as I can tell, they're constantly failing, but that means we should start shooting them in the face?
Giant corporations stealing money? What about the Government spending massive amounts of money on things the majority of the public does not want? I can guarantee you that the health care mandate is the core problem of alot of people, including myself. You cannot really put the blame on Corporations; with all of the regulation they are being slapped with and a dismal economy, why blame them for hording and not hiring? Did not Obama and the left wing congress decide for all those wonderful bailouts that would save our economy, and two years later has done very little to jump start it, if at all? Again, both hands- Bush did it in his term but spent no where near as much as when Obama did the stimulus.
This is all just finger pointing though; the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were continued; Afghanistan especially. Despite our losses, we did some good over in Iraq, but with 30,000 more troops sent to Afghanistan, you can't really blame just Bush. Especially with all of the rhetoric that came from Obama supposedly ending the wars in the middle East. We still are not completely out of Iraq. But hopefully we will be someday(even "non combat personnel".
So the answer now is to instigate violence against the people that didn't start the downfall, but are trying desperately to repair it. As far as I can tell, they're constantly failing, but that means we should start shooting them in the face?
The only one that seems to be saying that is you. The downfall that began back during Bush has not been solved since Obama, only been made worse. That much is evident in a near 10% unemployment rate and more and more individuals taking on benefits now then ever, because companies are just not hiring. Who do you think creates the jobs?Big Government? or those "greedy" corporations that sit atop their money and give others a chance?
I remember back when the Supreme court ruled for Corporations to have the same privileges as individuals and how much cries for violent revolution were made...the left seems to be much better about concealing it; maybe because there are far less of them actually calling out for violence. Doesn't change anything though.
Well yah, that's certainly true. No one really complains about it, and media personalities on the right wing complain about bullshit issues that don't exist, i.e. mosques, while liberals don't complain about it enough.
They're both at fault, but one side's spreading dishonest propaganda and hatred while the other side is full of pussies.
Arcanox, don't I know you from somewhere. :[
Again, it isn't just the Right. I read an article not too long ago from some Sultan talking about the Mosque as a "victory symbol" for radical Islam everywhere. If you look into the historical context of Mosques, it isn't far gone to dismiss that. It isn't bigoted, isn't hateful, it is simply the way it is.
You said earlier you didn't care about the incident where a handful of Islamic extremists blew up a peaceful mass gathering in Egypt, and yet you expect other people to respect your views towards Islam? Do as I say not as I do, personally that fits well in that situation.
I think Islam should be able to build Mosques, after all we are supposedly a nation of religious tolerance and respect for any religion. All too often, I feel the blame is misplaced on certain Religions out of spite of another; which is purely comedy. But that is a whole other can of worms I'd rather just not get into. I think most people would agree not to go there.
Really unnecessary behavior. Especially when you said it. I am not cursing calling things "bullshit" and saying it would be fun to replace people's avatars with testicles and other such crack pot jokes. Please refrain from those kind of comments. Thanks.
No, in post #113 you quoted Super Happy Cow, but accidentally wrote Gav. It wasn't his quote.
Well yah, that's certainly true. No one really complains about it, and media personalities on the right wing complain about bullshit issues that don't exist, i.e. mosques, while liberals don't complain about it enough.
They're both at fault, but one side's spreading dishonest propaganda and hatred while the other side is full of pussies.
Arcanox, don't I know you from somewhere. :[
Yeah you do. I made a mod for ETQW, but I've continued to work on other things after I wrapped it up.
Dude, you need to soak your head.
1) I refer to your comment as bullshit as this entire thread has no place on PC. Also, yeah, you misquoted me and I'd appreciate NOT being associated with this psychotic rambling.
2) At first I just thought you were being coy - but now I see you just need a history lesson about this forum.
3) Cock n Ball avatars fit in more on this thread than threads about politics.
aside from all that crap, nice talking with you all...I forget who said it..maybe Mark? ughh don't want to scroll down to see but they said that all this kind of discussion is healthy...it is unfortunate it is so nasty sometimes but my heart and utmost condolences go out to Gabrielle and the victims of this horrifying incident otherwise. The guy who did this should really be brought the axe in my opinion, but we'll see.
"Raising our taxes? No."
Ah, wrong? Printing money is a tax, dude. Every dollar they print lessens the value of our money. Therefore, they are taking our wealth. It's a tax. It's raised almost constantly.
"Taking guns? No."
They did during Katrina; so it isn't so ridiculous. It's a problem. They took all the registered firearms to maintain order, but what they don't mention is all the criminal-types who have unregistered firearms. Therefore, they took the law-abiding citizens' self-defense, but left the criminals with weapons. Is that not a problem?
Dude, you need to soak your head.
1) I refer to your comment as bullshit as this entire thread has no place on PC. Also, yeah, you misquoted me and I'd appreciate NOT being associated with this psychotic rambling.
2) At first I just thought you were being coy - but now I see you just need a history lesson about this forum.
3) Cock n Ball avatars fit in more on this thread than threads about politics.
Agreed
But I don't think it's wrong to discuss politics with your friends and co-workers which a lot people here are. though I understand politics can be damaging to professional relationships. I just think there should be a completely separate section for topics unrelated to video games and keep the general forum for game related topics. If politics are discussed on this forum then there should be an agreement that it won't effect the job or potential job.
just my 2 cents
@Gav You may be right maybe this doesn't belong here, it's snowballed into a pretty big shitstorm and i certainly didn't guide it in a very good direction when i posted it (lots of playoffs games on, i had some beers in me)
CNecron518aDude half your posts on this forum have been in this thread, lighten up. Do some 3D art, blow off some steam and come back.
That's all lovely. So you're saying that republicans started the problem, and yell at obama for perpetrating the same issues that they, themselves started, yet the solution still might be to shoot liberals in the face? Yes, we're still talking about shooting people in the face, not about who did what.
But see this is the problem with your logic, it doesn't make any sense. Who has been calling for people to be shooting "Liberals" in the face? Did this lone crazy guy get all of his ideas from Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh? Or course not. That is just insane you are even suggesting that.
The economic crisis started about a week before Obama got into office, and still continues, meaning he's just as culpable for it starting?
It hasn't gotten any better since 08 when he took office. Is it still Bushes fault, in say two more years? 4? All of this spending has to be productive, not counter or it defeats the entire process.
By that logic, Bush is responsible for 9/11 happening almost a year after he came into office, especially since he was warned? Especially since he told the person who warned him "You've covered your ass, now go home?"
Didn't Bill Clinton let the lead go after Osama Bin Laden could have been caught back during his admin? You're going in circles...
Yeah, I remember when a corporate lawyer was placed on the supreme court by Nixon in order to give corporations an inordinate amount of power, and veer our country towards fascism. I remember that, too. Conservatives seem fond of those days, don't they?
Oh, right. You mean the Federal Reserve that IS answerable to the government, and the hurrican Katrina that happened after Obama got elected.
I'm right there with you, brother. MORE GUNS. LESS TAXES, HUAH.
What's that you say? Neither of those things are true? Funny how that worked out.
How much money did the Obama campaign cozy up with big business during the BP oil spill? For that matter, the November 2nd elections and even way before that? The Democrats have been the ones spending money like wazoo. Bush is not innocent, Iraq was a war we could have avoided and the money saved for other things; not sure what your point is there.
You seem to have a fascination with false labels, Conservatives= Fascists? really? I thought the criticism from the left towards the TEA party calling the Left Socialists was what most hated? But it is okay to use the term fascist to imply some sort of evil moniker you can place on Right wingers? Right. Makes total sense.
@Crazy fingers- totally right dude. My bad. I just saw this and it angered me how many people seemed to be implying this was all so simple as a partisan opportunity to smear the other side under false pretenses. I didn't mean for it to drag on this long, but it is inevitable sadly with these kinds of heated debates! unfortunately, it is as others have said...it doesn't really even belong here. I agree, shut it down if it is causing problems guys. Healthy debate is good, but in general whoever posted this thread was just looking for something to talk about, but politics can be so nasty often.
Kaze: Fair enough,though, as far as I know it's pretty much a big no no to discuss politics in the work place as you're treading on thin ice in the land of HR. Discussing it over beers is a totally different story. It's just so far removed from our industry and even frowned upon, so why encourage it on a game dev forum? Unless itinvolves game politics, poltics about games, politics within games, freedom of speech and censorship laws, etc. There are forums out there for that kind of discussion, same with religion and all that other bologna. Plus, it's a big sore spot on what is, believe it or not, the best game art community on the interwebz. I'd hate to see people come here just to take part in the "What Are You Arguing About?" thread when perfectly good WIP threads go untouched. GD can already get out of hand and this thread is just one of many examples.
Oh, right. You mean the Federal Reserve that IS answerable to the government, and the hurrican Katrina that happened after Obama got elected.
I'm right there with you, brother. MORE GUNS. LESS TAXES, HUAH.
What's that you say? Neither of those things are true? Funny how that worked out.
I'm afraid you missed my point. You made it sound as if our taxes weren't being raised. They are. In may not be the Government, strictly speaking, but it is a tax, no less. The bailouts are enacted by our government, so in that way, yes, the fed is answerable to our government, so long as it involves printing far too much money. I would call that raising taxes.
And regarding the guns, well, regardless of who was president, it was more the situation that I was pointing out. The same thing could happen now; there just hasn't been an adequate scare to "necessitate" the government doing such a thing. So, you see, the government doesn't start over with a new president. To say we have the rights we deserve would be ignorant, whether Obama, Bush, Clinton, or The other Bush is in charge. It is our government, as an entity; not the individual presidents that take away our rights, raise taxes, et cetera.
I'm afraid you missed my point. You made it sound as if our taxes weren't being raised. They are. In may not be the Government, strictly speaking, but it is a tax, no less. The bailouts are enacted by our government, so in that way, yes, the fed is answerable to our government, so long as it involves printing far too much money. I would call that raising taxes.
My incredulity with some of the things I'm reading in this thread has certainly been taxed. Strictly speaking, it need not even be government? If you're going to stretch the meaning of the word 'tax' so far that a negative fluctuation in buying power caused by an external party is viewed as taxation, then what increase in cost isn't a tax? The theater raises ticket prices - the value of your money to buy tickets has dropped, ergo the theater has taxed you. Your favorite snack company has started putting fewer chips in the bag without adjusting the price - the value of your money to buy chips has dropped, ergo the snack maker has taxed you.
That's reductio ad absurdum, but not much more than viewing the Department of the Treasury's currency production as a tax levy. When money isn't backed by a commodity, the value is subjective and perpetually in flux - it represents a hypothetical unit of work that simply can't be measured outside of estimated buying power. Even when it is backed by a material good, gold or whatever, inflation and deflation are inevitable economic realities.
Of course, if you really believe the Fed's currency influence is a tax, you could set fire to all your cash to give the rest of us a tax cut :P Maybe that was the Joker's whole plan in The Dark Knight!
It is a tax when they knowingly print off billions of dollars. They are decreasing the value far more than it would fluctuate, you see. So, while, yes, monetary systems have bad times and good times, that doesn't mean, though, that you can print money without consequence. It is ridiculous to think so. It is the most basic law of economy. 101, so to speak. The raised price of the movie ticket is a direct result of our money losing worth; not the movie theatre thinking "Oh, we'll charge these idiots more, because they totally rely on us for entertainment." To use the age-old example - A gold coin can buy the same thing now that it could in the 1800s, or 1920s. It fluctuates very little, you see. It has universal "worth". Removing the gold-standard resulted in a lot of inflation, and the more money we print, the more inflation there will be. Economies fail as a result of such things. Perhaps do some research? The Weimar republic, for instance. Paper is worth only as much as the other countries trust our economy.
Cool, yo.
Seconded. I've already agreed with Vig about things, no doubt stretching my ability to discuss this politely to the limit - anything else I add might cause a permanent rupture in the thread-flame continuum.
Replies
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting that she was threatened before during the healthcare debate. So is it out of bounds to consider this a violent political act?
Yeah, Mark is on fire today. I agree with all that stuff, sounds like you agree with it too. Which means we're all on the same page.
Eh... I'll disagree with that last part. If there's something equal in politics out there, it's the corruption of the political parties. Obama is the commander in chief isn't he? What's stopping him from saying (on his own, screw republicans) that the war is over, we're done, and fold that whole thing up? Nothing that I'm aware of.
And Democrats had a big majority in congress. More than the Republicans had during Bush. And still we got this mess.
Even if someone believes that a purely left-wing, liberal, democrat government would do us good, then isn't it a matter of time until a crappy republican government gets elected and sends us back a few decades?
This is really off-topic for this thread though.
But you're right, the violent angry rhetoric is definitely coming more from "right-wing" neocon leadership, not so much from the liberals.
I don't know. maybe there should be a separate section just for topics outside of video games.
Actually, people complained alot during the Bush years, still do. How do you potentially shoot someone out on the street? you mean if the gun gets discharged by accident? are you equating that to this incident where murder was the sole thing on this lone lunatics mind? as opposed to someone who carries a gun with them for say, protection? who goes through the training and all the steps necessary to be a responsible gun holder?
I cannot understand that at all. I would think people would want more open carries precisely because of the steps involved in letting them open carry. Criminals will most likely always go the short route as opposed to the longer one.
As to the whole Obama-tax argument, it is really just a mixed bag. Alot of it we haven't seen yet, but just as history goes with inflation and hyperinflation, we will later on unfortunately. It isn't so much about the anger of the taxes we have now but passing it onto our children and their children I believe. How will we pay any of it back? Are people truly as apathetic and uncaring as to believe somehow, it will all just magically sort itself out? That is the basic premise for the anger in my opinion. Didn't mean to drift, I just thought I mention that.
Unfortunately we may never know. Same thing about the Columbine kids. Does playing video games, violent ones suddenly make a person more violent and want to commit violence? Of course not. The difference is intent. You play a video game or watch a movie to relax, even if it is violent I doubt the majority of people, like 99.9999% would look at something violent in a game and actually be intent upon acting out that same violent act and really following through with it.
Politicians are threatened all the time, left and right. We should make tabs from now on of all the health care plan supporters aimed at the Freedom Foundation and other such groups for supporting the anti-Obamacare movement. I can't tell you how many of those recorded voicemail videos I heard on youtube. And that is just the health care thing.
Also, Necron - Please remove my name from your bullshit quote, kthxbye.
You got it. You said exactly the stuff they're doing. That it started during the Bush years is moot. What's relevant is that it's still happening.
They're oppressing us by not removing all the oppressive shit that's been there before the current government got into power.
I don't know if you have the power to lock threads. But if you locked this one, I don't think anyone would mind.
lol that's classic. I love it.
Team America pussies/assholes/dicks speech comes to mind.
No; that's what you are lumping into their message what you think it means. Sure people are saying less taxes and don't steal my guns. You honestly believe that is the message on a whole? if not, please refrain from the generalizations.
Giant corporations stealing money? What about the Government spending massive amounts of money on things the majority of the public does not want? I can guarantee you that the health care mandate is the core problem of alot of people, including myself. You cannot really put the blame on Corporations; with all of the regulation they are being slapped with and a dismal economy, why blame them for hording and not hiring? Did not Obama and the left wing congress decide for all those wonderful bailouts that would save our economy, and two years later has done very little to jump start it, if at all? Again, both hands- Bush did it in his term but spent no where near as much as when Obama did the stimulus.
This is all just finger pointing though; the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were continued; Afghanistan especially. Despite our losses, we did some good over in Iraq, but with 30,000 more troops sent to Afghanistan, you can't really blame just Bush. Especially with all of the rhetoric that came from Obama supposedly ending the wars in the middle East. We still are not completely out of Iraq. But hopefully we will be someday(even "non combat personnel".
The only one that seems to be saying that is you. The downfall that began back during Bush has not been solved since Obama, only been made worse. That much is evident in a near 10% unemployment rate and more and more individuals taking on benefits now then ever, because companies are just not hiring. Who do you think creates the jobs?Big Government? or those "greedy" corporations that sit atop their money and give others a chance?
I remember back when the Supreme court ruled for Corporations to have the same privileges as individuals and how much cries for violent revolution were made...the left seems to be much better about concealing it; maybe because there are far less of them actually calling out for violence. Doesn't change anything though.
Again, it isn't just the Right. I read an article not too long ago from some Sultan talking about the Mosque as a "victory symbol" for radical Islam everywhere. If you look into the historical context of Mosques, it isn't far gone to dismiss that. It isn't bigoted, isn't hateful, it is simply the way it is.
You said earlier you didn't care about the incident where a handful of Islamic extremists blew up a peaceful mass gathering in Egypt, and yet you expect other people to respect your views towards Islam? Do as I say not as I do, personally that fits well in that situation.
I think Islam should be able to build Mosques, after all we are supposedly a nation of religious tolerance and respect for any religion. All too often, I feel the blame is misplaced on certain Religions out of spite of another; which is purely comedy. But that is a whole other can of worms I'd rather just not get into. I think most people would agree not to go there.
No, in post #113 you quoted Super Happy Cow, but accidentally wrote Gav. It wasn't his quote.
Yeah you do. I made a mod for ETQW, but I've continued to work on other things after I wrapped it up.
1) I refer to your comment as bullshit as this entire thread has no place on PC. Also, yeah, you misquoted me and I'd appreciate NOT being associated with this psychotic rambling.
2) At first I just thought you were being coy - but now I see you just need a history lesson about this forum.
3) Cock n Ball avatars fit in more on this thread than threads about politics.
Opps. sorry. Ill fix that right away.
blast it! dang quotes! lol
there, fixed. blaahhh this whole argument yeah just sucks. Politics sucks. Just make game art and be happy.
Case in point:
hahaha soo wrong! back of a pick up too!
Edit:
aside from all that crap, nice talking with you all...I forget who said it..maybe Mark? ughh don't want to scroll down to see but they said that all this kind of discussion is healthy...it is unfortunate it is so nasty sometimes but my heart and utmost condolences go out to Gabrielle and the victims of this horrifying incident otherwise. The guy who did this should really be brought the axe in my opinion, but we'll see.
Ah, wrong? Printing money is a tax, dude. Every dollar they print lessens the value of our money. Therefore, they are taking our wealth. It's a tax. It's raised almost constantly.
"Taking guns? No."
They did during Katrina; so it isn't so ridiculous. It's a problem. They took all the registered firearms to maintain order, but what they don't mention is all the criminal-types who have unregistered firearms. Therefore, they took the law-abiding citizens' self-defense, but left the criminals with weapons. Is that not a problem?
But I don't think it's wrong to discuss politics with your friends and co-workers which a lot people here are. though I understand politics can be damaging to professional relationships. I just think there should be a completely separate section for topics unrelated to video games and keep the general forum for game related topics. If politics are discussed on this forum then there should be an agreement that it won't effect the job or potential job.
just my 2 cents
CNecron518a Dude half your posts on this forum have been in this thread, lighten up. Do some 3D art, blow off some steam and come back.
@Everyone can't we all just get along?
But see this is the problem with your logic, it doesn't make any sense. Who has been calling for people to be shooting "Liberals" in the face? Did this lone crazy guy get all of his ideas from Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh? Or course not. That is just insane you are even suggesting that.
It hasn't gotten any better since 08 when he took office. Is it still Bushes fault, in say two more years? 4? All of this spending has to be productive, not counter or it defeats the entire process.
Didn't Bill Clinton let the lead go after Osama Bin Laden could have been caught back during his admin? You're going in circles...
How much money did the Obama campaign cozy up with big business during the BP oil spill? For that matter, the November 2nd elections and even way before that? The Democrats have been the ones spending money like wazoo. Bush is not innocent, Iraq was a war we could have avoided and the money saved for other things; not sure what your point is there.
You seem to have a fascination with false labels, Conservatives= Fascists? really? I thought the criticism from the left towards the TEA party calling the Left Socialists was what most hated? But it is okay to use the term fascist to imply some sort of evil moniker you can place on Right wingers? Right. Makes total sense.
@Crazy fingers- totally right dude. My bad. I just saw this and it angered me how many people seemed to be implying this was all so simple as a partisan opportunity to smear the other side under false pretenses. I didn't mean for it to drag on this long, but it is inevitable sadly with these kinds of heated debates! unfortunately, it is as others have said...it doesn't really even belong here. I agree, shut it down if it is causing problems guys. Healthy debate is good, but in general whoever posted this thread was just looking for something to talk about, but politics can be so nasty often.
Have a nice day everyone!
I'm afraid you missed my point. You made it sound as if our taxes weren't being raised. They are. In may not be the Government, strictly speaking, but it is a tax, no less. The bailouts are enacted by our government, so in that way, yes, the fed is answerable to our government, so long as it involves printing far too much money. I would call that raising taxes.
And regarding the guns, well, regardless of who was president, it was more the situation that I was pointing out. The same thing could happen now; there just hasn't been an adequate scare to "necessitate" the government doing such a thing. So, you see, the government doesn't start over with a new president. To say we have the rights we deserve would be ignorant, whether Obama, Bush, Clinton, or The other Bush is in charge. It is our government, as an entity; not the individual presidents that take away our rights, raise taxes, et cetera.
My incredulity with some of the things I'm reading in this thread has certainly been taxed. Strictly speaking, it need not even be government? If you're going to stretch the meaning of the word 'tax' so far that a negative fluctuation in buying power caused by an external party is viewed as taxation, then what increase in cost isn't a tax? The theater raises ticket prices - the value of your money to buy tickets has dropped, ergo the theater has taxed you. Your favorite snack company has started putting fewer chips in the bag without adjusting the price - the value of your money to buy chips has dropped, ergo the snack maker has taxed you.
That's reductio ad absurdum, but not much more than viewing the Department of the Treasury's currency production as a tax levy. When money isn't backed by a commodity, the value is subjective and perpetually in flux - it represents a hypothetical unit of work that simply can't be measured outside of estimated buying power. Even when it is backed by a material good, gold or whatever, inflation and deflation are inevitable economic realities.
Of course, if you really believe the Fed's currency influence is a tax, you could set fire to all your cash to give the rest of us a tax cut :P Maybe that was the Joker's whole plan in The Dark Knight!
Cool, yo.
Works for me, my condolences to the artistic community. I'll try not to open pandora's box again.
In light of recent posts we've either been trolled in genius fashion or the political wheel has simply spun full circle, hard to tell these days.