That's just a horribly cynical and egocentric view on the world dfacto. Ppl r more than what they r worth to you.
People are more that what they are worth to me, but I'm not the only "me" in the world. If you're consistently mediocre you'll be worthless to quite a few people. And really, what other benchmark would you use for the worth of a person than what they can do for others?
Call me bitter, but I've been living in eastern Europe for two years now, and I am.
I guess I can't argue with you. At the same time, I don't jump into every girl's pants just because I find them attractive. For me, I like to think that that sort of intimacy is special enough to save for your wife.
Forgive me if you weren't implying sex. I might have jumped the gun there.
I don't either, I live in the moment and enjoy a woman's company, however far we take things.
I respect your beliefs and I definitely won't call it wrong, but I do think that you might be limiting yourself with it. You've drawn a border for yourself, so naturally you're going to keep a distance from this border. Perhaps the same sort of "apologetic" thoughts that the article's author has.
Hope you don't mind my uncalled for psychoanalysis, it's just that I recognize some of the way i used to think. That having these desires is bad, that I should hide them and that they're indecent. It's freeing to have shed those thoughts.
That's just a horribly cynical and egocentric view on the world dfacto. Ppl r more than what they r worth to you.
You know, you're right that people are likely worth more than they're worth to us as an individual.
But truthfully, if I didn't set some sort of system, some sort of scale for myself in relation to others and was always thinking about the possible hidden worths of man and woman alike...
I'd be fucking batshit. And I'd never get anything done. And a lot of times, I WOULD wind up doing all that thinking only to realize...Yeah, still worthless. Perhaps not worthless just not worth the right things for me to give a shit.
It's not egocentric, it's just following the golden rule. I'd want others to do the same.
I have to ask, are there actually any other women in here that's been replying to this article? This whole thread is about women yet I don't even feel comfortable replying any further about it. Any thing I saw could be too quickly seen as offensive being in the minority. If we're going to theorize the nature of women, some other female perspective would be nice too. If none of the female PCers are saying anything, that alone says something.
I have to ask, are there actually any other women in here that's been replying to this article? This whole thread is about women yet I don't even feel comfortable replying any further about it. Any thing I saw could be too quickly seen as offensive being in the minority.
I'm a guy who's very often mistaken as a girl. Just a couple weeks ago my wife and I were walking down the street coming back from a walk at the park, when a short bald man remarked "Well how're you pretty ladies doing today?" ...creeper. And I had a guy in a van try to pick me up at 11:30 in the evening walking home from my job thinking I was a girl.
I think it's the hair.
That sort of counts, yes?
Edit: Also, a large majority of what I'm writing is echoing my wife. She usually reads these threads with me.
there will be always cat mouse play from both ends.. evolution can't stop cause someone opinion.. i like nice lookin girls.. think its normal but i also like she's inteligent and good manners.. sometime this can shout over beauty in such a way that i have better time with second case..
,,look is something which can attract but personality is something that will glue you up to someone,,
live long and prosper
Yea, that's ur way to measure how much you're worth, not how much they are.
Yeah see, that doesn't work in this type of instance. "How much" someone is worth isn't a constant irrefutable truth. Nor is there any record of it we have access to. And even if there was, it would only be as good as the system it resides in - and given that there is no universal, set-in-stone method for judging people's worth, all that really matters to us as individuals - is how much it matters to us as individuals.
You're talking about an abstract, a metaphysical variable - a worth that only an all-knowing thing could REALLY appreciate, or a non all-knowing entity forced to simply assume that people are always worth a lot more than we think. Neither of which is very objective or helpful.
Everything that we are can only be recognized by what is able to be recognized. Just as everything we are is up for interpretation. There is no universal "what we are". The same things that make me a hero in one place could make me evil incarnate in another, and both places could have great justification for thinking so. Each opinion matters, in the grand scheme of things, only as much as the other one. There's no book that labels me as one or the other or both. What I do in private only adds more to the pot for people to judge should they find out about it. It doesn't define anything, because there's no consistent definition - only interpretation, and that can be very dependant upon the situation. I can say I think that person's a waste of space because all I've ever seen from them is an asshole attitude, pickpocketing and drug use, and you can say there's surely more to them and that I'm not seeing the whole picture. Which is really just my opinion against yours, neither one being right or wrong, both of us saying to hell with it and continuing to think we're right.
Essentially...
People should just figure shit out for themselves. Who would've thought.
I don't know if I want to believe that all women are like that. Is it wrong to think that there are a great number of genuine women out there? I believe there are true women in the world. Women who have grown up from being manipulative little girls into true mature adults with the capacity to truly love someone. My mother was one of those women.
Call me a hopeless romantic. Maybe it's Utah Mormon culture. I just think that both genders are capable of actually loving eachother. I saw my parents do it for the duration of my life. And my mother, now diagnosed with dementia and having multiple sclerosis for most of my life, my father still loves her, and she still loves him.
Karmageddon: I might petition Miss Wiggle to get on here, she might have some good perspective. But I am a little disappointed that we don't have more active female PCers participating.
I don't know if I want to believe that all women are like that. Is it wrong to think that there are a great number of genuine women out there? I believe there are true women in the world. Women who have grown up from being manipulative little girls into true mature adults with the capacity to truly love someone. My mother was one of those women.
Call me a hopeless romantic. Maybe it's Utah Mormon culture. I just think that both genders are capable of actually loving eachother. I saw my parents do it for the duration of my life. And my mother, now diagnosed with dementia and having multiple sclerosis for most of my life, my father still loves her, and she still loves him.
I've never really encountered interaction that couldn't be painted as manipulation or subversion or dishonesty if i wore my cynic goggles. It doesn't contradict the idea of real sincere love or mature respect one another as much as one would think, though. Living as an individual is all about power struggles and struggles for agency -- if you benevolently love someone, you'll struggle for power and agency to use to benefit them. You'll manipulate them into calling in sick to work when they're pushing themselves too hard and have the flu, or letting you pay for their dinner, or what have you.
Saying that all women are out to manipulate men and use them is, i think, more an issue of perspective and semantics than some great depth of human evil. It's true, after a fashion, but the implications of it can be spun to mean quite a few different things.
Also oh shit, two listen dropping the classical logic bomb on everyone, pretty much beat me to it (and with a smarter post)
That irrefutable truth is within u, and each of us. Once u learn to appreciate it in urself, u'll be able to see it in others.
Or as one great man once said:
While I still don't see how something only recognized within us makes it irrefutable...I do appreciate being called great. :thumbup: So I'll give you enough bonus points to even it out. Not much more to be said anyway.
I couldn't stand the style of the article, I stopped halfway. The entire article could be compressed in a page while making the same point.
Anyway, why do we look? Because it's an animal instinct that is within all of us. We look at potential mating partner. The problem is that the ideals that we look for are indeed influenced by the media.
But then, disregarding for a moment that the industry makes everything look perfect, we do get attracted to things we find naturally attractive (duh). I like curves not because I read somewhere or got told that curves are sexy, or because I looked at the images in magazines (I don't), but because I find them aesthetically pleasing. If you want to blame someone, blame the subconscious. We'll never stop looking because that's what the body wants.
As for the industry, I agree that there should be more awareness as to how fake all those images really are. and that goes to both men who look at the "photos" and the women who consider it to be the ideal.
Either way, it's not like it's only the guys who stare, or it's only the women who feel insecure. Yeah sure it's much more widespread, but come one it's as if girls don't stare at hot guys or consider the ideal superman.
As for me, I don't think the "ideal" woman is really that appealing. Yeah sure I find "hot" near-ideal women attractive, but only in animal sort of way. I don't "like" them in any way, and at some point, just like the article's author, I feel like when you have a sequence of perfection that all seem to converge at some beauty ideal, they all tend to wash out and look the same.
meh, i like trashy goodtime girls with a few faults and attitude more than copy/paste self-centered gold-digging egoqueen supermodels with vapid 2-dimensional cardboard personalities.
Any particular reason why? I think its pretty positive that people are conscious of gender issues, why brush it under the carpet.. that wont help at all.
There are a number of people coming into the thread with a closed mind and cynical outlook on the value of human worth. It sort of squelches the thoughtful comments people have. That could be the reason why.
If there's anything left to be said, say it guys. But I think I'm done feeling hopeless about all of this, and I'm moving on with a positive outlook on men and women as compatible parts of a whole, capable of meaningful relationships.
There are a number of people coming into the thread with a closed mind and cynical outlook on the value of human worth. It sort of squelches the thoughtful comments people have. That could be the reason why.
If there's anything left to be said, say it guys. But I think I'm done feeling hopeless about all of this, and I'm moving on with a positive outlook on men and women as compatible parts of a whole, capable of meaningful relationships.
I have to ask, are there actually any other women in here that's been replying to this article? This whole thread is about women yet I don't even feel comfortable replying any further about it. Any thing I saw could be too quickly seen as offensive being in the minority. If we're going to theorize the nature of women, some other female perspective would be nice too. If none of the female PCers are saying anything, that alone says something.
Yeah sorry, I've been reading this thread since it was posted :P I was just sitting back taking in the guys' reaction to the article and thoughts coming from it.
All I really want to add on the topic is my personal experience with some of my guy friends. That is... the article doesn't relate to them. Sure, there's some guys, like the guy that wrote the article, that seems heavily affected by the media 'ideal' of a woman.
But of the guys I know... sure, they like looking at attractive girls, but they're still well in touch with beauty in a realistic, imperfect sense. So... really, after thinking about the article a bit, I realize it's no big deal to me. It was a little touching the first read through, but after digesting it, I mostly just don't care for the guy that wrote it. Doesn't seem like the kinda guy I'd relate to in any way. It's fine to enjoy the perfected aesthetics of a photoshopped image in passing, but if an airbrushed model is gonna trump me in a relationship, then I'd just dump the sorry guy's ass and find someone better.
Also, to the Wiki article DEElekgolo posted: What SupRore said. Yeah, if you looked at everything in a certain way, that's how it would seem. But that's all just one perspective, and imo, not a very healthy one. Some of the points were interesting, but others, especially some at the end, were sounding pretty bull to me.
I'm moving on with a positive outlook on men and women as compatible parts of a whole,
I am a part time instructor in 3dcg to help pay the rent between freelance work. My department director is a woman. My girlfriend is a lawyer and makes more money than I will ever see.
I know quite a few successful women who are constantly whining about their bums or boobs or age because women are just vocal about that. It is how they get it out of their system. You have to know that most women are hard enough that even with all those raging doubts they have no difficulty performing professionally. I really don't give a damn. I may never be rich but 3d, and especially game characters is just the biggest blast. I also enjoy trying to make pretty women characters because it is a challenge. It is easier for me to model men, but not as much fun. In fact it is so much fun I gave up long ago asking myself the question if I am contributing to the misinformation about what is acceptable or not.
I really have to wonder if the person who wrote that article actually has a life.
people just gotta start growing some tougher skin and stop blaming any/everyone for anything. If a women talks down about herself it's because she wants to.
Confidence is the key to anything, as long if you are not being used as a human toilet and still have some fight in you just tell yourself you are not going to be what anyone else but you want you to be.
now i'll go back to being socially awkward and hide in my corner
I have to ask, are there actually any other women in here that's been replying to this article? This whole thread is about women yet I don't even feel comfortable replying any further about it. Any thing I saw could be too quickly seen as offensive being in the minority. If we're going to theorize the nature of women, some other female perspective would be nice too. If none of the female PCers are saying anything, that alone says something.
I didn't even bother to read the article, but I know that a forum full of men isn't going to be able to offer much meaningful content on anything regarding women, but it's always entertaining to watch them try.
I ask you seriously, men. Do we not realize what we have done to the women of this world? Do we not recognize the atrocities we have committed?
We have destroyed the very beauty that women are.
Confidence is beauty.
I agree that the media does a number on a woman's confidence if they let it get to them. But there are a lot of women defining beauty. A lot of women writing and running beauty blogs and magazines. Now you can argue that these women have been brainwashed by men or are being told by their male higher ups what to write and to some extent in some cases that can be true. But at what point do they themselves take responsibility for being an bad example for other women?
I don't know any guys that would say any of the things he listed and he's right you do hear those things more from women and the media aimed at them, then from other people and especially from guys. Any guy who values their partner isn't going to think those things much less utter them.
I think the focus should be that both men and women need to treat each other better and focus less on themselves. Putting the entire health of a relationship or the entire worth of one side, put in the others hands. It's chauvinistic and strips women of their confidence, dignity and self worth. Ladies if you let someone else drive your self esteem can you really complain when they put it in the ditch?
Yes there are things that men and can do to make things better, but the onus isn't all on guys, women need to step up, be good role models and not just put up with douche bag guys.
Haha check that intro. Isnt it enough to convince anyone to NOT read that article ?
How do I put into words a concept that after weeks of pondering, and multiple attempts at writing, I can still only try to wrap my brain around? A concept that I feel, but struggle to put into proper and coherent thought. A concept in which I believe, yet it's difficult to surmise the fact that I actually believe it.
I honestly don't know. But I am going to try. For my own benefit, if for no other reason. This is at least my eighth attempt at putting this together, and I'm still unsure if I have properly articulated what I feel needs to be said today.
Strong words do need to be said, though. Please hear me through to the end. I cannot promise you will agree, but I can promise that you will be compelled to ponder some important things. Things that some of you may think impossible, Utopian, or unnatural. Things that may make some angry. But please. Read through to the end. I believe most of you will agree with what I have to say. Most of you will see the vision of this message. And that vision will spark conversation. That conversation will spark desire. And that desire will spark the beginning of change.
Dude needs to learn to get to the point. He could have scored a date with a hot chick by the time he finished re-writing that intro 10 times.
Men fucked up women, women fucked up men. The media fucks up everything. Get over it, this is how life is, grow some thick skin as this shit isnt as bad as everyone seems to cry about.
In reality everyone's fucked up somewhat, sure some more then others but hey thats life, enjoy whats awesome about it instead of pointing fingers and dwelling on who made the bad shit worse.
Men fucked up women, women fucked up men. The media fucks up everything. Get over it, this is how life is, grow some thick skin as this shit isnt as bad as everyone seems to cry about.
In reality everyone's fucked up somewhat, sure some more then others but hey thats life, enjoy whats awesome about it instead of pointing fingers and dwelling on who made the bad shit worse.
but everyone loves shoveling blame over on their neighbours lawn. just look at the video game violence debacle.
for example: why do women like fit/strong/muscly men, or men in a position of leadership even if its low level leadership ? my friend says its because they are still looking for someone who has the muscles to work hard to fend for the young and leadership shows that they are more of an alpha male and therefore more desirable.
At one point in history, it was attractive to be pale and fat (meaning rich and well off). Being tan meant you worked out side in the fields. People are attracted to the stigmas attached to the look more than the look itself. Being fat is now viewed as lazy and slob-ish, anyone that was well off would have enough time to take care of themselves and hit the gym.
Also, I didn't read the whole article, didn't really relate to it.
Didn't read the whole article (or this thread), but I do agree with the author that women are actively being made to feel bad about themselves. I just think he is blaming the wrong people for this. I think the problem lies with the unachievable beauty standard created by the media hand in hand with companies selling beauty products. As always, it all boils down to one thing: MONEY.
Make-up companies make women feel ugly by bombarding them with (fake) images of perfect women, in the hope they will buy more make-up. Guys also grow up with this same beauty standard and as a result start expecting this from women, forcing them to wear make-up. In my experience, there are not a lot of girls nowadays that go outside without any form of make-up. I don't think a lot of guys realize how much of a difference make-up can make, so here's a good example:
vs.
I don't think guys look at girls because it's our nature or instinct, but because we are brought up to do so. I think a lot of people here underestimate the power and influence of social influences on our behavior. From birth we are pushed into our role of male or female and start behaving accordingly, without questioning it. Why is a girls that sleeps with a lot of guys a slut, and a guy who sleeps with a lot of girls a hero?
there are not a lot of girls nowadays that go outside without any form of make-up. I don't think a lot of guys realize how much of a difference make-up can make, so here's a good example:
G[/IMG]
Actually. I like woman all natural. And I think the first picture is prettier, *cause its real*. :P
Didn't read the whole article (or this thread), but I do agree with the author that women are actively being made to feel bad about themselves. I just think he is blaming the wrong people for this. I think the problem lies with the unachievable beauty standard created by the media hand in hand with companies selling beauty products. As always, it all boils down to one thing: MONEY.
Make-up companies make women feel ugly by bombarding them with (fake) images of perfect women, in the hope they will buy more make-up. Guys also grow up with this same beauty standard and as a result start expecting this from women, forcing them to wear make-up. In my experience, there are not a lot of girls nowadays that go outside without any form of make-up. I don't think a lot of guys realize how much of a difference make-up can make, so here's a good example:
vs.
I don't think guys look at girls because it's our nature or instinct, but because we are brought up to do so. I think a lot of people here underestimate the power and influence of social influences on our behavior. From birth we are pushed into our role of male or female and start behaving accordingly, without questioning it. Why is a girls that sleeps with a lot of guys a slut, and a guy who sleeps with a lot of girls a hero?
Or it teaches us that photos are best taken by professionals.
Or it teaches us that photos are best taken by professionals.
Then retouched by other professionals... The funny thing is, those are before and after shots from a popular retouch tutorial, true story.
Why are we digging up old dead threads with nothing more to add than "LAWLz"? If you're going to necro at least throw something in there that contributes.
Replies
People are more that what they are worth to me, but I'm not the only "me" in the world. If you're consistently mediocre you'll be worthless to quite a few people. And really, what other benchmark would you use for the worth of a person than what they can do for others?
Call me bitter, but I've been living in eastern Europe for two years now, and I am.
I don't either, I live in the moment and enjoy a woman's company, however far we take things.
I respect your beliefs and I definitely won't call it wrong, but I do think that you might be limiting yourself with it. You've drawn a border for yourself, so naturally you're going to keep a distance from this border. Perhaps the same sort of "apologetic" thoughts that the article's author has.
Hope you don't mind my uncalled for psychoanalysis, it's just that I recognize some of the way i used to think. That having these desires is bad, that I should hide them and that they're indecent. It's freeing to have shed those thoughts.
You know, you're right that people are likely worth more than they're worth to us as an individual.
But truthfully, if I didn't set some sort of system, some sort of scale for myself in relation to others and was always thinking about the possible hidden worths of man and woman alike...
I'd be fucking batshit. And I'd never get anything done. And a lot of times, I WOULD wind up doing all that thinking only to realize...Yeah, still worthless. Perhaps not worthless just not worth the right things for me to give a shit.
It's not egocentric, it's just following the golden rule. I'd want others to do the same.
I'm a guy who's very often mistaken as a girl. Just a couple weeks ago my wife and I were walking down the street coming back from a walk at the park, when a short bald man remarked "Well how're you pretty ladies doing today?" ...creeper. And I had a guy in a van try to pick me up at 11:30 in the evening walking home from my job thinking I was a girl.
I think it's the hair.
That sort of counts, yes?
Edit: Also, a large majority of what I'm writing is echoing my wife. She usually reads these threads with me.
Yea, that's ur way to measure how much you're worth, not how much they are.
,,look is something which can attract but personality is something that will glue you up to someone,,
live long and prosper
Yeah see, that doesn't work in this type of instance. "How much" someone is worth isn't a constant irrefutable truth. Nor is there any record of it we have access to. And even if there was, it would only be as good as the system it resides in - and given that there is no universal, set-in-stone method for judging people's worth, all that really matters to us as individuals - is how much it matters to us as individuals.
You're talking about an abstract, a metaphysical variable - a worth that only an all-knowing thing could REALLY appreciate, or a non all-knowing entity forced to simply assume that people are always worth a lot more than we think. Neither of which is very objective or helpful.
Everything that we are can only be recognized by what is able to be recognized. Just as everything we are is up for interpretation. There is no universal "what we are". The same things that make me a hero in one place could make me evil incarnate in another, and both places could have great justification for thinking so. Each opinion matters, in the grand scheme of things, only as much as the other one. There's no book that labels me as one or the other or both. What I do in private only adds more to the pot for people to judge should they find out about it. It doesn't define anything, because there's no consistent definition - only interpretation, and that can be very dependant upon the situation. I can say I think that person's a waste of space because all I've ever seen from them is an asshole attitude, pickpocketing and drug use, and you can say there's surely more to them and that I'm not seeing the whole picture. Which is really just my opinion against yours, neither one being right or wrong, both of us saying to hell with it and continuing to think we're right.
Essentially...
People should just figure shit out for themselves. Who would've thought.
I don't know if I want to believe that all women are like that. Is it wrong to think that there are a great number of genuine women out there? I believe there are true women in the world. Women who have grown up from being manipulative little girls into true mature adults with the capacity to truly love someone. My mother was one of those women.
Call me a hopeless romantic. Maybe it's Utah Mormon culture. I just think that both genders are capable of actually loving eachother. I saw my parents do it for the duration of my life. And my mother, now diagnosed with dementia and having multiple sclerosis for most of my life, my father still loves her, and she still loves him.
Karmageddon: I might petition Miss Wiggle to get on here, she might have some good perspective. But I am a little disappointed that we don't have more active female PCers participating.
I've never really encountered interaction that couldn't be painted as manipulation or subversion or dishonesty if i wore my cynic goggles. It doesn't contradict the idea of real sincere love or mature respect one another as much as one would think, though. Living as an individual is all about power struggles and struggles for agency -- if you benevolently love someone, you'll struggle for power and agency to use to benefit them. You'll manipulate them into calling in sick to work when they're pushing themselves too hard and have the flu, or letting you pay for their dinner, or what have you.
Saying that all women are out to manipulate men and use them is, i think, more an issue of perspective and semantics than some great depth of human evil. It's true, after a fashion, but the implications of it can be spun to mean quite a few different things.
Also oh shit, two listen dropping the classical logic bomb on everyone, pretty much beat me to it (and with a smarter post)
That irrefutable truth is within u, and each of us. Once u learn to appreciate it in urself, u'll be able to see it in others.
Or as one great man once said:
While I still don't see how something only recognized within us makes it irrefutable...I do appreciate being called great. :thumbup: So I'll give you enough bonus points to even it out. Not much more to be said anyway.
Anyway, why do we look? Because it's an animal instinct that is within all of us. We look at potential mating partner. The problem is that the ideals that we look for are indeed influenced by the media.
But then, disregarding for a moment that the industry makes everything look perfect, we do get attracted to things we find naturally attractive (duh). I like curves not because I read somewhere or got told that curves are sexy, or because I looked at the images in magazines (I don't), but because I find them aesthetically pleasing. If you want to blame someone, blame the subconscious. We'll never stop looking because that's what the body wants.
As for the industry, I agree that there should be more awareness as to how fake all those images really are. and that goes to both men who look at the "photos" and the women who consider it to be the ideal.
Either way, it's not like it's only the guys who stare, or it's only the women who feel insecure. Yeah sure it's much more widespread, but come one it's as if girls don't stare at hot guys or consider the ideal superman.
As for me, I don't think the "ideal" woman is really that appealing. Yeah sure I find "hot" near-ideal women attractive, but only in animal sort of way. I don't "like" them in any way, and at some point, just like the article's author, I feel like when you have a sequence of perfection that all seem to converge at some beauty ideal, they all tend to wash out and look the same.
If there's anything left to be said, say it guys. But I think I'm done feeling hopeless about all of this, and I'm moving on with a positive outlook on men and women as compatible parts of a whole, capable of meaningful relationships.
People are awesome!
[ame]
Yeah sorry, I've been reading this thread since it was posted :P I was just sitting back taking in the guys' reaction to the article and thoughts coming from it.
All I really want to add on the topic is my personal experience with some of my guy friends. That is... the article doesn't relate to them. Sure, there's some guys, like the guy that wrote the article, that seems heavily affected by the media 'ideal' of a woman.
But of the guys I know... sure, they like looking at attractive girls, but they're still well in touch with beauty in a realistic, imperfect sense. So... really, after thinking about the article a bit, I realize it's no big deal to me. It was a little touching the first read through, but after digesting it, I mostly just don't care for the guy that wrote it. Doesn't seem like the kinda guy I'd relate to in any way. It's fine to enjoy the perfected aesthetics of a photoshopped image in passing, but if an airbrushed model is gonna trump me in a relationship, then I'd just dump the sorry guy's ass and find someone better.
Also, to the Wiki article DEElekgolo posted: What SupRore said. Yeah, if you looked at everything in a certain way, that's how it would seem. But that's all just one perspective, and imo, not a very healthy one. Some of the points were interesting, but others, especially some at the end, were sounding pretty bull to me.
I know quite a few successful women who are constantly whining about their bums or boobs or age because women are just vocal about that. It is how they get it out of their system. You have to know that most women are hard enough that even with all those raging doubts they have no difficulty performing professionally. I really don't give a damn. I may never be rich but 3d, and especially game characters is just the biggest blast. I also enjoy trying to make pretty women characters because it is a challenge. It is easier for me to model men, but not as much fun. In fact it is so much fun I gave up long ago asking myself the question if I am contributing to the misinformation about what is acceptable or not.
I really have to wonder if the person who wrote that article actually has a life.
people just gotta start growing some tougher skin and stop blaming any/everyone for anything. If a women talks down about herself it's because she wants to.
Confidence is the key to anything, as long if you are not being used as a human toilet and still have some fight in you just tell yourself you are not going to be what anyone else but you want you to be.
now i'll go back to being socially awkward and hide in my corner
I didn't even bother to read the article, but I know that a forum full of men isn't going to be able to offer much meaningful content on anything regarding women, but it's always entertaining to watch them try.
I agree that the media does a number on a woman's confidence if they let it get to them. But there are a lot of women defining beauty. A lot of women writing and running beauty blogs and magazines. Now you can argue that these women have been brainwashed by men or are being told by their male higher ups what to write and to some extent in some cases that can be true. But at what point do they themselves take responsibility for being an bad example for other women?
I don't know any guys that would say any of the things he listed and he's right you do hear those things more from women and the media aimed at them, then from other people and especially from guys. Any guy who values their partner isn't going to think those things much less utter them.
I think the focus should be that both men and women need to treat each other better and focus less on themselves. Putting the entire health of a relationship or the entire worth of one side, put in the others hands. It's chauvinistic and strips women of their confidence, dignity and self worth. Ladies if you let someone else drive your self esteem can you really complain when they put it in the ditch?
Yes there are things that men and can do to make things better, but the onus isn't all on guys, women need to step up, be good role models and not just put up with douche bag guys.
I dont really know that, I was told it by someone in the know.
Dude needs to learn to get to the point. He could have scored a date with a hot chick by the time he finished re-writing that intro 10 times.
In reality everyone's fucked up somewhat, sure some more then others but hey thats life, enjoy whats awesome about it instead of pointing fingers and dwelling on who made the bad shit worse.
You are just all kinds of right
but everyone loves shoveling blame over on their neighbours lawn. just look at the video game violence debacle.
LMFAO!
At one point in history, it was attractive to be pale and fat (meaning rich and well off). Being tan meant you worked out side in the fields. People are attracted to the stigmas attached to the look more than the look itself. Being fat is now viewed as lazy and slob-ish, anyone that was well off would have enough time to take care of themselves and hit the gym.
Also, I didn't read the whole article, didn't really relate to it.
Make-up companies make women feel ugly by bombarding them with (fake) images of perfect women, in the hope they will buy more make-up. Guys also grow up with this same beauty standard and as a result start expecting this from women, forcing them to wear make-up. In my experience, there are not a lot of girls nowadays that go outside without any form of make-up. I don't think a lot of guys realize how much of a difference make-up can make, so here's a good example:
vs.
I don't think guys look at girls because it's our nature or instinct, but because we are brought up to do so. I think a lot of people here underestimate the power and influence of social influences on our behavior. From birth we are pushed into our role of male or female and start behaving accordingly, without questioning it. Why is a girls that sleeps with a lot of guys a slut, and a guy who sleeps with a lot of girls a hero?
Actually. I like woman all natural. And I think the first picture is prettier, *cause its real*. :P
Or it teaches us that photos are best taken by professionals.
Why are we digging up old dead threads with nothing more to add than "LAWLz"? If you're going to necro at least throw something in there that contributes.