Where do I start learning Zbrush?
polycounter lvl 7
I've done a decent amount of work in Mudbox before now, and I found it fairly simple and easy to learn, but it seems like a lot more people use Zbrush as their standard for sculpting, and I figured it would be a good skill to pick it up.
My problem is that the program is completely and utterly baffling and counter intuitive. I constantly reach dead ends where I have ruined everything and have to restart the program, and I haven't even tried sculpting yet. I've watched like every tutorial or instruction video I can find on the program and they're all vague and make way too many assumptions about the users skill level, and most of them are for different versions and don't even share the same layout or buttons.
The videos on the pixelogic website didn't really help either, and I'm not getting anywhere on my own. Does anyone know any good resources or incredibly simple and basic tutorials for Zbrush? I tried all sorts of google queries and all I can really find is people showing off their amazing sculpts at high speed, nothing for anyone trying to pick up the tool.
My problem is that the program is completely and utterly baffling and counter intuitive. I constantly reach dead ends where I have ruined everything and have to restart the program, and I haven't even tried sculpting yet. I've watched like every tutorial or instruction video I can find on the program and they're all vague and make way too many assumptions about the users skill level, and most of them are for different versions and don't even share the same layout or buttons.
The videos on the pixelogic website didn't really help either, and I'm not getting anywhere on my own. Does anyone know any good resources or incredibly simple and basic tutorials for Zbrush? I tried all sorts of google queries and all I can really find is people showing off their amazing sculpts at high speed, nothing for anyone trying to pick up the tool.
Replies
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/ZBrush-Character-Creation-Advanced-Sculpting/dp/047024996X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1289020804&sr=8-3[/ame]
This + the videos on the Pixologic website should cover everything you need.
If yo have an specific questions feel free to ask.
They have "Introduction to" videos, as well as quick looks at new features in 4 and a bunch of specific features of zBrush.
To save anything I have to quit and it asks me if I want to save my document, but when I load that document afterwards, I can't click on edit to continue sculpting. What am I doing wrong? If I make a new 'tool' (why are all the models called tools?) and then it will let me go to edit, but for some reason I still cant rotate or sculpt or anything on the original model even though it's right there, only the new 'tool'.
My experience with Zbrush so far is that's it's really dumb, frustrating, and different for the sake of being different, and I can't find a single reason why anyone would want to use it over something made for normal people like Mudbox other then because it was here first. It's like I was made by linux programmers trying to emulate the Mac with no conventions on regular programs act, or some sect of elitists hipsters who wanted to make something as impossible to get into as possible, to insure that no 'common rabble' get in.
If it's been around for so long, why weren't all these glaring problems fixed by now?
The document is basically the viewport, it isn't 3D. It has actual pixel dimensions. If you export it, you get a .PSD photoshop file that is pretty much a fancy screenshot. You may see the model when you open the document, but it's as good as an image now. Saving the document does have some uses (maybe you have a bg color/gradient you like, a specific document resolution, exporting the document when using it to make a 2d texture, some people use zbrush more for painting, etc)
The actual 3d model is called the tool. It saves as .ZTL, and exports as .OBJ. This is what you want to save for working with models (ztl should save all subtools associated with the model, the subdivision levels, the polypaint/uvs/polygroups...).
I can't imagine how anyone ever would think that is a good idea. The default closing the program asks you to save a screenshot? That's completely useless and confusing. How am I supposed to save my document so I can work on it later then? There is no 'file' menu bar or anything remotely like normal programs, just this weird alphabetized list of things that are all confusing and not useful.
You can save the document or the tool through the menu bar. Saving the document can be found under Documents (and will prompt you if you meant to save the document or the tool). Saving the tool can be found under the tool menu,
At this point I usually close the program and restart since I have no idea how to delete things yet.
And why do they call it the tool? When I think tool, the last thing I will ever think of is my 3D model. To me a tool is a tool, like my brush tools or smooth tools. Why not call it mesh or model like almost every other 3D program out there? Just seems so derp to me.
As a 3D artist, you need to know that a Zbrush editable 3D object/mesh, is called a ZTool (ZTL). I know its dumb, but you have to kindof accept it...
That means that the Tool palette holds all your objects (as well as other legacy 2.5 tools that are hardly being used anymore by Zbrush users, except for Projection Master stuff, but thats another story).
Now the beauty of it is that, you can load multiple ZTLs in one zbrush session - they would be dormant in the tool palette, and wont slow down the program (thats very very cool).
You can place a tool (a 3D object in our case) on the canvas by click and dragging, and holdig shift to make it straight. THEN, look at your cursor. If its red, youre good to go and start sculpting. IF its grey, press T to enter edit mode. (I dont even know where this is located i nthe interface - just remember T)
The Canvas is a 2.5D space (thats what Zbrush1 was all about. 3D edits were introduced in 1.5, but the 1.0 legacy remains to this day). If you switch to a 2.5D tool (youll find those in your Tool palette aswell), then your 3D model is dropped to the 2.5D canvas, kind of like a stencil projection of it. At that point you cannot edit it anymore. BUT! A fresh version of it is still in your tool palette. So, drop it again, press T, and keep on working. Clean the canvas by going to layers > delete all (or whatever its called). The 2.5D mess will disappear, but your fresh, editable 3D object will still rotate on top of it.
If you load multiple ZTLs, you can combine them by performing Subtool > Append. You can also place them relatively to each other using the transpose tool (look up Zbrushcentral for that).
On one had id love Pixologic to release a 'regular' 3D Zbrush. But the core mechanics are so strongly bound to 2,5D that in the end, you'll realize that learning the kinks of the app isnt too bad. It takes a WHILE tho.
For raw sculpting, I still recommend Mudbox, even if 75% of digital sculptors are under Zbrush. BUT once they see Mud in action, they all feel like switching
Good luck!
Then i tried mudbox and got used the the interface in less than a day
same here. whats up with that?
If the tool wasn't saved, as far as I know it's lost. If it was saved, you'd just click the load tool button and select the ztl file.
There's a new type of saving which saves the document and the tools, among other settings. I rare use it, but you can read more at http://www.pixologic.com/docs/index.php/ZBrush_Projects
As for why it's called a tool:
"ZBrush puts 3D models into the tools palette, which may be a somewhat different way of doing things than you are accustomed to from other 3D software. Doing this allows easy access to many different models at one time. It also fits the idea of tools as drawing instruments; in ZBrush, you can use a flower model as a tool to paint a field of flowers.
ZBrush offers several types of 3D tools:
3D Primitives allow the creation of cubes, spheres, spirals, terrain, etc. These tools typically offer numerous initialization options; for example, you can control the shape of the terrain tool, you can make the sweep tool sweep out a vase or a goblet, and so forth. A 3D primitive may be converted to a general polymesh for further custom work.
Polymeshes are general 3D objects. They allow multiple levels of subdivision, sculpting at different resolutions, edge loop modeling, and many other general mesh manipulations. All imported meshes (those brought in from other modeling programs) are imported as polymeshes, and all sculpting, texturing, and mapping you do on complex, irregularly shaped objects will almost certainly be on polymeshes.
ZSpheres provide a fast, easy way sketch the general structure or shape of a complex model. For example, you can use ZSpheres to define a humanoid or quadruped shape down to arms and legs, fingers and toes, head or torso including general features such as cheeks, forehead, and chest, and so forth. Once a model has been defined with ZSpheres, it can be 'skinned' to create a polymesh, using one of two skinning methods to give either a dense polymesh model for sculpting, or a light polymesh model for export or edge-loop type modeling.
Multimarkers allow the composition of other 3D tools into a single mesh. For example, you could create bolts, rods, gears, and so forth, and then fuse them to create a complex piece of machinery as a single model."
Okay so my Tool pallet, is actually my model menu, and my brushes are not tools, they're something else. Under Layers I deleted the Document, but I haven't been able to delete the default sphere yet. I went under subtool, selected it and went Delete but apparently that is not a valid operation it tells me.
I feel like I'm trying to learn it because the industry tells me I should learn it ( everyone elses uses it) but is it really any better then Mudbox or maybe Sculptris ( never looked at that one yet) or should I stick with it? I don't want to 'give up' and go back yo Mudbox just because Zbrush is assbackwards if Zbrush will be better off for me down the road to know.
That worked when I left Edit mode, but when I went back in it re-appeared. Also when I loaded my sculpt tool it replaced the Sphere for some reason, when every other time nothing happened, and other times it would add itself to the document arbitrarily next to the sphere.
It's really hard to learn by process of elimination with this program because the exact same actions product different results completely at random for me.
And yeah Zspheres seem interesting to me I know Mudbox doesn't have anything like that yet.
Apologies for the somewhat personal question but are you using a legit version of ZBrush? I know there's a few pirated versions around that behave weird in some cases. I've heard all sorts of stories from not being able to switch the default tool, to having to import a random OBJ on opening just to be able to use the program. If you are using a pirate copy, it may be worth grabbing the trial and then you'll likely wanna buy it by the end of the 30 days anyway.
Totally hear you on most of your concerns, the whole 'tool vs document' thing confused the hell outta me at first. And after 2 years of using ZBrush I still feel nervous the whole time I'm sculpting something for fear of losing everything simply because I hit the wrong button. An average project for me usually coincides with a folder full of about 500 Ztools that I'm saving constantly in case I screw it up by dropping the tool, or deleting lower SubD levels or something silly.
I'm pretty sure I'm just doing it or something else wrong, but also no it's not a legitimate copy, I wasn't about to spend 700$ at a drop of a hat just to see if I liked the program or not.
I couldn't find any Trial on the Pixologic website either, I figured it would be under downloads or something but no dice, maybe I am just blind though.
I don't think I need 30 days to say this program is immediately rubbing me all the wrong ways already, and besides Z Spheres I haven't really seen anything it can do that I would use that Mudbox can't. Can anyone tell me why I should learn Zbrush other then just because everyone else does? Which is the main reason I am trying to pick it up, but not getting anywhere fast.
If you try to go back into edit mode when nothing is currently on the document, it's going to have to throw your currently selected tool back onto the document. Otherwise there would be nothing to edit. If you want a new tool instead of the sphere, select a new tool and draw it onto the document and enter edit mode.
Oh okay. So its normal to save your tool, then next time you run it load the tool, select it and click and drag it into existence? It just feels wrong to me making a new mesh like that when I load something, I'm used to just having a file I load and everything is the same as the last time I ran it.
There are two things worth keeping in mind when you do this:
1) It doesn't matter how you draw the tool onto the document. So if you load a face you made in Max/Maya/whatever and draw it onto the document upside down or sideways, it's not actually rotating/scaling the model.
2) Any changes you make to the tool gets kept in the memory until you close zbrush. So if you load a model and start to sculpt/paint/change it, and then leave edit mode for whatever reason, redrawing the tool back onto the document will still have those changes you made to it. Just be sure to save the tool before you close zbrush (and like any program, save it often just in case) so that you can load the tool into new sessions.
Also related, sometimes people accidentally leave edit mode and when they go to make a new brush stroke, they end up drawing the tool onto the document again. And then they freak out because now they have two heads or whatever on the screen and one isn't moving (it's now part of the document). Again just clear the document, redraw the tool, enter edit mode, and nothing is lost.
I noticed the weird shape perception by sculpting on the same object in both Z and M. (a realistic human skull). With equivalent tools in both apps, the one in Mud had more proper shapes and forms. Its an opinion and everybody is free to disagree ; yet deep down I believe there is some odd mechanism at the core of Z making shapes behave weirdly.
Still Zbrush is a good app to know, it has some power tools that no other program has. I learned it (and I know it pretty well know) by spending all my modeling time in Mud, but playing with Z once in a while to experiment with it and discover the toolset and philosophy little by little. You dont have to care about what the majority is using - just use whats best for you, and be aware of the fundamentals of the other apps.
The Remesh and Reproject fonctions are amazing. The way the Clay brush can blend separate mesh together is also something youll never find in any other app at the moment. These alone justify a Zbrush purchase in my opinion.
Also, whichever app you chose : always start from a 2D concept. Really.
Since sculpting-wise, I'm aware both ZBrush and Mudbox are (at least in my noob eyes), on par with each other.
EDIT: pior just answered my question before I even asked it... I'm going to make a tinfoil hat now. But thanks pior
EDIT: Ugh. I was at the lowest sub division level, trying to divide further, but it kept telling me "No you cant do that, you'll lose everything in the level lower" even though I was already at the lowest level, and then I accidentally deleted all my subdivision layers or something, and then tried to subdivided and the program crashed and I'm pretty sure I lost all my work for the last few hours. No part of my experience with Zbrush so far has been anything but excruciating.
Hold Ctrl to activate the masking tool, and then go to the brush or stroke menu. You can change the stroke there (lasso, rectangle, pen, circle, etc). If have a custom UI set up to bring out the masking and select options as well as commonly used brushes to speed things up.
For sculpting I'd say that zbrush walks all over mudbox due to its vast number of brushes and significantly more robust set of options (Mudbox destroys zbrush for painting though). But yea, that arguments been done. However I see no problem with working close to the mesh when your focusing on details, its only when getting the overall form that this should be avoided.
I also think that you'll almost always get superior results in your primary sculpting app just because you're more accustomed to the 'feel' of its brushes. Nocking one or the other because you didn't get identical results seems like the wrong way to look at things.
Edit: at risk of sounding too harsh/mean...I should mention that the first time I tried using zbrush I felt the same way. I was pissed at how odd it was, and left it alone...then came back to it several months later and gave it a little more time and got a little more comfortable with it.
More often that not I find myself falling asleep while I watch video tuts, maybe the tutors take the whole thing too serious and formal and it becomes boring to watch, something I never felt with Eat3d tuts, so yeah, recommended!
And lol, let's not make this into another ZB vs MB fight, it's pointless!
http://www.zbrushworkshops.com/
The industry is not really telling you what to learn. It's just that most studios are using Zbrush over Mudbox. Both apps do what they are supposed to do, sculpt but they approach it from different angles. Mudbox is really an extension of Maya where a lot of overlapping functionality can be seen.
Zbrush approaches things in an artistic point of view if you wanna say (or so I heard) but Zbrush does have a lot more set of brushes and options that Mudbox will eventually catch up.
I don't know what your current work situation is (if you are already working in a studio or preparing yourself for the work force) but you learn what you are comfortable to learn and get the job done. However if you are applying to a company that uses only Zbrush and although you know how to sculpt, you will be asked to learn Zbrush.....you will have to change your approach on how assbackwards Zbrush is otherwise bye bye job.
We are at an era in the CG field where apps are coming out from all over the place and studios are constantly looking for the fasted app to spit out art and models. So it depends on your field of work. If you are a freelancer then use the app that you know and like, but if you are planning to work in the industry then be ready to use the apps the studio wants you to use.
Do you all start your characters outside zbrush and bring in? Or create from zspheres?
I done outside to zbrush thus far. Wondering if its more efficient to create from ground 0 in zbrush.