Best Consumer Digital Camera for Artists?
polycounter lvl 18
I bought a Canon Powershot many moons ago. It's since past it's prime, and I'm looking for something new. I've done the google, and reviews say the (new) powershot is still the hot thing. I've also discussed this with a professional photographer (you know a real one, not someone that takes pictures and calls themselves one). His camera was amazing, but also several thousand dollars. Which is why I'm going for something in the consumer market.
My research aside, I'm asking yous guys since you're more likely to use a camera for the same needs; texture sampling, environment references, pretty sunsets, etc.
My research aside, I'm asking yous guys since you're more likely to use a camera for the same needs; texture sampling, environment references, pretty sunsets, etc.
Replies
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68403
I'm still using a Nikon D60, but want to get a D300 for more indoor sports.
Pentax K-x. ( comes with an awesome white storm trooper color, and like 100 other colors )
Right, the differences between a good camera phone, a shity P&S, and a good P&S camera are so small. The real driving force in these cameras is craming more and more megapixels into tiny sensors, producing worse and worse image quality past about 6 MP or so.
Now, the difference between one of these cheap(or even a $400 one)P&S cameras and a proper dSLR is going to be massive. Lets look at the main selling points:
1. Image quality, a MUCH larger sensor means you get much better image quality and noise performance. The smaller the pixels in your sensor are, the worse the IQ will be and the more your crap camera will have to blur the result to be usable, of course resulting in massive detail loss.
2. Low-light/noise performance. This is part of the first point, but seriously it is such a huge issue it needs its own point. ISO 1600 on my 6 year old Canon EOS 350D gives about the same quality as ISO 200 or 400 on my 2-3 year old 10MP Canon compact P&S(SD1100, a decent camera). What that really means is that realistically, my dSLR can be used in 1/4th the amount of light without a flash, at the same F stop. When you consider that the largest aperture available on my compact camera is 2.8, my basic $100 50mm 1.8 lens coupled with m dSLR can perform in 8 times less light. This is such a huge issue, there really are SO many situations that my compact camera simply is not suitable for taking photos, pretty much anytime i'm not out on a sunny day, or without a tripod, its worthless(as a built in flash on *any* camera just sucks).
Newer cameras will provide usable ISO performance at 3200 and in some cases 6400. Couple that sort of performance with a 50mm 1.4 lens(can usually be bough for about $250-300) and the possibilities are endless, basically night vision at this point.
3. Interchangeable lenses, while this can become a very expensive hobby, your lenses will generally last much longer than your camera body. Need to upgrade? Get a new body, keep all your lenses and be a very happy guy. No need to be stuck with the same slow, blurry, terrible lens until you buy an entirely new camera. Again a 50mm 1.8 from any major camera manufacturer(Nikon, Canon, Pentax) is just going to absolutely blow a P&S camera out of the water in every category except convince(as zoom lenses and P&S cameras are convenient, I will give them that).
4. Full manual control, ability to shoot in raw with about 12 bits per channel precision, very useful if your shot happens to be over/underexposed. Even a cheap/old dSLR is going to be.... Like an iphone compared to your development computer, to a P&S.
5. Depth of field, Ability to use selective focus to isolate a subject. Pretty much anything artistic you will want to do will involve a very good grasp of DOF, and a compact P&S really only has infinite depth of field. Again, get a 50mm and you'll see how fun and easy it is, and the world of difference it can make when taking a picture of someone with a busy background. Is the background going to be a silky smooth blur, or is that taxi 200 feet behind your subject going to be just as sharp as your subject?
One small note here, infinite DOF may be useful for texture reference, but at the same time, your blurry-noisy P&S is going to kill your detail so horribly, that it isnt worth it.
At the end of the day, you can buy a SLR-Like, or really nice P&S camera that will offer *some* of this, but you'll end up spending just as much as you can spend to get a decent dSLR system.
I like Canon EOS dSLRs, the XXXD line = entry level, XXD = semi-pro, and XD = pro. At the end of the day, any dSLR is going to just be a much better buy than a P&S, and the used market is quite good for dSLRs too, getting something in the 6-10MP range can cost about $200-350, plus a $100 50mm lens to get you started.
But it really all comes down to what you want, and what you want to do with it. If you just want something casual, that isn't complicated and is lightweight and easily fits into a pocket, get a P&S. It really doesn't matter which, search some reviews, P&S cameras have such little technical differences that the bigger concerns will be how easy it is to use, how compact it is, battery life, how cute it is, how easy it is to copy pictures to your computer, etc etc. All of these things that have nothing to do with taking photos, is generally what will separate a P&S camera from another.
Small size, but with changable lenses give you almost dslr quality.
try google the panasonic one, I cant remember its name, and Olympus has EP 1, 2 and EP-L 1.
Not too expensive I guess.
Really happy with it.
And yes it does kick the crap out of my iphone 4's camera.
A quick search of the camera in flickr should give you a good example of what the camera can do.
http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&ss=2&w=all&q=s90&m=text
Now of course a good dslr will always beat it, so in that case listen to eq.
Micro 4 thirds are also looking to be a good portable option with great quality photos.
For instance, you can't use old Canon FD lenses, on a Canon eos system, but you can on a 4/3rds system! So you can get otherwise "useless" lenses, that are of very high quality, for cheap because noone else wants them anymore.
Edit: The s90 looks like a very capable P&S, but i shutter to think of spending $350 on a compact camera, when you can get a used dSLR for the same, that will last you a lot longer, and have better resale value when you do decide to upgrade.
Here is a really good example of the DOF thing on a P&S camera. Even on a nice one like the s90 with full auto controls, and a F2.0 lens, you're still going to get this pretty much every time. Distant BG in focus as much/nearly as much as subject
http://www.flickr.com/photos/evad310/4561949358/
As apposed to this:
Clear isolation, nice blurry BG, etc.
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Also it comes with the lens you see in the video... it's a steal for under $600. If you want to see more stuff look up the K-X group on Vimeo, amazing stuff.
Xeno: Is there something specific the KX excels at? Something it offers over the similarly priced Nikon and Canon bodies(which are generally considered better)?
Looks like it comes with a 18-55mm kit lens(like canon and nikon and everyone else) that is pretty much the worse lens you could use on your dSLR.
sorry for stealing the thread !!! but I am looking for a decent camera not a ultra pro one, but a decent camera that I wont need to change in the coming 3 - 4 years at least...., mainly for taking photos as references for future matte paint backgrounds or textures. I am not in a rush but will try to get one by December...my budget is roughly around 800-1000 (including body and lenses) So if you can recomend me one I ll surely take your opinion in consideration, or if there is someone else you are welcome to give me a little help on this! thanks!
Now, if you're looking for something that does video, you're going to want to look at the:
500D (T1I) It does 720p video, and should cost about $700 new with a Kit lens. Or about $500 used without a lens on ebay.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos500d/
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The 550D does 1080P video, but that is probably a bit excessive for most people, and the price is going to blow most of your budget without leaving much room for lenses. Its about $850 or so new.
Now, if you don't care for video, i would suggest a XXD body, a used 30D(while pretty old) is going to be a very good value, used SLR cameras last much longer than consumer cameras, and a 30D is going be rated at 100,000 shutter actuations. New a 30D body may run in the 8-900 range, but used you can probably find one for $450 on ebay, a 40D similarly will run about $600
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/
Now, my take on lenses. This is what i use 98% of the time:
Canon EF 50mm 1.8 $100 new
Canon EF 28mm 2.8 $150-200 Used
These two lenses are an excellent choice, you may want to consider a cheap 3rd party zoom lens with a lot of range for when you don't want to swap out lenses. Or something like a canon EF 35-135mm, I sold a couple of these on ebay recently for $160, but you can find them a little cheaper than that. Very good general purpose lens.
Kit lens that comes with your camera; honestly I would never even put this on your camera, I would sell it instantly on ebay(put it up "buy it now" for $100 or so) and use that money to buy the 50mm instead. You can buy a new body without a lens, but generally its not a good value, you're better off keeping or selling the kit lens. I still have my 18-55mm lens and use it almost exclusively as a 18mm 3.5 wide angle, for the odd time my 28mm isn't quite wide enough and i can't back up enough to get a shot(mostly interior shots around the house, stopped down, on a tripod).
Now again, Nikon and Pentax make good stuff too, you'll just have to do some research on the pros/cons and find the equivalents. One nice thing about Nikon and Pentax is that a lot of old Manual Focus lenses are still compatible with these systems (All Nikon AI lenses on nikon, and all Pentax K lenses on pentax). So if thats your thing, you should consider that. You can also adapt screw mount m42 lenses to virtually any camera system, and there is a wide variety of cheap Olympus OM lenses that are very nice to adapt to Canon EF systems.
About used cameras and ebay: Again, these SLR cameras are meant to last a very long time, and many times you'll buy one from some guy who bought it and never really used it, so you can get used equipment for an excellent value. Some people may not like the idea of ebay, but here is the thing: On ebay, the buyer is always right. Ebay has a buyer protection system, if you get something that is not as advertised(EVEN IF IT IS LISTED AS "NO RETURNS", unless it is listed as "For parts/repairs") you can return it! You just have to file a claim with ebay and state the the item is damaged or not as listed, 99% of the time ebay will side with you and even pay for return shipping, no matter what the seller tries to tell you. Ebay wants buyers and isn't in the market to screw them over, I know this as a seller. Often times sellers will accept returns even on items that are stated "no returns" if it turns out the item is faulty/damaged. Also, auctionsniper is your friend, decide what you want to pay for equipment, snipe it and wait until you win an item! Patience here is key
Edit: Now my personal recommendation:
Canon 30D body $450 (used on ebay)
Canon EF 50mm 1.8 $100 (buy this new from B&H, used it sells for the same price)
Canon EF 28mm 2.8 $175 (used on ebay)
Total = $725
Under budget, with some really great lenses. Wait a bit and use these lenses, then decide if you want a wider lens, a longer lens, or the convenience of a zoom lens, and then buy it later.
Edit Edit: Final thought on XXD vrs XXXD, the 500D for example has live view, meaning you can use the camera much like a regular digicam and shoot off the LCD screen. The 30D does NOT, however the 40D does also have live view.
I dont mind "living in the viewfinder" but i'm sure it would be nice to have live view. You will also of course have a standard viewfinder(which is very important for shooting on a bright sunny day) with the cameras that have live view. Just another thing to consider.
Surely having video will be a nice feature, 1080 thats even cooler, but for my current purposes I will be more than happy with a camera that can capture good enough real life photo references for any future project in relation to what I mentioned previously. Your suggestion about the Canon 30D seems pretty reasonable and it does look really tempting to me. Also thanks a lot for your insight about default camera lenses.
I ignored all of this! before you mention it. I will keep this info for when I start looking to buy it in a couple months from now, thank you again for your time and valuable info on this!
Also, as a side note, more expensive camera and lenses doesn't equal better photos. Check out this gallery of photographs taken with a small, toy camera you can get on eBay for $20: http://microsites.lomography.com/holga/galleries/natural-and-filtered
Once again, depends on the kind of photography you want to practice.
There is also the Sony's A55, they just came out and have a translucent mirror = amazingly fast photos with auto focus on each one, it's a bit more expensive than the Kx as it just came out, but the mirror is totally unique.
The a33 is the more affordable version of the A55.
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All the info on both of those can be found here:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082421sonyslta55a33.asp
Also the A55 is $740 and the A33 is $100 cheaper.
That is good to know, I would like to see some more examples of the bokeh if you've got them. From everything I understand about compact P&S cameras and the distance from lens to sensor, I thought dSLR style bokeh simple wasn't possible on a P&S.
(thanks for below link didn't want to post again)
...leaning towards s95