The Definitive College Answer
polycounter lvl 7
Bullshit alert - this was written by someone who doesn't actually know anything, at a time he probably shouldn't have written anything. The posts below are the most informative, but if you must read this one, just know that it doesn't necessarily reflect reality.
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TL/DR: Go to school and get a regular degree, because if you don't the only people who'll hire you are the people who like to lay you off. If you get a degree, you'll be in a better position to find better non video game related work. As a result, you may not have to work at McDonalds.
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I started college in the Spring of 2005. I went from thinking I'd be a computer programmer, to thinking I'd be a 3D artist, and back and forth like that about two more times. Then I thought I'd drop out, came within a hairs breath of doing just that, going back on it... about twice. I also posted a thread here about how school sucks...
Anyway, I've learned something over the years of being a perpetual student. I learned several things actually, but I'm posting this thread in the hopes of sharing something specific.
Go to college.
Judging from a lot of the threads here and in other related forums online, long periods of unemployment aren't uncommon. In many cases, the unemployed CG artist is forced to pick up a menial job to make ends meet. In other cases, the unemployed CG artist is forced to find work far away and at a great cost - often leaving their wife, kids, and family behind.
Why does this happen?
I have a theory. Game studios are known not to ask for degrees. They want to see your portfolio. Some game studios are also known to lay off employees in mass and in cycles. There are also periods where it seems as if no studios are hiring (perhaps they are in the middle of major projects that are all slated to end at a certain time, such as the Christmas holiday).
From what I've read, it's the same situation in the film industry. And based on the information I've read here, other places online, and in books, I have concluded that someone with a degree has more options.
And I don't mean just any degree.
My college has a 'Game Design' degree. It's a subset/focus of the Computer Science curriculum. I've been in that, and it's pretty much a joke. It's exactly the same as the Computer Science curriculum, with about three classes substituted, and a couple basic art classes added.
What on earth is anyone going to do with a 'Game Design' degree? Do you expect to walk up to the office building doors with your head up high and your expectations through the roof - walk into the manager's office - and present this degree? Do you have no shame?
You will.
Game Design degrees are useless. They may factually represent pretty much the same thing as it's related Computer Science (or perhaps in other schools, a standard Art degree), but it comes with a major handicap.
Game studios don't care about degrees, and other companies don't have any use for a Game Design graduate. It is probably the most pointless degree on the face of the Earth. Not only should you go to school, but you should get a regular degree. Mine is Graphic Design.
What jobs can a Graphic Design graduate get? A hell of a lot more than a Game Design graduate that's what. First, there's the companies that are looking for people to do some boring low-level office task. Maybe the job involves answering the phone or for a museum. The job probably pays about $10 an hour, maybe a tiny bit more. Or maybe it's a job at a local print making shop. Or hell, if you have a good Graphic Design portfolio, perhaps even a Graphic Design job.
So who's going to get those jobs?
The guy with the BA in Graphic Design that's who. They will think you're a f-tard if you go in there with a Game Design degree. It doesn't matter how awesome you are to most businesses. No one respects 'game designers'. Some may even hold contempt for you with a degree like that.
So lets say you get a degree in Game Design from that super expensive art school you always wanted to go to. You graduate, land a gig for 6 months thanks to one of your awesome instructors. Then you get laid off. You can't find work for several months, and then sh*t gets real.
You'll want any job, and with your awesome degree, you'll only get the jobs people get just out of high school. You find out something, all the careers outside of the game industry happen to have value in a college education (and none of this new fangled hippy video game stuff). You can't even work at the museum because they think you're fucking around. The same events take place if you don't have a degree.
BUT, lets say you got a degree in one of the more classical college studies. The Graphic Design graduate is in a better position to get a better job outside of the game industry, should that person be economically forced out of it.
Additionally, a Graphic Design graduate & VG artist who has trouble finding work in the game industry can change his career to Graphic Design. Or Motion Graphics (which is literally nothing more than an animated design). Or any number of artistic fields that use the computer as a primary tool. You won't even have to go back to school for more certification, you can just study on your own and push your portfolio in the direction you want to go.
I bet it's probably the absolute best degree an artist can get in these difficult times.
Because seriously, do you think things will get better? Common house-hold minerals are slated to run out in the next few decades unless new sources are found. Oil is running out. Pollution's getting worse. Population's are exploding. Fiat currencies are failing. Corruption is running rampant. This isn't the golden age anymore. We're in for a long period of hardship, possibly followed by disaster.
And in the mean time, do you want to be an unemployed guy bumming off his girlfriend and parents desperate for that dream job? Or do you want to have the option of starting a serious career that's in real demand when it looks as though that dream was just that - nothing more than a dream?
Life sucks. That was the other thing I learned. We're often not going to be able to do what we want to do. But we can think ahead, and put ourselves in a position where it won't seem as bad when we fail to reach our goal.
So go to school. Get a degree people can appreciate without rolling their eyes at you. Don't trade in your future for a dream unless you're the second coming of Leonardo Davinci. (some of you here are)
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TL/DR: Go to school and get a regular degree, because if you don't the only people who'll hire you are the people who like to lay you off. If you get a degree, you'll be in a better position to find better non video game related work. As a result, you may not have to work at McDonalds.
--
I started college in the Spring of 2005. I went from thinking I'd be a computer programmer, to thinking I'd be a 3D artist, and back and forth like that about two more times. Then I thought I'd drop out, came within a hairs breath of doing just that, going back on it... about twice. I also posted a thread here about how school sucks...
Anyway, I've learned something over the years of being a perpetual student. I learned several things actually, but I'm posting this thread in the hopes of sharing something specific.
Go to college.
Judging from a lot of the threads here and in other related forums online, long periods of unemployment aren't uncommon. In many cases, the unemployed CG artist is forced to pick up a menial job to make ends meet. In other cases, the unemployed CG artist is forced to find work far away and at a great cost - often leaving their wife, kids, and family behind.
Why does this happen?
I have a theory. Game studios are known not to ask for degrees. They want to see your portfolio. Some game studios are also known to lay off employees in mass and in cycles. There are also periods where it seems as if no studios are hiring (perhaps they are in the middle of major projects that are all slated to end at a certain time, such as the Christmas holiday).
From what I've read, it's the same situation in the film industry. And based on the information I've read here, other places online, and in books, I have concluded that someone with a degree has more options.
And I don't mean just any degree.
My college has a 'Game Design' degree. It's a subset/focus of the Computer Science curriculum. I've been in that, and it's pretty much a joke. It's exactly the same as the Computer Science curriculum, with about three classes substituted, and a couple basic art classes added.
What on earth is anyone going to do with a 'Game Design' degree? Do you expect to walk up to the office building doors with your head up high and your expectations through the roof - walk into the manager's office - and present this degree? Do you have no shame?
You will.
Game Design degrees are useless. They may factually represent pretty much the same thing as it's related Computer Science (or perhaps in other schools, a standard Art degree), but it comes with a major handicap.
Game studios don't care about degrees, and other companies don't have any use for a Game Design graduate. It is probably the most pointless degree on the face of the Earth. Not only should you go to school, but you should get a regular degree. Mine is Graphic Design.
What jobs can a Graphic Design graduate get? A hell of a lot more than a Game Design graduate that's what. First, there's the companies that are looking for people to do some boring low-level office task. Maybe the job involves answering the phone or for a museum. The job probably pays about $10 an hour, maybe a tiny bit more. Or maybe it's a job at a local print making shop. Or hell, if you have a good Graphic Design portfolio, perhaps even a Graphic Design job.
So who's going to get those jobs?
The guy with the BA in Graphic Design that's who. They will think you're a f-tard if you go in there with a Game Design degree. It doesn't matter how awesome you are to most businesses. No one respects 'game designers'. Some may even hold contempt for you with a degree like that.
So lets say you get a degree in Game Design from that super expensive art school you always wanted to go to. You graduate, land a gig for 6 months thanks to one of your awesome instructors. Then you get laid off. You can't find work for several months, and then sh*t gets real.
You'll want any job, and with your awesome degree, you'll only get the jobs people get just out of high school. You find out something, all the careers outside of the game industry happen to have value in a college education (and none of this new fangled hippy video game stuff). You can't even work at the museum because they think you're fucking around. The same events take place if you don't have a degree.
BUT, lets say you got a degree in one of the more classical college studies. The Graphic Design graduate is in a better position to get a better job outside of the game industry, should that person be economically forced out of it.
Additionally, a Graphic Design graduate & VG artist who has trouble finding work in the game industry can change his career to Graphic Design. Or Motion Graphics (which is literally nothing more than an animated design). Or any number of artistic fields that use the computer as a primary tool. You won't even have to go back to school for more certification, you can just study on your own and push your portfolio in the direction you want to go.
I bet it's probably the absolute best degree an artist can get in these difficult times.
Because seriously, do you think things will get better? Common house-hold minerals are slated to run out in the next few decades unless new sources are found. Oil is running out. Pollution's getting worse. Population's are exploding. Fiat currencies are failing. Corruption is running rampant. This isn't the golden age anymore. We're in for a long period of hardship, possibly followed by disaster.
And in the mean time, do you want to be an unemployed guy bumming off his girlfriend and parents desperate for that dream job? Or do you want to have the option of starting a serious career that's in real demand when it looks as though that dream was just that - nothing more than a dream?
Life sucks. That was the other thing I learned. We're often not going to be able to do what we want to do. But we can think ahead, and put ourselves in a position where it won't seem as bad when we fail to reach our goal.
So go to school. Get a degree people can appreciate without rolling their eyes at you. Don't trade in your future for a dream unless you're the second coming of Leonardo Davinci. (some of you here are)
Replies
True story.
Yes. But the good news is, anyone can get a degree. I'm broke as hell and yet I can afford to stay in college faaaar longer than I should have.
I mentioned some jobs a GD graduate could get. Often a business (especially if it's government related or publicly funded), will want to see a degree - even if it isn't related to the task. It's just a fact that people respect people with degrees in the classical studies. And without it, there's nothing to separate you from some bum off the street (not that they'd be any less deserving, but this is their logic).
As a result, you need a degree to run a copy machine or answer a phone.
If you don't have a degree, then you must either be grandfathered in (2 years experience running the copy machine!), or you're stuck dealing with the 'uncultured' occupations.
I don't think it's dishonest to present your degree in a generalized way by calling it an "art degree," and most people I've dealt with don't delve much deeper than that. By the time they do, hopefully you will have had a chance to demonstrate your proficiency so that it won't matter anymore.
I do agree that most people should go to college though.
plus uni is a just a good fun time to be had be all, and you get loads of time to skill yourself up to whatever career you want to go for
just dont blow all of it on booze,
blow half of it on work, and the other half on booze :P
Also lower level college degrees of most kinds have greatly diminished in terms of job hunting boosts and payment increases as a greater % of the population goes on to college.
We're just going to have to wait this out, eventually the economy will stabilize... we hope.
First off, more than anything else, your post / story comes across as 'this is what I'm doing after a lot of hesitation and uncertainty, so it's the best choice for any artist these days.' It also smacks of you trying to convince and rationalize your decision to yourself as the best option given the present economy etc.
I'm sorry, but graphic design degrees are often as useless as game design degrees, in the eyes of potential employers outside of the creative industries. They're often just as empty in terms of the actual curricula, and often share the major disadvantages that game design courses do - lots of button-pushing, lots of instructors telling people to do tutorials they could've found online, not much in the way of actual artistic instruction, or the principles of design.
Not to mention every scene kid with a cracked copy of Photoshop is a 'graphic designer', devaluing the benefits of a formal qualification, and the market is completely saturated with talentless graduates of these poor courses - just like games.
My wife graduated with a degree in graphic design about eight years ago, and it's done absolutely fuck all except land us in $20k of debt (a conservative figure these days), and she's been asked to physically present it once - and that was for a Government military contractor requiring security clearance.
As for finding work in offices or temping or whatever, having a degree doesn't make anything easier, and can often be a red-flag to a potential employer. Due to the economic situation, employers can and do find career receptionists or mailroom guys, and don't need to give the job to someone with a degree that's going to bail as soon as a 'real' job comes up.
Time and again, my wife was passed over for day gigs in offices because they saw her experience and her degree, and thought 'yeah, right, this one's a flight risk.'
People always find reasons not to do what they want to do, in the name of 'job security'. Other industries are just as shaky, and experience the same rollercoaster hiring / firing trends - we just don't hear as much about them, because this forum focuses on the video game industry.
TL;DR - job security is a myth in any industry, times are tough for everyone, and a degree in graphic design won't make you any more or less credible than a game art graduate in the eyes of an employer outside the industry. If it makes you feel better / safer / whatever, then power to you.
The people I see getting laid off in droves are the kids thinking the degree trumps the portfolio.
We'll talk when you get out of school, get a kick ass job and have paid off the crushing student loans. The perspective is much different once you get out of the tunnel. You might actually do a good job of predicting what lays in store for you but honestly I'll take advice from people who have been through the tunnel before.
The moving and suffering menial wages is only for entry level who are risky ventures. A studio will always pay to attract and keep talent. In those massive lay offs they are the people who stay and start the next project. The difference isn't in the degree or often how long they've worked, its how good they are and how valuable to the company they have become. If you're a entry level guy who was brought on to slam out trashcans for 14hr days then don't be shocked if you get S-Canned. Disposable labor will always be disposable, so make sure you're invaluable.
An old graphic design co-worker who is now retired, put it to me this way when I was still in school shortly before I dropped out. If you're house is on fire what are you going to save, your family album or your degree on the wall? What if someone already grabbed the photos, what next, your degree or your portfolio? Back then it was a physical portfolio.
"Don't bother with shit you wouldn't save from a burning building"
"Any job worth keeping, the people you'll want to work for, will have the same level of passion for the same things you hold important."
"It's just easier to work for people when everyone's goals align"
It's advice that has stuck with me and when I see it being said on polycount by people I trust and respect, it only reinforced what I was told.
It's about the experience you show in your portfolio. How you get that experience is up to you. Just keep in mind that you don't need to work on a game to practice and that you don't need shipped titles to show your experience.
Most of best talented artists/designers I've worked with (and I've been fortunate to work with some of the best in the industry) did not go to school for anything, at all.
It's actually *not* very common for *good* artists/programmers/designers to go long periods without employment. Companies are generally always looking for good people. Yes, occasionally good people have a bad string of luck.. but most of the time, the people having trouble finding jobs are the ones who can't keep up.
There's nothing definitive or absolutely right about anything in your post.
IMO, leaving this post up with this title, unedited, is going to be incredibly misleading for all the readers here who are actually looking for real advice. To those of you: this is not that.
If you want to get a decent backup-career degree, why not actually get a decent one? Like something accounting/marketing/business related.
Hey at least it wasn't emo.
Thanks for sharing, some of your posts (esp Mark's and Dan's) are particularly insightful. Again, thank you.
edit/additional:
I hope I haven't made enemies or hurt my chances of finding work by posting that. I pretty much admit it was a pile of nonsense written by someone who doesn't know anything, and I've apologized for it. I normally don't make it a point to troll forums are present myself as a douchebag...
I'm getting a degree exactly for what what Dan said,
I'm really regretful for presenting this face to the community, and it would be nice if someone could delete this thread. The internet is forever, and I will be remembered as the guy who told a bunch of game art professionals with years of experience to finish college.
I've got a few of these cesspool threads to my name, I'm sure Perna could vouch for that
And here I was thinking we were going to get another cat thread. Damn kids acting somewhat mature and reasonable.
Bottom line is, you need to do what you think is best for you. That doesn't always translate to everyone else which is something to keep in mind when people give you advice, heh.
What's been my major discouragement is the people I find in many of my classes. Every geek and their digital-girlfriend wants to make video games and get into the industry. Some of these guys have been married for 10 years with kids, but they act like they're right out of high school. What really gets me down is the work they produce. I don't want to come off as superior in any way (I'm defiantly one of the lesser artists on PC) but I see a lot of talentless garbage coming out on presentation days. It's very discouraging to think that this could be the results of my education; a sad montage of unrealized dreams and pathetic attempts.
But I feel a lot of encouragement from this community, and I feel that there is hope and purpose to honing my skills and getting an education. If I can make myself valuable, that is.
I want to make a portfolio, people keep asking me about it. I need that new damn computer. Ugh. Screw dating, this is more important.
I'm forced to agree. Having tried to find a girlfriend, I've discovered that it is more effort than it's worth. What ever happens happens, whatever doesn't doesn't. I don't want kids, I don't even like kids, and I don't want a ball and chain forcing me to stay in Arkansas. The only major industry here is the Hospitals, rice, and... fishbait.
I was so sure of myself with school for once. Now I'm not anymore. I guess the good news is that I'm not ready to find work anyway - so until I am, I might as well stay in school and keep my school job.
I suppose that's one real benefit to school. It'll give you the time you need (especially if you work on campus) to figure out what you want to do, and develop your skills towards those ends.
I have... probably the best possible cg artist student job you can imagine - short of actually working at a studio.
Here's a picture of camera men from a local TV station filming a student inside the CAVE.
CAVE stands for Cave Automatic Virtual Environment. It's the modern answer to the futuristic holodeck. (more on that here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_Automatic_Virtual_Environment)
Here's a video of my boss explaining what we do [ame]
The building behind him was given to me as a cad file by a local architectural firm. It's actually an older iteration of the new building here on campus. I had to import it into Max, clean it up, reapply materals (textures and whole materials are often lost in the conversion from a Revit, to an Autocad, to a DWG file that can be read by Max and exported after heavy editing out to WRL (VRML).
I'd probably be a fool to give this up before I have to.
That just made me feel bad man...I just finished college 2 years ago and now I am back at college
...why must I always hear that from people already much more talented than I am...
OFF TOPIC
Oh shit. I want to work with caves (and vr balls) for installations. Does your school open it up for MFA work? Or is it only for "serious" items. University of Illinois is the one who came up with the Cave system.
WTF are they still using vRML for? Can you import your own engines? Im sure say UDK could be modded easy to have 4 cameras around the avatar. Just need one hell of a graphics card.
PM me if you want to blab.
I think it's like that in any education but the difference with artistic courses is that the result of bad work is way more obvious if you only want to do the bare minimum.
I sometimes wonder how some people passed 3 years in the course that I'm in with nothing to really show for it.
But anyway i think any artist that is serious about what he wants to do is on a board like polycount seeking the additional information he/she needs to become a better artist. And the better you get the better the chance of landing a job is.
At least i do hope so :P
That's a weird analogy. I wouldn't save my high school diploma ahead of other things either, but I definitely wouldn't recommend anyone drop out of high school to work on his game art portfolio.
That depends on where you went to school. If you've earned a degree for Art Center, Carnegie Mellon, RISD or similar, it'll open doors for you that an associates from a two-year community college won't. I got my masters degree from a top 30 school and it gets me calls from headhunters before they've even see my portfolio.
I don't think there are any game-centric degrees out there that are worth the paper they're printed on, but many other design fields do put a lot of emphasis on where you studied, especially when you're starting out.
I don't remember telling anyone to drop a free education, public high school or college. Especially in countries where higher ed is paid for, you would be a fool not to go, especially if you think you might look for work outside of your country.
Just to think before they take on mountains of debt. What is this going to do my future, how am I really going to pay this off, is what I'm going into debt for really worth it or will I be going to school full time and studying full time in my off hours. If the answer is "its paid for, or free" go for it.
In the case of high school, Mc Donalds won't even touch you if you don't at least have a GED so its a no brainier, do your time, take your tests and don't be in such a hurry to become an adult, you have the next 60-70-80 years to be one no need to rush. If you've put in 10-11 years you might as well put in the last 1-2 especially when it doesn't cost you anything.
With the advice I was given, he was trying to get me to think about priorities. I was knocking myself dead working to pay for school. I decided that I wasn't going into debt to get higher ed, it was going to be paid for as I went. I had seen what student loans did to my older brother and his friends. It extended that poor broke student lifestyle well into their late 20's and mid 30's. They all landed the jobs they wanted but its hard to buy a house or get decent car when you have a school riding your bank account.
What the school was trying to net me, I had already snagged and the experience and the portfolio I had built up in that short time was better than any degree I was going to get. "Cut your losses, save your money and really dig into your career, you're spreading yourself too thin." Is what I walked away from that conversation with.
Now if the degree I was chasing was more traditional art centric and if the school had little more weight behind it, I would of sucked it up and kept going. But it was a "graphic arts degree", same as the OP, what they where teaching I had already done harder and more complex stuff. It was pointless to keep paying for crap I already knew so I could land a job that I already had. I'm glad he opened my eyes to it. He saved me 2 years tuition and I dove into work and worked my way up the ladder instead of just treating it as a pay check.
My point is that the paper itself has no value, which is what your friend's proverb seems to suggest. I wouldn't save my diplomas in a fire, either, but that doesn't mean I don't value my education.
Where is everyone looking to go to school that has such back-breaking debt? With a combination of scholarships, grants and working on-campus jobs, I got through school (both degrees) with about $15,000 in debt. Paid back over 15 years, and accounting for tax credits and the like, I pay a bit over $100 a month. It doesn't thrill me, cutting that check every 30 days, but it's not a real hardship. I've been out of college for about a decade, so maybe this has changed, but there was a ton of virtually 'free' money out there for people who went after it. I got a $500 grant one quarter and later was told I was the only person who applied for it.
For the last decade a lot of schools have seen double digit hikes every year some as much as 25-30% and those hikes have gotten worse since the down-turn. Schools are laying off teachers, which means less seats to go around so lower enrollment at a time when there are more students then ever. So those fewer who get in, have to pay higher costs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition#Economic_and_social_concerns
It was a big deal in 2007 and its only gotten worse since:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2007-01-12-college-tuition-usat_x.htm
The gov has been trimming financial aid to save money and to discourage schools from raising tuition. The days of a tons of free credit floating around to highly risky people with no credit history is pretty much past. If they do get a loan it's probably from a group looking to take advantage of them, here take 40k, but I only need 30k? But who cares use the money on stuff you need, don't mind the 21% interest...
I didn't know any of that. Good post, thanks.
This reminded me of an insight I gained during a hiatus from dev work.
I was temping for a Chartered Accountant school. One of my duties was double checking if applicants (all college grads) meet the minimum requirements of the school - it's like THE post-grad school for CAs so they could get their pro designation in Canada.
Now, CAs are paid pretty fucking good. What shocked me looking at transcripts was that a lot of underachievers are able to attend this highly selective school as long as they've taken the minimum course requirements and have graduated from universities (doesn't matter if it was an elite school or not).
Doesn't matter if you're straights A's or have a smattering of D's or Fails during your university days. As long as you finish, grad, and paid the entry fees you still have a good chance of getting the coveted designation.
I don't have first hand info of what percentage of high achievers vs underachievers actually finish the CA course and get the designation, but I was still impressed that people who fucked up a lot in their college days but still carried on whatever program they were on still had the chance to position themselves for a higher income bracket as the elite brain nerds of their class.
We still use VRML because no one wants to make a new model viewer. In-house programs are made all the time though - just not by me. At the moment we're using VGeo, which supports VRML and a couple other weird/old formats. I've heard of someone making an Unreal Tournament mod that could sync up and do this but that's also outside of my capabilities at the moment.
Heh, now you're scaring me. Does owing 22k mean it's too late for me to drop out?
On a side note: If you need just that little extra push to get motivated, just remember that your going to die.
I somehow neglected to add it to my profile. 'could have sworn it was up there.
I haven't exactly asked for crits on my porfolio, and I won't for a while, but if you really want to look at it, it's http://trancerobot.com
I know you said you weren't asking for crits... but I have a couple for you anyways.
You need more game-ready assets. All you have is high-poly work... but you need to show that you can bake normals, optimize low poly models for today's standards, show wireframes and texture flats... basically your portfolio doesn't look like a game art portfolio at the moment.
That's because I wasn't into game art at first. I'm interested now because that seems to be where the demand is for character modelers. I'll have some low poly stuff ready to show soon.
Of course, I know it isn't quite that extreme, but I live in Arkansas. I'm also constantly flat broke... I'm not going anywhere without a better job. The plan I have so far basically goes like this:
* Continue to work at school for small wage
* Graduate
* Work at Walmart until I've saved enough to move to California or North Carolina
* Move
* Work at Walmart until I got a career starting job in the industry.
If you work at Walmart in California you're probably barely making it. Then of course there's the possibility that I'll never get into that dream industry. Then what? Save up and move back to Little Rock so that I can continue an illustrious career at Walmart?
Even worse is the alternative plan, in which I drop out and go straight to Walmart. I mean hell, I might as well.
That's my problem with this. Some of you guys have an all or nothing attitude, where you sacrifice so much for a particular kind of job, not realizing you'd probably be better off skipping the game industry thing all together.
Then this happens:
Today I learned I may have a future in architecture. My boss, I, and the people who run a contracting company here had lunch after we demonstrate the Cave to them. This company learned about us through their contacts at another architecture firm that's worked with us for the past year.
Over lunch, they told me they were looking for someone like me who can use Revit and basically do what I do for the lab - but without the cool Cave part. They call it BIM, or Building Information Management. I'm not completely sure what it's all about at the moment but I am reading about it.
I'll be staying in touch with them and teaching myself Revit (thanks Autodesk for the free student software!). If they are serious, I will be serious. As a result I could possibly change my major to Construction Management, get my degree, and graduate all the while working for this company. My current boss even suggested they might even offer to pay my way through school, and that it would be wise to stay at UALR and graduate.
Of course, the option wouldn't even be available had I not fell in love with 3d modeling. So it's not all for nothing at least. I mean, it's not like I don't enjoy modeling, it's just I'm in a situation where... I need to start a career of some type, and I'd be happy doing anything related to 3d(and was a real job)
Besides, when I was little, and everyone else wanted to be an Astronaut, the President, or a pro basketball player, I wanted to be an architect. If this works out, I'd think that would be kinda nice, to land so close to what I had wanted when I was little.
So this probably ends my brief experience here at Polycount as a game artist. I still love you guys though, but I don't think the game industry is for me.
When I was in school I thought I had one of the stronger portfolios, but I knew I wasn't where I wanted/needed to be, and went into a bit of a slump towards graduation.
I had a classmate who could hook me up with a CAD type job back near home, and decided to take it. My thinking was that at least it was 3d related, and the pay and benefits were actually decent. I languished there for almost 3 years before I was able to force myself to put together another portfolio and really try to get into games.
I didn't know anyone in the industry, but I sent portfolios out to game companies that I was interested in anyway. It was a combination of barely being good enough, timing, and a whole lot of luck that I was able to convince ArenaNet to take a chance on me, and I'm still here over four years later. I didn't realize until later just how lucky I was to get a full-time character art position without any actual game experience like that. A portfolio of that quality would never even get the time of day here nowadays.
If you can get your portfolio to a high enough quality then your location probably won't be a big deal. A lot of companies should be willing to help you relocate if you get a full-time position. If it's a junior/contract position then it might still be worth it to relocate yourself because your work should improve dramatically once you are working in a real team environment.
Anyway, good luck with everything. You're right that it's not a life or death thing, and this path definitely isn't meant for everyone. It's taken a lot of sacrifices, and continued sacrifices for me, but I'm not sure what I would want to do otherwise.
You were paid a decent wage though right? Could you describe your CAD job some more?
Also I'm surprised some game companies still do that (pay for your relocation). I was told that they used to, back when the industry was younger, but now it's not worth it to invest so much in a new artist.
Yea, technically my position was a "Junior Engineer," but really I just built navy ship models in an antiquated program running on Unix. It was the most backwards way to build stuff, but it was precise and the results could be output for analyses/tests (which I did NOT do!).
Eventually we branched out to do more creative stuff like nice renders and composites, and even some animations. I was able to convince them to invest in programs like Maya for the visual stuff, and we shifted to Rhino3d for the precision stuff. It's surprising how closely related CAD and entertainment driven CG is, and yet how very little sharing of techniques there can be. There are things that you might be able to bring to the table that they might find valuable.
If you've got some sort of military presence in your area then chances are there might be some of this kind of work available. Of course, tight budgets means that even subcontracting with the government is lean these days, but it really is an industry worth looking at as a 3d alternative. A college degree is definitely a plus here, and it's not a bad gig if you can keep the contracts coming (can potentially be more stable than working in games).
Perhaps that architectural lead you have could evolve into something with 3d visuals later if you can prove it. Pretty pictures are always in demand.
It depends on the company and how successful they are. I think most major companies are willing to help relocate mid to senior level positions, but even they probably won't pay for junior/contract level relocation. It comes down to your portfolio and how valuable your services are.
I guess my point is that whether they help you relocate or not, it's something that you probably shouldn't try to do until you think you've got a solid lead. It's probably better to stay where you can live affordably with the help of friends and family while you get yourself ready than to just move somewhere and wing it. That's my opinion anyway.
Maybe it's just because they are driven, I don't think I really sacrificed much getting into the game industry. It actually isn't as hard to get into the game industry as you think - I almost took an jr arch-vis job in 2007 but I took a jr environment art position instead. I count myself lucky because the entertainment industry weathered the economic storm alot better then construction and architecture.
Possibly. Though there are no entertainment jobs here, So I'll take Haikai's advice:
I probably shouldn't say this is it for me and game stuff. One never knows just where they might end up in life.
Thank you guys for your thoughtful responses.
Right now, I have a phone interview next Tuesday with a company across the company for an entry level Environment Artist position. I am going to continue to apply everywhere until one company says "Come on over; you are hired. Welcome aboard, and prove yourself."
I've also gotten calls from Microsoft and another company, all after sending my resume in to around 30 places in the past couple of weeks.
I don't have any shipped titles, yet I am getting interest... and I definitely know my portfolio isn't quite up to snuff, so I have to completely disagree with you trancerobot.
It seems like you are just going off all the negatives others have said instead of saying it from personal experience... Also keep in mind that most negatives people say are from people who are also just grasping onto all the negatives, and that actually hurts their chances a lot. Thinking negatively about something to that degree basically ensures that you will not succeed, because it comes through in your actions.... even if you don't notice. Every single job I see that I think I am qualified for (even some that, going by their requirements, say I am not qualified), I apply to.
The only thing they can do is not contact you or say no, but at that point, once you apply, you're kept in most systems and might get a call months down the line, a week later, or days later.
Honestly, getting hired is not about luck. It's all about you, your attitude, and the effort you put towards applying for every single company which has an open position for your skills, and even companies' which are not hiring.
Remember: getting hired in and of itself is a job that has to be taken seriously.
Thanks for your input. I'm in school, now is not the time to send out my portfolio for video game jobs out of state. What I have here is an opportunity to work a good job doing something sort-of similar (it's a kind of 3d modeling at least), while I continue my studies in school.
Game artists are in-demand.
Also, the bigger companies (400 employees or more) have no issue with relocating talented individuals. Crytek relocated someone I knew to Germany to start work there, and he's been there for a couple years now. I also know of roughly 10 others that have been relocated in the past 3 years alone for Crytek, and I most likely haven't heard about all of the employees they've relocated for jobs.
That's great that you have a good thing going, but don't sell yourself short. If you truly want to go with game development and would rather do that instead of architecture, then go for it. Don't go for a job just because it's easy to get it. That said, if you really want to do this for a living, more power to you!