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n88tr's basic textured things

I have been working on getting my uvs right [that's most of the battle for me] and then actually making my textures look decent. I've struggled and continue to struggle with it but am making progress I think. As long as it's not a mistake it's progress, right? lol

I cannot post imgs right this second but I will soon. Am working on some vegetation items, flowers, vines etc.

I will want crits on texturing, uv stuff etc so be ready haha.

I just wanted to have this thread ready for when I start posting stuff.

Replies

  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 10
    Cool looking forward to seeing some stuff then :)
  • n88tr
    Ok good thanks for the support.
    By the way I've been working on texturing simple objects. Like yesterday I modeled a simple sunflower plant, uv'ed it an textured the stem and the bud. I will finish the petals today but I like how it's coming along so far. I am doing various props and vegetation for a mod. I posted this info to them to keep them updated and I got this response,

    "If you model a flower, you shouldn't put it in game, I would instead suggest you render off pictures of it at two or three angles, paste the resultant images onto flat planes, and then put that in game, it's a very efficient method of doing massed foliage, and the more angles you get the better it looks. It's also ideal for use with the detail prop system which can place masses of them on displacement surfaces."

    How would I accomplish such a task? I can imagine the rendering and getting images and then creating planes with a material which is that rendered image but what about all the rest of the image, how would I make it transparent so only the flower is the visible part of the material? Or is that the wrong way to go about it?
  • n88tr
    Started a little project today to work on my texturing skillz

    ConRock_0.png
    ConRock_1.png
    ConRock_2.png
    ConRock_3.png

    ==

    A little texturing I just started. I want to lay out the basic colors first and then go in for detail work.

    ConRock_4.png
  • n88tr
    As I texture more of it they're just filled in colors not looking all that great. I added some brush details to the barrel but it just looks flat again. Should I add in some base noise and then add color or what?

    Gonna review some of my PS texturing links in the mean time.
  • cholden
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    cholden polycounter lvl 13
    It looks like you're not reusing any of your UV space. Is there any reason to go this route? Preferably, I'd recycle a pixel or two.
  • Bumper
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    Bumper polycounter lvl 9
    I think you could probably cut down some polys on your barrel shrouds (the orange elements.) Keep your bevels but the subdivisions along the width probably aren't necessary. You've got some edge weirdness at the end caps as well.
  • n88tr
    what do you mean re-using? You mean the un-uved areas?
  • cholden
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    cholden polycounter lvl 13
    When you have faces on your mesh that can use the same texture as another piece you can take those UVS and overlay them to use the same texture space in more than once place. For example, the sleeve of a character's jacket might be a place to only paint one sleeve on the texture, and overlay the UVs of both sleeves on the model.

    Here, I've hilighted just a few obvious sections
    uveeeel.jpg

    If you do overlay UVs, you will run in to issues if you choose to bake any textures. The immediate fix is deleting those faces (or removing UV data) just for the bake.

    The two main benefits are MORE pixels to work with, and LESS things to texture (though texturing over a larger set of pixel, both of which make things look better)
  • Wilex
    Hey n88tr, mistakes are progress because you'll learn what not to do lol.

    For doing foliage that is one way you can do it. To make the material have transparency you'll need an alpha mask or an opacity mask it depends on what the shaders in the game engine support. In the engines i've used you can have a alpha mask in the alpha channel of the diffuse/color texture. Usually you can render and alpha mask from your 3d program. You'll probably also want to have a polygon facing in each direction so probably twice as many as you'd normally expect because it's normally easier on the game engine than rendering a polygon double sided.

    What cholden is saying is that you have symetrical UV shells on your layout that could be overlapped and scaled up for better resolution unless you plan on putting unique details in those areas. You'll notice when you begin to add detail to the texture where the uv shells aren't very large that the detail may come up pixelated/blocky or blurry. If you've given adequate texture space to a uv shell and still have blurry results you can try the Filter>Sharpen>Unsharp Mask to try to sharpen it up.

    (lol cholden detailed it before i posted damn me and my slow writing, sorry for the mistake bumper)

    I agree with bumper too you could clean up the model and get the same shapes and details with less subdivisions.

    Hope that helps with some of your questions. Best of luck.
  • Bumper
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    Bumper polycounter lvl 9
    Hey Wilex, that's more along the lines of what cholden was saying. Good explanation of the concept nonetheless.

    My point was a long the lines of the judicious use of polygons. The orange parts have unnecessary subdivisions. While there is some curvature, I don't think it's enough to justify the extra subdivision.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 12
    For instance, mirroring left to right, would save you an easy 25% of texture space or something (you would keep the top/bottom orange things, but you'd need only the left OR right side instead of both). You could also mirror the clip, and the sights for example.

    I also agree that you're using too many polygons on the orange elements.
  • n88tr
    I have a lot of faces on the flat ends of the orange pieces, I was trying to avoid the n-gon route. I don't honestly know if it matters or not, I see a lot of people using them and getting away with it but I was airing on the side of caution.

    With the overlay idea is that just taking two identical pieces and laying them on top of each other so they match up, is that how I'd do it? If it save me texture time I'll all for it.

    Made a little more "progress" on this thing
    ConRock_5.png

    I'm seeing how a cleaner mesh would've helped some....I didn't think I'd learn about my model by texuring it, that seemed counter-intuitive to me at the time but actually I'm seeing both sides of the coin.

    So many things to fix, I feel a migraine coming on. Time for a break.
  • Wilex
    Hey n88tr, I don't think many people do get away with Ngons honestly it's probably just floating geometry/elements and not actually attached at a subobject level (meaning welded together at verticies or extruded from a face). I know ngons usually cause the shit to hit the fan when you import into a game engine. I can't tell actually but you might have some Ngons on your model unless the iron sights on the back of your gun are floating elements.

    Yeah the ovelaying symetrical parts of your UV maps will save you time thats exactly how you do it, it's that simple. It will save you time and is common to do when UV mapping.

    I belive you could re-do the orange elements of the gun in a more effeicient manner with less polygons and still acheive the same silhouette but it's up to you really. This is all part of the learning process. Taking a break and letting it sink in is a good idea.
  • n88tr
    yeah i think i'm gonna start something new. a turret of sorts is rattling around in my head
  • n88tr
  • n88tr
    I did the Uv layover thing and it seems to be working so far. I'm watching one of racer445's texturing vids I got off his site, him doing the ammo crate. It's a bit over my head but I can pick up bits and pieces.
  • n88tr
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 15
    Ideally you'll want them directly on top of eachother, though depending on how much detail you have around the edges of your UV islands, you might have a bit of leeway. For something that simple though, it should be pretty quick and easy to simply snap all the UVs together.
  • n88tr
    I didn't know I could snap them together.

    Update: I overlayed everything that looked similar. Big mistake when it came time to texture. Redoing UVs atm.
  • ErichWK
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    ErichWK polycounter lvl 10
    n88tr wrote: »
    I didn't know I could snap them together.

    Update: I overlayed everything that looked similar. Big mistake when it came time to texture. Redoing UVs atm.

    Well...instead of manually overlaying them, just duplicate the sides/pieces that will be overlayed so they are perfectly matched on top of each other.
  • n88tr
    I don't know which pieces that are identical should be put on top of each other because when I tried it with like a box shape and all the faces were on top of each other, the one texture I put on 1 side made all 4 sides have that 1 texture so I don't know if I'll try overlaying again. I make so many mistakes.
  • Psyk0
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    Psyk0 polycounter lvl 14
    That's because you don't have to overlay everything that is similar. Let's go back to that box for a sec, look at it in 3/4 view, which faces are going to be seen together? Quite possibly the top and 2 side faces that are connecting to it.

    -If you UV map those as separate islands, then you can overlay the opposite faces on top.
    -If you know the bottom face will never be seen, you could scale the UV down and squeeze it into empty space or overlay it on top of any of the others because it will never be visible.
  • n88tr
    Only one side of my box in question would never be seen. When I look at diffuse flats of what people have done with their textures they look so clean and organized but also the texture doesn't look repetitive like mine might if I uv overlayed some stuff. It's still complicated to me and I feel like I'm doing a lot of things wrong still.

    Gonna re-uv the turret thing after the gym tonight.
  • n88tr
    Well my re-uv went ok I guess. Only thing was I couldn't individually move the uv verts, the whole model moved when I clicked on one vert. It's never done that before. So I re-did my re-uv thinking maybe a new scene would help. nope. So I said phooey on that and just made seperate uv maps for each of the 3 components of the turret

    turret gun
    shield outer border
    shield inner border

    then I started to texture the inner border and my texture wasn't looking right in maya when I applied it as a material so I was like "WTF?" for 30 mins. I found out that my uv had to be displayed in the uv texture editor properly [I'm running a layout with two stacked windows. one has perspective and the other the uv editor]. It wasn't because that wasn't the last one I took a uv snapshot of. A dumb mistake I guess but I have a "mistake limit" before I get so pissed I just want to scream [not that I'm that kind of person, I'm very quiet sort of guy].

    So there were a couple of mistakes and then I forgot about using layer masks while texturing in PS my turret so I decided to work on a texturing tut I found. Basic use of layers, painting, smudging etc. I couldn't follow that so now I'm just tired of being so angry.

    Tomorrow or the day after I'll pick this up. I don't know anymore.
  • rawrsie
    not much time for crits, but i'm not sure if anyone answered this - if you hold v in the uv editor you can snap uvs to each other just like with point snap in the 3d views
  • n88tr
    I'll try that out ok thanks!

    I thought about what I had done for my re-uv, the 3 map idea and realized that wouldn't work because I need the uv in the editor [split windows] for it to properly appear on the model as a material. If I'm working with 3 uvs, I have to constantly switch the right uv into the editor and in the end even if I get all the textures done, it won't look right because I can only have 1 uv map in the editor at one time so in the end I have to have all 3 maps combined into one so I'm gonna have to figure out why my uvs stretch in the editor when I try to just select verts.

    I'll give it another go and if it still happens I'll post a pic and see if that rings any bells.

    Thank you for you help guys. I've made good progress but at every turn I F up so I still have a long way to go.
  • cholden
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    cholden polycounter lvl 13
    Two pages in and almost two weeks to a texturing thread, but no texturing? Is this some kind of scam?
  • n88tr
    oh please.

    I'm having uv issues for the most part. It's a hurdle ok?
  • n88tr
    ok well here's my new uv stretch problem.

    ==

    Starting to work on a simple project for texturing but when I select part of my uvs [to better organize them and optimize blank space] the whole uv map seems to be selected. How can I make this not happen?

    uv-stretch.jpg
  • n88tr
    Regardless...

    I THINK i need to go to basics before I make some super fancy turret thing so I'll put that on hold like I always do.

    Working on a simple sci-fi pistol thing. Started to texture just now. gym time but i will return to work on it more. crits always welcome and encouraged

    SciFiPistol_text_1.png
    SciFiPistol_text_2.png
    SciFi_text2.jpg
    SciFi_text1.jpg
  • n88tr
    It's been a while. Did a little work just now. Struggling to find my style but I like the grip detail. I changed the brown base to a grey.

    Gonna work on the slide next, it needs some basic shapes.

    Texture shown at half size. I was having tons of trouble moving my uvs around, so they're stacked like that because I couldn't figure out how to move them around without stretching. It's a long story...

    TexturePistolWippy_1.png
    TexturePistolWippy_2.png
    TexturePistolWippy_3.jpeg
  • n88tr
    more progress this morning

    TexturePistolWippy_3.png
    TexturePistolWippy_4.png

    I'm taking this as a learning experience as well. My texture are horrible I know but I need to start somewhere and work my way up. I'm liking the process and the little changes I see here and there.
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    forgive the sloppy gimpness, at work/rush. Figured I'd post as you seem to have been frustrated but are still working so props to ya.

    you said low poly so I'll critique that some.

    your shapes are looking good but got extra polys.

    I'd get rid of all the polys where the red lines are, and the rest should look kindof like the blue tris. Basically cut anything that doesn't add to silohette.
    The rear sight probably only needs 4 polys, not 8 as the shape is minimal.

    try to get those small details in tex.

    Also, on your uv you have alot of small seperate polys. In game this adds extra verts to each seam. So join them (I don't know Maya, but in Max you select a vert and it'll show you the verts that are 'attached' highlighted in blue.)
    also easier to tex that way. Of course the sights will probably be seperate (they should be floated geometry).

    In Max you can add an 'optimize' modifier. That will break down the extra polys for you (it also screws up UV's). But when starting out on low poly it's a good tool to use and see how many polys you can drop and still retain tthe basic shape. once you get more profiecient you'll see it without the optimize step.
  • Arcanox
    Just to be clear, the optimize filter shouldn't be used for final work really. It's just sort of a quick preview of how much detail you can remove before the object turns into a bunch of skinny pieces of geometry.

    I'd highly recommend doing proper optimizations by removing edges, verticies and welding pieces together.
  • n88tr
    I don't know why you guys give max advice if I'm a maya user. I've seen a lot of max videos and it seems to be predominantly a "use this modifier to make this action." Maya is less of that.

    It's sort of late for me to change geometry now that I'm texturing it, but thanks.

    Also, removing the red lines at the end of the gun would create a huge n-gon, yes? Or did I miss something?
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Most modeling programs (Max and Maya included) have the same tools, just different names for them. I don't know the Maya names, but there's gotta be something similar...
    So I figured I'd mention it so you could look for those tools, that's all.

    Removing those edges (with optimize) would probably damage the uv but it would be an easy fix.

    However Maya should have an equivelant tool to Max's edit poly. In which you can select verts in the middle rows (red lines) and hit a remove button to remove them, uv intact, so it's not too late to remove if you wanted.

    I don't know how Maya deals with Ngons, or what you think the problem would be, but I see no reason you couldn't take those rows out and keep the back of it basically like it is.

    I was suggesting it for two reasons.
    1-easier to uv and unwrap with fewer polys. (even if next model, not this one)
    2-you said something about low poly and the point of low poly is to remove all uneeded tris. Removing those two rows could save around 36 tris alone which is pretty big considering how small an object it is.
  • n88tr
    Ok thanks I see now.

    Gonna just try to wrap up texturing this and move on to other projects that give me more geo to texture and thus a nice model in the end. This model is basically flat on either side with no chamfer or bevel.
  • n88tr
    Moving on to my first normal-mapped object, a sword. I've been in the dark researching the baking process and I'm confident that I can get it into the WIP stage before Christmas. I posted a new question thread here and then I'm off!
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1251384#post1251384
  • n88tr
    Sword? I meant battle axe.

    Some more details I need for high poly then I'll strip it down.
    BattleAxeSwirlyHandle_1.png
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 9
    Looks cool. Main issue I see with this axe is that all the geometric shapes give it a technological look. Maybe even art-deco. That may be fine depending on what you're going for (art-deco battle-axe sounds badass), but if you're doing fantasy, you may want to use more organic shapes.
  • n88tr
    Thanks for the advice. Yeah those indents in the head of the axe are a bit square-ish and they hurt the look of the axe. And the cables around the base of the head and the pommel. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with that so I was just winging it.
  • n88tr
    Finished high poly. I removed the cylinders around the handle and saved like 12k polies. I simplified it with some simple extrudes. Also cleaned up the little blocker thing below the higher up rings.

    I have a question:
    I bake the high on to the low, and then unwrap the low with the normal right? If so, does the uv map look different because it has the normal map applied to it or no? I would be hoping yes because that would help me texture more.

    Thanks for all your help guys.
  • Sukotto
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    Sukotto polycounter lvl 8
    First you gotta unwrap the low, then you bake the normals to it. You can't bake anything if you don't have the UVs unwrapped first
  • n88tr
    I did not know that. Thanks.
  • n88tr
    I'm hoping that this axe when it's done and the process of me learning how to make proper game objects will let people know I'm not just a cheater. I feel horrible about what I did and I have new energy to create unique objects, and paint scenes that I didn't think I could before.
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