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What have you sacrificed for game art?

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mixeh
polycounter lvl 8
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mixeh polycounter lvl 8
Hey all,

I've gone out with a very sweet loving girl for 3 years. She recently broke up with me (4 days ago) as she can't cope with the idea of me applying and possibly moving to work interstate - which is my dream. This has almost killed me but I was supportive of her decision. Given that I have not been employed yet, I feel like I've lost a huge part of my life to persue something I may not even get work in. I spend all my available time actively working and improving my skills in 3d - and having this large blow to me, it's reaching that point of desperation.

Where I reside no employment in game art exists, so I feel unfortunately our break up was necessary, but still feel very very guilty.

I'm putting this out there to see if anyone else has experienced the same or similar thing in their life, taking big sacrifices to live their dreams in this field. Could possibly make me feel better haha.

Sorry to go all emo on you guys,
thanks :).

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  • samgriffiths
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    People move away from loved ones all the time.
    I would be supportive if a female in my life wanted to pursue a career by moving away, in the long run it's better for them.

    I had to leave some cool friends back home when I moved.

    Unless you want to work at tesco or sainsburys, you will always have to relocate for a decent job. this is just life.
  • Tom Ellis
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    From my experience... I sincerely recommend you don't sacrifice anything just yet.

    I've spent the last 2 years working my ass off to try and get a job in game art and it still hasn't happened, and likely won't for some time to come. Now that's partly due to the job market at the moment, but partly due to me simply still not being good enough for employment after two years. It may be another 3 or 4 or 10 until I am, who knows! Some people seem to have a huge natural ability and after a year of working hard they drop happily into their dream job, the amount of time one takes to get to a good level varies.

    But what I will say is don't sacrifice anything.

    I basically sacrificed my social life, my hobbys and pastimes, to lock myself in my office and work work work. Now fortunately, my girlfriend of 5 years is incredibly supportive and despite not seeing much of me for a couple years, she's still as awesome as ever. The same can be said about my friends/family. but I don't know how much longer they'll be like that, so for that reason (as I documented in another similar thread recently), I'm putting my life, friends and family first, and if I get a job in games, then so be it, that'll be awesome.

    Who's to say you are guaranteed a job? I don't mean to be negative but you may still be looking for your first industry job in 5-10 years. If you carry on losing people and never make it, you will regret it.

    In terms of the moving state thing; some people are happy to move, some aren't. Remember there's always freelance opportunities. While hard to get, competitive, and quite insecure, working freelance means you get industry experience, and can work for companies around the world without leaving your home town. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing I don't know, but if you're good enough, and you're not into leaving town, then it's an option.

    I dunno, I feel kinda strongly about this since I've been so stupidly obsessed with 'getting an industry job' for almot two years, and given the cicumstances (still no job) I regret missing out on a lot things.

    It's really not my place to say, but if I was in your position, I'd call up your girlfriend, let games take a backseat, work on them while she's out, make the most of your free time and see what happens.
  • Nysuatro
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    Sacrifice is not always the answer for a future in the game industry. I personally made a choice to stop with my hobbies and not have a girlfriend while I am doing my studies that took over most of my time. But I said to myself that when I finish my studies, I can restart with those thing I had to give up in the beginning. This way I don't really sacrifice a lot. It is just more an investment.
  • Habboi
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    Habboi sublime tool
    I've spent the last 2 years working my ass off to try and get a job in game art.

    Sorry to hear. However your portfolio isn't doing you justice either. It's a mix match of CG and badly presented environments that don't show off your prop work. I'd personally ask for feedback on it and update it.

    It's true though, some people are just more naturally gifted at art than others. My theory is that we can all reach the top level but we all start off at different floors. Just keep at it and eventually you'll get to the top without even realising it. I look back and think what shit I created and I get better every year.

    As for my sacrafice, I have nothing to lose. My family support my career choice but feel it isn't stable enough. We'll see.
  • WarrenM
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    Primarily ... my body. I should have sat up straight for the last 20 years.
  • mixeh
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    mixeh polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks everyone for your feedback.

    Creationtwentytwo I somewhat agree with what you say, but I don't want to mess with my ex's head in terms of whether I'm staying or going-if that makes sense, because I really don't know yet. It's a really tough thing. I wish we could have stayed together for a bit longer to see what I would make of myself first, before predicting what was going to happen.

    And haha @ warren's sacrifice.
  • Mark Dygert
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    Everyone gets their heart broken, it sucks you pick up the pieces and move on. It's probably a good thing because now you can throw yourself into your art and work on getting better.

    I've always thought life should go:
    Step1) Get out of school.
    Step2) Get your shit together, get a job, get a place, buy toothpaste, stand on your own.
    Step3) Look for some tail to chase.
    Step4) After getting your heart stomped on 3-4 times and or the first sighting of a single gray hair, think about settling down.

    It was a good test of the relationship, better to find out it wouldn't survive that kind of stress than to have her begrudgingly go along and then have it fall apart. People grow and change the true test of a couple is how well they adapt to how the other person changes and they will change, everyone does.

    Better to live a few weeks with a broken heart knowing that "she wasn't the one" and keep looking than to force either of you to suffer miserably.
  • mixeh
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    mixeh polycounter lvl 8
    Vig you can critique art awesomely, and same with life, I thank you. :)
  • samgriffiths
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    Vig wrote: »
    Everyone gets their heart broken, it sucks you pick up the pieces and move on. It's probably a good thing because now you can throw yourself into your art and work on getting better.

    I've always thought life should go:
    Step1) Get out of school.
    Step2) Get your shit together, get a job, get a place, buy toothpaste, stand on your own.
    Step3) Look for some tail to chase.
    Step4) After getting your heart stomped on 3-4 times and or the first sighting of a single gray hair, think about settling down.

    It was a good test of the relationship, better to find out it wouldn't survive that kind of stress than to have her begrudgingly go along and then have it fall apart. People grow and change the true test of a couple is how well they adapt to how the other person changes and they will change, everyone does.

    Better to live a few weeks with a broken heart knowing that "she wasn't the one" and keep looking than to force either of you to suffer miserably.


    This is how I would of put it if I was better at typing english, basically shit happens and this isn't a fairytale world.
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 12
    Amen Vig.
    I wouldn't let her hold you back, it's sounds like she's behaving unreasonably - she should want what's best for you. Serious relationships are about compromise, and by the sounds of it she wasn't willing to, despite the fact that you aren't sure you're going anywhere else yet!
  • roosterMAP
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    roosterMAP polycounter lvl 14
    Ive sacrificed my grades. They are a bit lower than they could be... but they're not bad. I have too much fun with 3D to slow down anyways. lol

    Make sure your always in the drivers seat of your life!!!
  • Firebert
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    Firebert polycounter lvl 15
    consider this a clean slate.

    move where the jobs are.
    not being local to a large pool of opportunities will hold you back tremendously. while studios will sometimes shell out the cash for relocation, your portfolio/art test/experience has to give them enough reason to. some companies will seriously only look for local candidates, even for seniors or leads, simply because they don't have the resources to compensate for relocation of artists/programmers, etc. even if you are local, it is still difficult. you will still have to commit a lot of time to get where you need to be/want to be in order to get hired.

    granted the economy is keeping things down atm, it is slowly picking back up. other experienced artists are finding new opportunities, moving out of the industry, or just going to contract work. being where the jobs are is a big plus to gaining the experience you need. not being tied down is an even bigger plus.

    i'm not one to shell out my personal sacrifices, but i will tell you this...

    everyone here has sacrificed something to get where they are today. not only to break in, but to make their projects succeed, and in turn, become successful.

    it's a job, and every job in every field requires sacrifice for you to achieve personal and company wide success.
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 12
    Completely agree with Vig.

    Do whatever you need to do to get where you want to go. Get selfish for a little while and focus on yourself for once. It actually sounds like your gettin it done dude, so dont worry - just a matter of buying yourself some time, using that time wisely and before you know it, youll be there.
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    Yeah, Vig's 4-step program is the way it's been for me. I'm just finishing step2 now, moving into step3, and I gotta say, it feels good :)

    Sure there were good times to be had in college. Living life, getting drunk, blah blah blah. But nothing compares to the sheer, almost awe-inspiring, feeling of being independent, knowing full well that you're doing something that you LOVE doing, as opposed to some random job. I can't stress that enough. When I got my first real industry job, the feeling of knowing that I'm doing something I love doing for a living (as opposed to moving furniture, flipping burgers etc, all of which I've done) is amazing. And, it makes step3 that much easier, as I'm finding out now.

    I wouldn't look at it as a sacrifice, as much as it is an opportunity. It took me something like 3 years of basically nothing but staying at home and working on my stuff, with the occasional hang-out with friends/girlfriend to make something of it. So I guess you can say I sacrificed 3 years? But I don't know, I look at it as an investment rather than a sacrifice.

    The most important part about that though is that during those 3 years I never looked at it as if I'm giving something up. There was just nothing I preferred doing more during that time.

    Anyway, that's just my 2cents. Not sure if it helps in any way, just thought I'd share.
  • maze
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    ...mmm I gave up (even though I tried keep doing them...)...travelling, surf, rock climb...snowboard... for almost 2 years, but nothing (good that lasts..) comes without sacrifice in my experience, I ve been doing 3D for almost 2 years now ...before that I was only drawing graffiti here and there... things are going luckily pretty good... at least for the time being, hoping to get back to sports and traveling next year with some freelance projects....hopefully travelling and working that ll rock... wish good luck to everyone its a tough game to keep learning....and do other stuff in life as well... I guess "balance" its not an easy word in this industry......still worth the shot though.
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 13
    So, she just dumped you because she couldn't stand the fact that sooner or later you would need to move to another state, or even possibly another country.
    That means that she's probably very attached to her current life, and she isn't willing to go anywhere else yet. And if she isn't willing to do that, that means that she values more her family, her friends, her city, her life, than your relationship.

    A girl like that is a big no-no for a game artist, not in this industry. You WILL move sooner or later, unless you live in Seattle, Montreal, LA, or some major city with loads of studios, and even so...

    Since the first day I started dating I kept telling my girlfriend what I was getting into, telling her that if she really loves me, she might need to move with me to somewhere else, or better yet, she might even end up moving every 3/4 years for a while.
    Eventually that happened, I moved to Germany and we were apart for 1.5 years, then finally she moved here.

    Now, if she told me that she couldn't take that life. Or if she started to play the "your leaving me for second" card that women really like to play, and wanted to leave I would respect that.

    You're young, and if you ask me your career should come first, you need to build your future. Also, moving aint that bad, it was one of the best experiences I ever did in my life.
  • Rurouni Strife
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    Rurouni Strife polycounter lvl 10
    mixeh, Vig's 4 step program is the way to go. I want to briefly tell you that I lost a girlfriend too because of my own personal plan. And in the end, it was worth it. Broken hearts mend and teach you lessons as well. I've learned and am better for the heartbreak that I suffered. It also transfered to my work. My last portfolio project was made better with the emotion and laser focus I had on it.

    Job hunting for any position is an emotional drain, and even more so for something like games art. If you decide that a girl/whatever is more important to you than your dream job/career that is fine. I decided that she wasn't long before the break up (longer story here but it's not relevant really). It's whatever is going to make you happiest.

    Good luck in life mate!

    PS: If it helps, I'm happier now that I have been in a long long time.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    I once sacrificed a drifter for game art
  • Sean VanGorder
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    Sports. Wanted to play college football as a quarterback.

    If only the art institutes had a football team....
  • Karmageddon
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    Karmageddon polycounter lvl 7
    We've all sacrificed a lot of things. It didn't occur to me til last week that Christmas was coming up until I walked into a Starbucks and saw the decorations. Halloween slipped by and I hardly noticed since I was in a crunch mode at the time and if I didn't have a roommate who was paying more attention I would have missed Thanksgiving too! The biggest thing I've probably sacrificed is having a home. Because of my choices in where to study for college, where to work, quitting work to do portfolio that's just something I've had to give up that I won't take for granted ever again. But in the end I'm happy I did it.
  • Tom Ellis
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    I get that you all like your jobs, but really?

    This 'Work-First > Girlfriend later stuff' seems pretty crazy to me. Either you guys haven't met 'the one' yet, or this industry really aint for me.

    I've been with my girl for 5 years, I'm 25, so not that old... I'm not exagerating when I say if Blizzard rang me up tomorrow and said 'Ok Tom, you've got a job, character artist on the WoW team, we'll need you to move here to Irvine' and my girlfriend didn't like the idea of relocating... I'd choose the girl over the job for sure.

    To me, life is about happiness and enjoying it. Now even if things go to shit with my relationship (I don't expect them to, and of course I don't want them to, but you can never say never) I'm loving every second with my girlfriend.

    Now, we all know a girl can rip out your heart and tear it up real bad, the consensus here seems to be don't let that stop you from job opportunities, but;

    Let's not forget that a job can do exactly the same thing. I wonder if any of the poor bastards at RTW chose work over a long time girlfriend. Also let's not forget crunch time at work, creating art for game projects you may hate... styling hair meshes for Barbies Beachouse Ballroom Bonanza or something.

    I mean sure, if you're like 2 weeks deep into a new relationship then missing out for that would likely be stupid; however choosing a job over a long term girl in my opinion is a little extreme, but that's just my opinion.

    I think it comes down to which you want more, and which you want first... a job or a relationship.

    For me, a job would be wonderful, but a girl to share life with comes first.

    Having said all that, that's probably why I'm still looking for work :D
  • moof
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    moof polycounter lvl 7
    I think anyone in this business has some proclivity towards sacrificing aspects of life that other people take for granted.

    It gets better once you get more settled though. That phase of being shut in and dedicated towards just working is the tough one, but inevitable until you get good enough to just hop from job to job.
  • Jungsik
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    Jungsik polycounter lvl 6
    I still a student but I've thought about this - the bottom line is, in order for you to do what you want you must sacrifice something very important to you - i think it applies to pretty much everything..not just game art - being said, my friends think im crazy xD
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    I've been with my girl for 5 years, I'm 25, so not that old... I'm not exagerating when I say if Blizzard rang me up tomorrow and said 'Ok Tom, you've got a job, character artist on the WoW team, we'll need you to move here to Irvine' and my girlfriend didn't like the idea of relocating... I'd choose the girl over the job for sure.

    This sounds like madness to me hehe :)

    I don't know about blizzard per-se, but basically you're saying a massive opportunity that's essentially a dream? Yeah, I'll give up anything for that. For me, it would be somewhere like Vigil or CCP rather than Blizzard, but yeah, same thing basically. I'd drop anything and move on the spot.

    The thing is though, you were right when you said:
    Either you guys haven't met 'the one' yet, or this industry really aint for me.

    I don't have a "the one", never did. Then again, I'm really not a one woman kind of guy. Every girl I know (which isn't too many at the moment) knows this too, and everyone I know also knows that if I get a good opportunity, I may leave tomorrow. And everyone is also fine with that and happy for me.

    So for me personally, I found a real solid equilibrium in my life right now. Not sure what the future holds exactly.

    One more thing:
    To me, life is about happiness and enjoying it.

    And art isn't it?

    Maybe my mind works in a really backwards sort of way, but I don't personally need anything other than art. Want yes, need? no.
  • Tom Ellis
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    Bigjohn wrote: »

    And art isn't it?


    Totally, art is one of my biggest loves in life. Of all kinds. But art as an interest, and art as a job is two different things entirely. If one day I get a job making art, then that'll be one hell of a bonus, but I'm not gonna drop other things I love in the hope of making money off of it.

    As you say though, that thought is backwards to some people, just not me I guess.
  • crazyfool
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    crazyfool polycounter lvl 13
    For me, a job would be wonderful, but a girl to share life with comes first.

    Having said all that, that's probably why I'm still looking for work :D

    Im with you on that. Me and my lady had our time apart when she went to University and I drove 4 hours every weekend to see her. Then I got a job 2 hours away and she eventually moved in with me. When she had to move home to help her folks out of bankrupcy, I didnt last long and left Climax studios as I hated being away from her. Now Im 24, freelancing and spamming every local studio haha. I have missed out on alot of opportunities of work, mainly being lionhead, rocksteady and loads of university full time lecturing positions around the globe that have been interested. Its not easy but Im really happy right now and commited to making it work. If I had to I would get a retail job until something worked out or something interesting comes along.

    My ladies a keeper :) I would never ever chose work over her because art is good but a partner is better. Just means I gotta work harder to make things work :) plus a wacom doesnt give good hugs and make me breakfast :)

    Games industry keeps tightening its sphincter in the UK though :( not fun right now
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 15
    As always Vig is right on the money IMO.

    If you dont find a person who is supportive of your life you dream to live then there really not the right person for you. Even if you think they are "the one". The thing is there are plently of people who could be "the one" who would support your dream, you just havent met them yet. Most people will more then likely never even get to know 2 thousand other individuals extremely well. Sure you might have met many more people but you wont know all these people well enough to ever make a good decision on who is "the one" or not. There are billions of people in this world and most likely a million people who live in the same city as you. If you think the person you are in love with now is the only possible person you could love this much then your delusional.


    The way I see it is first work on establishing you career and making sure you are doing something you love to do day after day after day. A person who will match you and your life perfectly will eventually come along, its only a matter of time. The world is a big place and so there is no rush to find "the one" right away and lock yourself into a life you only might be half satisfied with.

    Life is about the journey along the road, not the finish line.
  • Tom Ellis
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    Autocon wrote: »

    Life is about the journey along the road, not the finish line.

    Exactly, and if the world ended tomorrow, would you rather know you spent those last years locked in a room making game art, or rather know you were having fun with friends, family and your partner.

    There can be a balance, it doesn't need to be one or the other. Sure it may be harder, it might take longer, but as Crazyfool has shown, it's completely possible.
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 12
    creationtwentytwo: We definitely see the 'job' as 2 completely different things. For me, game art is not a job, its a way of life. Stuff revolves around it thats how I choose to make it anyway. I'm on the other side of the planet from family & friends, moved to a place where I knew absolutely noone.

    But if I could take it back, would I? Never.

    I know my parents / family friends all support me and my decisions, and I'm really happy / lucky to have that support, because without it I would probably be that guy who stays at home or very close to it, trying to make ends meet whatever way I can and still 'dreaming' instead of putting effort into making it a reality.

    Its difficult to explain, but I know one thing for certain, I went through 2 long term relationships and they simply wouldnt support me, actually frowned upon my choices, and it was really tough to even focus on art. But once I realise I had found a real woman, It was clear she was the one. We are married now, and all things are good !

    So its not really a case of job > woman, its more a case of harmony of all things, rather than one or the other. So in your example of if blizzard rang me tomorrow would I go, it wouldnt be a case of me choosing between friends, family or girlfriend, because Im lucky enough to have the support of all of them, I would be silly to refuse, given its always been my dream.

    And I would rather have lived my life the way I wanted too, heading towards my hopes and dreams, than not persued and spent it safe aand secluded with family / friends / loved ones. :) No regrets.
  • Tom Ellis
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    Good points Hazardous, thanks for explaining.

    Out of curiosity, you say you moved across the world and have a great partner, did she move with you or did you meet her in your new location?
  • Skamberin
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    Skamberin polycounter lvl 14
    Ironically I eventually lost all passion for 3D and art in general, while still learning even. Sometimes life just wants everything to go to shit at the same time.

    But as Vig said, you move on, current affairs are just another challenge on the road to success.

    And the tried and true: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    I'm not exagerating when I say if Blizzard rang me up tomorrow and said 'Ok Tom, you've got a job, character artist on the WoW team, we'll need you to move here to Irvine' and my girlfriend didn't like the idea of relocating... I'd choose the girl over the job for sure.

    I'm in the same boat.
  • Anuxinamoon
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    Anuxinamoon polycounter lvl 14
    Good points Hazardous, thanks for explaining.

    Out of curiosity, you say you moved across the world and have a great partner, did she move with you or did you meet her in your new location?

    I moved with him because I got a job offer at the same company! :D

    I just say follow your dreams, and people will gravitate toward you that have the same mindset. :)
    Bumps in the road are very common and with those experiences we can learn to better ourselves.

    Hope everything goes well for you!
  • xvampire
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    xvampire polycounter lvl 14
    is not sacrificial ...
    its a pleasure.

    im 12 hour timezone difference from my hometown ( that means its in the other side of the world)
    but again depends on people, this is how I ve been taught since i was small boi.
    I complained a lot about life, being far etc, but I still choose art.

    there will be no captain sailor job if all people choose to stay with family instead of traveling.
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    So its not really a case of job > woman, its more a case of harmony of all things, rather than one or the other. So in your example of if blizzard rang me tomorrow would I go, it wouldnt be a case of me choosing between friends, family or girlfriend, because Im lucky enough to have the support of all of them, I would be silly to refuse, given its always been my dream.

    Yup, QFT. This is exactly how I feel 100%.

    Hazardous pretty much said everything that I tried to say in the previous page.
  • crazyfool
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    crazyfool polycounter lvl 13
    I think Im lucky that no matter what choice I make, my lady, family and friends would all support me. So I will never have to take that choice of work over partner or vice versa. Im trying to find the balance now in having a great job and a great home life. So far they havent coincided with each other, but Im hopeful :) just gotta work a lil bit harder :D
  • Taylor Hood
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    In terms of general media/technology/3d art/animation, I've spent my entire teenage years learning. I haven't went outside, partied hard or got in trouble.

    When I was nine I started stop motion with clay and I've kept going all the way up till animation in maya.
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 12
    Good points Hazardous, thanks for explaining.

    Out of curiosity, you say you moved across the world and have a great partner, did she move with you or did you meet her in your new location?

    Sure np :) I met her 7 years ago now, back in Australia. She put up with me, and we stayed together, even when I was trying to support us both with freelance work, and we had next to no money and no idea how to make the next rent bill, through thick and thin she was there. But I didnt give up trying, and she didnt give up on me.

    Through guts, determination and MUCH sacrifice we made it through. And yeah she left her family behind to follow me around the world.

    It just so happens that she too was an artist, so over the years we rubbed off on one another and she picked up freelance jobs, and full time positions along side me. ( like she mentioned above )

    I would get a full time position and say hey... my wife is a dab hand too - she has xp, freelance and in house - heres her folio - what say you ? and it somehow it ends up working out!

    So its almost like we had to bear those extreme low points in our lives to rise up like a reborn Phoenix.

    Since that time weve both never looked back and things have only gotten better.

    Sacrifice is necessary I think. Its liberating, exhilirating, and through that experience I discovered mental extremes and limits I never ever thought I was capable of. I also improoved drastically as an artist.

    Heres my skill level just a couple of years ago:

    30svb6r.jpg

    I dont believe I've ever posted this online, shes just one of *MANY* absolute failures that will never see the light of day beyond my old backup drives.

    One last thing, maybe im too proud to say that there has been elements of 'luck' associated with my own case, but thats because I know exactly how hard I had to work, and what I had to do in order to be where I am, and it was in no way easy. I also like to think I'm in control of my own destiny along with each and every other person!
  • mixeh
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    mixeh polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks everyone for your contribution, it's really helped me think a bit clearer. I think definitely, your partner needs to support your career choice, and unfortunately, as much as mine wanted to, it just wasn't in her timid nature to move if i needed too.

    My only regret, is that my portfolio is still a good 4 months off completion (very big guestimate), so I haven't even tested the waters to see whether I will pickup work ANYWHERE - I mean, I could still be here for another 2 years with her. BUT (huge but) as she said to me when we broke up "I can't move with you, not now, not in 5 years, i just couldn't do it" - and this was the confirmation I needed to know she wasn't the right one.

    By the way, I do reside in Australia (won't get into specifics), but it's not a major city - so if anyone's from australia and has some sort of idea of the job market at the moment and could shed some light, that'd be great :). (Probably make me feel worse though! haha).

    Great to hear peoples stories.
  • Saman
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    Saman polycounter lvl 13
    Primarily ... my body. I should have sat up straight for the last 20 years.
    Same here. My back got really bad in spring, mostly because of work stress(I worked both at my work and a lot at home). Then it got better but after that I got really sick. Then I got well and then sick really bad again and finally I almost got burnt out.
    I hear you on the love problem though, mixeh. I had a bad case of that last year just before a big release so fortunately I could work my ass off to stop thinking about my relationship problems... And it worked.
  • Kevin Johnstone
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    Kevin Johnstone polycounter lvl 19
    My country, my health, my old life, my family and friends.

    I've built up a new life and friends of course, and I'm working toward better health but I've spent a lot of years running away from the fuck up I used to be and have spent the last couple of years in particular getting to grips with the notion that its time to give myself a break.

    I think I read in the Sandman that the price of accomplishing your dreams is accomplishing your dreams and that dreams make no promises. What I understand now is that this means we have to find new dreams to pursue and thats what I have been doing lately. Gears of War was THE DREAM for me, it was the thing every developer wishes for, a genuine blockbuster that I got rewarded for making.

    Now I'm getting back to working out who I am and what I want...for the rest of my life.

    Recently my health has taken a major hit, I have had Crohn's disease since I was 16 but it wasn't too bad, mostly it was like I didn't really have it and only every couple of years or so it would flare up.
    Last year I had to admit it had progressed pretty far, I had a couple surgeries that didn't fix things. Now I have arthritis attached to the Crohns and Perianal disease also with a bit of tuberculosis in my system and an enflamed necrotic ileum.

    I'm a picture of bloody health basically. So I'm taking a lot of meds and moving on to serious ones like Remicade soon which it is hoped will deliver dramatic improvements to my quality of life.

    So of course, I am rethinking my life atm and working out what I want for myself and dialing out of my professional obsessions... because I can't afford them and I knew I needed to tone it down even before things got to the this point.

    I've started writing now, its what I was good at when I was at school, I took art for a dodge if I'm honest heh

    I'm also learning to sculpt and paint and do real life stuff, I never went to college, I never learned any of that stuff so its great fun just expressing myself instead of trying to work out how best to expand otheres ideas ... for money.

    Why am I sharing this?

    Well, I'm trying to be more honest about myself these days and many of you have known me since the early days.
  • HonkyPunch
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    HonkyPunch polycounter lvl 18
    I sacrificed my first born and all I got was a 10-7 shift at wal-mart.
    We'll see.
  • 3DLam
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    3DLam polycounter lvl 14
    There have been some very interesting topics around nowadays... one of them regarding the changing of the industry which is an undeniable fact. The golden years are over.. we are in some flux and a dark period unfortuately. Belts are tightening. Endless sequels being produced as safe bets. Outsourcing is in full swing and is something that cannot be ignored. I myself have been a character artist in games for over ten years now. I still like what I do, but it's definitely more of a challenge in finding my way that it was ten years ago. Like others have said, it all depends on how you define your job, how you define yourself and your happiness. I am married and have three children now. I can't honestly say that if i was going to make the decision to jump into the industry now, given my lifestyle, i would be prepared to make the same sacrifices. The cost and the return of that decision is quite different that it used to be. The competition is much greater (higher cost of entry) and the industry is changing, stability is low, long term outlook is unclear. At the end of the day, like it or not, it's a job, it's not your life. I went into video games, cause I played lots and love em. Things change.

    Best of luck to you guys and your choices.
  • Matabus
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    Matabus polycounter lvl 19
    It's odd how right Vig is. Listen to the man.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    Vig wrote: »
    I've always thought life should go:
    Step1) Get out of school.
    Step2) Get your shit together, get a job, get a place, buy toothpaste, stand on your own.
    Step3) Look for some tail to chase.
    Step4) After getting your heart stomped on 3-4 times and or the first sighting of a single gray hair, think about settling down.

    These steps. I'm at "get a place" right now. I have appointments to check some out all week. :)

    My list isn't exactly the same though, I have a 2.5; a big 2.5. To get a better job, an actual art job rather than a QA job. I am really hoping to get this one going soon.

    I can't wait to hit step 3. Having a solid romantic relationship is definitely something I've sacrificed along the way. Not totally for lack of trying, but I've been able to dedicate more resources to this lately.

    I have been lucky enough to have other great personal relationships to keep me going. Most of my current friends are also artists going through the exact same ordeals. We're all even working together at the same place after having graduated from school together. I've had lots of support for what I've chosen to do and it's definitely helped.

    I do struggle a bit with the idea of dropping everything and moving somewhere else. I wouldn't want to lose my friends, but I know if it was the right opportunity there wouldn't be any hesitation. Friends/Family would in fact push me to go.

    This thread has been a nice encouraging read so far.
  • Mark Dygert
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    [Warning, I get all soapboxy. Feel free to skip as much as you need to] I also haven't read the rest of this thread other than the quote below, so this might of been covered already... in that case feel free to skip it... heh.
    Exactly, and if the world ended tomorrow, would you rather know you spent those last years locked in a room making game art, or rather know you were having fun with friends, family and your partner.

    There can be a balance, it doesn't need to be one or the other. Sure it may be harder, it might take longer, but as Crazyfool has shown, it's completely possible.
    Sure 1 out of 10,000 people can balance it all and get it all done with zero regrets, my advice is for the other 9,999 people, that 1 wanker doesn't need to hear this.

    I don't think you shouldn't have a life outside of work, until you have a working life.
    If you're like me, when you find someone, your life better be in working order enough to coast along on its own because you're going to abandon it for a while. You're going to want to spend a lot of time with that person and let other things just slide along and fall where they may.

    What most people want to see in a partner:

    Most people are looking for someone that can stand on their own, no one wants to be the tent pole in a relationship, which is probably why the GF of the OP was leaving. How many people would stick around if you said "yea I'm not sure how I'm going to support myself and I might need to sponge off you until I get that sorted out?" That doesn't really build a picture of a strong confident future, it sends the signal to run the other way. That's asking a lot of another person who probably isn't standing on their own yet themselves...

    Without that "stand on your own" component its going to be hard to attract the kind of people who are rock solid, long haul partners.

    Why it can be good to focus:

    Just like trying to learn programing and art at the same time can lead to you being crappy at both, trying to balance too much too early without a good foundation can screw you over too. If you're not careful you can end up, broken hearted (again) because you're still spending weekends and off work hours training to get better. Or jobless because you can only land contract work and the contracts always seem to expire before you land another one.

    Why I say these things:
    I've been married for 12 years, have a 3 yr old and have a stable job in the industry. My wife and I would move in a heartbeat if it was better for either of us. We are our home and we're happy wherever we are. We have each others backs no mater what. It's not the stuff we have or how close to family we are, its not some weird unquantifiable ethereal thing that binds us together. Its the time we've spent together and the memories we've made and that we know we'll make more as long as we're together. That is what holds us together. Those memories where made because we both weren't doing 3 things at once, when we met.

    In a way, I've taken both routes and the one I'm suggesting would be easier in most cases. That doesn't mean its the right path for everyone but I would give it some consideration before jumping into anything. Get one thing down and look to tackle another, its easier to land a solid partner if you have a place to live. Its easier to find a place to live if you have a job. It's easier to land a job if you're not training and job hunting at the same time.

    True life isn't always perfect sometimes you meet the right person at the wrong time and you have to make the best of it. Life doesn't always go according to plan, but that doesn't mean a little planning won't help. You just can't inflexible in your planning. You only get one trip around so make the best of it.

    I bunkered down trained up and got a really good job in print and worked my way up the ladder quickly because I was focused on the job. That allowed me freedom to focus on things outside of work.

    I was EXTREMELY lucky to land a job that landed me another job that let me keep training in game art during the day so I could have all three things at once. It would of been harder for me to switch careers on my own and I'm very thankful to have such a kick ass wife, but I probably wouldn't of found her if I wasn't originally focused on my job like a laser beam.

    Pro Tip:
    Most people know this already, the more you get paid the less actual work you do. That's right the less work you do, the easier it is to do things outside of work that don't involve flea markets.
    CEO's do jack dick, and make bank.
    Managers do nothing but fuck off, bust your balls and make more than you.
    The front line grunt spends his entire day doing the work of all 3 for only a fraction of what the other guys make.
    Chances are if you're posting here, you won't be a CEO, so you MIGHT have a shot at the other 2 positions. I know which one would be better for me and allow me more time outside of work to live a balanced life.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Vig wrote: »

    Pro Tip:
    Most people know this already, the more you get paid the less actual work you do. That's right the less work you do, the easier it is to do things outside of work that don't involve flea markets.
    CEO's do jack dick, and make bank.
    Managers do nothing but fuck off, bust your balls and make more than you.
    The front line grunt spends his entire day doing the work of all 3 for only a fraction of what the other guys make.
    Chances are if you're posting here, you won't be a CEO, so you MIGHT have a shot at the other 2 positions. I know which one would be better for me and allow me more time outside of work to live a balanced life.

    c'mon, really? we grunts have pretty much zero responsibility besides getting our work done, someone who's willing to manage artists really deserves the pay, it's like trying to herd cats. I will concede that the higher you go the less art you do as you get buried under piles of management related stuff.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    This topic is interesting. I'm thinking about the same things a lot as well, the past few weeks.
    Right now I've got an easy job with minimal hours (i'm off half the time basically and have at least 3 months of paid holidays. Yes 3 months.) In my spare time I can at least double my pay with freelance work. But I'm not working in some fantastic company on the game of everybody's dreams...
    Then there's the girl, she's definitely a multitude more interesting than previous ones but there's also a lot less guarantee about it going anywhere more serious. She says if I want to leave I should just do it and not think of her (because she would do the same thing).
    I guess I should look at the last part of Vig's step 2. Living with my parents really isn't fun anymore. A friend asked me if I wouldn't be interested in getting a place with him in february, he's a super active and social dude so it would make things a lot more lively for me too.
    hmm doubts...
  • Mark Dygert
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    c'mon, really? we grunts have pretty much zero responsibility besides getting our work done, someone who's willing to manage artists really deserves the pay, it's like trying to herd cats. I will concede that the higher you go the less art you do as you get buried under piles of management related stuff.
    Yea that was a bit dramatic, but it got the point across.

    You're right it is hard work, I've manged a team of 24 people, and I currently manage 4 people which is the right amount of creativity and busy work for me. With the right people around you it gets easier. If you're job is to sit in front of a revolving door and train whatever flies through then yea its going to be hell. But I wouldn't swing from a tree with that many rotten branches, you're more likely to fall out before any fruit does.

    The longer people work with you and know what you expect of them, then the easier it gets. If you lay it out in a simple reasonable way, "this is what I expect you to get done by this date", generally competent people don't have a problem getting it done. The longer they work and deliver on time the less hand holding you have to do.

    It also helps greatly if you can have a hand in the interview process and you can ferret out some of the people that will require micro management. If you hire knuckle head frat boys who make good drinking buddies, but bad employees then the chances of you snuggling with a roll of tums every night trying to figure out how to get it all done is pretty high.

    Things normally go pretty smooth if its reasonable and transparent.

    Set a good, reasonable schedule.
    By that I mean, knowing how long it takes to get the work done and padding it by a little. Then take it to the managed employees to look at, get them to comment and sign off on it before its set in stone.

    Be open and transparent.
    To everyone on every level. Have the balls to talk to your boss or your bosses boss make sure everyone is aware of what they're doing, and if changes crop up that everyone is aware and can adjust, this isn't just a trickle down effect, if design dumps 13 more maps in your lap then people up high need to not have their heads up their asses and expect deadlines to hold.

    Once you get a sense for how a place should function its fairly easy to ferret out the places that don't (in interviews), unless they flat out lie to you, then you have every reason to walk out.

    OR just stick to George's rules of hard work:
    http://www.ismckenzie.com/the-george-costanza-philosophy-of-hard-work/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd9ma2UVLHM
  • Minos
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    Minos polycounter lvl 16
    @Kevin: sorry to hear that, I hope the new meds improve your situation.

    Interesting thread indeed. I was even thinking about this the other day.

    Things I have sacrificed for my career so far:
    * Most of my teenage days: Instead of socializing, getting laid and getting drunk I stayed at home working on levels and playing games.

    * A degree. Dropped out of college when I got a job at Ubisoft. Now the studio shut down and I don't have either a job or a degree.

    * Friends. I'm still friends with only one out of all the friends I had in high shcool.

    * Girls. Again, I should have gotten laid more :P

    I always try to think positively though, so here are the good things that happened due to the sacrifices above:

    * Ubisoft: I may not have a degree but I met far more talented people that I could ever meet in my hometown. I made some really good friends, learned a lot and got industry experience that's useful now that I'm looking for a better job.

    * Friends: The only one from high school that I still talk is the only one that really matters really. I don't miss any of the other ones.

    * Girls: I've been together with my GF for over 4 years now. She's amazing and always supported me. We have been living in different towns for 2 years seeing each other only every 3 months or so, but our relationship is stronger every day.

    Regrets? Only a few. I could have balanced my social life better during my adolescence. But as soon as I land a job in nice studio, where I don't need to work on my portfolio at home (like I had the past 2 years), I'll focus on other things, like painting, fishing or gardening (I always wanted to grow a Bonsai).

    I have the feeling that my life hasn't really started yet and all of this is just a preparation for the day when I land my dream job and start living my life the way it should be lived: away from the PC when not at work.
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