The Thing

tanka

I haven't done much 3d work since starting my new job, so I thought I'd try my hand at doing some character work. So I'm modelling The Thing, It's my first time using zspheres, and my first real work in zbrush, so any crits would be nice.

Here's what I've got so far:




It's not much, but I like to think he's shaping up ok. I'm really going to need to define those muscles if I want him to look good, which will be a fairly new experience for me.

Thoughts?

tanka

Update: No news is good news, I guess.

I've been working on the head for a fair chunk of the day.





I'm going to hold off adding the stone until I've finished the whole character, although I'm beginning to think I should break him up into seperate objects so the polycount becomes a bit more manageable.

tanka

Update: Although I'm beginning to think nobody cares.. :P



I've split the mesh into seperate peices, detailed the head, and I'm about to start sculpting the body.

Thoughts? Crits? Anything? :S :P

danshewan

Okay, after my initial disappointment that this wasn't the Thing from the John Carpenter film, I'm wondering what design this will be based on?

To be honest, I found the movie adaptation version quite bland - depending on which comic artist drew him, The Thing has a lot of potential to be very stylized, especially with the facial features. I think, tempting as it may be, you've dived into the surface detailing too soon - if I were you, I'd spend more time on defining those facial features (and the rest of the form) before starting on the surface cracks.

If you aren't working from any one specific reference, think about how a person made of rock would be defined - right now, it's a fair start and it's pretty recognizably The Thing, but some of the facial features are far too smooth to read as rock well.

Again, if it were my project, I'd go for a very stylized look as opposed to 'realism', as it would allow for more angular features and muscle definition. Since he doesn't have much in the way of a costume, it's that musculature definition that has to provide a lot on the way of silhouette and facial expression - not to mention that using hard, well-defined edges could also make him appear more menacing and pissed off.

I'm presuming this is intended as a high-res sculpt, as opposed to an optimized in-game asset?

3D-209

Yeah, I agree and would step back a few levels. You've made a fairly smooth version of his head and started adding surface cracks, but for a character like this that's just not the right approach. He's stone, so it'd be good to think about the make-up of his face as a bunch of planes that you can shape into stones. Start bigger, then go small. Right now you're thinking too much about an end result of "he should be this general shape, and he should have cracks to show he's made of stone!" whereas your thought process should be more about how the stones (planes) make up the shape of his head and face.

tanka

@danshewan: Sorry to dissappoint :P

My version of the thing is going to be based off of the comics, definitely not the film. More specifically, he will be mostly based off the Ultimate Fantastic 4 comics, and most of my reference is coming from that and from some Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 concept art.

As for your suggestion of a stylized version of The Thing, I have considered it, however for a while I have being wanting to sculpt something that closer resembles human anatomy; which is a funny thing to say when you're modelling a man made of rock, but I feel like this was a good time to do so.

Oh, and I plan on baking this high poly mesh down to a optimized game mesh. Providing all goes to plan.


@3D-209: You and dan are right, it doesn't look right at all. I think tonight I'll go back a few subdivisions and sharpen some of the smooth edges, then really refine the rocks that make up his head. Hopefully that will make him look alot more threatening, and less sad.

I'll see what I can come up with.

tanka

Update:


He's definitely looking alot better now. I'm thinking I should maybe try and flatten some of the rocky faces, and maybe add some high frequency rocky detail on him. My only concern is that he's becoming a bit hard to read with the way I've sculpted the rock.

Will Faucher

I would still step back a few levels, you have the microdetail/rocky wear to it, without having the base shape made. Slow down. Work on the lips, get those eyelids more clearly defined. Right now his face is very bloblike, no distinguishing features. Step back, work on the anatomy and structure of the face, then move on to finer and finer detail. Start with the biggest first, then move on.

zxcman

i agree with Prophecies, cos you need to mork more with general masses and refine his face features.

Calabi

As the others said you should try defining some of the planes of his face.

Like link.




It really does help.

Taylor Hood

Yeah, give it more structure before all those details, man.

Sandro

Face planes don't just help - they are the key. Rest is just visual noise, polish and refinery. Grab clay brush and don't be afraid to cut deep in that mesh and be messy.

What I've found out is that it's lot easier and faster to feel free and exaggerate masses/forms first and tweak later then sculpt 'the careful' way right from the beginning. Especially when you're learning.

Disco Stu

I like to call it "Sculpting with cochones"

tanka

It sounds like the general consensus is that I should be going back a few steps; which sounds good, it's all a part of the learning process. I guess I thought the structure of his face came second to the rock details. It sucks I've made the biggest noob zbrush mistake. (I knew I should of started with the body)

I'm interested to hear more about these face planes, this is honestly the first I've heard of them. It sounds like it has to do with the planning and breaking up of the face into seperate planes?

Will Faucher

Hey man, making mistakes is part of human nature! It's the only way to get better! The way I look at it is: Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. But you never lose. What you did here is *not* wasted. You learned a valuable lesson in digital sculpting. We've all been there. Just keep practicing and never give up!

danshewan

tanka wrote: »

I'm interested to hear more about these face planes, this is honestly the first I've heard of them. It sounds like it has to do with the planning and breaking up of the face into seperate planes?

Think of a face not as a single smooth, curved surface, but as a series of flat planes. This is one of Loomis' diagrams illustrating this principle.





This idea not only makes it easier to visualize and recreate the face accurately, but also makes it easier to draw the face from different angles while retaining the proportions.

To be honest, I probably would have made a simple base mesh in another package at first, then brought it into ZBrush for sculpting, but I hear good things about Zbrush's hard surface and planar sculpting tools in the newest release - haven't had any reason to use them myself yet, though.

Calabi

Dont sweat it tanka, we're all hear to learn.

Here's another that may help you.

http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/feeling-the-form

The medusa tutorials go through some of the new planar brush's to make a rough starting Asaho head.

http://www.3dworldmag.com/page/3dworld?entry=tutorial_files_for_3d_world9

Basically the way I see it, it boils down to if you do and learn those planes above, you can turn that into any sort of head, male, female, monster. You just move bits around smooth them, and it will look right or at least good(as long as you dont deviate to far from the planes).

You'd do better to study the bone and muscle structure, but the planes are quicker and almost as good.

The face is one of the most complex things to sculpt using those planes it speeds up and help you understand it.

I'm learning it myself. I'm not recreating that Asaho head perfectly, I just use the flatten and clay brush to rough out parts similar to it, to start with, then I start on the actual face that I want.

tanka

Cheers guys, I'll have a look over all this stuff and come back, hopefully with a better looking head.

tanka

I've had a bit of a break from him, but I've gone back and redone the head. I went back a few subdivisions, defined the facial structure alot more, and also went in and refined the shape using the flatten and pinch brushes, to make him look less blobby. Before I go in and add the stone, I want to make sure he looks right first.



Thoughts?

StefanH

have more courage.. break up those "rubber bands" on the mouth, cheek bones and forehead. Use them planes and also think about the underlying structure of bones and muscle (even if this dude is made out of stone. It helps to ground him and make him believable). Get the movie and screengrab different views of the guy for reference. You dont have to follow 100% but it will help you.

tanka

mmm, maybe I shouldn't be modelling a guy made out of stone.. I think it's throwing me off. :P

I'm trying to avoid looking at the movie version of the thing, because I don't like the way he looks in it. So most of my reference is coming from the comics, and the way the thing is drawn in them doesn't really translate too well to 3d.. I guess I'm going to have to take a bit of an artistic license here. I'll be back.. :P

At least I got rid of the blobbiness.

dfacto

If you're having trouble with the face then you should go for an easier version of Grimm, like this one:


The planes are much easier; you should have no trouble with it.

Calabi

It doesnt look that bad for a cartoony head. Some of the areas could be refined a bit perhaps, it depends on what your going for.

He doesnt appear to have a chin, and the transition from that forhead thing and the outside of the eye doesnt look quite right. It might look better if it was a ninety degree overhang.

zenarion

He has too much upper lip, too little lower jaw. That makes him look rather monkey-like, and not too much The Thing-like.

tanka

I'm back again..

I redid the head again, It has become quite a learning experience. I took dfacto's advice and had a shot at making it more like the image he posted. I'm pretty happy with the result this time. His face is alot more defined, and he has alot more character. I'm sure there are still plenty of things wrong with him though.

leslievdb

the latest updates shows much progress
but try to go even more angular with the shapes by using the flatten brush

tanka

I refined the head a bit more, and added the stone.. I think I've got what I want now. I'm now starting his torso, with his arms and legs to follow.

tanka

Some more progress, I've done a fair bit today:

Taylor Hood

Not sure if the anatomy is right but I do like the beefy arms and fingers. Also, I lik how you did the suit. =]

System

Calabi wrote: »

Dont sweat it tanka, we're all hear to learn.

lol, that sounds rather patronising!

nice update tanka
ps: I think his head is a bit too small

tanka

Thanks guys, I've been told that I might have problems deforming the arms if I rig this guy. I might try and use the transpose tool to put him into a T-Pose, althoughi probably should of done that to begin with.

I can't wait to get home from work and get back into this.

tanka

More updates: He's close to done now, I just need to stonify his legs. I've made a few fixes to a few areas, including putting him into more of a T-Pose.

GCMP mentioned that his head was looking a bit small.. I think once you see the legs done, I think it's more a case of his upper body and arms just being really big, and I think it suits the character.

butt_sahib

Did you try incorporating what ravenslayer mentioned?

Looking nice as is...
you should go in with the inflat brush to bulge/fill out those stoney masses and then use the flat/slash brush to really give it some sharpness and an angular outlook

tanka

Yeah I did refine his face a bit more after seeing Ravenslayer's post. Maybe not to the extent seen in his paintover, as I didn't want his face looking too angular.

I'll have a look into your suggestions aswell, but I don't know if I really want him with bulgey stone, I'm actually liking the smoothness, with the rocky pattern. I think he looks alot more like he does in the comics.

I've been busy the last few days, but hopefully I can dive back into this soon.