Adobe Illustrator for texture maps
polycounter lvl 14
Hey everyone,
With the new semester starting in the Spring I just found out that my school will be using Adobe Illustrator for Graphic Design Tools.
-Course Description
"This course introduces students to computer-based graphic design tools and their use within the context of simulation and game design. Topics include texture creation, map creation, and introduction to advanced level graphic design techniques. Upon completion, students should be able to competently use and explain industry-standard graphic design software"
I might be mistaken, but I cannot recall anyone using Adobe Illustrator for the creation of texture maps. Is this even possible with it being a vector based program or is it just another tool that is used in the industry. Any information would be helpful.
With the new semester starting in the Spring I just found out that my school will be using Adobe Illustrator for Graphic Design Tools.
-Course Description
"This course introduces students to computer-based graphic design tools and their use within the context of simulation and game design. Topics include texture creation, map creation, and introduction to advanced level graphic design techniques. Upon completion, students should be able to competently use and explain industry-standard graphic design software"
I might be mistaken, but I cannot recall anyone using Adobe Illustrator for the creation of texture maps. Is this even possible with it being a vector based program or is it just another tool that is used in the industry. Any information would be helpful.
Replies
Also you said that was a cartoon. What about game engines such as UDK? Do they support vector graphics?
It's great for logo's, posters, anything that needs to be resized without loss of resolution etc, and also for illustration and bits to be used for 2D animation like Glottis mentioned above.
However, for game art purposes it's kinda limited, but it does have its uses.
Obviously you're not gonna be creating your whole texture maps with Illustrator, simply because it's vector based and not raster. But there are times when Illustrator will excel for bits and pieces, for example;
Signage - Road signs, banners etc that you might put in your scene. For example, I made a scene a while back that had some crates/boxes lying around, as well as some advertisement banners, and used Illustrator to quickly create logo's/designs to be put on those which I then brought into Photoshop as a Smart Object.
Typography - If you want to add custom text to something, Illustrator is pretty great for messing with typefaces.
So in short, it has it's uses, but you're gonna be spending far more time in a raster based app. Also, anything that you might use Illustrator for that I've mentioned above, Photoshop can do too, not as efficiently in some cases, but it has the tools there.
Thanks for the information. You pretty much confirmed with what I was thinking. Hopefully the teacher lets me deviate from some the course work that he is going to assign. I tend to be a self learner anyway.
"Want a degree go to College, Want to learn go to a Library"
Now I know a lot of colleges don't really know what game 'design' is and call their course game 'design' even though it covers things like art/sound/writing/design, but Illustrator can be a great tool for quickly throwing together some shapes when concepting levels. In fact I just watched the DVD that came with the Cataclysm CE, and I think in the Retrospective section, they talked about how their original design ideas for zones/levels were 'Rough Illustrator shapes made into maps'. In that sense, Illustrator is great for effectively 'greyboxing' in 2D, just dropping a bunch of shapes/curves, and moving them around, resizing to your hearts content.
So another potential use I guess.
it is a vector based program and handles rasters in the worst way possible. if anyone mentions "placing images", then they should be shot by a squad of penises. there are other vector programs that can do everything illustrator can do times five million. want to round/fillet a corner? well illustrator can't even do that... it has to "fake" it with a filter. so you never get the actual vector of a filleted corner. there's also no realtime feedback... A HUGE downside. you can MMB drag a lot in PS for realtime feedback of transform adjustments, etc. everything in illustrator operates on a "preview" checkbox and manual numerical inputs. (sorry for the rant).
C22: didn't read all your post, but you are correct... it's good for really only vector images. they've made some tools better over the years... but seriously... there is a lot that it could do well that it just simply doesn't. it is highly inaccurate at small sizes. snapping is a bitch. you are restricted to a maximum canvas size of 227 something odd inches, which is absurd. the list goes on and on. the more it grows, it feels more and more like a slap dash hack job program. cool new features that are not fully realized.
i use illustrator almost every day of the work week, and i cringe everytime i click the shortcut.
hopefully you'll get into InDesign which is becoming the new standard.
Illustrator is something that will probably take some time to grasp, and while the applications are really limited, there's definitely some really good stuff you can take away from using that program.
Just citing a specific example, but I know guys who do texture maps for Hockey games use Illustrator quite a bit to get all the detailed linework and stitching patterns correct on equipment like this:
I guess it's overall applications are limited, but every now and again I find some good use for Illustrator to mockup some shapes or do up some really nice masks for zbrush. I wouldn't knock it entirely.
YES! I can't believe I forgot to mention that in my post but yeah, Illustrator is great for UI too, for obvious reasons.
IIRC Scaleform uses Flash, which again works with vectors, so some vector training would be useful there too.
I can much quicker get a basic design together and into Photoshop for cleanup from Illustrator then create from scratch in Photoshop.
It also helps with textures like very specific details like stitching, warning graphics, etc. Things that rely on a precise layout and clean edges.
It also helps with making clean very exact concept art that is easier to import. As you can import vector art into many 3d programs allowing you in some cases to loft or extrude as need be to get your character or items started.
Now, can it be used alone? Unless your doing a very particular style like a cartoon game. No, you still will need to import into Photoshop to take it all to a level of realism and grit.
Does Photoshop have some of the same tools? Yes. The path tools do mimick some of Illustrators functionality, but you arent getting the same control or properties you can get with Illustrator.
Finally, Illustrator if imported into PS as a svg? or vector layer. Can be resized bigger or smaller without effecting the dpi/crispness of the graphic. You can also double click on that layer to reopen that graphic in Illustrator to edit if need be.
I would suggest all 3d Artist at least give it a shot in trying to get Illustrator at some point into their workflow. It can save them time on very particular things. Convincing your lead to buy if for the team though.. Good Luck!
Illustrator is archaic, clunky, obtuse, the shortcuts and panels don't match other adobe programs very well, and it's got a billion finnicky annoying details you need to learn before it becomes remotely usable for even basic tasks.
As far as "Adobe Illustrator for texture maps" that's absolutely insane. Texture maps have texture. Texture is not a strength of vectors. Vectors are worth learning to work with anyways, cause they are very good at certain things, but texture maps are definitely not one of them.
Good thing is it's cheap, a fraction of the cost of an art school and you get transferable college credits. Just do a lot of outside practicing and stuff and it'll work out. I wish I could get some of my students reading game art forums.
Now, you can make the desktop graphic in illustrator, Import into your photoshop texture as a vector layer. Move, copy, resize without adding much to file size of the photoshop and keeping all the original detail. Then on top of those vector layers you can mask and ad the grit to make it look like a used surface.
If you tried to make those graphics in photoshop, first it would take longer and secondly you would have a larger file size as the would have to be rasterized levels and copied. You also couldnt resize much without effecting the quality.
saying that flash is better than illustrator, just shows lack of knowledge, both are awesome
apps, and can surely share some capabilities, but what about doing a large print project, managing color pantones for several types of printers? For sure flash wont cut...and its not supposed to, is great at what it does which is animation/web.
As for doing textures with illustrator I dont see why not, it can actually be quite interesting, if you follow the same principles for hand painted textures in photoshop. Its just a different way of doing things. Maybe not the most mainstream way of doing textures but hey why not give it a try, is not for production work anyways so its good time to explore new things I believe.
Trust me I have tried telling other classmates about Polycount, Eat3d, Gnomon, Game Artisans even. People just feel like playing games all day lol. Its not different here either.
Some of it's new features are incredibly awesome for drawing and sketching, but with aspects of ammodeling workflow, ala point movement and such. I'm actually wanting to take it for a texturing test drive soon. It's not Photoshop, for sure, but it does have a lot more fluidity and power than it did in the early and pre cs days.
For 2d games and web applications it also has a new per pixel snap function so you can keep crisp edges and lines in your pixel art.
Haha, tell me about that :P I'm taking one of those Game Design courses myself. While it is my ultimate goal to work as a game designer it's nearly impossible to break into as one; that's the reason why I have picked up art. Unfortunately, not all of my colleagues are aware that getting additional skills will let you land a job more easily. Sorry for derailing the thread.
I do a lot of designing in illustrator, and bringing my AI files into PS as smart objects to add smaller details like texture and or grit.
This also comes down to a persons preferred way of working, I feel something like Illustrator is a valuable app to know and understand, just as flash is a valuable to know and understand. Some may prefer how flash treats vectors to how illustrator does. I personally prefer illustrator, probably because I was exposed to it and it's tools before those of flashes.
Illustrator has also improved a lot, having used CS2 - didn't much like that one, CS3 was quite nice, then CS4 and CS5 came along and changed quite a few things, had to get used to it again, but they added features allowing for more accuracy when designing with the edition of snapping, and sped up my work flow by improving the pathfinding tool and love CS4 / CS5 illustrator.
In the end of the day, it's about your personal preference and workflow.
It's nice, fast, easy to use. Photoshop's is worse and clunkier, and Flash's is also not as nice.
Illustrator's pencil tool is also quite good if you want a less precise look for something.
However the rest of the program is awful and clunky, and it makes it mind boggling difficult to just erase or edit parts of finished artwork.