Mudbox: UV blues

Simon

Hello, I realised that at some stage I'd accidentally bumped the UV coordinates to the right while in 3ds max before I exported =(

Short of getting my head read, is there any way I can fix the problem without starting all the Mudbox work again? All i want to do is shift the UVs to the left a bit. So I'm wondering whether I can either do that in mudbox or import a uvmap? Otherwise I'm toast.

oglu

export level0... do your uv work in max...
in mud go to file --> import uv...

if you need uvs also in the higher levels go to mesh --> recreate level uvs

Simon

what is wrong with me -_-

In my defence I had a lot on my mind...

EDIT: for crying out loud.. now I can't rotate around my object? what now?

EDIT: Ok it hasn't worked, I tried importing the UVW of another OBJ from 3ds max with the correct UVW coordinants and nothing came of it.

Simon

Bump.

It may seem like yet another annoyance but I'm currently stuck and I need to finish my project soon or else I'll need to pay for an extension of my online course.

It's really important. Please help.

oglu

i need more infos... what are you doing exactly..

pior

Another way you can do it is as follows, if everything else fails :

-Rework your lowpoly in Max or maya, giving it good UVs,
-Import that in your mudbox scene containing your sculpted high,
-Create a displacement map to deform the new low (subdivided) into your existing highpoly sculpt.
-Collapse the sculpt layers > you should have a nice, new highpoly mesh with proper UVs.

The cool thing with that technique is that it allows you to edit the low, adding loops, changing vert order and so on. A pretty solid workflow actually!

Hope this helps

P

oglu

an other way...

export level0 and your highest...
do new uvs on your level0...
import level0 to a new clean mud scene...
subD it up to the same polycount your high has...
import the old high as layer...

this only works if you dont change the vertexorder...


if you have the SAP version of mud you could use trasfer details...

Simon

Ok problem fixed, thanks guys, but one thing still remains... I can't orbit around my object.. why would that be? alt and left mouse button drag no longer work even though it's still listed in the hotkey window... I had an earlier version but it has a hole in it and is less complete... =|

EDIT:

I'm also still having this major pain in the ass problem where mudbox refuses to sculpt in some areas.. I don't mean to rip on other people's software but this really is the pitts, i mean for high poly base objects this software is probably fine but it really has been a nightmare trying to working around mudbox's quirks.

The college I want to go to teaches mudbox, but I might teach myself zbrush anyway.. the first time I used zbrush I had absolutely no problem what so ever.

But please, I still need to finish this, I can't just switch to zbrush now, I've committed myself to finishing this.

oglu

i never head a problem like this... could you capture a short vid about the `"cant sculpt in some areas" problem...

there is a capture feature in mud... render --> record movie

Simon

Ok I'll do that.

EDIT: Here you are

http://www.mediafire.com/?b04z6ukr2p5xdf2

Simon

Another problem I'm having is that the smooth brush does bugger all i have the strength and build up at full and as fas as I'm concerned that should actually flatten the mesh with smoothness, but instead it's like I still have it at some tiny number.

oglu

how big is your mesh compared to the mudbox head..?
or are you using the mud head..?

mud is size dependend... if your mesh is to small it wont work like expected...

Simon

I'm using an imported subdivided mesh that begun life at around 886 polys. The size is suited for the doom 3 engine, so I guess that makes it a normal size? is that too small?

Ben Apuna

You need to export one of the meshes you can create in Mudbox to your 3D app and compare it's size with your model (size refers to the scale of the model, not the polycount). They need to be roughly the same scale. If you need to re-scale your model do it in your 3D app (then freeze transforms) and re-export to Mudbox. Do not re-scale your model in Mudbox, it won't work properly.

Simon

size refers to the scale of the model, not the polycount

Lol I know that I just thought I'd mention the way I got the model into mudbox because Oglu seemed to be of the impression that I was using the standard head base.

If you need to re-scale your model do it in your 3D app (then freeze transforms) and re-export to Mudbox. Do not re-scale your model in Mudbox, it won't work properly.

But doesn't that merge the subdivision levels? or is there a way to preserve that? I need to create a normal map for level0 based on the highest level.

Btw, thanks guys for trying to help me around Christmas, it's really appreciated.

Ben Apuna

I think this will work, though I only have Mudbox 2009 so it might be a slightly different workflow.

1. In Mudbox, create a Displacement map with your lowest and highest subdivision level.

2. Export your level 0.

3. Export one of the Mudbox stock models.

4. Import both of them into a new Max scene.

5. Scale your model so that it is about the same size as the Mudbox model.

6. Reset XForms.

7. Import your scaled model into a new Mudbox scene.

8. Subdivide your model back up to it's previous highest subdivision level.

9. Maps -> Sculpt Model Using Displacement Map. (using the displacement map from step 1)

10. Profit

Simon

Sorry but what do you mean by reset xforms? everything else seems to make sense..

Ben Apuna

This thread does a great job of explaining reset xform, particularly this post.

Simon

Ok, thank you very much Ben Apuna, I'll try that and come back with the results.

Simon

I decided to test and see what the displacement map looked like on the lowest subdivision..

(see attached)

So is it meant to look like that? or only in this situation... I kind of figured it'd need to of been smoother than that to work well... or Maybe I've got the settings wrong..?

Ben Apuna

You need to use a higher bit depth file format for your displacement map to avoid the banding/stair stepping artifacts.

TIFF (32bit Floating Point, RGBA) should do the job.

Check this video out, it sort of goes over the general idea what you are trying to do.

EDIT:

Doh! I guess the video cuts out near the end... sorry about that.

Simon

hello, I did what he said in the video and my displacement map still looks the same. I'll upload and show you what it looks like as an image.

You can download the TIFF file below.

http://www.mediafire.com/?x5r3b3m1htsey5u

As you can see, there are all these white parts for some reason.. they're causing the strange parts like around the mouth.

And I think it might also be necessary to upload the actual files I'm working with at some point... Just so I can deal with the problem and finish the damn course =|

Ben Apuna

Well you seem to have gotten rid of the banding from the previous pic by baking to a 32bit floating point tiff, so that's a good step in the right direction.

I think the white parts are incorrect ray misses or hits from the baking process. You could try different bake settings in Mudbox such as:

1. Increasing or decreasing the Search Distance.

2. Try out the different Choose Samples settings: Closest to Target Model, Furthest Outside, and Furthest Inside.

3. Or a combination of 1 and 2.

Baking the displacement map with a cage in xNormal might help reduce these things as well.

Or it might be faster to just re-sculpt the problem areas.

I hope that helps.

Somewhat off topic:

Not to say no one here is interested in helping you or anything like that, but you mention this is for a online course, isn't there an instructor or someone to help you with these things? If you've paid money then I'd think you should be entitled to some help.

Simon

Yeah, The objective was to use 3ds max and photoshop to create a game with a group of other people, and they taught those programs. I wanted to learn mudbox because the engine I have been interested in is doom 3 and the mod 'The dark mod' a thief clone.

-It would have looked weird with no normal maps
-I want to go to a college next year that teaches mudbox and if I can demonstrate prior knowledge of the software I might get a scholarship.
-I wanted to challenge myself - I've never run the full mile of creating a character from scratch, rigging animating and getting into game, I think after all this simple stuff it was time to really dive in the deep in of the pool.

EDIT: btw, I'll try what you've said. And thank you, I really appreciate your continued support.

Simon

OK.. I got rid of that problem.. somewhat. I tried testing the sculpt with displacement map option, followed the vid (found a complete version) and low and behold absolutely no effect on my model what so ever. I swear to god I'm cursed.

I don't want to seem like a baby that needs to be spoon fed but that spoon has a jet engine and is covered in soap O_O

You seem to know what your talking about, would you mind helping a guy out and trying it yourself if I give you the files? If that's cool with you the files are below, otherwise I'm just going to have to work the best I can with dodgy bumps here and there and perhaps call it a day when it seems 'good enough'. Either way I've learnt my lesson about Mudbox. It is picky and annoying and I'll probably enjoy Zbrush more XD - or I'm cursed.. Oh and I need to make sure my head is the right scale next time..

EDIT: oh you have got to be kidding me.. I can't even have that.. your not going to want to download 600mb (compressed) for this... I didn't think the mudbox file would be this huge..

Ben Apuna

Me downloading your file probably won't help, unless you're using Mudbox 2009 as well. I don't think Mudbox files are backwards compatible, though I could be wrong. If either of those is the case I don't mind downloading a 600mb file to take a look.

Sometimes with these things it is better to start over. Making something a 2nd time around usually is faster and produces better results.

Don't feel too bad about all this. "Jumping in the deep end of the pool to learn to swim" is when you end up learning the most.

Simon

"Jumping in the deep end of the pool to learn to swim" is when you end up learning the most.

Yeah, I get told that a lot which is why I decided to. What doesn't kill me makes me stronger and all that.. heh

And thanks for agreeing to download, I'm using 2011 for a short amount of time (to get me started)

I should be able to upload the files by tomorrow. (Sydney time)

Ben Apuna

Ok, but I'm using Mudbox 2009, so I probably won't be able to open your 2011 file.

Perhaps just export your lowest and highest subdivisions as OBJs and upload that instead.

Simon

Ok I'll do that if you think it will work, in fact I should have that in the next few minutes

EDIT: nope sorry I'll have to be tomorrow after all =|

Simon

http://www.mediafire.com/?5r1fkaq2a2ttksq

Here it is, I got it compressed to 60mb by exporting the level 6 subdivision. It was level 7 because of the way level 0 is so low poly

I've included the mudbox file, the obj of the exported head file and the max file (it contains other parts of the character so take care to select export)

Ben Apuna

The following is what I did to get this to work.

1. Scaled low poly up 1000% in vertex mode.

2. Scaled high poly up 1000% in vertex mode.

3. Deleted "bottom" out of low poly head as it was causing issues with subdivision in Mudbox.

4. Merged the chest area back to the rest of the low poly head.

5. Un-mirrored the mouth UVs and merged them back together as mirroring causes issues in Mudbox.

6. Fixed some overlapping UVs around the hairline and lips slightly as overlapping would cause problems creating the displacement map.

7. Rotated the ponytail UVs so that it didn't stick out of the 0-1 UV range as this would cause two displacement maps to be created by Mudbox rather than one.

8. Open the new low poly head in Mudbox.

9. Subdivide it up to level 6.

10. Import the high poly head.

11. Extract Texture Maps -> Displacement Map with low poly at level 6 as the target and the high poly as the source. Choose Samples set to Closest to Target Model (Furthest Outside and Inside produced more errors around the mouth in step 13). 4096 - 32 bit floating point tif as the file format for the displacement map.

12. Delete the high poly mesh out of the scene, to conserve memory (optional).

13. Maps -> Sculpt Model Using Displacement Map -> New Operation... with the low poly mesh (still at subdivision level 6) as the target.

After that you should be able to step up and down the subdivision levels and sculpt properly with the various brushes without the scale of your model being an issue.

I guess you could do all that with your level 7 subdivision if you have it instead of the level 6 you provided in the zip.

There are some problem areas around the lips and in the mouth which you will need to clean up manually. This seems to be easier to do by going to the lower subdivision levels and working your way back up the the higher ones.

I'm not a character modeler, but I believe the UVs on the low poly mesh could use some more work, which if done before creating the displacement map might help reduce the errors a bit more.

Here's how it looked at the end of step 13 in Mudbox 2009:



In the future you might want to start sculpting from a "base mesh" rather than your intended low poly model. A proper "base mesh" would be composed of mostly quads of roughly the same scale. A search on tips for base meshes here on Polycount will probably yield good results.

Here's the low poly model that I ended up using for this process.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1447878/ScaledHead.zip

Simon

Hmm ok, so that should totally fix the problem right? I'll need to go an manually fix the UVs myself because it shares the UVs of the legs so all of this will be a fair step.

Thank you for showing the results btw.

Ben Apuna

Yeah I guess you'll have to fix up the UVs yourself then. Just make sure the ponytail is within 0-1 space and nothing is overlapping.

You don't necessarily have to un-mirror the mouth, just move one of the sides over 1 unit in U or V. If you do that, Mudbox will simply create 2 displacement maps when you bake from the high to the low poly, which shouldn't make any difference in the end. It's just a bit more complicated that way.