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polys turn black from simple adjustments

I have been having this problem off and on since I began modeling years ago, but I've never been able to find out why it happens, nor what to do about it, save replacing the offending polys by deleting them and re-forming.

I was refining this model by tying up loose verts when all the sudden it flashed to black like in the image below. Smoothing groups don't do a thing to it - either cleared completely or auto-smoothed, the model stays the same.

I would really appreciate it if someone could help me understand what is happening here, how to avoid it, and how to fix it when it happens. Thanks!

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  • Sean VanGorder
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    I'm not sure why it's happening if it's not the smoothing groups, but to fix it you might want to try applying a Normal modifier and checking on "Unify Normals".

    EDIT: I've found it's usually better to listen to Vig first in most cases :)
  • Mark Dygert
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    I guess you're using 3dsmax? What does it look like when you turn on backface culling?
    Select your object, right click choose object properties, check on backface culling. If the black areas turn see-thru then you need to flip those polys.

    You can try resetting xform. Utilities Tab Reset Xform Reset selected. You can also creating a new box, attach your problem mesh to it and delete the box.

    You might want to also try exporting to a format that will complain about problems, like fbx or obj (in max 2010 and newer). The old obj exporter in 2009 and lower was trash.
  • Rainyn
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    Thanks for the replies - I appreciate it.

    I've never used the normal modifyer, but I tried it and it had no effect.

    Backface culling did not produce the phenomenon you describe. I might have noticed if the polys were turned the wrong direction as I keep shaded faces turned on most of the time (they turn red when you select them).

    Resetting xforms didn't do anything, neither did creating a box and attaching my model to it. Exporting to fbx format merely complained about some turned polys - which I had done to a couple while hunting for a solution.

    I am sorry. I've uploaded the model in a zip in fbx and obj format, exported from Max 2010 to this location. Perhaps one of you guys could crack it open and poke around...

    Sean, I'll always listen when someone offers adice :poly136:
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    export the mesh as an .obj file, UNCHECK the box that says "normals" within the "geometry" section. then re-import the object, and you can apply smoothing groups as normal.

    i've had this issue too, if i've used the 3point quality mode modifier on a mesh, but then needed to change the mesh later. i'm sure i've had it in the past with other things, but couldn't pinpoint the issue. however, it DEFINITELY happens with the 3 point modifier if you edit the mesh after applying it.
  • Mark Dygert
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    Weird... The OBJ imported and was horribly messed up like you showed, but it all magically cleaned up when I applied edit poly. I'm using 2011 and it might be a bug in 2010 that 2011 fixes automatically when it analyzes meshes.

    If that doesn't work try applying a Turn To Poly modifier and check on "keep polys convex" that seems to solve the problem too.

    Or try opening this scene, I saved it out of 2011 as 2010 friendly.
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336353/Bar01.zip
  • Rainyn
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    Thanks everyone! almighty_gir's approach worked and I am proceeding to finish the mesh.
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    I've had that happen to meshes before, and I believe collapsing to editable mesh, and then back to editable poly has fixed it.
  • Rainyn
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    Vig wrote: »
    Weird... The OBJ imported and was horribly messed up like you showed, but it all magically cleaned up when I applied edit poly. I'm using 2011 and it might be a bug in 2010 that 2011 fixes automatically when it analyzes meshes.

    Did you notice anything I did incorrectly?
  • Rainyn
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    Ghostscape wrote: »
    I've had that happen to meshes before, and I believe collapsing to editable mesh, and then back to editable poly has fixed it.
    I tried that - it had no effect. :poly142:
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