Tutorial (request) for anatomically minded shoulder topology?
Hey all,
I'm just trying to put together a base mesh for character sculpting, and treating it as a bit of a learning process rather than a quick 'bang out a base mesh asap and refine it in ZBrush'.
I'm aiming to create a solid, nicely shaped base mesh most importantly with decent topology for sculpting.
I'm having MAJOR issues trying to create the shoulder area. I know there's a bit of a debate on which shoulder topology works best for animation (ie the thread on the Wiki) but I can't for the life of me seem to get the hang of the 'anatomically correct' shoulder topology.
I can pull out the 'bendy straw' method no probs, and it looks ok, but I'd really like to be able to grasp the other method as I feel not only might it benefit sculpting, but it can add a better look to low-poly characters should I ever want to do that.
I know to most of you character guys building a base with this topology is probably second-nature, and I know I'll get to that stage eventually but I just can't figure how to build the mesh with that topology.
It's hard to explain, but it's a technical issue, I can't seem to actually create polys in the right places if you see what I mean.
I've looked at a few tuts, specifically The Swordmaster, which kinda follows the method I'm talking about but has a fair few triangles because it won't be smoothed and I'm trying to keep this one quadded. Ben Mathis' Delilah series is useful, but when it gets to the crucial bit on the shoulder it's tricky to see what he's doing and i get lost.
I've got the ref images from the Wiki link right in front of me, I've also been pestering Dreamer on MSN all day about how bad I am (he's one helpful dude for sure, and very patient
)at this but I just cannot get it!
Does anyone have (or mind explaining) a tutorial or link to a tut that covers character creation with this specific topology method?
Many thanks!
I'm just trying to put together a base mesh for character sculpting, and treating it as a bit of a learning process rather than a quick 'bang out a base mesh asap and refine it in ZBrush'.
I'm aiming to create a solid, nicely shaped base mesh most importantly with decent topology for sculpting.
I'm having MAJOR issues trying to create the shoulder area. I know there's a bit of a debate on which shoulder topology works best for animation (ie the thread on the Wiki) but I can't for the life of me seem to get the hang of the 'anatomically correct' shoulder topology.
I can pull out the 'bendy straw' method no probs, and it looks ok, but I'd really like to be able to grasp the other method as I feel not only might it benefit sculpting, but it can add a better look to low-poly characters should I ever want to do that.
I know to most of you character guys building a base with this topology is probably second-nature, and I know I'll get to that stage eventually but I just can't figure how to build the mesh with that topology.
It's hard to explain, but it's a technical issue, I can't seem to actually create polys in the right places if you see what I mean.
I've looked at a few tuts, specifically The Swordmaster, which kinda follows the method I'm talking about but has a fair few triangles because it won't be smoothed and I'm trying to keep this one quadded. Ben Mathis' Delilah series is useful, but when it gets to the crucial bit on the shoulder it's tricky to see what he's doing and i get lost.
I've got the ref images from the Wiki link right in front of me, I've also been pestering Dreamer on MSN all day about how bad I am (he's one helpful dude for sure, and very patient
)at this but I just cannot get it!Does anyone have (or mind explaining) a tutorial or link to a tut that covers character creation with this specific topology method?
Many thanks!
Replies
If you're having trouble finding a shoulder that works good for sculpting, you could give a few of the meshes from Polycount's library a try. Or look at what is used in Super Average Man's, which I think might have a shoulder/pec area similar to what Scott Eaton used. There's other basemesh's you can examine as well.
http://nickzucc.blogspot.com/2008/08/human-male-athletic-final-model.html
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=74351&vendor=525085
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=54249
http://www.izbrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/base_1.jpg
Yeah that topology in the Scott Eaton model is exactly what I'm talking about. You're correct in saying I shouldn't worry too much about the topology pre-sculpt, but I'm doing it more just so I know I 'can' do it really.
I've got plenty of ref, but I'm just not sure how to do it technically. It's purely a technical issue, like a good way to physically create that edge flow... for example, extrude here/cut there/weld here etc etc, I know it's pretty shameful that someone who's been modeling for a couple years can't figure it out for himself but I've been pushing polys around all day and can't get that edge flow without cutting in triangles and I know there's a way to do it somehow!
Just trying to give you an alternate way to get to your goal.
Yeah I see your point. The two reasons I want to do it, really, are firstly, I think it looks a lot better on lower poly models where the topology and smoothing is selling the model on it's own without normal maps, and secondly, I just think it's one of those things I should have in my 'modeling armoury'.
I mean, I could just go with the bendy straw method and get to where I'm headed with this character model, but I'm sure I'll come up against this again in the future so I'd like to get it down now.
(go through the whole thresd..some of the info is a bit scattered)
http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907
and http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=482
http://wiki.polycount.com/BaseMesh
Didn't add the $12 renderosity one, didn't seem worth it.
Much appreciated responses, thanks again.