Rodent Warrior

Baaaah!

I think this is my first post on polycount, so hello .

I've been looking around quite a bit at the various threads and it's made me realize how dated some of my own work is and that I need to learn quite a bit - in-fact a lot

I recently discovered Joe Mad's work as a result of haikai's fantastic post and thought I'd have a go at one of his character designs from Dungeon Runners. I'm pretty much a noob with characters so any feedback would be cool. Thanks.

Here's what I have so far.

haikai

Hey, cool, I remember this concept .

Upper body looks like it should be a lot bigger (or his legs shorter). His huge neck is probably the most distinctive thing about him so you might want to play that up. In the side view, I would make his butt smaller.

I hope you'll be able to capture the stylized angles and curves of the drawing because that's what gives it so much life to begin with. At the moment the model is feeling like a more realistic/natural interpretation of the character. It's still early, but I think indicating some extremes early on will help you down the line.

If you're not against it, I would try to pose your model slightly so that it has a bit more attitude. I think having a very stiff pose can make it difficult to capture a unique presence. You can always transpose it back later.

Sculpt looks pretty promising so far.

Baaaah!

Hi haikai . Thanks for the feedback.

I'll have an experiment with the legs and upper body. I made the legs longer initially as I was worried that he'd look off balance if I made the middle section of the leg short, as suggested by the concept, but I haven't tried it on the actual model so it'll probably be worth playing around with those features a bit.

The model looks more humanistic as I've been trying to learn some anatomy as I go along, unfortunately this has made things deviate a bit from spirit of the concept. I'll try and introduce the more stylized feeling of the concept as I work on it more.

Baaaah!

Actually, one thing I have been wondering about, is it a bad idea to have the hands in that position if I want to create a game model from this sculpt? Would it be better to have them facing downwards in a more standard t-pose, or is that something I can alter later?

haikai

Baaaah! wrote: »

Actually, one thing I have been wondering about, is it a bad idea to have the hands in that position if I want to create a game model from this sculpt? Would it be better to have them facing downwards in a more standard t-pose, or is that something I can alter later?

I think most animators would prefer hands facing down as a starting pose, and it's much more common to have models set up that way. There aren't too many technical reasons why you couldn't have your model set up the way you have it now, but it's probably a good idea to follow common practices. Most places have a standard way of setting up models for consistency. Also, hands down looks a little more natural to me. You can always alter any of this stuff later, but the sooner the better, I think.

Baaaah!

haikai wrote: »

I think most animators would prefer hands facing down as a starting pose, and it's much more common to have models set up that way. There aren't too many technical reasons why you couldn't have your model set up the way you have it now, but it's probably a good idea to follow common practices. Most places have a standard way of setting up models for consistency. Also, hands down looks a little more natural to me. You can always alter any of this stuff later, but the sooner the better, I think.

Ok, I'll try and change it. Thanks

Baaaah!

Bit of an update. Added some more muscle definition. I've been trying to follow the concept more closely but there's still a way to go. I've posed him roughly following the concept to try and give him a bit more life.

I've shortened the middle section of the leg, but it might not be enough. The feet are starting to look too large as well. I've shrunk the butt and narrowed the waist some more and I think this has made the upper torso look larger and closer to the concept. I've also tried to beef up the neck some more to make it more prominent. Need to get the muscles looking more defined and wiry, as in the concept.

Cheers

Baaaah!

Another update. Took the neck down as I'd beefed it too much. Added some detail for the neck and face. Still screwing around with the legs. I think the arms are perhaps still too thick.

Baaaah!

Another update. Added another division and started adding some finer detail to him.

Applied some of the neck type details to the arms so that the neck didn't dominate so much. Still trying to get it closer to the concept

Alberto Rdrgz

You should look up references for you serratus anterior muscle. It's getting overwhelming.

Baaaah!

Alberto Rdrgz wrote: »

You should look up references for you serratus anterior muscle. It's getting overwhelming.

Hi Alberto, thanks for the feedback. Yeah you're right, I'll need to do them again. I might need to alter the upper torso as well, as I seem to have more space there than the concept. I don't think that's helping matters.

Alberto Rdrgz

your welcome, i would consider making the first and second row, into one and the third row for the ribs. its looking great tho, man.:)

haikai

Some detailed nitpicks:

• Something about the head makes it feel more like a sloth than a rodent, and the head in general seems to be lacking a clear structure underneath (where are the cheekbones, and how does the back of the skull fit into the neck, etc.).
• The crisscrossing, web-like details on the neck and arms are a little too much for me. I can't see the concept well enough to know if this was the original intention or not, but it feels too strong, and the pattern that emerges is too even and systematic to feel like a natural growth. I think this kind of character style might be better served to just "suggest" those details in the sculpt, and keeping the overall readability of the model should be a top priority.
• I agree with Alberto, and there are a few other spots on the anatomy that could use more careful study too. For instance, the "six pack" shouldn't be stretching all the way down to the crotch like that, and there are some landmarks on the body that I think aren't emphasized enough such as the illiac crest.
• The curvature of the legs makes them look like bent tubes. It's almost as if you're hesitant to push the shapes together where the bends are such as the back of the knees and the front of the ankles.
• Speaking of ankles, the feet are feeling somewhat bird-like in their thinness. The ankles are the joint immediately below the knee, which makes the joint in contact with the ground the ball of the foot. With that in mind, the foot (from the ankle to the ball) and the toes seem rather long and thin.

The model is coming along nicely otherwise though. Are you going to be adding the armor too? Maybe you can avoid unnecessary work on the body by getting that stuff placed early on.

Baaaah!

haikai wrote: »

Some detailed nitpicks:

• Something about the head makes it feel more like a sloth than a rodent, and the head in general seems to be lacking a clear structure underneath (where are the cheekbones, and how does the back of the skull fit into the neck, etc.).
• The crisscrossing, web-like details on the neck and arms are a little too much for me. I can't see the concept well enough to know if this was the original intention or not, but it feels too strong, and the pattern that emerges is too even and systematic to feel like a natural growth. I think this kind of character style might be better served to just "suggest" those details in the sculpt, and keeping the overall readability of the model should be a top priority.
• I agree with Alberto, and there are a few other spots on the anatomy that could use more careful study too. For instance, the "six pack" shouldn't be stretching all the way down to the crotch like that, and there are some landmarks on the body that I think aren't emphasized enough such as the illiac crest.
• The curvature of the legs makes them look like bent tubes. It's almost as if you're hesitant to push the shapes together where the bends are such as the back of the knees and the front of the ankles.
• Speaking of ankles, the feet are feeling somewhat bird-like in their thinness. The ankles are the joint immediately below the knee, which makes the joint in contact with the ground the ball of the foot. With that in mind, the foot (from the ankle to the ball) and the toes seem rather long and thin.

The model is coming along nicely otherwise though. Are you going to be adding the armor too? Maybe you can avoid unnecessary work on the body by getting that stuff placed early on.

Hey thanks for the feedback

I think with the head and neck I've got slightly ahead of myself, adding detail when I needed to concentrate more on the underlying structure. I think I'm going to backtrack a bit and remove the web-looking lines and try to build up from a more basic level. I've included a larger image of the head and I think you're right, I have over emphasized this feature of the character. Hopefully I can get him looking more rat-like as well, his face is perhaps a bit too kind at the minute.


I've just had to look up 'illiac' on wikipedia, lol so I guess that explains why other areas aren't quite correct. I know where it is now though which is one of the reasons for doing this exercise.

I don't think the unusual angles of the legs have helped really when I tried to put in certain muscles like the calfs and perhaps explain why certain parts don't look so integrated. I might try to straighten them out around the knee to see if that helps, and try to sort things out from there.

Yeah, the feet still don't look correct and they do look quite bird-like. I think I'll look for some ref for this on the net, as I've been trying to just make that part up to some degree and obviously it's not working.

Yep, I want to add the armor as soon as I can, just need to get the model more refined - might take a while this :P

I've just noticed actually that I've forgot to put the tail on him..... noes!

cholden

I always enjoyed the skaven in war (the most technologically advanced race).

Yes, the head shape is wrong. I'd reference a skaven without a the helmet for accuracy. I guess it's like if someone never saw a human and tried to model the head based on a a knight wearing a suit of armor. When he's fully armored it won't matter as much, but if it's not right now, it'll probably be a pain in the ass when you do start adding the armor.

Baaaah!

cholden wrote: »

I always enjoyed the skaven in war (the most technologically advanced race).

Yes, the head shape is wrong. I'd reference a skaven without a the helmet for accuracy. I guess it's like if someone never saw a human and tried to model the head based on a a knight wearing a suit of armor. When he's fully armored it won't matter as much, but if it's not right now, it'll probably be a pain in the ass when you do start adding the armor.

Good idea, I'll have a search for some skaven pics. It's probably worth getting some rat reference as well for the head. Cheers

Baaaah!

Another sort of update. Been trying to make some of the changes that have been suggested. I can't remember half the stuff I've done to this now, but I've taken a step back on the head and tried to start with a more logical structure. I've looked at actual rat skulls and roughly based it on that and got a bit of skaven ref to help later on hopefully. Undead rat at the moment :P

Been messing around with the legs and feet quite a bit as well. Hopefully the feet look less bird-like and more ratty now - more ref helped there.

Cheers.