3D Coat, Topogun, Wrapit - Dare to compare?
polycounter lvl 9
Hello all,
I'm in need of a retopo middleware for my Zbrush/Max pipeline and need help deciding which to go with. I work in game development as a prop artist but want to be a character modeler when I grown up.
I've downloaded the demo for 3DCoat and Topogun.
Here are my thoughts.
Topogun:
3DCoat
Wrapit
Any thoughts folks?
Thanks!
I'm in need of a retopo middleware for my Zbrush/Max pipeline and need help deciding which to go with. I work in game development as a prop artist but want to be a character modeler when I grown up.
I've downloaded the demo for 3DCoat and Topogun.
Here are my thoughts.
Topogun:
- Simple
- Very easy to lay down the base geo.
- Excellent use of translucency in the viewport. Makes it very easy to see what I'm laying down over the reference mesh.
- Seems to be without bloat
- Can bake out maps (though I haven't tried that yet)
- Only 100 bucks
3DCoat
- Fairly easy to get the geo built/quads laid down
- Viewport representation of retopo geo and reference mesh not as well rendered (transparency.)
- Has layers for multiple retopo elements
- Seems a little convoluted/bloated
- Has a number of more retopo tools as well as an auto-retopo (though I didn't find it viable for my game model needs.)
- Has a bunch of other bells and whistles (ie. 3D paint.)
- 350 bucks.
Wrapit
- Sadly no demo so I haven't tried it.
- Appears to be an awesome hybrid between manually creating retopo geo and an automatic system.
Any thoughts folks?
Thanks!
Replies
personally, I use (and love) topogun. It's just a shame it's another separate program. If anything ZBrush or Max should have their tools more like topogun.. right now they both have viable options but they aren't as user friendly.
catsytle - I agree that the graphite tools are viable, however I don't find them nearly as friendly as Topogun or 3DCoat.
I love topogun, but hands in it are just a massive pain
what I do in that case is block in placeholder cylinders, import them, then simply move the verts onto it. or do that part in max.
Wrapit is really shooting its self in the foot by not offering a demo.
What is it that people find tedious about doing hands with it?
it is unfortunately lacking some of the newer fancy tools and some things like extruding edges or sliding edge loops arent in it(unless i have missed them all this time!)
it also has some really nice baking and mesh projection features that I dont know if 3dc has(anyone know?)
zbrush's topo tools are basic and get the job done but it will take alot longer than using the other programs imo.
you cant really go wrong with any of them. it kind of boils down to the interfaces of them and differences in workflow.
this not entirely right, i guess you mean that meshes clip through the surface of the highres? it was somewhat pissing me off at the beginning as well, but it helps seeing how different the lowpoly is from the highpoly. if you want it to render more like topogun, just push the zbuffer value way higher, 50 should do for pretty much anything.
Topogun is awesome in that it's a solid app, with in my opinion the best mesh visibility for retopo.
It's also lightning fast and can handle very dense models.
3DCoat is great, but not worth the money if you only want it for retopology. If you're gonna make use of the other stuff (the painting is awesome) then I'd say go for it since it's a nice balance between the tools in both Topogun and WrapIt.
WrapIt is incredible, but it is still a Max plugin. The retopo helpers are unique, and very powerful, but you're gonna be using Max tools, which has it's pros and cons. The biggest downside I've found is that you're relying on Max to handle your high poly mesh which it doesn't cope with as well as Topogun. In my experience, I've had to optimize meshes a lot more to work comfortably in Max than I would if I was doing the same in Topogun.
My workflow is usually a combo between Topogun and WrapIt. I'll use Topogun to quickly lay out things like faces/heads, accessories etc, then anything cylindrical - arms, legs, fingers etc I'll handle in WrapIt since it's so quick and easy.
If you just want retopo, I'd go with Topogun and WrapIt together, if you will make use of 3DCoats other tools, I'd say go with that.
Beyond retopo, 3DCoat IS a great price if you want all the rest of it's tools, which are awesome. The Voxel tech continues to mature and the 3d texturing is really good.
Topogun has fallen behind a bit, true, but their Version2 is coming up which (they claim) will have all those bells and whistles. And the upgrade from v1 (current) to v2 is supposed to be free. Which means you really can't go wrong with it for its price.
Right on, thanks Neox! Worked like a charm.
Anyhow, I'm really stuck between 3D-Coat and Topogun. Wrapit will just have to wait until there is a demo (which is supposedly in the works.)
I like the "feel" of Topogun waaay more than 3D-Coat. However 3D-Coat has more tools and isn't as buggy as Topogun. Considering the student or 3D-Coat "lite" is only 100 bucks, money really isn't as much of an issue now. I don't need 3D-Coat's other features as I use Zbrush for sculpting and painting.
Topogun has a version 2 supposedly on the way. I'd REALLY like to know what is coming. There are a few features that it's missing that would most definitely put me over the edge towards Topogun.
Still playing with demos.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Also 3DCoat has some great paint tools. The Normal map painting can be exceptionally usefull for fine detail
http://www.topogun.com/media/videos.htm
All you need to know.
My apologies for the public hemming and hawing. I'm a tight-wad and HATE buyer's remorse.
That is, unless you're getting the 3dcoat educational license, which is the same price as topogun. In which case, you're getting quite a deal. Real decent Retopology tool, plus a 3d painting tool that's second only to Bodypaint (which is priced ridiculously at $1k).
So, do the math I guess. It depends if you're going for the 3dcoat educational license or not.
this is a pretty random point, as it could apply to any of these tools, zbrush's uprades have been free so far and 3dcoat's as well, we will see how wrapit goes on but i kinda doubt that he will charge people for upgrades on a plugin
if there is a way to customize 3dcoats retopo functions to meet that kind of versatility, I would love to know!
but nex is also built around a pure modeling functions within maya as well... soooo yeah.
waiting for Christmas to get topogun. i've heard great things about the AO bakes out of there as well
I rate nex as the best topology solution available - assuming you have maya. The combination of focused tools and mouse input is unmatched. Before that I was using a custom mouse config in Silo for doing retopology - less focused tools but mouse customization still enables you to build a fairly fluid workflow with what you have. I mostly just use 3d coat these days though, so I'd still love to see mouse customization make its way in someday.
I tried the Topogun demo and it kept crashing for me.
If I was going to buy anything I think I would take a chance on wrapit.
Yeah, good point.
I guess I'm a bit paranoid about those things. Considering Max/Maya and those big types don't give free updates, and they charge for every version. zBrush hasn't done that yet, but they haven't said that they won't. It's possible that they'll come up with ZB5 and decide that it's a paid upgrade. Likewise for 3DCoat, which is more of a competitor to zBrush. So far it's been free upgrades, but there's no guarantee. Topogun however, does say that future upgrades (like from 1.6 to 2.0) will be free.
Minor point I guess, but it's there nonetheless.
I ended up getting Topogun. It's simplicity and baking tools really won me over. Furthermore, the developer has promised a version 2 that will add some features that are similar to features found in 3D-Coat. He's also implemented a means of making the license portable from machine to machine.
I could see myself getting 3D-Coat someday as the UV and painting tools look pretty useful. I'm still keeping an eye out for a Wrapit Demo...
In the meanwhile I'll stick to the tools I have/already know.
Thanks again!
-Bump
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/max-retopo
****edit***
also version 1.5 looks a lot better, although a can not find a download link, hopefully it will be free too.
[ame]
For straight up retopo, I now use that last script that arshlevon posted. I'm using it with Max 2011 and it runs nice and smooth. Using a maxscript lets you work in the same software you're used to and with all the poly tools you're used to.
Thumbs up from me.
The tools for retopology are wonderful, though can bug out with inside points on a surface that are not selectable. Unless your camera goes to odd or inside angles.
I very much love maya's quad draw. The most fluid and easy to use retopology toolset i've used with no bugs of the sort. As with 3ds Max's graphite tools. I find them quite poor, and knowing it's easy to setup (not as easy as maya's) but when doing so. You have to tell max to how far an offset your new topology will be created at. (This blows!) Often times more than I can count, gives no accurate results. (Just like max's uv's system compared to maya's) ok rant over, haha
and still no production ready automatic solution around!
p.s.: I was looking for a thread like this for a couple of days, and finally found it! so I really hope the discussion is still up and that the thread is still alive as well as TopoGun is alive!
Then I was introduced to Topogun, and hated everything else.
I'm still a huge fan of Topogun. It's just so built for that kind of work.
BUT - I finally got off my high horse and tried Maya's new retopo tools, and was a bit surprised by how competent it is.
So when I don't have access to Topogun (or time), I recommend giving Maya's tools a go. err, from 2014 above. Preferably 2015